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View Full Version : Green Steel de-construction . . .



grodon9999
08-06-2010, 10:05 AM
. . would be awesome, I'd even pay a reasonable amount in Turbine points to "fix" something.

I'm sure it's been brought up before but I figure I'd ask again since Alignment change has become a reality.

Asketes
08-06-2010, 10:11 AM
I'm sure it's been brought up before but I figure I'd ask again since Alignment change has become a reality.

I was going to Hi Welcome you, but this statement made me change my mind.


I don't have anything I want to deconstruct, but Yes Please



** Says the guy who has multitudes of khopesh GS he can't use on his next two TR's.**

hahaha oh well, they remain pretty stoneskin clickies and random lsII for show off!

h4x0r1f1c
08-07-2010, 12:35 AM
Let us pay some plat (NOT REAL MONEY COME ON YOU GUYS GOT US ON THE AIRSHIPS GIVE IT A REST) and do this please. :)

I'd like to get my ingredients back on dumb items I've made.

bendover
08-07-2010, 12:49 AM
Let us pay some plat (NOT REAL MONEY COME ON YOU GUYS GOT US ON THE AIRSHIPS GIVE IT A REST) and do this please. :)

I'd like to get my ingredients back on dumb items I've made.

Maybe you should have done it right the first time.

thisgamesull
08-07-2010, 12:54 AM
Maybe you should have done it right the first time.

We cant always be sober:D

Jay203
08-07-2010, 12:59 AM
We cant always be sober:D

you need to hurry up and get to the lvl of play where you can make all your greensteels correctly even while wasted >=3

sephiroth1084
08-07-2010, 01:01 AM
I'd probably pay some TP to breakdown some of my mistakes or obsoleted greensteels so that the ingredients could be put to some use other than collecting dust in the bank.

bendover
08-07-2010, 01:04 AM
We cant always be sober:D

I admit I've crafted double sharded items blasted out of my mind

sephiroth1084
08-07-2010, 01:06 AM
Maybe you should have done it right the first time.
TR dwarf to human, dwarven axe no longer useful. Epic items and new raid gear have come out, and now a Mineral II helm is no longer as ideal as it was, and an Int +3 scepter is pretty pointless.

Really, we should have received greensteel deconstruction when TRing hit.

Sageki
08-07-2010, 01:07 AM
/signed

bendover
08-07-2010, 01:08 AM
TR dwarf to human, dwarven axe no longer useful. Epic items and new raid gear have come out, and now a Mineral II helm is no longer as ideal as it was, and an Int +3 scepter is pretty pointless.

Really, we should have received greensteel deconstruction when TRing hit.

I know man I was just responding to the dee dee dees post.

Alternative
08-07-2010, 01:21 AM
Really, we should have received greensteel deconstruction when TRing hit.

This. I'm going to Tr my drow to a human but my min2 rapiers remain rapiers. Two of them.

/signed

TreknaQudane
08-07-2010, 01:22 AM
Really, we should have received greensteel deconstruction when TRing hit.

Except the item has had its use. Something new came out and its no longer idea. It's the nature of MMO progression. You used the item and then you replace the item. Just because you can get something better now does not entitle you to a mulligan.

Do you turn in you want to take back your +2 Int tome you received, and used, as a reward for Favor because you just got a +4 Int and could really use that +2 Con instead of the now wasted +2? Heck no

It's the same thing for Green Steel. They've had their use, they aren't useful now, move on or make another.

Bracosius
08-07-2010, 01:35 AM
I'm sure it's been brought up before but I figure I'd ask again since Alignment change has become a reality.


Nope, has never come up before. Great idea. ;)

sephiroth1084
08-07-2010, 01:41 AM
Except the item has had its use. Something new came out and its no longer idea. It's the nature of MMO progression. You used the item and then you replace the item. Just because you can get something better now does not entitle you to a mulligan.

Do you turn in you want to take back your +2 Int tome you received, and used, as a reward for Favor because you just got a +4 Int and could really use that +2 Con instead of the now wasted +2? Heck no

It's the same thing for Green Steel. They've had their use, they aren't useful now, move on or make another.

Except that the system functions differently, and requires more planning.

We've gotten rewritable crafting for armor and epic items, and neither are anywhere near as popular as Shroud crafting.

Hell, I just made two dual shard scimitars for my tnak's next life, and then, while reading Junts' thoughts on dropping the 2 fighter levels on a pally tank and going THF sans-feats, I found myself intrigued, but unable to even consider trying the idea out, because it would put the 48 larges I just spent to complete waste.

Gunga
08-10-2010, 03:39 PM
Nope, has never come up before. Great idea. ;)

Honestly, I still haven't seen anyone mention it.

I still think it's a good idea, though.

Pyromaniac
08-10-2010, 06:36 PM
/signed again.

Can't ask for it too many times, maybe sooner or later they'll acknowledge that we want it. I seem to recall an interview where it was said that the player base doesn't want this.

Lorien_the_First_One
08-10-2010, 06:39 PM
/signed again.

Can't ask for it too many times, maybe sooner or later they'll acknowledge that we want it. I seem to recall an interview where it was said that the player base doesn't want this.

I don't recall that, but I do recall them saying it wasn't in their plans in the foreseeable future.

SaisMatters
08-10-2010, 06:46 PM
What? No beating a dead horse pic yet??? for shame!

Dragonhyde
08-10-2010, 06:54 PM
Personally if deconstuction of greensteel makes it into game I hope it will just be a way to go back one step. As in if you make a mistake on T3 then you pay to take the greensteel back to T2 but you would not get your large ingredients back. This way you can fix mistakes but you still have to run for your ingredients.

Pyromaniac
08-11-2010, 07:34 AM
I don't recall that, but I do recall them saying it wasn't in their plans in the foreseeable future.

It was one of the Kate interviews before she left.

Limey
08-11-2010, 07:50 AM
I want to pay!

Please Turbine, I will pay you if you bring this in! Real money yes, look at it, all shiney. It will fuel your Lear jet, pay your gardener/tennis coach, cmon you know you want it.

grodon9999
08-11-2010, 07:57 AM
Personally if deconstuction of greensteel makes it into game I hope it will just be a way to go back one step. As in if you make a mistake on T3 then you pay to take the greensteel back to T2 but you would not get your large ingredients back. This way you can fix mistakes but you still have to run for your ingredients.

I think paying real money (Turbine Point) should be enough and you should get your ingredients back. Possibly if you want to make it an in-game expense epic tokens.

This is something that is absolutely a luxury and not needed but would be very nice.

Tortavil
08-11-2010, 07:58 AM
I don't think they will ever do a full deconstruction as it makes things a bit to easy. However I would support an idea that gives you back say 50% of the ingredients with 0 shards. That way there is some penalty for swapping gs builds but its not throwing away 2 months of farming. Add in the go back 1 step idea in case of a mistake and I think you have a perfect system.

sephiroth1084
08-11-2010, 08:01 AM
I don't think they will ever do a full deconstruction as it makes things a bit to easy. However I would support an idea that gives you back say 50% of the ingredients with 0 shards. That way there is some penalty for swapping gs builds but its not throwing away 2 months of farming. Add in the go back 1 step idea in case of a mistake and I think you have a perfect system.
I'd support that.

Drakos
08-11-2010, 08:04 AM
I can see that there is genuinly a need for some whay to correct a mistake you made while crafting. Mabye a undo feature if done within a certain timeframe.

With that being said, I see that it would more likely be used to exploit the crafting system. It helps further the "flavor of the month" attitude. Today one GS weapon reigns supreme, so everyone builds that. Tommorow some new weapon becomes the ideal so deconstruct and reconstruct the new one.

grodon9999
08-11-2010, 08:05 AM
I don't think they will ever do a full deconstruction as it makes things a bit to easy. However I would support an idea that gives you back say 50% of the ingredients with 0 shards. That way there is some penalty for swapping gs builds but its not throwing away 2 months of farming. Add in the go back 1 step idea in case of a mistake and I think you have a perfect system.

Nah, if it's gonna be a money-maker for Turbine it's gotta be something people would use more often that just emergencies.

I like the idea of stripping the item to a blank, giving you your ingredients back, but you lose your shards. That's reasonably "punitive" but not so much that people would actually still use this feature.

Lithic
08-11-2010, 08:06 AM
I think the problem is that there are so very many combinations of items. If we do get deconstruction, it will probably be something like you put in any greensteel item in a stone of change, and it spits out 1 of each ingredient for every tier you complete, and maybe the associated shards, which would still be much better than what we have now.

grodon9999
08-11-2010, 08:07 AM
I can see that there is genuinly a need for some whay to correct a mistake you made while crafting. Mabye a undo feature if done within a certain timeframe.

With that being said, I see that it would more likely be used to exploit the crafting system. It helps further the "flavor of the month" attitude. Today one GS weapon reigns supreme, so everyone builds that. Tommorow some new weapon becomes the ideal so deconstruct and reconstruct the new one.

Oh come on, like anything GS is ever gonna replace the Khopesh as the ubber-weapon in munchkin land?

Raveolution
08-12-2010, 01:47 AM
/signed x10
Something like deconstruction tokens in ddo store. Large token for tier 3, medium for tier 2, small for tier 1.
And u will get all ur ings back but loose shards.

Waukeen
08-12-2010, 01:52 AM
no.

make it right or have some clickies.

better yet charge 1795 TP.

maybe the revenue stream would lead to some MEANINGFUL content and raids.

BurningDownTheHouse
08-12-2010, 02:31 AM
no.

make it right or have some clickies.

better yet charge 1795 TP.

maybe the revenue stream would lead to some MEANINGFUL content and raids.

Have to disagree man.
Greensteel deconstruction will really help those who take the TR route.
For this reason I personally would really like like to see it in.

Kromize
08-12-2010, 03:59 AM
Really, we should have received greensteel deconstruction when TRing hit.

Deconstruction shoulda came out with green steel.

h4x0r1f1c
08-12-2010, 04:21 AM
Deconstruction shoulda came out with green steel.

Deconstruction should have came without Green Steel.

j/k but I agree. Melee need good DPS too can't let casters take all the kills!

Kromize
08-12-2010, 05:11 AM
Deconstruction should have came without Green Steel.

j/k but I agree. Melee need good DPS too can't let casters take all the kills!

:D

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd305/Thawte/grammar-nazi.jpg

mehlinda
08-12-2010, 05:25 AM
Except the item has had its use. Something new came out and its no longer idea. It's the nature of MMO progression. You used the item and then you replace the item. Just because you can get something better now does not entitle you to a mulligan.

Do you turn in you want to take back your +2 Int tome you received, and used, as a reward for Favor because you just got a +4 Int and could really use that +2 Con instead of the now wasted +2? Heck no

It's the same thing for Green Steel. They've had their use, they aren't useful now, move on or make another.

I don't like the work mulligan in this sense. Lots of people put effort into customizing their characters only to be somewhat victimized by major changes such as Barbarian crit rage to frenzied berzerker or the TWF nerf . I have a 2wf barbarian who was a victim of each. I recognize I didn't have to respec the crit rage but after the 2wf nerf I would love to make him a 2hf barb and lesser rez to fix my stats. Reconstructing the Khopesh's would save me months of Shrouding...just being able to turn in my 94 large bones for 33 of an ingredient I might someday use would be really lovely as well.. Not all greensteel items people would like to reconstruct were mistakes. Some of them were purposely created and later made into muckbanes by the changes to the game.
I still give you +1 rep because you are always to the point and can back up what you say but I respectfully disagree and would like to see deconstruction of some sort.

Bobthesponge
08-12-2010, 06:00 AM
/not signed

this is an Easy Button.

you baked a cake and now you don't like it so you want to separate it into sugar, flour, eggs, ect...?

life doesn't work like that and the game - to the degree that a fantasy MMORPG can - tries to imitate life. Yes we have magic but magic can't do everything. The ingredients were fundamentally changed by the crafting process and can not be changed back.

and yes, i have a mistake tier 3 greataxe. it was my first one and crafting had just come out and i didn't realise you needed to put BOTH tier 3 shards on at the same time... so i have a big, expensive SS clicky instead of a MinII GA.

Arel
08-12-2010, 06:15 AM
I like the idea as an option, even if it is TP only, but I have to agree that this can't give back all of your mats, not without some other massive cost. It trivializes the grind since you could always crunch an item if you found out something didn't work like you wanted.

50% (even rounded up) seems like a good number, perhaps even with the shard. Leaves you still needing to farm some materials, but gives you a significant head-start, particularly with larges.

Lorien_the_First_One
08-12-2010, 06:20 AM
I think the problem is that there are so very many combinations of items. If we do get deconstruction, it will probably be something like you put in any greensteel item in a stone of change, and it spits out 1 of each ingredient for every tier you complete, and maybe the associated shards, which would still be much better than what we have now.

Just give me my larges back lol

Lorien_the_First_One
08-12-2010, 06:22 AM
/not signed

this is an Easy Button.

you baked a cake and now you don't like it so you want to separate it into sugar, flour, eggs, ect...?

life doesn't work like that and the game - to the degree that a fantasy MMORPG can - tries to imitate life. Yes we have magic but magic can't do everything. The ingredients were fundamentally changed by the crafting process and can not be changed back.

and yes, i have a mistake tier 3 greataxe. it was my first one and crafting had just come out and i didn't realise you needed to put BOTH tier 3 shards on at the same time... so i have a big, expensive SS clicky instead of a MinII GA.

In real life...or in D&D... you don't normally kill the same badguy in the same dungeon an average of 40 times to find ingredients to make a weapon... only to have an oops or a change in the rules of the Universe mean that its not the right weapon/item anymore and now you have to kill the same badguy in the same dungeon another 40 times.

Bobthesponge
08-12-2010, 07:02 AM
In real life...or in D&D... you don't normally kill the same badguy in the same dungeon an average of 40 times to find ingredients to make a weapon... only to have an oops or a change in the rules of the Universe mean that its not the right weapon/item anymore and now you have to kill the same badguy in the same dungeon another 40 times.

Hmmm... you could probably get a real life analogy out of that... going to work every day and doing the boss' dirty work for 10 years only to have the boss switch jobs and new boss give your promised promotion to someone else? That might work. :-)

In any case, within the confines of a fantasy MMORPG - and that qualifyer is important - this is something I don't think should happen for reasons stated above. Yes, it would be nice and if the devs implemented it I would use it because I have the willpower of a concussed duckling, but it doesn't make much sense.

I class this in the same group as the argument I saw the other day about the need to "fix" being able to use curse pots on someone else across a room. My argument there is that it is supposed to be a potion in a bottle and it logically makes no sense that someone 30 feet away should get the benefit unless you throw it at him and just happen to hit his mouth and have the bottle break and the potion dribble in and not cut up his pretty face ect... not terribly realistic.

The ingredients are used up and detroyed in the process of making the item/weapon. You can't get them back.

So there!

grodon9999
08-12-2010, 02:40 PM
The ingredients are used up and detroyed in the process of making the item/weapon. You can't get them back.

So there!

Sure you can, it's magic.

patang01
08-12-2010, 03:00 PM
I wouldn't mind a de-construct; you lose the actual GS item itself, all power shards and stones but keep the mats - both from the construction of the item and the shroud runs. That way you kind of 'pay' alot just to do it, but you don't lose some of the most important aspects of grinding for it.

I still would have to get together another signet stone, get all the shards but I could replace some of the mistakes I've done and use them towards better items.

On the same topic; it would be cool to have some form of de-construction for mats for named items. I mean I can't use most of them unless I TR to a specific class and I can't give them to another toon since they're bound to character. Make it random based on quality of item. Any small, medium or large shroud mat. 1-2. Either a de-construct stone as a random end reward (or 20th shroud run) or one that you can buy for TP.

Carpone
08-12-2010, 03:01 PM
The Greensteel crafting system is so complex that it requires thirdparty tools to create an item. Good luck crafting Greensteel with only information provided within the game! Of course there are going to be mistakes. The entire system needs an overhaul to make it simpler and less error prone. That will happen around the same time Greensteel handwraps can be crafted (read: never).

kernal42
08-12-2010, 03:07 PM
Sure you can, it's magic.

Can't I just....use magic to create new ingredients in the first place?

Fetchi
08-12-2010, 03:09 PM
Hmmm... you could probably get a real life analogy out of that... going to work every day and doing the boss' dirty work for 10 years only to have the boss switch jobs and new boss give your promised promotion to someone else? That might work. :-)

In any case, within the confines of a fantasy MMORPG - and that qualifyer is important - this is something I don't think should happen for reasons stated above. Yes, it would be nice and if the devs implemented it I would use it because I have the willpower of a concussed duckling, but it doesn't make much sense.

I class this in the same group as the argument I saw the other day about the need to "fix" being able to use curse pots on someone else across a room. My argument there is that it is supposed to be a potion in a bottle and it logically makes no sense that someone 30 feet away should get the benefit unless you throw it at him and just happen to hit his mouth and have the bottle break and the potion dribble in and not cut up his pretty face ect... not terribly realistic.

The ingredients are used up and detroyed in the process of making the item/weapon. You can't get them back.

So there!

So let me get this straight: You are trying to make perfect logical sense about a magical crafting alter in some magic land where magic ingredients are used to make a magical item. But you can't get your head around a magical way to reverse the process?

grodon9999
08-12-2010, 03:10 PM
Can't I just....use magic to create new ingredients in the first place?

No, but they'll soon be in the DDO store!

grodon9999
08-12-2010, 03:12 PM
So let me get this straight: You are trying to make perfect logical sense about a magical crafting alter in some magic land where magic ingredients are used to make a magical item. But you can't get your head around a magical way to reverse the process?

Pretty much, the devs can do whatever they want and technobabble their way through it all. I'm just suggesting we gain a luxury for anyone who's goofed up.

We have magic helmets that while offering ABSOLUTELY ZERO armor protection give you 100% immunity to critical hits. This isn't any more absurd.

vorpel
08-12-2010, 03:25 PM
Amen! If the rules of the game weren't changed so often, then I'd think along the lines of just craft another, but we didn't change the rules and we are trying to do the best we can within them.

If you don't like the idea of deconstructing a greensteel item (if it ever comes out) then don't. Those of us that would like to do that for a lot of different reasons will be happy to.




In real life...or in D&D... you don't normally kill the same badguy in the same dungeon an average of 40 times to find ingredients to make a weapon... only to have an oops or a change in the rules of the Universe mean that its not the right weapon/item anymore and now you have to kill the same badguy in the same dungeon another 40 times.

krud
08-12-2010, 03:47 PM
hmmm.. Not too many posts opposing this. In fact, I've seen many more rabid responses to stuff that eventually got put in the game.

At a minimum I would like to be able to change weapon/item types. Add a new GS blank, plus your old weapon/item, click the altar, and you switch weapon/item types.

At the same time they should also address the DT lottery system, but i'm not holding my breath.