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Cyr
08-06-2010, 04:29 PM
This suggestion is to implement capstone abilities (abilities available only to pure class level 20 characters) which augment or reflect each PrE. The idea of course being to provide more choices for capstones and this seemed liked a logical idea.

Some examples:

Existing New Rogue Capstone fits 'assassin' perfectly

Weapon Master
Prereqs: Level 20 Fighter, Kensai 3
Benefits: You gain a 15% double strike bonus with your chosen weapon.

Heavenly Light
Prereqs: Level 20 Cleric, Radiant Servant 3
Benefits: +2 Charisma. Your positive energy effects including healing spells and abilities are boosted by 20%.

Whirling Dervish
Prereqs: Level 20 Ranger, Tempest 3
Benefits: You gain the ability to double strike with your off hand attacks. Any double strike chance you have also applies to your off hand attacks. Your off hand attacks now do 3/4 your strength bonus instead of 1/2 your strength bonus.

Double Shot
Prereqs: Level 20 Ranger, AA 3
Benefits: You gain the double shot feat. Additionaly, your True Shot (or whatever that clickie that AA gets that give them a +20 to hit is called) acts as if you have rolled a natural 20 when you use it.
Double Shot: Activatable stance. This feat lets you shoot two arrows instead of one. Each shot suffers a -2 to hit. (Note: Like all other stances this can not be used with other stances so it would preclude IPS at the same time)

Doxmaster
08-06-2010, 07:41 PM
It would be interesting, but I'm curious as to what some PrEs would get: Pale master- An AoE negative energy spell-like ability? a Neg energy attack that heals the necro for half? A phylactory?

What would a Ninja spy get? or a Shintao monk?

azrael4h
08-07-2010, 08:33 AM
It would be interesting, but I'm curious as to what some PrEs would get: Pale master- An AoE negative energy spell-like ability? a Neg energy attack that heals the necro for half? A phylactory?

What would a Ninja spy get? or a Shintao monk?

Pale Master Capstone: Black Hole - Using their immense suck, the Pale Master creates a swirling vortex centered on them, doing 1d8 (go back and graduate first grade if you don't understand 1d8) untyped damage per caster level (max 20d8). Sucking Vortex lasts 6 seconds + 1 second per caster level.

coolpenguin410
08-07-2010, 08:54 AM
Love the concept. I think Tempest is too much, though. Maybe just a bonus to double strike. Increased damage from strength is too much, even it is just the off hand.

Also, Double Shot seems like too much. It's essentially what Manyshot should be, except without the additional arrows for high BaB. How would it work with Manyshot? Would it work at all? How about just a bonus to double strike permanently added?

How about:

Shield Spikes:
Prereqs: Fighter 20, Stalwart Defender 3
Attacking you becomes dangerous. Whenever an opponent makes a melee attack against you and misses, they take 1d8 damage. This damage is double if you are blocking at the time.

Doxmaster
08-07-2010, 09:16 AM
If they overlap, I see nothing wrong with it. It'll just make things more balanced.

If they multiplied somehow...then we'd have a problem.

Darkrok
08-07-2010, 09:23 AM
Shintao monk could get a glowing aura to show their powerful outsider presence (of course, like the other Shintao abilities the aura wouldn't have any beneficial qualities and would actually give a negative 20 adjustment to the Hide skill). ;)

Arel
08-07-2010, 10:16 AM
Master Ninja:

Req. Monk 20, Ninja Spy 2/3

You are a master of the shadows, and bend them to your will as easily as you can think. You can sneak at a speed equal to that of a normal person's run speed, your Empty Body ability further increases your speed while active, and you gain a +10 to your Hide and Move Silently skills. In addition, your attacks can skip through the Plane of Shadow to avoid fortified sections of armor, effectively halving the fortification of any enemy not naturally immune to critical hits.

Cyr
08-08-2010, 04:59 PM
Negative Energy Attunment
Requires: Pale Master 3, Wizard Level 20
Benefit: Your body is now attuned fully to the negative energy plane. You are healed by negative energy even in normal form. Whenever you deal negative energy damage to a creature you are healed by 20% of that damage.

Doxmaster
08-08-2010, 05:09 PM
God yes. Pale master would get the health leech ability I want and I'm sure others crave it as well.

articwarrior
08-08-2010, 05:40 PM
Double Shot
Prereqs: Level 20 Ranger, AA 3
Benefits: You gain the double shot feat. Additionaly, your True Shot (or whatever that clickie that AA gets that give them a +20 to hit is called) acts as if you have rolled a natural 20 when you use it.
Double Shot: Activatable stance. This feat lets you shoot two arrows instead of one. Each shot suffers a -2 to hit. (Note: Like all other stances this can not be used with other stances so it would preclude IPS at the same time)

I dont like that at all, arcane archer is bad enough but if you're arcane archer.. slayer arrows automatic? no thanks! I like my dps being greater than an AA as a barb and would be upset with myself if I ever lost to nearly infinite slayer arrow shots (which if I'm not correct you can also many shot)


Pale Master Capstone: Black Hole - Using their immense suck, the Pale Master creates a swirling vortex centered on them, doing 1d8 (go back and graduate first grade if you don't understand 1d8) untyped damage per caster level (max 20d8). Sucking Vortex lasts 6 seconds + 1 second per caster level.

Metamagic: Extend (for sure), Maximize? (maybe, depends if exploited), Empower (if maximized gets turned down), enlarge, and quicken


Master Ninja:

Req. Monk 20, Ninja Spy 2/3

You are a master of the shadows, and bend them to your will as easily as you can think. You can sneak at a speed equal to that of a normal person's run speed, your Empty Body ability further increases your speed while active, and you gain a +10 to your Hide and Move Silently skills. In addition, your attacks can skip through the Plane of Shadow to avoid fortified sections of armor, effectively halving the fortification of any enemy not naturally immune to critical hits.

unfortunately that isnt very useful in PvE, but in PvP is godly (but I doubt we're talking about PvP)

Rakian_Knight
08-08-2010, 06:48 PM
/signed

I've always believed that their should be a capstone that is based off of every PrE instead of just the single on based solely for your class.

Master of Mechanics
Req. Rogue 20, Mechanic tier 3
Benifits: You have become a master of traps, you get a +2 feat bonus to your int. You now also have a 100% chance of gathering trap parts from disabling traps and on top of that you can now harvest some of the core parts of elemental traps. You have a small (~5%) chance of harvesting a soul gem of a traped elemental from an disabled trap. Once per day, though you can summon an Iron, Clay, or Flesh golem to fight beside you for a short period of time.

What do you think?

articwarrior
08-08-2010, 07:00 PM
great... cept for the clay/iron golem, pets are useless at end-game

puttster3
08-08-2010, 08:54 PM
Ones for Defender of Syberie's

You defend the weak and uphold justice wherever you go, and as such you have earned the blessings of your diety. Your AC is increased by 5 and your blocking DR is also increased by 5. Whenever you are injured there is a chance that your diety shall smite the interloper from above.

Also maybe add things for per faith. Like Undying Court automatically rise once every hour, Vulkoorim summons Drow Scorpians to fight by your side (smaller then the big one you can summon), Silver Flame turns your enemies to undead, then banishes all undead, Lord of Blades gives you +6 competence bonus to strength and damage rolls, and all attacks are vorpal on a natural 20, a +4 AC bonus, and +10 Damage Reduction to both the Adamantium and null types, Unyielding Sovereignty... not sure about that one.

Mind you these faith ones could very well go to the other Divine classes, but :)

Cyr
08-09-2010, 09:06 AM
I dont like that at all, arcane archer is bad enough but if you're arcane archer.. slayer arrows automatic? no thanks! I like my dps being greater than an AA as a barb and would be upset with myself if I ever lost to nearly infinite slayer arrow shots (which if I'm not correct you can also many shot)


The ability to get the +20 to hit has a long cooldown timer.

Angelus_dead
08-09-2010, 12:30 PM
This suggestion is to implement capstone abilities (abilities available only to pure class level 20 characters) which augment or reflect each PrE. The idea of course being to provide more choices for capstones and this seemed liked a logical idea.
If they want more choices for capstones, then what they'd do is add more choices for capstones.

Adding choices that are limited to the prestige specialty you already picked reduces character flexibility and narrows the range of sensible builds.

ormsbygore
08-09-2010, 03:46 PM
I like the idea of PrE Capstones and I've got a few I'm messing with before I post them here, but I just had an idea.

Racial Capstones

Capstones that are available to any level 20 character, pure or multiclass.

Cyr
08-09-2010, 03:55 PM
If they want more choices for capstones, then what they'd do is add more choices for capstones.

Adding choices that are limited to the prestige specialty you already picked reduces character flexibility and narrows the range of sensible builds.

Themed capstones can have more potential power then generalized capstones (that will still exist and there should be more then a few of for each class). Things like the kensai capstone I listed would not work in a generalized sense nor would the pale master one I laster posted.

Specializing along a path is the entire idea of capstones to begin with...going pure class is pretty dang specialized after all.


Ormsbygore I think that is a wonderful idea. It would provide another point to distinguish the races from each other, provide more options for pure toons, and provide a capstone for multi-class toons (although one that would presumably be not as impressive as pure class ones).

Cyr
08-09-2010, 04:07 PM
Example Racial Capstones...note capstones are all limited to one total capstone per character

Essence of the Halfling
Requires: Race Halfling, Level 20
Benefit: Your are a paragon of the halfling race. You gain +1 Dex. For every Halfling Enhancement Line you have all the steps of you gain an additional step that gives the same increase as a normal step of that line does.

Dwarven Spirit
Requires: Race Dwarf, Level 20
Benefit: You are a paragon of the dwarven race. You gain +1 Con. For every Dwarven Enhancement Line you have all the steps of you gain an additional step that gives the same increase as a normal step of that line does.

Epitome of Mankind
Requires: Race Human, Level 20
Benefit: You are a paragon of the human race. You gain +1 to all skills. For every Human Enhancement Line you have all the steps of you gain an additional step that gives the same increase as a normal step of that line does. In the case of Human (whatever the name of the ability score increasing line is) if you have the second step you gain an additional +1 in that ability score.

Perfect Construction
Requires: Race Warforged, Level 20
Benefit: You are a paragon of the warforged race. You gain +1 con. For every Warforged Enhancement Line you have all the steps of you gain an additional step that gives the same increase as a normal step of that line does.

Elven Grace
Requires: Race Elf, Level 20
Benefit: You are a paragon of the elven race. You gain +1 dex. For every Elven Enhancement Line you have all the steps of you gain an additional step that gives the same increase as a normal step of that line does.

Essence of the Dark Elves
Requires: Race Drow, Level 20
Benefit: You are a paragon of the drow race. You gain +1 dex, +1 cha, and +1 int. For every Drow Enhancement Line you have all the steps of you gain an additional step that gives the same increase as a normal step of that line does.

Note: Drow gain more abilty score buffs because their enhancement lines are fairly horrible.

Cyr
08-09-2010, 04:10 PM
/signed

I've always believed that their should be a capstone that is based off of every PrE instead of just the single on based solely for your class.

Master of Mechanics
Req. Rogue 20, Mechanic tier 3
Benifits: You have become a master of traps, you get a +2 feat bonus to your int. You now also have a 100% chance of gathering trap parts from disabling traps and on top of that you can now harvest some of the core parts of elemental traps. You have a small (~5%) chance of harvesting a soul gem of a traped elemental from an disabled trap. Once per day, though you can summon an Iron, Clay, or Flesh golem to fight beside you for a short period of time.

What do you think?

Mechanics tend to be a little on the weak side so let me remove the summon clickie which most will not be impressed with due to weak summons in game being typical and swap it out for another ability with the rest unchanged...

...Whenever you would normally sneak attack a construct you damage it's defenses. This lowers the constructs fortification by 5% (stacking). This fortification damage can be healed by a heal spell, restoration magic, or a reconstruct spell.

Cyr
08-09-2010, 04:26 PM
How about:

Shield Spikes:
Prereqs: Fighter 20, Stalwart Defender 3
Attacking you becomes dangerous. Whenever an opponent makes a melee attack against you and misses, they take 1d8 damage. This damage is double if you are blocking at the time.

Very cool and fits the concept. I like the concept of an on a miss guard effect. However, when viewed besides the fighters other choice I would worry that it might be considered too weak. Maybe change the line to...

Whenever an opponent makes a melee attack against you, they take 1d8 damge.

Remove the on a hit criteria and you have more power versus raid bosses while still not competing with the fighters normal capstone.

Rakian_Knight
08-10-2010, 01:54 PM
Mechanics tend to be a little on the weak side so let me remove the summon clickie which most will not be impressed with due to weak summons in game being typical and swap it out for another ability with the rest unchanged...

...Whenever you would normally sneak attack a construct you damage it's defenses. This lowers the constructs fortification by 5% (stacking). This fortification damage can be healed by a heal spell, restoration magic, or a reconstruct spell.

Cool idea but rogue already get an ability simular to it as an enhancment line where you can lower a contructs Fortification by 30% on a single hit. Wrack Construct I believe it is called. However, I still like the idea but what happens when you lower the Fortification do you get the sneak attack and the disabling feature or just one or the other?

Cyr
08-10-2010, 02:02 PM
Cool idea but rogue already get an ability simular to it as an enhancment line where you can lower a contructs Fortification by 30% on a single hit. Wrack Construct I believe it is called. However, I still like the idea but what happens when you lower the Fortification do you get the sneak attack and the disabling feature or just one or the other?

When you lower fort on a mob it makes the mob vulnerable to sneak attacks and critical hits. It is basically a drastic dps increase versus constructs if you have mechanic in party with this proposed fort reduction. Wrack Construct is the one you are thinking of and it is an adaption of it.

Thechemicals
08-10-2010, 02:17 PM
This suggestion is to implement capstone abilities (abilities available only to pure class level 20 characters) which augment or reflect each PrE. The idea of course being to provide more choices for capstones and this seemed liked a logical idea.

Some examples:

Existing New Rogue Capstone fits 'assassin' perfectly

Weapon Master
Prereqs: Level 20 Fighter, Kensai 3
Benefits: You gain a 15% double strike bonus with your chosen weapon.

Heavenly Light
Prereqs: Level 20 Cleric, Radiant Servant 3
Benefits: +2 Charisma. Your positive energy effects including healing spells and abilities are boosted by 20%.

Whirling Dervish
Prereqs: Level 20 Ranger, Tempest 3
Benefits: You gain the ability to double strike with your off hand attacks. Any double strike chance you have also applies to your off hand attacks. Your off hand attacks now do 3/4 your strength bonus instead of 1/2 your strength bonus.

Double Shot
Prereqs: Level 20 Ranger, AA 3
Benefits: You gain the double shot feat. Additionaly, your True Shot (or whatever that clickie that AA gets that give them a +20 to hit is called) acts as if you have rolled a natural 20 when you use it.
Double Shot: Activatable stance. This feat lets you shoot two arrows instead of one. Each shot suffers a -2 to hit. (Note: Like all other stances this can not be used with other stances so it would preclude IPS at the same time)

Any idea to promote pure class balance vs splash is great in my book.

articwarrior
08-10-2010, 09:23 PM
Radiant Master
Prereqs: 20 Cleric, RS II
Benefit: You exceed others in the art of healing. You gain 2 additional turn undead attempts. Also, you gain a +85% instead of +75% to your healing with empower healing.

KKDragonLord
08-11-2010, 12:11 AM
ehrm


i don't see Turbine making capstones this good anytime soon, unless they cost huge amounts of "Astral Diamonds"

articwarrior
08-11-2010, 10:25 PM
astral diamonds are for airships not capstones,

Mr_Tank
08-11-2010, 10:34 PM
I would love to see warforged juggernauts (http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/warforged-juggernaut).

puttster3
08-11-2010, 10:35 PM
I think he meant buy something from the DDO store, and as we all know, Astral Diamonds give MUCH fewer then what you pay for them.

Cyr
08-12-2010, 10:42 AM
Grave Digger
Requires: Level 20 Paladin, Hunter of the Dead 3
Benefit: Your attacks bypass the DR of undead creatures and do 4d6 good damage versus them. You gain an additional healing amp of 10%.

Holy Guardian
Requires: Level 20 Paladin, Defender of Sib 3
Benefit: Your aura gains +1 saves, +1 concentration, and +1 AC. Your personal defensive abilities are a thing of legend. Whenever you make a saving throw for reduced damage you suffer no damage instead. This ability is not limited by armor or encumbrance.

Holy Warrior
Requires: Level 20 Paladin, Knight of the Chalice 3
Benefit: Your attacks bypass evil outsider DR and do 6d6 good damage versus them.

Cyr
08-12-2010, 10:50 AM
Master of Shadows
Requires: Monk Level 20, Ninja Spy 3
Benefits: You may use any monk abilities with your short swords. You gain 3d6 additional sneak attack damage.

Master of the Harmonious Path
Requires: Monk Level 20, Shintao Monk 3
Benefits: All of your monk abilities with durations have their durations tripled. Your monk abilities with DC's gain one to their DC's. Your attacks with your fists gain the damage types Epic and Good.

Karavek
08-12-2010, 11:33 AM
This suggestion is to implement capstone abilities (abilities available only to pure class level 20 characters) which augment or reflect each PrE. The idea of course being to provide more choices for capstones and this seemed liked a logical idea.

Some examples:

Existing New Rogue Capstone fits 'assassin' perfectly

Weapon Master
Prereqs: Level 20 Fighter, Kensai 3
Benefits: You gain a 15% double strike bonus with your chosen weapon.

Heavenly Light
Prereqs: Level 20 Cleric, Radiant Servant 3
Benefits: +2 Charisma. Your positive energy effects including healing spells and abilities are boosted by 20%.

Whirling Dervish
Prereqs: Level 20 Ranger, Tempest 3
Benefits: You gain the ability to double strike with your off hand attacks. Any double strike chance you have also applies to your off hand attacks. Your off hand attacks now do 3/4 your strength bonus instead of 1/2 your strength bonus.

Double Shot
Prereqs: Level 20 Ranger, AA 3
Benefits: You gain the double shot feat. Additionaly, your True Shot (or whatever that clickie that AA gets that give them a +20 to hit is called) acts as if you have rolled a natural 20 when you use it.
Double Shot: Activatable stance. This feat lets you shoot two arrows instead of one. Each shot suffers a -2 to hit. (Note: Like all other stances this can not be used with other stances so it would preclude IPS at the same time)

So first this game makes capstones, the pretty OP reward for persuing the no brainer easy pure class option that shows little real creativity or ingenuity in putting together( eah I know with all the builds posted that is a moot point but oh well)

How about make cap stones for multi class characters. rewarding those who develop the more versitile and all around cooler adventurer. Im all for ones that do refelct prestige classes and they should be available to anyone with even rank one ina prestige line. Guys who are 3 different prestige lines should be far more rewarded with truly fantastic capstones reflecting all the skills they possess.

Dylos_Moon
08-12-2010, 11:46 AM
Holy Guardian
Requires: Level 20 Paladin, Defender of Sib 3
Benefit: Your aura gains +1 saves, +1 concentration, and +1 AC. Your personal defensive abilities are a thing of legend. Whenever you make a saving throw for reduced damage you suffer no damage instead. This ability is not limited by armor or encumbrance.

Evasion and Mettle without multiclassing and it works in heavy armor? I think that's more then a bit overpowered.

Cyr
08-12-2010, 11:54 AM
So first this game makes capstones, the pretty OP reward for persuing the no brainer easy pure class option that shows little real creativity or ingenuity in putting together( eah I know with all the builds posted that is a moot point but oh well)

How about make cap stones for multi class characters. rewarding those who develop the more versitile and all around cooler adventurer. Im all for ones that do refelct prestige classes and they should be available to anyone with even rank one ina prestige line. Guys who are 3 different prestige lines should be far more rewarded with truly fantastic capstones reflecting all the skills they possess.

Someone brought up the idea of racial capstones earlier in the thread which I thought was a wonderful idea. If you knew me as a player you would know I find pure builds to be more often then not badly designed, poorly (if at all) thought out, and boring from a variety standpoint. As such I have exactly one pure class toon out of all my toons (warchanter bard).

In other words I don't disagree that capstones reward dumb building, but at the same time they do provide an option to make pure toons somewhat competitive with multi-class builds.

I think capstones for multi-class builds would be a good idea also, but with the caveat that they be weaker then the standard capstones due to them being more easily obtainable. Just like these PrE capstones are a little stronger then standard capstones because they require you be one path in particular.

Cyr
08-12-2010, 11:56 AM
Evasion and Mettle without multiclassing and it works in heavy armor? I think that's more then a bit overpowered.

It's supposed to be uber. I can count the number of level 20 defenders that I know of on one hand.

articwarrior
08-12-2010, 01:15 PM
How about make cap stones for multi class characters. rewarding those who develop the more versitile and all around cooler adventurer. Im all for ones that do refelct prestige classes and they should be available to anyone with even rank one ina prestige line. Guys who are 3 different prestige lines should be far more rewarded with truly fantastic capstones reflecting all the skills they possess.

it would be nice, but it would be tricky to implement due to the fact that any multiclass is possible without the limitation of alignment, also, I'm tired of seeing people running around with multiclass builds, c'mon! multiclassing is becoming unoriginal now, its more original to pure build!!! :D

puttster3
08-13-2010, 11:29 AM
it would be nice, but it would be tricky to implement due to the fact that any multiclass is possible without the limitation of alignment, also, I'm tired of seeing people running around with multiclass builds, c'mon! multiclassing is becoming unoriginal now, its more original to pure build!!! :D

Being a multi-class is unoriginal... yes.

Doing a straight up pure Paladin/Ranger/Monk/Sorcerer/Wizard/Bard/Fighter/Barbarian/Favored Soul/Rogue/Cleric in a straight up design build as original... no.

I think the PrE capstones should be either equally as powerful as a class cap in a general sense, or abit under, but definately not over. This would mean that for some builds that are pure, taking a PrE cap instead of a class cap would not be so good as taking the class cap, but may be as good to better in taking the PrE cap, all dependent on how the char is played. In other words, PrE caps to be even more situational, just like most of the benefits from HoD is. This would also mean it is more balanced out for multi's, but they MUST have a full PrE line. An good example of that would probably be Kensai Arcane Archers with a Sorcerer past life feat. That would mean by level 20 the char would have a choice of taking 1 of 3 possible capstones. One that increases the speed with ranged weapons and add double strike chance to melee, one that would increase double strike chance, and one that would increase the amount of arrows you fire.

Of course, that is IF you are only allowed 1 capstone enhancement. Also, the PrE ones may be allowed at level 18, as in when you have the full PrE.

b3h0ld3r
08-16-2010, 06:12 AM
I like the idea of PrE Capstones and I've got a few I'm messing with before I post them here, but I just had an idea.

Racial Capstones

Capstones that are available to any level 20 character, pure or multiclass.

+1 Signed here ... I think they have discussed it on the past ... but I agree with it.