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h4x0r1f1c
07-27-2010, 08:25 PM
At level 20, "Mental Toughness" and "Improved Mental Toughness" only give a total of 210 SP combined.

That's poo. Can this be bumped up a little?

Not a whole lot but at least enough to where each feat would be worthwhile.

Asketes
07-27-2010, 08:28 PM
At level 20, "Mental Toughness" and "Improved Mental Toughness" only give a total of 210 SP combined.

That's poo. Can this be bumped up a little?

Not a whole lot but at least enough to where each feat would be worthwhile.


well it's working as intended, so it's wrong about needing a fix.


should have said *Buff Mental Toughness Up*

Arcticwarrior
07-27-2010, 09:04 PM
I believe you should be able to take it mutliple times just like normal toughness

Deaths_ward
07-27-2010, 09:28 PM
I believe you should be able to take it mutliple times just like normal toughness

/not signed, I don't need anymore silly little sorc's without max and empower thinking they're useful just because they have loads more SP to cast with. I'd be all for bumping it to 25 at level 1, and 10 or 15 at each level there after, and making it a requirement for the +SP enhancements, but being able to take it more than once is what's known in the MMO world as a 'Newbie Trap'. One of those things that sounds awesome in theory, but in practice, burning more than one feat on mental toughness would be fail, it's almost not worth taking it to begin with.

PopeJual
07-27-2010, 09:35 PM
/not signed, I don't need anymore silly little sorc's without max and empower thinking they're useful just because they have loads more SP to cast with. I'd be all for bumping it to 25 at level 1, and 10 or 15 at each level there after, and making it a requirement for the +SP enhancements, but being able to take it more than once is what's known in the MMO world as a 'Newbie Trap'. One of those things that sounds awesome in theory, but in practice, burning more than one feat on mental toughness would be fail, it's almost not worth taking it to begin with.

Just like taking Toughness more than once.

Arcticwarrior
07-27-2010, 09:43 PM
/not signed, I don't need anymore silly little sorc's without max and empower thinking they're useful just because they have loads more SP to cast with. I'd be all for bumping it to 25 at level 1, and 10 or 15 at each level there after, and making it a requirement for the +SP enhancements, but being able to take it more than once is what's known in the MMO world as a 'Newbie Trap'. One of those things that sounds awesome in theory, but in practice, burning more than one feat on mental toughness would be fail, it's almost not worth taking it to begin with.

I'm not trying to say that you SHOULD do it, I'm saying its an option, of course maximize and empower is much better, but if I didnt have to use alot of feats for my PrE and mental toughness could be taken more than once, I would. Also seeing as improved mental toughness is the same thing as mental toughness, it could help if you could get mental toughness two times at a level lower than improved toughness's requirements. As a wizard I know how it feels to be let out on some spell points and having to use 1-2 pots per shroud. So it could be 25 at level 1 and 10 everyone level+ multiple takings, at least then people would see it more

Rasczak
07-28-2010, 12:38 AM
Just like taking Toughness more than once.

You have to be alive to use up spell points :D

Deaths_ward
07-28-2010, 12:41 AM
I'm not trying to say that you SHOULD do it, I'm saying its an option, of course maximize and empower is much better, but if I didnt have to use alot of feats for my PrE and mental toughness could be taken more than once, I would. Also seeing as improved mental toughness is the same thing as mental toughness, it could help if you could get mental toughness two times at a level lower than improved toughness's requirements. As a wizard I know how it feels to be let out on some spell points and having to use 1-2 pots per shroud. So it could be 25 at level 1 and 10 everyone level+ multiple takings, at least then people would see it more

You have to use mana pots in the shroud? Do you shortman elite every run?

LordRavnos
07-28-2010, 01:43 AM
eh I think 2 of them are enough, you do not need 5000 SP to do quests, just learn how to use what you got.



I'm not trying to say that you SHOULD do it, I'm saying its an option, of course maximize and empower is much better, but if I didnt have to use alot of feats for my PrE and mental toughness could be taken more than once, I would. Also seeing as improved mental toughness is the same thing as mental toughness, it could help if you could get mental toughness two times at a level lower than improved toughness's requirements. As a wizard I know how it feels to be let out on some spell points and having to use 1-2 pots per shroud. So it could be 25 at level 1 and 10 everyone level+ multiple takings, at least then people would see it more

You need pots to do shroud? I have been doing shroud since 16 and I never once used a pot, yes I may have gotten down to double digits back then, but its not hard to learn have left over. Use instant death spells for part 1, along with haste and rage( when its a group spell sigh). Part 2 buff the group, wait to kill the crystal, or if another arcane has it, just Polar Ray the mobs, unless the group sucks you will have left over SP. Part 3 need nothing of course, part 4 and 5, waves of fatigue and exhaustion, then Polar ray til your empty. Easy peasy rice and cheesy.

Cylinwolf
07-28-2010, 02:52 AM
then Polar ray til your empty.

Leaving about 15% of your mana just in case you have to two-round to deal with the trash. If it's clear it's one-round, it's not hard to dump the rest of that mana.

Truga
07-28-2010, 04:01 AM
Just make improved mental toughness twice as effective as toughness. It is "improved" why does it provide the same amount of SP.

That said, I took both on my wizard. They help at low/mid levels, and when I think I'm ok without, I can swap at least one out for free.

LordRavnos
07-28-2010, 04:16 AM
Leaving about 15% of your mana just in case you have to two-round to deal with the trash. If it's clear it's one-round, it's not hard to dump the rest of that mana.

Oops yeah, right here better info. +1 for catching that, stupid staying up late playing SC2 all night heh

vVAnjilaVv
07-28-2010, 05:46 AM
I believe you should be able to take it mutliple times just like normal toughness

Honestly, the only character that really has room for both MT feats is a wizard, and even then it's a stretch.

I think ur far better off specializing in a school, and most likely taking both DC feats and both Spell Pen feats......and by the time u take all ur important metas and other misc. feats u need there is usually not even room for MT and IMT. The better ur DC's and SPell Pen is at end game the less SP u need.

Unless of course ur a battle caster that dumped INT and only uses DPS spells....at that point being able to take MT multiple times on a WIZ would be very advantageous.

PopeJual
07-28-2010, 07:13 AM
You have to be alive to use up spell points :D

If 350 HP isn't enough for you (my HP at cap when self-buffed in a quest), then 373 HP isn't going to keep you alive either.

I believe that EVERY wizard should be taking Toughness and starting with at least 14 Con (12 for Elves/16 for WF) and should make an effort to get their hands on a Greater False Life item eventually along with a +6 Con item, +45 HP Shroud item and Minos Legens or alternative.

That said, even on a Wizard, feats are a precious resource. Taking Toughness once gets you an extra 23 +20 HP (or +30 or 40 HP if WF). Taking Toughness a second time just gets you an extra 23 HP.

23 HP is nice, but when you already have 350 or better, then spending another feat to pick up another 23 is not a good choice as far as I'm concerned.

Rasczak
07-28-2010, 07:29 AM
If 350 HP isn't enough for you (my HP at cap when self-buffed in a quest), then 373 HP isn't going to keep you alive either.

I believe that EVERY wizard should be taking Toughness and starting with at least 14 Con (12 for Elves/16 for WF) and should make an effort to get their hands on a Greater False Life item eventually along with a +6 Con item, +45 HP Shroud item and Minos Legens or alternative.

That said, even on a Wizard, feats are a precious resource. Taking Toughness once gets you an extra 23 +20 HP (or +30 or 40 HP if WF). Taking Toughness a second time just gets you an extra 23 HP.

23 HP is nice, but when you already have 350 or better, then spending a feat to pick up another 23 is not a good choice as far as I'm concerned.

Warforge Wizards have death wishes and spending a feat on toughness is way more important than spending a feat on sp for any caster. That being said, 23 hp is worth a feat, 200 sp is not :eek:

What I would suggest to the person though is maybe to take extend off while casting firewalls, maybe try not FoD everything in the quest and maybe just opt for diplomacy and some mass charms instead of force missiles :D Make a Hezrou and deck him out with some buffs....

Now my next question is who stole my sarcasm smilie because that thing is so important............

PopeJual
07-28-2010, 07:50 AM
Warforge Wizards have death wishes and spending a feat on toughness is way more important than spending a feat on sp for any caster. That being said, 23 hp is worth a feat, 200 sp is not :eek:

Spending A feat on Toughness is a good investment in my opinion. Spending multiple feats on Toughness is not. Also I don't have a death wish, but I do like grabbing aggro so that all those squishy melee types who can't handle it can have a little breathing room. :)


What I would suggest to the person though is maybe to take extend off while casting firewalls, maybe try not FoD everything in the quest and maybe just opt for diplomacy and some mass charms instead of force missiles :D Make a Hezrou and deck him out with some buffs....

Now my next question is who stole my sarcasm smilie because that thing is so important............

I agree 100% with your spell choice analysis. Mass Hold Monster is a lot more effective than Meteor Swarm if you have the DC to make the spell stick. At low levels, Charm Person is more effective than Niac's Cold Ray and Resist Energy is more useful than Scorching Ray.

And I can stop casting Wall of Fire any time I want. I really could quit if I wanted to.

They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been bad but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go, go, go

Rasczak
07-28-2010, 08:37 AM
Spending A feat on Toughness is a good investment in my opinion. Spending multiple feats on Toughness is not. Also I don't have a death wish, but I do like grabbing aggro so that all those squishy melee types who can't handle it can have a little breathing room. :)

Agreed 100%.....although there are some rogues and drow sorcs out there.....



They tried to make me go to rehab but I said 'no, no, no'
Yes I've been bad but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab but I won't go, go, go


You are disqualified from making any more musical choices Miss Hilton.....

h4x0r1f1c
07-28-2010, 10:03 PM
Some of you guys post in all the good-idea threads just to say why you think it's stupid when really it's like.. you guys are crazy or something lol.. @ The people who thought making the Mental Toughness feats better in some way was a bad idea.

PopeJual
07-28-2010, 10:23 PM
Some of you guys post in all the good-idea threads just to say why you think it's stupid when really it's like.. you guys are crazy or something lol.. @ The people who thought making the Mental Toughness feats better in some way was a bad idea.

I didn't see anyone say that improving the Mental Toughness feats was a bad idea.

I saw some people (myself included) who think that taking lots and lots of Mental Toughness feats as they are currently written, but multiple times like HP Toughness is a bad idea.

Did you misread the posts in this thread?