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The_Phenx
09-20-2010, 04:14 PM
So just off the cuff here.

Can we put sleight of hand in the game?

Make it a skill you can put points into, give it enhancements, items etc.

Let me sneak up to monsters in quest steal things. Have to be in sneak mode, and if you fail your check, monster aggro's. Let me sneak up to boss monsters in game, and steal keys, or other necessary components to complete the quest.

Skill check to succeed goes up with casual normal hard elite etc. As do the percentage chances to receive better rewards. Some rough reward tables below.

NPC's
10% Collectibles
5% Gold
1% Weapons
1% Items

Casual
5% Collectibles
3% Gold

Normal
10% Collectibles
5% Gold
1% Items

Hard
15% Collectibles
10% Gold
3% Items

Elite
20% Collectibles
15% Gold
5% Items

Epic
30% Collectibles
20% Gold
7% Items
.05% Epic Scrolls


This used to be one of my favorite things to do in PnP D&D. Would make for great solo fun for rogues & possibly rangers.

Not only would this give hide and move silently skills a great boon, but it would validate rogues and add a fun new dimension to solving quests.

Dunfalach
09-20-2010, 04:21 PM
I'm not sure I like the rare items being available for that. It could be unbalancing in that respect. But as a generality, if it weren't usable against other PCs and didn't drop anything that's usually requires quest completions to get, it's an interesting idea.

Spoonwelder
09-20-2010, 04:24 PM
Fun idea - but not in any way for use against party members. (I know you weren't suggesting that...)

Also please only spend development time on it after pretty much every other bug and/or item already slated for correction is completed. So yeah - looooow priority

Uska
09-20-2010, 04:26 PM
I like part of it except for the following items

1 rares.

2. armor I mean really they arent going to notice you stealing armor?

3. weapons other then daggers see above.

Memnir
09-20-2010, 04:26 PM
Usable against NPC-only, and I like it. :)
It'd be a damn sight more handy then Trap Making has turned out to be, too.

The_Phenx
09-20-2010, 04:28 PM
I'm not sure I like the rare items being available for that.

Well at .25% chance on elite... thats a 1:400 chance of something rare, on Epic a 1:200

Example. Firestorm greaves. You go up to the commander and pick his pocket you have a 1:400 chance of getting the greaves, You can only pick each mobs pocket once per instance. You have a higher chance of getting them from the chest after killing him anyway. But it's still a chance. Let the rogue go in first.. and try and steal them before the big fight.

That make it possible enough to be interesting but rare enough to be annoying to farm for it.

Even if the rare drop chance was removed I would still love to see it implemented.

And of course NEVER against player characters.

Oolung
09-20-2010, 04:29 PM
I like part of it except for the following items

3. weapons other then daggers see above.

Wait, Where'd my Falcion go??? Coulda sworn I had it a second ago... :D

AyumiAmakusa
09-20-2010, 04:29 PM
I would prefer this to be a skill.

Like how you make Intimidate/Bluff/Diplomacy checks on NPCs. Just add a Pickpocket check. But as for the loot, you'll probably end up getting vendor trash (The way they'll make it).

The_Phenx
09-20-2010, 04:34 PM
I like part of it except for the following items

1 rares.

2. armor I mean really they arent going to notice you stealing armor?

3. weapons other then daggers see above.


Well maybe they took their boots off while they were relaxing :)....

Point taken... main post mod'd

And a good rogue can lift just about anything

The_Phenx
09-20-2010, 04:38 PM
I would prefer this to be a skill.

Like how you make Intimidate/Bluff/Diplomacy checks on NPCs. Just add a Pickpocket check. But as for the loot, you'll probably end up getting vendor trash (The way they'll make it).

I am thinking it would be great for new players as a way to get items, and a fun diversion for old time players.

Cauthey
09-20-2010, 04:49 PM
I like it! They could work something into it where if you pick anyone's pocket in front of other NPC guards, they give you the beat down. For example...you get the idea to try and pick Montague Goudreau's pocket. If you are caught, not only would you be penalized with lost Coin Lord favor, but the guards that are nearby would pummel you into a trip to your Spirit Binder, via Dolurrh. :)

But if you succeeded...you know that Goudreau carries some coin around. :)

Hafeal
09-20-2010, 05:07 PM
Neither the first nor last time people will advocate for the pick pocket skill.

Yes, I like this idea and I have supported it before. As chests encompass the idea of having looted bodies, pick-pocket could encompass the idea of not just "picking the pocket" but of stealing "within the near vicinity" (i.e., thus explaining larger items like boots or armor).

I have always wanted at least some optionals in quests where you could steal the "plans" or the "key" and avoid a battle with some bonus xp. It doesn't just have to be a way to "loot."

:)

CrescentCalling_5
09-20-2010, 06:02 PM
I thought I post in here earlier but apparently not :/

Well I like the general concept but I disagree with some ideas. First off though, I want this to be a Rogue/bard class-skill, not an ability :P adds more flavor

1. The Failed Attempt in the Town/City Should be more interesting

Honestly, if I pickpocket someone in a town and all I do is lose favor, I don't feel like a criminal...and honestly in a roleplaying game feeling like the criminal is half the reason we do it, right? Instead of this I'd roll a 1d4 die for a variety of possible results:

Roll: Result:
1- Critical failure, the guards notice you and toss you in jail for one minute
2- The Guard notices you and attacks, you drag yourself to the nearest tavern with 1 hp/level left
3- The Victim notices you, you cannot attempt on that victim again for 1 hour
4- Another theif notices you, you lose 1d10 gold pieces as he picks your pockets

2. You didn't give a proper check to see if the pickpocket works

I think a pickpocket check should be something like this:

Player Check =
Pickpocket Skill + 1d20

vs.

Target Check =
Spot Skill + 1d20 (+1 synergy for every 2 ranks in pickpocket)

a natural 20 on either check does not guarentee a success for either side. However, a success + a natural 20 on the pickpocket's check grants a Critical Success for better rewards.


3. The Rewards are a little off

Hey if I was a monster I'd keep all the valuables I had close to my eyes, and I doubt any rogue is good enough to steal the necklace off a bugbear or the armor off a giant, w/o being noticed god forbid.

How about this sort of system for rewards:

On a successful Pickpocket roll 1d10 +1 per NPC loot level (in cities) or 1d10 + 1d4/difficulty level (in dungeons). You retrieve that many gold pieces and cannot steal from that target again for 1 hour.

On a Critical Success (see 2) you gain an additional 1d4 gold pieces and are able to steal a random item from that monster's loot list (large list btw :P includes collectibles for that race). There is a 1% chance that one of the items in that set is a rare, and a 1 out of (total number of items) chance that you'll retrieve that rare.

No Armor or non-light weapons can be stolen from enemies or NPCS.

Ashiel_Dragmire
09-20-2010, 06:14 PM
It'd be a pretty fun skill to have, and for some quests, you could make it a way to complete optionals (ex. steal a key from a guard without killing him in order to get some extra XP). Only qualm I have is the name, couldn't we just call it Sleight of Hand, since that was the closest PnP equivalent?

Tuney
09-20-2010, 06:41 PM
Only thing I have to say is... Bards better be able to get this skill!

ghettoGenius
09-20-2010, 06:48 PM
This would add an interesting dynamic to stealth play and the like being that there are various mini bosses which drop keys and other quest items needed to complete. Would be cool to offer another method of obtaining them.

The_Phenx
09-20-2010, 07:51 PM
I thought I post in here earlier but apparently not :/

Well I like the general concept but I disagree with some ideas. First off though, I want this to be a Rogue/bard class-skill, not an ability :P adds more flavor

1. The Failed Attempt in the Town/City Should be more interesting

Honestly, if I pickpocket someone in a town and all I do is lose favor, I don't feel like a criminal...and honestly in a roleplaying game feeling like the criminal is half the reason we do it, right? Instead of this I'd roll a 1d4 die for a variety of possible results:

Roll: Result:
1- Critical failure, the guards notice you and toss you in jail for one minute
2- The Guard notices you and attacks, you drag yourself to the nearest tavern with 1 hp/level left
3- The Victim notices you, you cannot attempt on that victim again for 1 hour
4- Another theif notices you, you lose 1d10 gold pieces as he picks your pockets

2. You didn't give a proper check to see if the pickpocket works

I think a pickpocket check should be something like this:

Player Check =
Pickpocket Skill + 1d20

vs.

Target Check =
Spot Skill + 1d20 (+1 synergy for every 2 ranks in pickpocket)

a natural 20 on either check does not guarentee a success for either side. However, a success + a natural 20 on the pickpocket's check grants a Critical Success for better rewards.


3. The Rewards are a little off

Hey if I was a monster I'd keep all the valuables I had close to my eyes, and I doubt any rogue is good enough to steal the necklace off a bugbear or the armor off a giant, w/o being noticed god forbid.

How about this sort of system for rewards:

On a successful Pickpocket roll 1d10 +1 per NPC loot level (in cities) or 1d10 + 1d4/difficulty level (in dungeons). You retrieve that many gold pieces and cannot steal from that target again for 1 hour.

On a Critical Success (see 2) you gain an additional 1d4 gold pieces and are able to steal a random item from that monster's loot list (large list btw :P includes collectibles for that race). There is a 1% chance that one of the items in that set is a rare, and a 1 out of (total number of items) chance that you'll retrieve that rare.

No Armor or non-light weapons can be stolen from enemies or NPCS.

Some good ideas all around.

Definately a rolled skill check.

CrescentCalling_5
09-20-2010, 08:07 PM
Some good ideas all around.

Definately a rolled skill check.

not really ideas, just a mix of insanity and inspiration :P

yea, if you worked it like a stationary skill check it would either always succeed or fail, which is boring in a roleplaying setting....which is a lot of what Pickpocketting is :P

The_Phenx
09-20-2010, 09:07 PM
AYe I never meant it to be not rolled on... othewise... meh

dragonmane
09-21-2010, 04:08 PM
They have it in Star Wars Galaxis and its pretty fun, but really useless. Only thing it was really good for was making a high level NPC ****ed off and attack you. It had its moments but overall it lost its fun when all you got was junk. I think it was spy that could pick pocket, but I cant remember now, been a while. Putting the chance of getting something usefull would make it alot better, but I still think after pick pocketing 100 NPC's it would be more a grind then fun.

Mr_Ed7
09-21-2010, 04:11 PM
I like this for aquiring keys from NPCs or items needed to complete quests.

donfilibuster
09-21-2010, 04:22 PM
In case this hasn't been mentioned above, the pick pockets in d&d 3e belongs to the 'sleight of hand' skill.
See http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/sleightOfHand.htm

No new rules needed, the same monsters that already can spot you while sneaking can catch you while stealing.
You can only lift small objects which would be the same sort of things and coinage you find in barrels and crates.

You can't still target a player for an offensive action just like it is now.
Except the brawl area and duels, these might be more fun if you can come out with a few of someone's coppers.

flynnjsw
09-21-2010, 04:26 PM
It'd be a pretty fun skill to have, and for some quests, you could make it a way to complete optionals (ex. steal a key from a guard without killing him in order to get some extra XP). Only qualm I have is the name, couldn't we just call it Sleight of Hand, since that was the closest PnP equivalent?

The highlighted portion would depend on which version you were talking about, but sleight of hand is what is used in 3.5 rules.

Flasharte
09-21-2010, 04:32 PM
any xp bonus for this in a quest? similar to the trap disabling tiers, except that there are pockets in nearly all the quests instead of the 21.6% of the quests that have traps. if that were the case then it would be cool even if they implement it in standard meh fashion allowing you to pickpocket 4 copper pieces! from your target

what about the door swining the other way? NPC lightfoots lifting stuff from your pocket. the /ragequits would amuse me, but then the emotions of you mortals are always kinda cute

Aesop
09-21-2010, 04:36 PM
I'm all for a Sleight of Hand/Pick Pocket type ability being in place in the game.

I'd make it have categories like


Key Items
Pots/Wands/Scrolls
Monetary Units/Gems
Collectibles/Dragon Shards


You could have it as a skill

or

make it a Level check with a bonus for more Rogue levels (d20+Character level +1/4 Rogue Level vs Target HD)


Aesop

cardmj1
09-21-2010, 04:44 PM
I love this idea for NPC only. But to make it funnier, I would expect to see a jail in case a nimble fingered rogue got caught in a public instance. I can see the guild chat now....

rogue: Ummm, hey guild leader, are you busy?
guild leader: just doing some inventory maintenance. whatcha need?
rogue: some bail money :D
guild leader: ??????
rogue: well see, I had a bard bet me that I couldn't get some extra coin off of the bar wench in the Wayward Lobster.
guild leader: you didn't!?!
rogue: ummm, obviously not. Can you bail me out?
guild leader: ummmm
rogue: guild leader?
rogue: guild leader?
rogue: guild leader?

donfilibuster
09-21-2010, 06:14 PM
I love this idea for NPC only. But to make it funnier, I would expect to see a jail in case a nimble fingered rogue got caught in a public instance. I can see the guild chat now....


Reminds me of one of those old text MUD games, the one based on discworld, where the guild of thieves is legal and thus you need a licence to steal.
Only i tought the thing about not stealing was for pick pockets and shoplifting (you could), didn't tought the guards were actually coded to spot you doing tresspassing.

So i was wandering the housings and found a locked wardrobe, so i picked the lock and found some loot as expected.
The room however, had a trigger, so if you failed your roll some npc would find you and shout for help.
At that point that was still expected, what wasn't expected is for the guard to arrive asap (obviously part of the trigger).

This is where cardmj1 idea to have u put in jail resembles that game.
The guard proceeded to knock my toon out with the baton (he even spoke the 'you are under arrest' discourse).
Once unconcious the guard actually dragged you by the feet all the way through the street to the jail building.
And mind you there were people looking, think of some deneith guard dragging you across the market!
Naturally the discworld is meant to be a funny game but still.

cardmj1
09-21-2010, 10:48 PM
Reminds me of one of those old text MUD games, the one based on discworld, where the guild of thieves is legal and thus you need a licence to steal.
Only i tought the thing about not stealing was for pick pockets and shoplifting (you could), didn't tought the guards were actually coded to spot you doing tresspassing.

So i was wandering the housings and found a locked wardrobe, so i picked the lock and found some loot as expected.
The room however, had a trigger, so if you failed your roll some npc would find you and shout for help.
At that point that was still expected, what wasn't expected is for the guard to arrive asap (obviously part of the trigger).

This is where cardmj1 idea to have u put in jail resembles that game.
The guard proceeded to knock my toon out with the baton (he even spoke the 'you are under arrest' discourse).
Once unconcious the guard actually dragged you by the feet all the way through the street to the jail building.
And mind you there were people looking, think of some deneith guard dragging you across the market!
Naturally the discworld is meant to be a funny game but still.

Whether or not that they drag you through the streets, which I think would be a nightmare to code, at least a jail where we could all go to see our guild idiot (I mean) rogue pick pocket to laugh and mock before paying his/her bail.

Cauthey
09-22-2010, 08:40 AM
In case this hasn't been mentioned above, the pick pockets in d&d 3e belongs to the 'sleight of hand' skill.
See http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/sleightOfHand.htm

No new rules needed, the same monsters that already can spot you while sneaking can catch you while stealing.
You can only lift small objects which would be the same sort of things and coinage you find in barrels and crates.

You can't still target a player for an offensive action just like it is now.
Except the brawl area and duels, these might be more fun if you can come out with a few of someone's coppers.

What if you COULD target other players in sketchy areas of town? Perhaps Jester's Haunt in the Marketplace. Or right next door in Soulgate? Maybe the "mugging area" can change periodically from month to month. Almost like a kind of roaming event content. Anyone with enough rogue levels will be notified upon entering the mugging area that they can target other PCs. If caught, maybe it could become a street brawl? Probably easier if it lands them in jail or in the stocks...

Which brings me to another idea - set up some stocks down at the harbor where all of the pick pocket toons that are caught have to remain for 2-5 minutes, or whatever. Heck...you could even add a rotten vegetable vendor to sell tomatoes and stuff to throw at the people in the stocks. Target practice, plus...you get to dirty up the pick pocket toon's gear for x amount of time! :)

Folonius
09-22-2010, 08:56 AM
2. armor I mean really they arent going to notice you stealing armor?

3. weapons other then daggers see above.

I want to steal their pants! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTccvj0gc58)

amethystdragon
09-22-2010, 09:01 AM
It sounds like an interesting idea, when used against NPC only.

I was thinking on a failed roll, instead of landing in jail you land in the stocks. Where all other players in the area can see you, and purchase rotten veggies to throw at you.

Marcus-Hawkeye
09-22-2010, 09:09 AM
A decent idea. However, I would prefer somehow making it so you had to be level 6 or higher to get the ability... I don't feel that the splash 2 Rogue should get the ability to do this. Or at least make it damn near impossible for level 2 rogue to actually complete an attempt.

Cauthey
09-22-2010, 09:22 AM
A decent idea. However, I would prefer somehow making it so you had to be level 6 or higher to get the ability... I don't feel that the splash 2 Rogue should get the ability to do this. Or at least make it damn near impossible for level 2 rogue to actually complete an attempt.

Yeah. That's why I mentioned anyone with enough rogue levels...not just a single level of rogue. Everyone splashes rogue. Do people usually splash more that 2? Level 3 or 4 seems like it would be right to open this ability.

Or, as you said, open it to any rogue. But just make it so that unless you have three levels of rogue, you auto-fail. Might be a fun way to land some rogue splashers that don't know any better in the stocks. :)

Devs, can we haz rogue mugging against player characters and teh stocks to throw tomatoes? :D

The_Phenx
09-22-2010, 10:18 AM
I want to steal their pants! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTccvj0gc58)

HAHAH... love that show.

The_Phenx
10-01-2010, 04:28 PM
It puts the lotion in the basket :)

falcon2030
10-01-2010, 04:38 PM
I love this idea

It would addd more flavor to a game that has gotten too comfortable in teh Hack and Slash rutt. It would be refreshing to see some variety to solviong quests not just "Can I Hit Big With Big Weap"

It is getting a bit mundane please add flavor :D

The_Phenx
10-04-2010, 09:26 AM
Read by a Dev?

MUAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA

barabel
10-04-2010, 09:58 AM
It sounds like an interesting idea, when used against NPC only.

I was thinking on a failed roll, instead of landing in jail you land in the stocks. Where all other players in the area can see you, and purchase rotten veggies to throw at you.

+1 I think this would be a great idea. Adds flavor to the game. Something like 5 min in the penalty box.

Jay203
10-04-2010, 11:21 AM
I thought I post in here earlier but apparently not :/

Well I like the general concept but I disagree with some ideas. First off though, I want this to be a Rogue/bard class-skill, not an ability :P adds more flavor

1. The Failed Attempt in the Town/City Should be more interesting

Honestly, if I pickpocket someone in a town and all I do is lose favor, I don't feel like a criminal...and honestly in a roleplaying game feeling like the criminal is half the reason we do it, right? Instead of this I'd roll a 1d4 die for a variety of possible results:

Roll: Result:
1- Critical failure, the guards notice you and toss you in jail for one minute
2- The Guard notices you and attacks, you drag yourself to the nearest tavern with 1 hp/level left
3- The Victim notices you, you cannot attempt on that victim again for 1 hour
4- Another theif notices you, you lose 1d10 gold pieces as he picks your pockets

2. You didn't give a proper check to see if the pickpocket works

I think a pickpocket check should be something like this:

Player Check =
Pickpocket Skill + 1d20

vs.

Target Check =
Spot Skill + 1d20 (+1 synergy for every 2 ranks in pickpocket)

a natural 20 on either check does not guarentee a success for either side. However, a success + a natural 20 on the pickpocket's check grants a Critical Success for better rewards.


3. The Rewards are a little off

Hey if I was a monster I'd keep all the valuables I had close to my eyes, and I doubt any rogue is good enough to steal the necklace off a bugbear or the armor off a giant, w/o being noticed god forbid.

How about this sort of system for rewards:

On a successful Pickpocket roll 1d10 +1 per NPC loot level (in cities) or 1d10 + 1d4/difficulty level (in dungeons). You retrieve that many gold pieces and cannot steal from that target again for 1 hour.

On a Critical Success (see 2) you gain an additional 1d4 gold pieces and are able to steal a random item from that monster's loot list (large list btw :P includes collectibles for that race). There is a 1% chance that one of the items in that set is a rare, and a 1 out of (total number of items) chance that you'll retrieve that rare.

No Armor or non-light weapons can be stolen from enemies or NPCS.

so... auto critical success if the target is blind? =)

The_Phenx
10-04-2010, 11:58 AM
so... auto critical success if the target is blind? =)

Unless you "touch" his pocket a little too hard...lol

cardmj1
10-04-2010, 12:08 PM
Please devs, take a look at this. I know Madfloyd would probably get a few ideas for future updates.

Hendrik
10-04-2010, 12:18 PM
Usable against NPC-only, and I like it. :)
It'd be a damn sight more handy then Trap Making has turned out to be, too.


Idea has some merit to it and worth a +1 to the OP for sure!

I still hold out that Trapmaking will get another pass in the future. Another idea that has merit but just needs to be fleshed out more.

Veriden
10-04-2010, 02:59 PM
9 rogue raids any one? lol

Aesop
10-04-2010, 03:35 PM
9 rogue raids any one? lol

why not 12 rogues?

Aesop

Kiranselie
10-04-2010, 03:43 PM
why not 12 rogues?

Aesop

Been Done, :D

Hendrik
10-04-2010, 03:45 PM
why not 12 rogues?

Aesop

/poke

'Cause everyone knows you can't complete any Quest without a CLR, BRB, and Arcane.

:p

Aesop
10-04-2010, 03:47 PM
been Done, :d

heh
:D

The_Phenx
10-04-2010, 04:38 PM
Highest DPS class in the game.

The_Phenx
10-27-2010, 11:34 AM
Just keepin it up there for attention

EricZanzibar
10-27-2010, 01:47 PM
What if you COULD target other players in sketchy areas of town? Perhaps Jester's Haunt in the Marketplace. Or right next door in Soulgate? Maybe the "mugging area" can change periodically from month to month. Almost like a kind of roaming event content. Anyone with enough rogue levels will be notified upon entering the mugging area that they can target other PCs. If caught, maybe it could become a street brawl? Probably easier if it lands them in jail or in the stocks...

Which brings me to another idea - set up some stocks down at the harbor where all of the pick pocket toons that are caught have to remain for 2-5 minutes, or whatever. Heck...you could even add a rotten vegetable vendor to sell tomatoes and stuff to throw at the people in the stocks. Target practice, plus...you get to dirty up the pick pocket toon's gear for x amount of time! :)

i like the concept... i particularly like THIS idea. ha ha ha

Falco_Easts
10-27-2010, 10:31 PM
What if you COULD target other players in sketchy areas of town? Perhaps Jester's Haunt in the Marketplace. Or right next door in Soulgate? Maybe the "mugging area" can change periodically from month to month. Almost like a kind of roaming event content. Anyone with enough rogue levels will be notified upon entering the mugging area that they can target other PCs. If caught, maybe it could become a street brawl? Probably easier if it lands them in jail or in the stocks...

Which brings me to another idea - set up some stocks down at the harbor where all of the pick pocket toons that are caught have to remain for 2-5 minutes, or whatever. Heck...you could even add a rotten vegetable vendor to sell tomatoes and stuff to throw at the people in the stocks. Target practice, plus...you get to dirty up the pick pocket toon's gear for x amount of time! :)

Only if they introduce the Barbarian feat "Smash the stupid Rogue and take all his stuff for putting his hand in my pocket"

AussieEngineer
10-27-2010, 11:10 PM
I read through this thread and really liked the ideas presented.

No targetting PC's, and the idea of the stocks/cage to be laughed at for a minute or so would be awesome!!

I like the idea as a way to have alternate objectives/optionals in quests too.

:D

Rakian_Knight
10-28-2010, 02:17 AM
I would prefer this to be a skill.

Like how you make Intimidate/Bluff/Diplomacy checks on NPCs. Just add a Pickpocket check. But as for the loot, you'll probably end up getting vendor trash (The way they'll make it).

Sleight of Hand?

I like the idea although I'm surprised that no one has thrown the "You are heroes not villains" card yet.

Senshock
10-28-2010, 02:30 AM
So just off the cuff here.

Can we put sleight of hand in the game?

Make it a skill you can put points into, give it enhancements, items etc.

Let me sneak up to monsters in quest steal things. Have to be in sneak mode, and if you fail your check, monster aggro's. Let me sneak up to boss monsters in game, and steal keys, or other necessary components to complete the quest.

Skill check to succeed goes up with casual normal hard elite etc. As do the percentage chances to receive better rewards. Some rough reward tables below.

NPC's
10% Collectibles
5% Gold
1% Weapons
1% Items

Casual
5% Collectibles
3% Gold

Normal
10% Collectibles
5% Gold
1% Items

Hard
15% Collectibles
10% Gold
3% Items

Elite
20% Collectibles
15% Gold
5% Items

Epic
30% Collectibles
20% Gold
7% Items
.05% Epic Scrolls


This used to be one of my favorite things to do in PnP D&D. Would make for great solo fun for rogues & possibly rangers.

Not only would this give hide and move silently skills a great boon, but it would validate rogues and add a fun new dimension to solving quests.

Whats next? Players? Pick their greensteel or epic? You can see where this would lead...

Not that its not a bad idea ...if you get caught vendors wont talk to you, get a lfg (looking for get out of jail free) style marker above your head and/or lose 50 favor if they can be affiliated with a 'house' :)

Also could gain 'notoriety" favor :) New house/NPC Thieves guild?

/insert 2 copper

The_Phenx
10-28-2010, 09:19 AM
Whats next? Players? Pick their greensteel or epic? You can see where this would lead...

Not that its not a bad idea ...if you get caught vendors wont talk to you, get a lfg (looking for get out of jail free) style marker above your head and/or lose 50 favor if they can be affiliated with a 'house' :)

Also could gain 'notoriety" favor :) New house/NPC Thieves guild?

/insert 2 copper

Nah NPC's only... after careful thinking probably in quest only.

But there should totally be a thieves guild in town, after all the casters get their hole in the sky.

Therilith
10-28-2010, 09:36 AM
Picking pockets was actually one of my favorite things to do in that other game, especially while semi-RPing.

It would have to be balanced carefully so that people don't feel like they have to hit up every random NPC (although some rare items with an obscenely low drop rate could still allow for that "just one more try" feel).
The occasional quest where you can get a quest item off a mob to advance faster would be fun too.

Ookami007
10-28-2010, 01:14 PM
I'd love this idea...

However... I don't think the ability to get rares is really appropriate except possibly rare collectables.

Items should be limited to...

Rings, Trinkets, etc.... POSSIBLY keys that the mob would normally drop.

It should have the following requirements:

1) Character must be stealthed
2) Character must not have aggro
3) Character must pass a successful pickpocket check
4) Character may only make one attempt per monster per instance
5) Failure breaks stealth and immediately moves them to the top of aggro list

Only humanoid monsters or other monsters that would carry valuables should be pickable - ie. no pickpocketing a dog or lion or air elemental.

Red and Purples SHOULD be pickpockable... but higher than normal DC.

They have this in EQ2 and it's not overpowering... nor is it particularly useful, but it does add flavor.

Empireworld
05-24-2011, 09:39 AM
Pick Pocket would be a nice skill. Only against NPC's though. And nothing rare. Maybe some coins or random potion/scroll depending on NPC level.

The_Phenx
05-24-2011, 09:47 AM
Maybe time to bring this idea back form the dead for some attention?

MartinusWyllt
05-24-2011, 09:55 AM
Sleight of Hand being a skill that could maybe include turning switches/levels/opening doors without breaking stealth based on a skill check, too?

Pape_27
05-24-2011, 10:12 AM
So just off the cuff here.

Can we put sleight of hand in the game?

Make it a skill you can put points into, give it enhancements, items etc.

Let me sneak up to monsters in quest steal things. Have to be in sneak mode, and if you fail your check, monster aggro's. Let me sneak up to boss monsters in game, and steal keys, or other necessary components to complete the quest.

<snip>




NOT a good idea!

The last time me and the raid group set out, we had this novice burglar with us. I swear the fella was recently rolled and didnt have a clue! He tried to sneak up on some trolls and steal their food! OMG! He got us all sacked and nearly squished! Luckily, we were able to break free, kill the trolls and even found a nice treasure hoard to boot. I figured that he would have learned his lesson with that one...


but nooooo...

He continued his sneaky burgular ways... OMG the little fool snuck in and stole a cup from a dragon Hoard! (actually his search, sneak and hide skills werent so bad now that I think of it) Can you guess what happened? Yup. The dragon got a little steamed, singed off all my arm hairs and eyebrows (I was sooooo lucky that the flying rat didnt burn my beard clean off!)!!! AND he ate my ponies!

so for the Love of Aulë the Maker, Please, Please, Please do not put the Pickpocket skill into the game! It will ruin everything!


Thorin


_


edit: wow, I gotta say, neg rep for relating a partial version of events from the hobbit? wasnt the Thorin signature enough for you? Geeze... guess I didnt leave enough clues... some people want an easy button for everything & need to lighten up a bit... that and read some classic fantasy literature...

The_Phenx
05-24-2011, 11:04 AM
NOT a good idea!

The last time me and the raid group set out, we had this novice burglar with us. I swear the fella was recently rolled and didnt have a clue! He tried to sneak up on some trolls and steal their food! OMG! He got us all sacked and nearly squished! Luckily, we were able to break free, kill the trolls and even found a nice treasure hoard to boot. I figured that he would have learned his lesson with that one...


but nooooo...

He continued his sneaky burgular ways... OMG the little fool snuck in and stole a cup from a dragon Hoard! (actually his search, sneak and hide skills werent so bad now that I think of it) Can you guess what happened? Yup. The dragon got a little steamed, singed off all my arm hairs and eyebrows (I was sooooo lucky that the flying rat didnt burn my beard clean off!)!!! AND he ate my ponies!

so for the Love of Aulë the Maker, Please, Please, Please do not put the Pickpocket skill into the game! It will ruin everything!


Thorin


_

So because some people will suck and might wipe the party you hate the idea? Might as well say don't put clerics or wizards or... Well pretty much anything into the game.

The_Phenx
05-24-2011, 11:05 AM
sleight Of Hand Being A Skill That Could Maybe Include Turning Switches/levels/opening Doors Without Breaking Stealth Based On A Skill Check, Too?

Good Idea!!!!

Pape_27
05-24-2011, 12:33 PM
So because some people will suck and might wipe the party you hate the idea? Might as well say don't put clerics or wizards or... Well pretty much anything into the game.

skill check: Sense of Humor - you roll a < 1 >

_

danielost
05-24-2011, 12:58 PM
I like part of it except for the following items

1 rares.

2. armor I mean really they arent going to notice you stealing armor?

3. weapons other then daggers see above.


excuse me mr orc would you mind looking over there well i help myself to your armour and that two handed sword you have in your hands.

HanzelC
05-24-2011, 01:22 PM
If fails is as a challenge has been made by the offending theif. If you chose to accept you can then beat said theif and get a random item from theif's back pack. If sucess then rogue gets ramdom item or some coin relitive to level of target.

Pape_27
05-24-2011, 01:27 PM
If the thief fails its as if a challenge has been made by the offending thief. If you chose to accept you can then beat said thief and get a random item from thief's back pack. If successful then rogue gets random item or some coin relative to level of target.

all better now... im sorry, but it was just painful to read that

oradafu
05-24-2011, 02:05 PM
Sleight of Hand being a skill that could maybe include turning switches/levels/opening doors without breaking stealth based on a skill check, too?

This is probably the best suggestion that I've heard for adding this skill to the game.

portcityguy
05-24-2011, 02:12 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but from the dev's perspective, have you ever seen a new Stat or Skill addition to the game? Granted I haven't been around since the beginning, but I've never seen a new skill or Stat put into the game since I've been here. Perhaps that particular piece of code just isn't very modular, and therefore maybe it doesn't lend itself to modification very easily.

On the other hand, I have seen countless new/modified enhancements/PRE's. Perhaps a viable alternative (one the dev's may actualy be able to code/impliment) would be to add "pick pocket" as a clicky icon under the Thief Acrobat I PRE, similar to the Assassinate clicky icon under the Assassin II PRE.

This puts the function squalrely on the need for rogue levels to accomplish, and you'll need at least 6 levels of rogue in you before you go trying it.

No need for rerolling every toon in the game that wants the new skill as a class or non-class skill, no need to make an entirely new line of gear "gloves of pick pocketing +1 through +15, etc."

Just like assassinate, you have to be in stealth to use, make it a 10 + rogLvl + DEXmod DC vs. the tagets spot skill, just like assassinate if you succeed, it doesn't break your stealth and permits a timely escape, and just like assassinate if you fail, the jig is up, and the fight is on.

Just like assassinate, ONLY useable in dungeon/wilderness, and if there are mobs that are holding items, like keys or "comabt orders" and "patrol maps" that you need to progress (and would normaly have to beat them down to get), then those items should have a 100% chance of showing up in your inventory on success. This helps promote the ability to complete quests for the stealthy "you didn't kill a bunch of **** in here" bonuses.

Other generic mobs, I like the idea X% chance for collectibles, X% chance for cash, X% chance for generic bronze or silver framed loot items, and X% chance for gold-framed rare items, I would however limit the rare items to the loot table that drops the random gold-framed items anywhere in the game, like the gauntlets of Ogre Power, Peripat of Health, Ioun stones, etc. the things that aren't tied to a specific quest or story arc. (just leave epic scrolls out of it, if you want this idea to be taken even partialy serious)

Aesop
05-24-2011, 03:59 PM
Still like the idea.

Key items (maps etc that let you continue on with a quest) as a means to avoid a fight

Potions/Scrolls/Wands

Ammo/Thrown weapons

Coin/Gems

Collectibles

things like that would be perfect. I like the idea of tripping levers and doors without breaking stealth as well.

Aesop

The_Phenx
05-24-2011, 04:02 PM
Class Skill for Rogues Bards and Rangers. With Dex as a modfier. Cross Class for everyone else.

Aesop
05-24-2011, 04:36 PM
Class Skill for Rogues Bards and Rangers. With Dex as a modfier. Cross Class for everyone else.

rangers don't normally have it

knightgf
05-24-2011, 06:02 PM
Yes, I agree, sleight of hand should no doubt prove to have usefulness. However, I believe it shouldn't be restricted to pickpocketing monsters in dungeons. It can be used in quests for say, smuggling weapons in a area, doing tricks for either a distraction or a protective maneuver, and so on. In theory, city pickpocketing has its benefits, but the thing is, pickpocketing others may clash with alignment restrictions, and you may or may not be able to pickpocket people depending on your alignment...

The_Phenx
05-25-2011, 09:53 AM
rangers don't normally have it

:D never played a ranger in PNP.. was always rogues or fighters

HanzelC
05-27-2011, 09:00 AM
all better now... im sorry, but it was just painful to read that
So you don't like the idea of a PC stealing from other PCs? Or was ot that you didn't like how the reply was written?

No where in the 1st edition rules does it forbid a PC from stealing from anouther PC...Now I'm sure you'll be thinking what does that have to do with the discussion. Current rules are derived for the Basic/Expert/1st edition rules from what I can see.

No matter, thanks for belittling my opinion. Your qouted qoute applies to you as well. :)

Spot check to notice (would apply to NPCs as well) and an option to call the gaurd to beat said theif (theif loses item but target gets nothing) as well as an option to accept challenge...just a fun thought.

Happy gaming

Oldguy

TheMidnightMage
05-27-2011, 03:39 PM
I really like the idea of adding the skill for pickpocket, however it should never be allowed to be used on another pc!! Think about it just made throwing dagger +5 etc.. open your pack and it's no longer there nope not a good idea and if they did implement the PC against PC then they would need to set the bank up to store your PP!! The rest sounds great though.

Postumus
05-27-2011, 03:59 PM
It'd be a pretty fun skill to have, and for some quests, you could make it a way to complete optionals (ex. steal a key from a guard without killing him in order to get some extra XP). Only qualm I have is the name, couldn't we just call it Sleight of Hand, since that was the closest PnP equivalent?

Stealing keys rather than killing the boss for it... that would add a nice element to sneaking oriented or undermanned quests.

Aesop
05-27-2011, 04:04 PM
Stealing keys rather than killing the boss for it... that would add a nice element to sneaking oriented or undermanned quests.

Yep always been the way I would like it to work.

Aesop

The_Phenx
05-31-2011, 10:57 AM
same. Just another really cool option. NEVER player VS player.

Although I do like the thought of stealing gold from town npc's

Pape_27
05-31-2011, 11:10 PM
Or was ot that you didn't like how the reply was written?




*ding*

masterzzan
06-01-2011, 06:10 AM
i would add this idea. when you pick pocket from a monster in a quest. don't send the item\cash into the rouge inventory. make a small sack with the item apear on the ground for the rest of the party to loot too.( like the collectables that drop from mobs).
this will make a rouge runing the quest even more welcomed by other party memebers. even in a quest without any traps. ( i see poeple in low leves only ask for rouge for traps\locked doors).