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Silver_Darkness
08-19-2010, 11:18 PM
More often than not I find myself in a dungeon with traps and group with no rogue. Or with rogue who doesn't disarm traps. What make it worst is disarming traps and lock picking is restricted to rogues only. Multiclassing rogue mess up some builds and/or doesn't fit properly in them. I think a solution to the problem is to add more rogue like classes and give them disarm trap and pick lock skill like beguiler, spelltheif, swashbuckler, scout, and artificer.

Falco_Easts
08-19-2010, 11:38 PM
No to bards getting Rogue skills.

Yes for more classes.

And also, play with better rogues. Rogues are DPS but I am yet to see a build that would be killed by not investing in trap skills on the way and still being able to hit most traps.

Angelus_dead
08-20-2010, 02:45 AM
I think a solution to the problem
What's the problem you mean?

azrael4h
08-20-2010, 03:34 AM
You need to find better Rogues to play with. Or roll one yourself.

Rogues get so many skill points (and so few useful skills) that there's little reason to not have trap skills. They can use gear swapping to make up the difference if necessary.

As far as more classes, there's been repeated calls for Artificers (who apparently can handle traps, I don't have any books with them in it so I don't care). As long as I get my Druid first, I'll be fine with that.

Robi3.0
08-20-2010, 11:23 AM
No to bards getting trap skills

HELL MOTHER ****ING YES TO ARTIFICERS!!!!111!!!11!!!!!

Scouts would be fine as well but I have to wonder how their main combat class feature Skirmish would work in DDO, making it just like sneak attack would seem lame to me.

Spiderwight
08-20-2010, 11:35 AM
I'm intrigued by the notion of Artificers - I've enjoyed playing them in PnP under both 3.5 and 4th Ed rules. They're also one of the more flavourful staples of the Eberron setting. But I'm intrigued as to how they'd work in DDO. At the risk of sidetracking the thread, anybody want to throw around any suggestions for how Artificer powers might work?

I presume they'd have access to Repair infusions, for a starter. Maybe spells (or class abilities) which work like Flame Arrow and create an instance-only wand?

t0r012
08-20-2010, 11:38 AM
More often than not I find myself in a dungeon with traps and group with no rogue. Or with rogue who doesn't disarm traps. What make it worst is disarming traps and lock picking is restricted to rogues only. Multiclassing rogue mess up some builds and/or doesn't fit properly in them. I think a solution to the problem is to add more rogue like classes and give them disarm trap and pick lock skill like beguiler, spelltheif, swashbuckler, scout, and artificer. At the very least let bards disable traps and pick locks.

a 2 rogue splash is usually more than enough to do 90% of the traps and you want more trapsmiths? What rogue are you running with that doesn't do traps?

yes some rogue splashes "mess up some builds and/or doesn't fit properly in them" you are correct there but there are just as many where they work very, very well.

no trap monkey in your group? honestly , tough luck. same with no healer but don't come in to the forums asking for a class that can heal like a healer when there are already 2.
Oh my our group doesn't have melee DPS lets ask the devs for new caster classes that do more melee DPS.

Silver_Darkness
08-20-2010, 12:11 PM
What's the problem you mean?

I'm not sure why you didn't the first part but explain it a bit better. The problem is the lack of class available to disarm
traps and pick locks. Cleric, paladins, rangers, bard, and favored souls can heal, wizard, sorcerer, rogue mechanics, and paladins lay on hands can repair warforged, but only rogues can disarm traps. As you can clearly see disarming trap is the only important skill limited to rogues only.

Silver_Darkness
08-20-2010, 12:35 PM
a 2 rogue splash is usually more than enough to do 90% of the traps and you want more trapsmiths? What rogue are you running with that doesn't do traps?

yes some rogue splashes "mess up some builds and/or doesn't fit properly in them" you are correct there but there are just as many where they work very, very well.

no trap monkey in your group? honestly , tough luck. same with no healer but don't come in to the forums asking for a class that can heal like a healer when there are already 2.
Oh my our group doesn't have melee DPS lets ask the devs for new caster classes that do more melee DPS.

As I just stated. Cleric, paladins, rangers, bard, and favored souls can heal, wizard, sorcerer, rogue mechanics, and paladins lay on hands can repair warforged, but only rogues can disarm traps. As you can clearly see disarming trap is the only important skill limited to rogues only. And let not forget the use of for repair, and heal potions, UMD repair wands and heal wands. Do you know any other way to disarm traps besides being rogue or having one in the group. Do you see any disarm trap wands and potions cause I don't. Quit complaining about my complaining, mines at the very least is reasonable complained.

t0r012
08-20-2010, 12:42 PM
As I just stated. Cleric, paladins, rangers, bard, and favored souls can heal, wizard, sorcerer, rogue mechanics, and paladins lay on hands can repair warforged, but only rogues can disarm traps. As you can clearly see disarming trap is the only important skill limited to rogues only. And let not forget the use of for repair, and heal potions, UMD repair wands and heal wands. Do you know any other way to disarm traps besides being rogue or having one in the group. Do you see any disarm trap wands and potions cause I don't. Quit complaining about my complaining, mines at the very least is reasonable complained.

Only barbs can tireless rage, only monks can wholeness of body, only fighters can specialize in weapons, only bards can use songs. Only rogues can do traps.

why would you take the one thing that makes rogues unique and give it to everything else.

Angelus_dead
08-20-2010, 12:43 PM
The problem is the lack of class available to disarm traps and pick locks.
But that's not a problem. Why would you say it's a problem?


As you can clearly see disarming trap is the only important skill limited to rogues only.
It is inaccurate to say that disarming traps is an important skill.

Dwane_Diblie
08-20-2010, 12:53 PM
No need to add extra Pick lock classes because of Knock Spell. But I do agree there needs to be atleast one more class that hass access to Disarm traps. That is unless I have missed a spell that dose more than find the traps for you. Anyway I have always thought that it would kind of fit in with Rangers. They have enough trap avoidance Enhancements, I say let them Disarm them also. Leave the trap building just to the Rogue though.

Silver_Darkness
08-20-2010, 01:34 PM
But that's not a problem. Why would you say it's a problem?


It is inaccurate to say that disarming traps is an important skill.

Inaccurate, really, have you ever gone through trap filled dungeon on elite. Traps can wipe a whole team or cripple it to point that a few mobs or boss can finish them out easily. It not as important healing is but you see it make the difference between a group struggling to get to the next shrine or not making it at all. So in my opinion that enough to have my top 5 thing to have in a group. But I also recognize that not all quest have trap so not always important, it definitely nice to have though.

Kiranselie
08-20-2010, 01:39 PM
Its not that rogues cant pick locks and disable traps, its that unless we absolutely have to, we're not going to. Would you really want to spend all your time doing something where all you do is wait for the animation to end so you can do it again. Make disabling faster then you might see more rogues doing it, but until then, meh, I'm not going to bother.

Silver_Darkness
08-20-2010, 01:47 PM
Only barbs can tireless rage, only monks can wholeness of body, only fighters can specialize in weapons, only bards can use songs. Only rogues can do traps.

why would you take the one thing that makes rogues unique and give it to everything else.

Actually their are several things that makes them unique such as improve evasion, Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Skill Mastery, Slippery Mind, improve faint, trapmaking, and Hamstring. These things make rogues quite unique so I believe this makes your argument invalid.

Silver_Darkness
08-20-2010, 01:59 PM
Its not that rogues cant pick locks and disable traps, its that unless we absolutely have to, we're not going to. Would you really want to spend all your time doing something where all you do is wait for the animation to end so you can do it again. Make disabling faster then you might see more rogues doing it, but until then, meh, I'm not going to bother.

I agree that disarming trap is not the most interesting thing to do for rogues but it sometime necessary. Maybe they can add a short minigame where if you win the trap is disabled and you get trap part, you lose you can try again, and if you lose badly it explodes. The higher your skill compare to the traps level the easier the minigame will be.

Silver_Darkness
08-20-2010, 02:08 PM
I agree that disarming trap is not the most interesting thing to do for rogues but it sometime necessary. Maybe they can add a short minigame where if you win the trap is disabled and you get trap part, you lose you can try again, and if you lose badly it explodes. The higher your skill compare to the traps level the easier the minigame will be.

The same should apply to lock picking without it exploding when you lose badly. Perhaps a minigame like in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. They should keep the choice auto lock pick and disarm trap as well.

Kiranselie
08-20-2010, 03:54 PM
I agree that disarming trap is not the most interesting thing to do for rogues but it sometime necessary. Maybe they can add a short minigame where if you win the trap is disabled and you get trap part, you lose you can try again, and if you lose badly it explodes. The higher your skill compare to the traps level the easier the minigame will be.

The second they add mini games to disable and open lock is the second before I delete my rogue. . . . again!

Here I am arguing for making disable and searching shorter and you want to add mini games.

With your ability to read right past what the player base wants you must be a Turbine Developer!

And Ive never ran a single quest where not disabling a trap makes the quest unable to be completed.

Silver_Darkness
08-22-2010, 01:48 PM
The second they add mini games to disable and open lock is the second before I delete my rogue. . . . again!

Here I am arguing for making disable and searching shorter and you want to add mini games.

With your ability to read right past what the player base wants you must be a Turbine Developer!

And Ive never ran a single quest where not disabling a trap makes the quest unable to be completed.

Sorry, I thought you were implying that disabling trap was boring not slow.

Tharlak
08-22-2010, 01:50 PM
Sorry, I thought you were implying that disabling trap was boring not slow.

slow = boring

Lorien_the_First_One
08-22-2010, 01:53 PM
Inaccurate, really, have you ever gone through trap filled dungeon on elite. Traps can wipe a whole team or cripple it to point that a few mobs or boss can finish them out easily. It not as important healing is but you see it make the difference between a group struggling to get to the next shrine or not making it at all. So in my opinion that enough to have my top 5 thing to have in a group. But I also recognize that not all quest have trap so not always important, it definitely nice to have though.

There are very few traps in the game that can't be timed to avoid them, or avoided in some way.

Angelus_dead
08-22-2010, 01:55 PM
disarming trap is not the most interesting thing to do for rogues but it sometime necessary. Maybe they can add a short minigame
A minigame might make it more interesting for the Rogue player, but it would worsen things for the other members of the group. Note that Oblivion does not have other players with you, so that concern doesn't apply.

Srozbun
08-22-2010, 01:58 PM
Many classes with even one level splash of rogue can disable almost every trap in the game.

Exploiters come to mind, 18/2 wiz/rogues come to mind, warchanters come to mind. There are tons of other very solid multiclass builds with 1-3 levels of rogue who are just as proficient as a pure rogue when it comes to traps. People on the rogue forums were already complaining there was little reason to go full rogue as even splash classes could disable traps just as well.

Many traps can be avoided/ignored as well.