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View Full Version : My first toon is 20 now and....



SajaBathor
09-09-2010, 06:41 PM
...this is what I would have to say I think if the game.
I like it compared to other MMORPG games because:
1) it doesn't demand huge amounts of your life to still be a top geared player.
2) it doesn't continually upgrade what is the top items in the game forcing old favorites to become garbage. (Wow is terrible for this. I haven't played it in a year or so and i'm sure my naxx20 epics are now worse than the average green item being found)
3) the graphics are aiming for realism instead of a cartoony look. Halflings are small people. Gnomes in wow are just annoying looking giant heads.
4) the tradition of the game is there. For those that played pencil and paper AD&D back in the day it is nice to feel totally at home in an environment. "O look a barbazu! Neat! And yes they are lawful and evil, vulnerable to silver etc."
5) character possibilities in this game are very amazing. I can create pretty much anything I imagine which is great. And I can equip them in wonderful ways. (Wow forces you to use the single item for your class they decided wzas best. Way back I spent months and months using the Unstoppable Force because that was the best you could get without giant raids or insane hours of pvp. I HATE maces and they are not the weapon of choice for roleplaying that character. But it was use that or get beat up everwhere I go.)
6) Instance reversals. Being alone in the wilds but with people in the community areas was a smart mix up. It has its cons as well but ultimately I find it very viable. I think the game could use a few wilderness areas that everyone shares just to get that element that is missing. Seeing dead monsters and knowing someone is near, searching for them. pvp areas etc.

Now that I am level 20 and have experienced the game I have to say many times I am bored so I log on and take a peek at what dungeons people are running. I check the Ah. Check guild. Then I am sort of bored and tend to log off if I can't find a run I want to do. I realize I have the option to create my own runs but in many cases I don't know the dungeon well enough or frankly just feel like taking orders rather than giving them. It is at moments like this that I wish there was more stuff in the game to interact with using my toon. Sometimes I dance around or jump on buildings, run on rooftops. The game has fantastic city design and amazing landscape scenery. But somehow I keep being brought back to the ideas from the old Sierra classics and wishing I could just go do something more with the items I get. Being able to break into homes and deal with many different randomly generated little fun quests while you rob the house would make Thieves very happy i am sure. A small home that has the option of having my own treasure room or gem sockets in the walls or something to go work on and play with. Or perhaps some more intensive gambling set ups in the inns to go play with. Being able to open my own cantina and be or such would also be fun if it had good "hookpoints" to attach fun things to do in there.
I was thinking of on of the old modules that had a boardgame with it. Stones, one of the oldest games on earth. You have the placing round and the moving round. Anyhow if you could play that against other players in say the Wayward Lobster for 5-1000gold per game or so it would give you more to do while waiting for a group to form.
These are just my suggestions and I fully realize other people are 100% content with the game the way it is.
Feather falling items and spells are super fun. I really enjoy the succubus hunt in the marketplace. That is a good example of a very cool addition to the game for just general fun.
Overall I think it's a great game.
I wanted to write a small note about how I loved Dominions from the old games. Test of the Warlords was perhaps one of the best modules from the old days if it was DM'd right.
20 is around the lvl that you would be doing dominions so perhaps some sort of expansion that creates little kingdoms like in Evony but better combined with battles like in Koei's Dynasty Warriors? That would certainly give us a lot to do after 20 and suddenly when we quest and get a bunch of magical items we normally would sell as junk, we can instead equip our soldiers with it and increase the strength of our dominions.
I would go to the store and shell out $60 for that in a heartbeat. it would make the game a great deal more fun and open up piles of new plot lines for my character to develop off of. Perhaps you could include some new raids and battlefield events to level our characters up to 36, the old standard highest level?
Anyhow for now I shall make some more Greensteel and get my affairs in order for my True Resurrection. I hope someone finds some use out of my suggestions.

ArloOne
09-09-2010, 06:48 PM
Ouch..my eyes hurt...I think I may need to upgrade my glasses.

I like some of your suggestions, I feel a more interactive gaming/gambling area would be great. I also like the idea of an open explorer area. It would be neat to see and help other folks randomly as opposed to a regular party member.

Glad your enjoying the game in general..good luck and have fun!

Aranticus
09-09-2010, 07:18 PM
...this is what I would have to say I think if the game.
I like it compared to other MMORPG games because:
1) it doesn't demand huge amounts of your life to still be a top geared player.

have you grinded out for +4 tomes, tod sets, epics yet? it isnt as bad as other mmo but the grind is still significant


2) it doesn't continually upgrade what is the top items in the game forcing old favorites to become garbage. (Wow is terrible for this. I haven't played it in a year or so and i'm sure my naxx20 epics are now worse than the average green item being found)

the latest kid on the block is the epic claw set which everyone is trying to fit in for the +4 damage


5) character possibilities in this game are very amazing. I can create pretty much anything I imagine which is great. And I can equip them in wonderful ways. (Wow forces you to use the single item for your class they decided wzas best. Way back I spent months and months using the Unstoppable Force because that was the best you could get without giant raids or insane hours of pvp. I HATE maces and they are not the weapon of choice for roleplaying that character. But it was use that or get beat up everwhere I go.)

i agree that this is the best in ddo but unfortunately it also sees a ton more bad builds, ie 8barb/6brd/6wiz etc. probably only 5% of all possible combinations actually work


6) Instance reversals. Being alone in the wilds but with people in the community areas was a smart mix up. It has its cons as well but ultimately I find it very viable. I think the game could use a few wilderness areas that everyone shares just to get that element that is missing. Seeing dead monsters and knowing someone is near, searching for them. pvp areas etc.

i cant agree more


rest of post

roll another class and experience it from another perspective and understand even more about the game

Sintwar
09-09-2010, 07:28 PM
Ouch..my eyes hurt...I think I may need to upgrade my glasses.

I like some of your suggestions, I feel a more interactive gaming/gambling area would be great. I also like the idea of an open explorer area. It would be neat to see and help other folks randomly as opposed to a regular party member.

Glad your enjoying the game in general..good luck and have fun!

Sheesh, I just made a whole post about how awesome it would be to have a few public zones with mobs, and even some ideas of how it could fit in with DDO, and I get nothing but hate all around... I don't get it...

Anyway...

To the OP,
I have been playing DDO for about a year now, and haven't reached level 20 yet mostly because I keep changing my mind and making new characters. Even then it is beginning to get annoying doing the same exact quests over and over and over and over and.... You get the idea.

I think what this game really needs are some randomly generated dungeons to really keep things spiced up. That was another post I made a while back that I got nothing but **** about it. (I don't know why, but for some reason when I post an idea people hate it, but when someone else posts the same exact idea a week later, people love it... wteff...).

I believe that with random dungeons, even if you have no real reason to quest anymore for advancement purposes, it would still be fun to explore something new every single time. Of course I am not suggesting that every quest be replaced by random dungeons (as no doubt half of the people reading this now are assuming is what I mean), but perhaps some new type of quests that have simple quest stories like finding and killing a boss or rescuing someone, etc, and were set in completely random dungeons (a bunch of randomly created maps generated by a system once per day and used throughout the day by everyone), would keep the experience amazingly fresh and fun to play as opposed to the broken record we get to play now.

This was my post about random dungeons, and how they could work:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=214777

Personally, I think if something like this were implemented, there would be endless hours of exploration fun to be had, even after level 20.

Of course it seems that most peoples idea of fun (from what I have seen) is apparently optimizing and fine tuning their toon to absolute perfection, and running the same raids 5 million times in a row to try to acquire the ingredients to achieve their idea of absolute perfection...

This seems boring and insanely pointless to me, when I would much rather be breaking into houses, and going on an adventure in an uncharted and unknown dungeon...

But that's just me I guess.

Rumbaar
09-09-2010, 07:30 PM
Wall of text hits you for 10d6 bludgeon damage :)


Now that I am level 20 and have experienced the game I have to say many times I am bored so I log on and take a peek at what dungeons people are running. I check the Ah. Check guild. Then I am sort of bored and tend to log off if I can't find a run I want to do. I realize I have the option to create my own runs but in many cases I don't know the dungeon well enough or frankly just feel like taking orders rather than giving them. It is at moments like this that I wish there was more stuff in the game to interact with using my toon.

I too am in this current state, I have leveled 3 characters to L20 and I come on and get a little bored with the current game. Do some Bloodstone farm runs and then maybe favor runs. But once I get to 1750+ on my last one, not sure what I'll be doing.

I guess the only viable solution is TR and start again. I wish I could think of a way, within my playing style, to get access to more content at 'end game'.

SajaBathor
09-09-2010, 09:07 PM
I think what this game really needs are some randomly generated dungeons to really keep things spiced up. That was another post I made a while back that I got nothing but **** about it. (I don't know why, but for some reason when I post an idea people hate it, but when someone else posts the same exact idea a week later, people love it... wteff...).

I believe that with random dungeons, even if you have no real reason to quest anymore for advancement purposes, it would still be fun to explore something new every single time. Of course I am not suggesting that every quest be replaced by random dungeons (as no doubt half of the people reading this now are assuming is what I mean), but perhaps some new type of quests that have simple quest stories like finding and killing a boss or rescuing someone, etc, and were set in completely random dungeons (a bunch of randomly created maps generated by a system once per day and used throughout the day by everyone), would keep the experience amazingly fresh and fun to play as opposed to the broken record we get to play now.

This was my post about random dungeons, and how they could work:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=214777

Personally, I think if something like this were implemented, there would be endless hours of exploration fun to be had, even after level 20.

Of course it seems that most peoples idea of fun (from what I have seen) is apparently optimizing and fine tuning their toon to absolute perfection, and running the same raids 5 million times in a row to try to acquire the ingredients to achieve their idea of absolute perfection...

This seems boring and insanely pointless to me, when I would much rather be breaking into houses, and going on an adventure in an uncharted and unknown dungeon...

But that's just me I guess.

I think a few randomly generated dungeons might work out but the idea reminds me of DiabloII and how they did randomly generated dungeons. I think to make it work and have a feel that you are actually doing something new instead of just variations of the same old thing would be to use planescape settings.
There could be an adventure portal. When you go through the portal you have no idea where you will end up only that you would be on an adventure. It might take you to the plane of fire or to the Wildlands with talking animals. To make it work the staff would have to somehow make a pile of dungeons that can mutate themselves a bit so it's never the same experience twice.
I could see that working but i think it would be a great deal of work to pull off. I'm not a programmer so I cannot say. I know that even being at level 20 I only have 15 white dragon scales and i'm not done my 3 greensteel items so there is a lot to be done regardless of what i want to be doing. There are a great many quests and packs I haven't even had a chance to explore yet. I went and did necro 1 and 2 solo just to experience it. It was fun but mostly because it was all new to me and well thought out. I guess I would agree with you under the assumption that you can actually make randomly generated dungeons that are still fun. I think it would be a challenge to create them, but if such a thing existed already, especially designed towards the solo quester, it would get used a great deal.
I just got off the phone with a buddy who only made it to lvl 5 in this game but used to be a huge starwars galaxies fan. He said most of these games lack the ability to create your own towns and environments in the game that then lead to roleplay and more community focus. I guess he can't find any game he likes now because that was what he originally liked. WoW of course offers only hack and slash for the most part so now he plays the Sims3 instead of any mmorpg. He is happy with that game so it works for him.
It would be neat if I could transfer my character to the Sims3 and play with them there between dungeons hehe.

MarkusWolfe
09-09-2010, 10:30 PM
Did I hear randomly generated dungeons? Because I am in absolute favor of that.

Sintwar
09-10-2010, 10:05 AM
Well as far as difficulty to make, you first have to notice that almost every dungeon in DDO is already mostly made up of duplicated segments that you have seen in almost every other dungeon, but that have been put together in different layouts that make it seem like a completely different quest.

Take the sewer maps for example. They all look identical, even though they all feel like completely different places. Take a run through the depths in house D again. You will notice that aside from a few particular rooms, the entire quest series is entirely made up of entirely duplicated segments. Hell, even the "unique" rooms are more often than not, duplicated from another quest.

There are plenty of unique rooms and places in the game that have definately been designed uniquely for 1 specific dungeon/map, but the vast majority of everything you do is already made up of duplicated segments.

So, knowing that they already have and use duplicate dungeon segments and rooms in abundance throughout the game, its just a matter of wondering if they are capable of creating an engine to generate daily random maps with ehough flavor and variety to keep it feeling new and worth while every time?

I would argue that they absolutely could. And should.

Take a look at some of these dungeon generators. Not only do they create elaborate and detailed dungeon maps, some of them also randomly generate locked/hidden doors, traps, treasure, monsters and even bosses, and basically an entire adventure.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/generate_dungeon.php
http://donjon.bin.sh/d20/dungeon/
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/mapper/launcher.htm
http://www.gozzys.com/article.php?cm_id=8
http://www.gozzys.com/article.php?cm_id=11
http://www.gozzys.com/article.php?cm_id=12

So, you take any of these examples, and apply the DDO segments to them, and you have completely random DDO maps. Obviously it's not "that" simple, but as you can see, pretty amazing random dungeon layouts "can" be done.

Now, obviously random dungeons will never come close to comparing with the quality of a brand new, hand crafted and unique quest, so I would never suggest that Turbine stop making those. It would be impossible for a random generator to create something with as much depth as The Pit, Gwylan's Stand, Red Willows, etc. But it could generate things like the Depths, Taming the flames, Water Works, Caged Trolls, Whisperdoom and Tear of Dhakan all day long.

Take a look for example at this overhead map of the Waterworks:
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o11/FireStorm78/The_Waterworks_Map.jpg

You can very clearly see that it is entirely made up of duplicated segments, with only about 4 actual "unique" rooms. And I can promise you that all of those "unique" rooms are duplicated from or into other dungeons.

Or check out the Depths of Doom, a very simple map:
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/maps/depthsofdoom.jpg

Both clearly use the same exact segments to make up those dungeons.

The only thing left to do to them would be to ensure that they have a simple but believable story and a reason for you to be there. A rescue, an assassination, a theft, a sabotage or even just raiding a tresure room.

The possibilities are endless, and with enough randomness in story, theme and dungeon layout, Turbine could easily boast that they have millions of possible quests to explore.

Llewndyn
09-10-2010, 10:11 AM
i agree that this is the best in ddo but unfortunately it also sees a ton more bad builds, ie 8barb/6brd/6wiz etc. probably only 5% of all possible combinations actually work

I TOLD YOU THAT WAS AN EXPERIMENT BUILD!!! You promised you wouldn't tell anyone!

DANTEIL
09-10-2010, 10:17 AM
Now that I am level 20 and have experienced the game I have to say many times I am bored so I log on and take a peek at what dungeons people are running. I check the Ah. Check guild. Then I am sort of bored and tend to log off if I can't find a run I want to do. I realize I have the option to create my own runs but in many cases I don't know the dungeon well enough or frankly just feel like taking orders rather than giving them.

This was/is exactly my situation too. Because I don't have the stamina to be a gear grinder (I don't mind re-attempting a particular quest/run every few days or so but simply repeating a quest over and over is just numbing to me), my level 20 character has been feeling increasingly pointless, and the few things that I would like to still accomplish with him include quests that are difficult to get into groups for.

What has saved the game for me is leveling up a new completely different character. Especially since I made a more solo-friendly character this time around, I have been able to do a better job of learning many of the quests on my own terms, finding things to do, such as explorers, even when there are no groups. It's much more enjoyable to be doing things other than staring at the LFM panel.