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h4x0r1f1c
08-12-2010, 04:07 AM
Lower taxes. Cut big spending. Provide more jobs for unemployed PvPers. (j/k just read below)

Generate less trash loot. Easier to have less in the database.

This missing trash loot means nobody can just up and sell their "junk" for plat.

Less plat to throw around means lowered game inflation.

They'll have to be pickier. They'll feel they have only awesomeness to choose from.

Prices will go down because people will have less plat from trash loot!

Everything they have will feel so worth-keeping somehow (since it's not trash) that everything else will seem less valuable. (like the nontrash loot)

Increased usage of the trade window! Less trash piled in the AH! IT'S GENIUS!

AestorTheKnight
08-12-2010, 04:09 AM
Yep agreed :)

Therilith
08-12-2010, 04:44 AM
Since equipment is generated with random attributes, are you suggesting that they go through the list and assign each item property a chance to appear on an item based on its perceived usefulness/value?

Spiderwight
08-12-2010, 04:47 AM
Won't that make it nearly impossible for new characters to complete the early levels? My first character was funded to at least level 5 on the proceeds of selling trash loot. I won't be the only one.

(Or did I just get trolled?)

karnokvolrath
08-12-2010, 04:51 AM
You could try permadeath, or even an rp type guild that isnt permadeath but doesnt allow vendoring/stores.

A good static group of friends make the game very fun like this. All of a sudden a cure light pot makes you a demigod. :)

As far as changing the base of the game itself? NO.

It would make the game very unfriendly to newbies, and make older players have a suddenly HUGE advantage due to the 6 alternate FT2 accounts that are maxxed on plat.

h4x0r1f1c
08-12-2010, 04:52 AM
Since equipment is generated with random attributes, are you suggesting that they go through the list and assign each item property a chance to appear on an item based on its perceived usefulness/value?

If what you say is true then I would suggest simply making each item require a minimum designated amount of "stats" for the level of that item.

No more grabbing a regular mace which has no special effect on it that's worth like 1copper.

Have that mace be allotted a MIN number of stats appropriate for that level item.

Like a lvl 1 mace wouldn't have Smiting and Vorpal on it. It wouldn't have either it's too low of a level.

It could have Potency I and Power II on it though, or something. Just don't make it trash.

We need to have people comparing their loot and saying "okay I need this more than this".

ALSO it would be productive XP-wise because people would grind quests more whatever level their on for a better chance at generating better or simply alternative loot. Then they'll be bad-a lowbies.

h4x0r1f1c
08-12-2010, 04:54 AM
Won't that make it nearly impossible for new characters to complete the early levels? My first character was funded to at least level 5 on the proceeds of selling trash loot. I won't be the only one.

(Or did I just get trolled?)

Nope! See they still get loot. Appropriate for their level though. Just none of it is trash.

Because of this they may even get less loot, but no trash loot. They'll keep the best, sell the worse.

No obvious stupid stuff though. Something worth replacing later but not immediately selling to vendors.

Cylinwolf
08-12-2010, 05:31 AM
It could have Potency I and Power II on it though, or something. Just don't make it trash.


It took me a minute to catch on to this. Your definition of "trash loot" is the masterwork and nonmagic weapons that only appear in level 1 and 2 quests?

Do you understand how little selling those contributes to the economy and why this is an absolutely nonsensical idea?

Do you realize that in five minutes on a level 20 you can go loot a chest which will generate literally 5000x more cash?

h4x0r1f1c
08-12-2010, 05:36 AM
It took me a minute to catch on to this. Your definition of "trash loot" is the masterwork and nonmagic weapons that only appear in level 1 and 2 quests?

Do you understand how little selling those contributes to the economy and why this is an absolutely nonsensical idea?

Do you realize that in five minutes on a level 20 you can go loot a chest which will generate literally 5000x more cash?

Good post that was an example of trash loot for that particular level.

Trash loot for a level 20 would be something with less effects than something else, or a lower version.

Like Potency 5 instead of 6. Also it's not just for magic items. This can work with affects for all weapon types.

Maiming, Keen, Limbchop..

Visty
08-12-2010, 05:51 AM
still wont work as all loot is random

the properties of an item define its minlvl

chests have a range of questlvl-3 to questlvl-10 (or whatever the low number is) to drop items so you always will get some junk

Spiderwight
08-12-2010, 06:06 AM
Nope! See they still get loot. Appropriate for their level though. Just none of it is trash.

Because of this they may even get less loot, but no trash loot. They'll keep the best, sell the worse.

No obvious stupid stuff though. Something worth replacing later but not immediately selling to vendors.

Well, I guess you could do that. But it doesn't need to happen by any means.

If you really want better loot, go buy a Gem of Fortune.

puttster3
08-12-2010, 06:28 AM
I always laugh when I find items like feather falling <item> of feather fall to Warforged UMD'd items in where they are already immune.

Arel
08-12-2010, 06:41 AM
I always laugh when I find items like feather falling <item> of feather fall to Warforged UMD'd items in where they are already immune.

Warforged may be amazing, but we haven't invented rocket feet yet... yet.

h4x0r1f1c
08-12-2010, 04:35 PM
still wont work as all loot is random

the properties of an item define its minlvl

chests have a range of questlvl-3 to questlvl-10 (or whatever the low number is) to drop items so you always will get some junk

The loot should be based off (quest level)+(toon level)/2 for an average. Then for whatever that lvl is.. have the items get a min-amount of effects on them according to what's appropriate for the level you were calculated to receive.

kernal42
08-12-2010, 04:41 PM
Warforged may be amazing, but we haven't invented rocket feet yet... yet.

I'm sorry to hear your WF are gimped with old technology.

Mine is nearing Mach 1.5.

Cheers,
Kernal

zorander6
08-12-2010, 04:42 PM
The loot should be based off (quest level)+(toon level)/2 for an average. Then for whatever that lvl is.. have the items get a min-amount of effects on them according to what's appropriate for the level you were calculated to receive.

The only problem with that is if you have a level 20 character you could farm a level 1 quest and get level 10 items (assuming you round down.)

kernal42
08-12-2010, 04:46 PM
The loot should be based off (quest level)+(toon level)/2 for an average. Then for whatever that lvl is.. have the items get a min-amount of effects on them according to what's appropriate for the level you were calculated to receive.

This is a terrible idea. Level 20s getting ML 15 out of easy level 10 chests? Not only does this not change the likelyhood of getting useless loot, but it introduces far more value (read: plat) into the economy. Furthermore, you're now penalizing the loot of anybody who runs a quest under-levelled.

The thing about random loot systems is that you get a whole lot of junk, some useful stuff, and an occasional superb gem. I recognize you're distressed about all the junk you pull, but nothing you suggest is likely to change this except moving off of a random loot table and only offering loot that is useful to *you*.

Kernal

Visty
08-12-2010, 04:46 PM
The loot should be based off (quest level)+(toon level)/2 for an average. Then for whatever that lvl is.. have the items get a min-amount of effects on them according to what's appropriate for the level you were calculated to receive.

and why should it be that way?

besides the obivous "i want" ofc

Cyr
08-12-2010, 04:48 PM
Since equipment is generated with random attributes, are you suggesting that they go through the list and assign each item property a chance to appear on an item based on its perceived usefulness/value?

Yes, I would say this if the OP does not.

There are plenty of power combinations which are really really good and ones that are horrible. Play the game for a few months and you start realizing that most of those greater ooze bane slashers are not going to see much use while that everbright of greater ooze bane bludgeoner might be a keeper.

Lazyness in the loot tables is major issue in game. It goes all the way down from epics with badly thought out loot or loot that can't even drop to low levels with random chest loot that is just plain bad 99/100.

Teldurn
08-12-2010, 06:07 PM
I offer a simple solution to the "junk" problem: Completely eliminate all mundane and masterwork items, with the caveat that all Korthos quests still have them.

This way, you will reduce the junk items (with the reasoning that you are given essentially +1 items right out of the gate), and the mundane/MW items can get your initial cash flow started. Then, once you're in Stormreach, it will raise the likelihood that you will keep some of the items you get, since they will be theoretically better than what you've got.

One of the potential problems I see with this solution is powercreep. If everyone is getting "better" items at a decent rate, a player's rate of turnover (that is, replacing items with better ones) can probably go up.

On the other hand, since they are picking up "better" items, they are more prone to hang onto them instead of selling everything, thereby reducing the plat inflation rate.

After some thought, however, I realized that the last point I made - that the better items will be held instead of sold - had an overseen flaw: If people keep hanging onto all the good stuff, they will run out of room and be forced to sell those better, more expensive items, thus increasing the plat inflation rate.

. . .

Now I don't know which one is more accurate. Hmm.

ssgcmwatson
08-13-2010, 01:20 AM
I agree with the apparent goal of the OP ~ decrease the rate of inflation. As more people join, the amount of "vendor trash" looted and therefore the amount of currency is simply going to keep rising and the value of platinum will keep falling. In real-life terms, we essentially have a printing press that churns out an infinite amount of cash... You can almost hear that old dwarf sitting in the corner stroking his long white beard... "when I was young, we didn't have airships! We had to walk to our dungeons, up hill (both ways) in the snow! And a +3 Metalline Greataxe of Pure Good was only 120pp!" Wow.... who knew that playing a video game could teach us economics :)

However, as Spiderwight noted, many of us have toons which survived early levels (and some even became relatively wealthy) by selling off the vendor trash; it wouldn't be fair to new players to radically reduce the money they get selling off such junk.

So... in an attempt to address this problem without gimping new players here are a few humble suggestions for helping to get money out of the economy and control the inflation:

1) Create/charge for "convenience" features... for example, the farshifter in lower necro could charge $$$pp to teleport you to upper necro. It's not impossible to get there otherwise, you are just paying for the convenience. Ditto the teleporters in the houses.

2) What if dying cost you X% of you wealth? or perhaps something like "in order to use this res shrine, you need to make an offering to the appropriate god(s) of $$pp/lvl."

3) What if hireling deaths caused their price to go up? After all, if the job is more dangerous they deserve better pay ;)

4) How about creating a way to buy Turbine Points with plat? It would need an insanely high exchange rate, perhaps on the order of 100k pp = 10 TP. They already are giving points for favor, so it's not like they are completely against players getting points "for free." Another version of this might be to make *some* of the items in the DDO store available at an in-game merchant.

5) Have an in-game lottery (perhaps a 50/50 or some such); the platinum raised could be used to improve Stormreach's public schools ;)

fuzzy1guy
08-13-2010, 02:08 AM
They just need to remove or make it so some combos will NEVER be seen again.

RR halfling only greataxes? WF only dwarven axes?

Or the ever popular 1 stat 15 useless skill ML16 items.


The stuff that is pure **** that nobody will EVER use for anything but vendor feed.

Hell just monitor the pawn shops. if more than 20 of the exact same item are sitting in the pawn shops. Stop dropping those in the world.

Visty
08-13-2010, 06:13 AM
They just need to remove or make it so some combos will NEVER be seen again.

RR halfling only greataxes? WF only dwarven axes?

Or the ever popular 1 stat 15 useless skill ML16 items.


The stuff that is pure **** that nobody will EVER use for anything but vendor feed.

Hell just monitor the pawn shops. if more than 20 of the exact same item are sitting in the pawn shops. Stop dropping those in the world.

they would have to remove that one property from the entire game to never let it appear again and that wont happen

Cam_Neely
08-13-2010, 06:20 AM
Snip

Yes less Trash loot means less plat which means lower inflation. But so?

Less trash loot means less plat, so everyone will have less money. It not like DDO has hyperinflation where prices are changing beyond exceptions. So whats the upside? All I see is that there will be less gear for new players, because stuff does not become trash loot until you have a capped toon really. I love the trash loot because right now its the only thing that enables me to buy stacks of haste, rage and healing pots.

You make a policy recommendation, and predict its direct outcome, but dont consider secondary effects, or even what the direct outcome will mean to people.

Are you a Politician??






HAHA ':)'