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Thelmallen
07-26-2010, 04:42 PM
Get rid of it.

Or at least make it more bearable.

I vociferously opposed the change to ToD when it happened, arguing that you now have to effectively 'double-flag' for that quest, but one of the flags requires randomly-generated ingredients. The second part of that flagging system really only hurts the average and casual player, who, unfortunately, make up the majority of the gaming community. I realize that the intent is to encourage people to run the Battlefield quests. However, the unfortunate reality is those people are largely excluded from running the raid if they don't have boots. I don't know how it goes on the other servers but on Sarlona, a LFM for ToD generally includes the words "Must have boots".

I know that I'm going to get swamped with people saying, "I pulled 3 bloods from one run of Bastion" or "I got my boot ingredients in 2 days for all of my 10 characters" but let me assure you, those experiences are not reflective of what's happening to the average player.

I stopped playing for about 4 months, largely because I was sick of the grind. In the month since I've come back, I've had a blast, being reminded daily why I love this game so much. However, two of my characters don't have boots of anchoring so I thought I had better knuckle down and go get those ingredients. Dozens of runs through Shavarath quests later, I've acquired a total of one mysterious artifact. This experience reminds me why I took a break. I realize that this is bad luck and I may pull ingredients from every end chest for the next 10 runs. Or I may run 50 more and not get any...it's random.

And that's my beef with this raid 'flagging' mechanism. Take out the random, make us do our work and get our results. I have no problem flagging for raids. I have no problem running Vale quests to acquire ingredients for items I choose to build. I do have a problem slogging my way through mobs of CR19 Orthons and Barbazu for 20-30 minutes to earn a 3-5% chance at pulling one of four pieces of a recipe that is now essentially required by the gaming community to run the highest-level non-epic raid.

Okay, I've outlined why I think it's bad, so now a few suggestions:

1) Change Horoth's radius of banishment to what it was before the 'fix'. This will allow people to still participate in the run who do not have boots. The non-boot melees can still kill orthons or Sully while not being actively engaged in melee with Horoth.

2) Increase the drop rate on boot ingredients. I know they've already been increased once, but it's not enough. Consider adding boot ingredients to the other chests in the raid or to other chests in the Battlefield quests or even the rares in the Battlefield. This was done in Gianthold and it has not hurt that adventure area at all.

3) Take out the randomness completely. Random hurts the average player while being a non-factor for power-gamers. Make the ingredients a static drop. If you want to ensure that people run these quests more than once each, make the boots require more ingredients or have the static drops only be part of one ingredient (ala the pieces of epic dungeon tokens but not 1/100, for heaven's sake).

4) Get rid of it completely. I know that's not going to happen and would make many people unhappy as well but it is an option.

That's all I have. Please understand that this is not a rant but does reflect some moderate degree of in my opinion well-earned frustration on my part. And it's not that I don't care but posting your experiences of pulling all your boot ingredients for your entire complement of characters in one afternoon last week is not contributing to the thread.

-Thel

Sir_Chonas
07-26-2010, 04:53 PM
So far I'm about 0/30 on boot ingredients. . . While I don't mind running the content. . .It is rather hard to get groups for, and I'd like at least some measure that I'm making progress . . . small shards of devil keepsakes that can be crafted into an average devil's keepsake . . . 20th completion guarantees of ingredients. . something.

davidcampa
07-26-2010, 04:57 PM
I personally think the drop rate is fine, I have boots for 4 toons.

My high saves pally got them almost last, Until you get them get the mantle, that helps some.

My fighter was ported about 1/3 of the time until I finally got the boots. no big deal just ran the quests to get the Ingrediants.

I think farming the boots should be part of the quest. I always thought the best part of TOD when it came out is seeing what guildies made it to the end without getting banished.

sacredtheory
07-26-2010, 04:59 PM
I completely agree with you. I've had many runs of all the various quests out there, and have not seen just one ingredient drop for me. So combine the ridiculous drop-rates of the ingredients, the insane AH prices for the ingredients, and the non-caster friendly pack that Shavarath is, well I pretty much just hate that whole area. It's totally different for a melee, but I'm sorry, everything out there is extremely boring, tedious, and hard for an arcane caster.

Vynnt
07-26-2010, 05:03 PM
Try farming the two 12 quests. Weapons shipment and Wrath of flames are significantly easier and faster than the rest of the quests. Both, drop ingredients.

elricken
07-26-2010, 05:03 PM
Uhh... what?

...

Boot ingredients are not a grind, it is actually very easy imo.

Easier than Ascension Chamber flagging for sure.

But maybe its different for me, I can solo sins normal in less than 20 minutes (Not exactly an accomplishment, people do it on elite in that time).

Wrath of the flame takes less than 5?

The other mats can easily be bought off of the auction house, they are cheap (Not that d-bloods or keepsake's are expensive right now).

Or you can easily trade for them.

Not at all a grind, not in the slightest.

Edit:

This post did come off as dismissive and abrasive (It was just after I woke up and before any coffee/breakfast, if that is any excuse) and for that I apologize to the op.

moops
07-26-2010, 05:11 PM
Well Thel I feel your pain. . .You know I take people without boots all the time, and usually they do not get banished--only our main tanks whom forget to put their boots back on lol.

I can give you the ingreds for one set of boots--As I am the lucky one :) Ill be on later.

soupertc
07-26-2010, 05:16 PM
I got some extra ingred I can send ya. I expect any UBER desert scrolls as payment :)!!! I'll be on Wen sometime....let me know what ya need and I'll see what I got for ya.

Thelmallen
07-26-2010, 05:17 PM
Well Thel I feel your pain. . .You know I take people without boots all the time, and usually they do not get banished--only our main takes whom forget to put their boots back on lol.

I can give you the ingreds for one set of boots--As I am the lucky one :) Ill be on later.

Thanks for the offer, Hex but this wasn't a cry for 'help!' from the guildies as y'all have been more than generous with ingredients already! I'll get them eventually, I know, it's just ridiculous the 'luck' that some people have (or don't have).

sacredtheory
07-26-2010, 05:18 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I hate the idea that you have to grind your way into a raid, I'm thinking of you Abbot, Gianthold, and ToD (technically the boots aren't needed).

I understand making desirable items a grind (DT, GS), but not getting into a raid.

soupertc
07-26-2010, 05:19 PM
I know that I'm going to get swamped with people saying, "I pulled 3 bloods from one run of Bastion" or "I got my boot ingredients in 2 days for all of my 10 characters" but let me assure you, those experiences are not reflective of what's happening to the average player.


And it's not that I don't care but posting your experiences of pulling all your boot ingredients for your entire complement of characters in one afternoon last week is not contributing to the thread.

-Thel


Uhh... what?

...

Boot ingredients are not a grind, it is actually very easy imo.

Easier than Ascension Chamber flagging for sure.

But maybe its different for me, I can solo sins normal in less than 20 minutes (Not exactly an accomplishment, people do it on elite in that time).

Wrath of the flame takes less than 5?

The other mats can easily be bought off of the auction house, they are cheap (Not that d-bloods or keepsake's are expensive right now).

Or you can easily trade for them.

Not at all a grind, not in the slightest.

LOL

some people just don't read to well.

Thelmallen
07-26-2010, 05:20 PM
Uhh... what?

...

Boot ingredients are not a grind, it is actually very easy imo.

Easier than Ascension Chamber flagging for sure.

But maybe its different for me, I can solo sins normal in less than 20 minutes (Not exactly an accomplishment, people do it on elite in that time).

Wrath of the flame takes less than 5?

The other mats can easily be bought off of the auction house, they are cheap (Not that d-bloods or keepsake's are expensive right now).

Or you can easily trade for them.

Not at all a grind, not in the slightest.

Thanks for your input. Not helpful but input nonetheless.

And a 3-5% drop rate on a 4-ingredeint recipe is a grind for most people. Sounds like it isn't for you but for most people it is.

320k pp for blood (what it's been on Sarlona recently) is expensive, btw, especially if you have to cough up as much for two of the other three ingredients. That's nearly 1 million pp for each set of boots. That's a lot, no matter who you are.

I've run Wrath and Shipment many, many, many times. Probably run Wrath 30-35 times in the past few weeks and haven't pulled anything. Haven't run Shipment as much lately but I cannot recall ever pulling any ingredient out of those chests. I think I had a guildie give me a Shimmering Arrowhead once months ago but that's it.

toughguyjoe
07-26-2010, 05:22 PM
Wrath of the Flame: Demons Blood and Mysterious Artifact

Weapons Shipment: Pure Shavrath Iron and Devils Keepsake

Both of these quests are so easy that as my good buddy Thumpx used to say "A Caveman could do it"

Both can easily be solo'd if necessary or completely over powered and run with a good group in mere minutes.

That doesn't make the ingredients magically appear in the chest, I know.

However I have done ten runs of Wrath farming ingreds and came out with two Artifacts and Three Demons Blood.

Also, on Argo, Mysterious artifacts can be had from the auction house for a mere 5k plat.

toughguyjoe
07-26-2010, 05:24 PM
Thanks for your input. Not helpful but input nonetheless.

And a 3-5% drop rate on a 4-ingredeint recipe is a grind for most people. Sounds like it isn't for you but for most people it is.

320k pp for blood (what it's been on Sarlona recently) is expensive, btw, especially if you have to cough up as much for two of the other three ingredients. That's nearly 1 million pp for each set of boots. That's a lot, no matter who you are.

I've run Wrath and Shipment many, many, many times. Probably run Wrath 30-35 times in the past few weeks and haven't pulled anything. Haven't run Shipment as much lately but I cannot recall ever pulling any ingredient out of those chests. I think I had a guildie give me a Shimmering Arrowhead once months ago but that's it.

There is no Helpful input.

If you're looking for Input on how to get your droprates to increase, No one will give you any.

All we can say is "there are two simple quests that drop ingredients in their end chests. Go grind them."

moops
07-26-2010, 05:25 PM
Thanks for the offer, Hex but this wasn't a cry for 'help!' from the guildies as y'all have been more than generous with ingredients already! I'll get them eventually, I know, it's just ridiculous the 'luck' that some people have (or don't have).

Well I have been watching you run these quests over and over--and you just have some really really bad luck. Me? Im very lucky---I accidently hit the wrong LFM for weapons shipment and stayed anyway, and pulled a Keepsake lol. I solo Sins and Bastion for fun, so I got some extra stuff.

redspear
07-26-2010, 05:27 PM
I agree. I got my first toon "flagged" but since I wasn't flagged, I never bothered runnin it. Started up my now main (dwarf barb) and when the same situation began to happen I just send the 2 ingrediants I had got to him, got lucky on a blood (yay for wrath of flame being much faster and less boring than the weapons shipment) and simply bought the devils off AH.

I really which the drop rate on some things would increase. I have already decided that I will be gettin a bloodstone from the AH as the grind for one (30 so runs and nothing, and havin read some of the nightmares people have with it, Its just not worth it).

DANTEIL
07-26-2010, 05:29 PM
Get rid of it.

Or at least make it more bearable.

Excellent suggestions +1

I realize that some people are able to acquire these easily. But in my experience, getting these ingredients is a near-impossible task. Case in point: One recent night I joined up with a group to grind out multiple runs of Weapons Shipment just for this purpose, and nothing dropped for anyone the entire night. I understand that this is simply bad luck, but it is very disheartening, especially since doing so-called "quick" solo runs on *any* Amrath quest to farm for ingredients is out of the question for my character.

The OP has some good ideas that would represent a reasonable compromise, assuming that getting rid of the boot requirement completely is out of the question.

Xaearth
07-26-2010, 05:31 PM
It took me so long to get the ingredients for my main, that now no one is accepting a PUG wizzy that hasn't kited pt 2 before.

So I have the boot ingredients, still can't get in the raid.
Just glad I foresaw this and didn't actually make the boots yet seeing as my monk is likely to get flagged before I ever get my wizzy into ToD. :rolleyes:

Thelmallen
07-26-2010, 05:32 PM
Go grind them."

Lol so that's your response to my "let's fix the boot ingredient grind" thread?

Thx.

moops
07-26-2010, 05:33 PM
While staying neutral about whether ingreds are hard to get or not. . .or a Grind

I would like to point out that a Devil Scale sells for more than a Demon's Blood on the AH:)

And Shrouds are run 20 times more than TODs.

The other ingreds are really really cheap on the AH.

Thelmallen
07-26-2010, 05:40 PM
While staying neutral about whether ingreds are hard to get or not. . .or a Grind

I would like to point out that a Devil Scale sells for more than a Demon's Blood on the AH:)

And Shrouds are run 20 times more than TODs.

The other ingreds are really really cheap on the AH.

Thanks for your neutrality--you certainly are one of the people who could have said "I pulled all of mine in an afternoon"! Good advice on selling larges. I have all of the scales I need to craft my next GS item so I'll probably be putting my next one(s) up on AH to get some cash.

Quikster
07-26-2010, 05:53 PM
Thanks for your neutrality--you certainly are one of the people who could have said "I pulled all of mine in an afternoon"! Good advice on selling larges. I have all of the scales I need to craft my next GS item so I'll probably be putting my next one(s) up on AH to get some cash.

Just sell em to me. Ill get you the boot ingred if needed.

Irinis
07-26-2010, 06:14 PM
Hey what's wrong with accepting help from your guildies and friends? You were grinding it, you've worked, they had better luck and want to share. Just share something you have had better luck in, or when the day comes that you get the luck and pull 3 bloods from Bastion put them up for roll because someone helped you out when you needed it.

I can understand that you want to be able to actually earn it from running the quests and that the mechanism is still a wee bit broken. I've had no Keepsake luck lately. :)

Quikster
07-26-2010, 06:28 PM
Hey what's wrong with accepting help from your guildies and friends? You were grinding it, you've worked, they had better luck and want to share. Just share something you have had better luck in, or when the day comes that you get the luck and pull 3 bloods from Bastion put them up for roll because someone helped you out when you needed it.

I can understand that you want to be able to actually earn it from running the quests and that the mechanism is still a wee bit broken. I've had no Keepsake luck lately. :)

I think the problem is what about the guy who doesnt have a guild, or his guild isnt wealthy, or they dont have xtra ingredients etc.

elricken
07-26-2010, 07:08 PM
Thanks for your input. Not helpful but input nonetheless.

And a 3-5% drop rate on a 4-ingredeint recipe is a grind for most people. Sounds like it isn't for you but for most people it is.

320k pp for blood (what it's been on Sarlona recently) is expensive, btw, especially if you have to cough up as much for two of the other three ingredients. That's nearly 1 million pp for each set of boots. That's a lot, no matter who you are.

I've run Wrath and Shipment many, many, many times. Probably run Wrath 30-35 times in the past few weeks and haven't pulled anything. Haven't run Shipment as much lately but I cannot recall ever pulling any ingredient out of those chests. I think I had a guildie give me a Shimmering Arrowhead once months ago but that's it.

I am sorry you have had such poor luck getting the mats, that sucks. Maybe my experience with their droprates is not typical.

I have an extra two keepsakes atm, hit me up on morfane or cealest and we can work something out if ya want.

elricken
07-26-2010, 07:19 PM
LOL

some people just don't read to well.

I have yet to say that I pulled mats for all of my characters in one afternoon.

Nor have I stated that I have pulled 3 bloods out of one bastion.

What I did state in my clumsy heavy handed manner is that at least to me it is not all that bad, I don't find it to be a grind. I also don't expect it to happen right away on any of my characters, run some amrath here run some there and before I know it that particular character is booted.

AyumiAmakusa
07-26-2010, 07:28 PM
Not at all a grind, not in the slightest.

Did 30 runs of Perdition's Pass. Not a single drop. Not a grind? What does grind mean to you?

toughguyjoe
07-26-2010, 07:38 PM
Lol so that's your response to my "let's fix the boot ingredient grind" thread?

Thx.

I do think it sucks that you have bad luck getting your boot ingredients. When the raid first came out I had the same problem. No ingredients would drop for me.

They increased the Drop rates. I was easily able to get Keepsakes, Iron and Artifacts. Blood still wouldn't drop for me.

They added Blood and Artifacts to Wrath. Problems were solved. I know that on Argonessen very few people have the problem if being short boot ingredients.

I don't know the exact numbers, and I'm totally feeling for you on not being able to get yours, but you having bad luck isn't a reason to revamp a system.

If a sizable group of players is experiencing the same thing though, you're on to something.

elricken
07-26-2010, 07:40 PM
Did 30 runs of Perdition's Pass. Not a single drop. Not a grind? What does grind mean to you?

I have not experienced a grind for boot materials, I have never done 30 Weapons Shipment runs and not received a mat. My experience has not been a grind for TOD flagging/boots. I have always been able to trade for them or pull them in limited runs.

The op was a post about reducing grind in an area that I don't consider to be a grind, so I said as much.

AyumiAmakusa
07-26-2010, 07:47 PM
I have not experienced a grind for boot materials, I have never done 30 Weapons Shipment runs and not received a mat. My experience has not been a grind for TOD flagging/boots. I have always been able to trade for them or pull them in limited runs.

The op was a post about reducing grind in an area that I don't consider to be a grind, so I said as much.

The OP did mention that there would be people like you who post saying that it isn't a grind. But you don't reflect what most others experience. Your previous posts imply that it is NOT a grind for ALL of us but that's just from your own personal experiences.

elricken
07-26-2010, 08:47 PM
Debate about grind or lack of it aside, my suggestion for the op is:

You are most likely going to have to sacrifice something beit time or other items acquired in game

Things that will trade well for boot mats -

Blue Dragonscales
Red Scales from evon6
Platinum
Shroud Larges

I would also suggest running sins a few times, seems that I have had the best luck getting keepsakes from that particular instance. Shroud larges are not uncommon from there either, which can in turn be traded for boot mats.

I wish you the best of luck in acquiring your boot mats.

elricken
07-26-2010, 08:49 PM
The OP did mention that there would be people like you who post saying that it isn't a grind. But you don't reflect what most others experience. Your previous posts imply that it is NOT a grind for ALL of us but that's just from your own personal experiences.

It is not just my experience but the experience of others as well, feel free to necro old threads about the same topic.

I have also had this discussion in game, and have found in that limited sampling that fair amount of players also find that there is no boot mat grind.

soupertc
07-26-2010, 09:23 PM
It is not just my experience but the experience of others as well, feel free to necro old threads about the same topic.

I have also had this discussion in game, and have found in that limited sampling that fair amount of players also find that there is no boot mat grind.

if getting boots wasn't a grind then there would be no market for them in the 1st place. Pretty much anything of value in this game is a grind......Shroud Ingred,Epic Scrolls,Litany Tome Pages and well Boot Ingred. If they were as easy to obtain then they still wouldn't sell for 350k. Now I got boots on the 6 toons I run through ToD...most I looted...I got lucky. But I group with several people who play alot more than me and they have 1 or 2 that do.

Thelmallen
07-26-2010, 10:08 PM
Thanks for all of the replies.

I have to say that they illustrate, however, what a random system like this makes: haves and have-nots. The 'haves' don't think that there's a grind at all because they pulled their ingredients and pulled them quickly. The 'have-nots', like me, possess terrible luck and still struggle to find what they need.

I took way too many stats classes over the course of my college years so I understand how it all works. I know that eventually things will come around but when you're talking a 3-5% chance to pull each of 4 ingredients, that's a lot of runs to smooth out the statistic wrinkles. Average that over 4 or 5 alts....you see what I mean.

xxScoobyDooxx
07-26-2010, 10:56 PM
Curious, are you running these quests in a full group or Solo?

The reason I ask is that for three weeks a buddy and I were farming The Shadow Crypt for Devouts. We had runs down to about 8 minutes and ransacked twice and not a single rare dropped with two of us.

Last night 6 of us in group doing the same run. In run 3, Devouts drop, same in Run 4 and 2 more sets in run 6 and 7. Witching hours dropped and other rares as well. 4 devouts in 8 runs.

So ........ statistically it would seem that the size of the group increased the drop rate by more than 6 v's 2.

Also could have been luck but grinding for 25 plus runs over 3 weeks and getting nothing to pulling 4 sets in under 4 hours in one session ........ well.

Completely unscientific but hell 4 sets went to 4 monks in our guild ... a very fine day in the life of the grind.

did I mention .... 4 sets ... Devouts .... 4

lolz

FluffyCalico
07-26-2010, 11:00 PM
You do know it takes less than an hr to grid a set of boots right?
And that you can do it solo right?

I have pulled enough mats for 4 pairs of boots since U5 despite the fact all my toons were booted before that... Boot parts are dropping like mad. The only people who can't get boots are those that haven't done the quests recently or those that are very poor. I mean seriously the price of boot mats has gone from about 500K to about 30K each since the U5 drop everywhere change.

AyumiAmakusa
07-26-2010, 11:01 PM
You do know it takes less than an hr to grid a set of boots right?
And that you can do it solo right?

But they never drop for me....

Tomes, named items, Vale ingredients (including Large items), all yes. Boots ingredients? No.

Gonna hit the AH for this.

DANTEIL
07-26-2010, 11:53 PM
You do know it takes less than an hr to grid a set of boots right?
And that you can do it solo right?

Augh. bangs head.

Eladiun
07-27-2010, 12:18 AM
You do know it takes less than an hr to grid a set of boots right?
And that you can do it solo right?

I have pulled enough mats for 4 pairs of boots since U5 despite the fact all my toons were booted before that... Boot parts are dropping like mad. The only people who can't get boots are those that haven't done the quests recently or those that are very poor. I mean seriously the price of boot mats has gone from about 500K to about 30K each since the U5 drop everywhere change.

Agreed ran Wrath and Weapons last night and everyone pulled at least one component between the two quests. If you apply a serious effort you will have it in no time.

Kyllinge
07-27-2010, 12:37 AM
Currently people are being banished while wearing the boots. Know 2 people so far, on 2 seperate raids.

sirgog
07-27-2010, 12:41 AM
It's not as bad as the Gianthold relic grind, but it's pretty close.

IMO the drop rates should be 100% when the flagging quests are run on Elite. Casual, normal and hard, sure, keep them low. But if you can do a full flagging tour on elite - you've earned boots, IMO.

Xaearth
07-27-2010, 12:46 AM
Agreed ran Wrath and Weapons last night and everyone pulled at least one component between the two quests. If you apply a serious effort you will have it in no time.

Ransacking Wrath 2 weeks in a row on 2 and a half (ok I didn't ransack on the third, so I'm calling it a half) characters earned me 1 of each of the two ingredients that drop there... and a hat. :rolleyes:

Eladiun
07-27-2010, 07:17 AM
Ransacking Wrath 2 weeks in a row on 2 and a half (ok I didn't ransack on the third, so I'm calling it a half) characters earned me 1 of each of the two ingredients that drop there... and a hat. :rolleyes:

I actually saw the hat drop last night for the first time. It looks cool and is kind of neat. It would be more cool if air elementals weren't neutered.

Quikster
07-27-2010, 07:55 AM
Thanks for all of the replies.

I have to say that they illustrate, however, what a random system like this makes: haves and have-nots. The 'haves' don't think that there's a grind at all because they pulled their ingredients and pulled them quickly. The 'have-nots', like me, possess terrible luck and still struggle to find what they need.

I took way too many stats classes over the course of my college years so I understand how it all works. I know that eventually things will come around but when you're talking a 3-5% chance to pull each of 4 ingredients, that's a lot of runs to smooth out the statistic wrinkles. Average that over 4 or 5 alts....you see what I mean.


I agree. I belong to the haves, but i can see how it would be frustrating. You are a person that has a real life with a demanding job. You sometimes log in and get into a raid and get called back to work. The job you have can be emotionally draining as well. So you log in and the guilds running a raid train. Once we start we usually go all night till we are down to 1 or 2 people. We rarely spend time running flagging quests all night. So you spend some down time, or give up some raid time to get your ingredients and have 0 luck pulling. Not you arent running the quests as many have alleged here, but are running and completing the quest, looting the end chest, and not getting any ingredients. Its frustrating. Why would you want to pay to be frustrated constantly?


It's not as bad as the Gianthold relic grind, but it's pretty close.

IMO the drop rates should be 100% when the flagging quests are run on Elite. Casual, normal and hard, sure, keep them low. But if you can do a full flagging tour on elite - you've earned boots, IMO.

Sure I can buy that. Another thing they can do is add more ingredients, and guarantee a drop similar to the way gh is. At least in collecting relics you are always moving forward with just about every quest completion.

Kza
07-27-2010, 08:01 AM
On khybers Ah boot ingrs just flood over, any player that want can just buy it from there for less than 2 large scales.
So the grind is nonexistent on that server atleast :-)

(run 3-5 shrouds sell all and you have yer shoes)

grodon9999
07-27-2010, 08:08 AM
. . .

Easier than Ascension Chamber flagging for sure.



The ToD boot flagging is a pain but it's not nearly as tedius as Abbot or grinding for relics in GH. I'd prefer they fix the two non-end-game grinds first.

PCNONSENSE
07-27-2010, 08:11 AM
I dont understand these posts? Please fill me in.

How can you possibly have run these many Battlefield quests and not have enough plat to buy multiple sets of boots? It is impossible. The materials can be found on the AH for a reasonable price if you are looking.

Think about it? Even if you just vendor all the trash you pull, you should have plenty of plat.

dkyle
07-27-2010, 08:18 AM
It's not as bad as the Gianthold relic grind, but it's pretty close.

One big difference is you can get many relics as a side effect of doing good XP quests, whereas boot grind is often done at cap. Even if you do it before cap, the xp/min in Amrath quests is pretty bad.

Chette
07-27-2010, 08:19 AM
I have two capped toons and each have run each of the battlefield quests probably 3 or 4 times, plus weapons shipment about 30 times. I have pulled one demon's blood and one other ingredient. The other ingredient came from weapons shipment. I realize 3 or 4 times on each quest isn't a lot, and I think I got relatively lucky with my blood. But what makes this grind so awful is the randomness. Yes, the gianthold grind takes a lot of time, but you KNOW you will get relics at the end. You also get them from the rare chests, if not 100% of the time (and I think it might be 100%) at least most of the time. If you are a smart player you can find a good route through the explorer area to pick up rares and relics, and you will know which quests you can run quickly for the relics you need. With boots you might get them in one evening of grinding, or it might take you a month. That's the part I don't like. Cut out the randomness and make it about smart play, not luck.

BangsLiekWhoa
07-27-2010, 08:27 AM
Getting the ingredients requires a little bit of work, but is not unreasonable especially after they added new drop locations.

1. Some things should require work.
2. You make a ton of money selling the loot you get from these quests while you are looking for your ingredients.
3. You actually get to do quests that are a challenge and quite fun.
4. If you want a "grind" for flagging a raid, go to the necropolis and flag for Abbot. You get to find 8 sigil pieces (random chance for drops) then run the pre-raid 4 times. (also, try to get DT runes)
5. Play with friends! If you make friends and run with them, they will likely loan you an ingredient until you can pay them back.

AyumiAmakusa
07-27-2010, 08:35 AM
Ransacked the chest in Weapon's Shipment and got exactly zero boots ingredients. I did get a Mysterious Bauble, however, so I guess that evens out.

Schmoe
07-27-2010, 08:46 AM
With all due respect, I don't think it's a grind at all. The ingredients are not bound, which means that they can be traded, bought, sold, given away, etc. In addition, for a 20th level character the ingredients aren't really that expensive. That means that there are a number of ways to acquire them other than actually having them drop for you in a chest.

If the ingredients were bound, it would be a grind (DT armor, looking at you)

If the total cost of the ingredients was outrageous (buying a t3 greensteel from scratch, for example), it would be a grind.

Since getting boots of anchoring is neither of these, it's not a grind IMO. I suggest that you run enough Amrath quests to get flagged for ToD, and to get any favor you might want, and maybe run a few more for fun. After that buy what you're missing, or hit up your guildies, and be done with it. No grinding required.

mws2970
07-27-2010, 08:55 AM
I was pretty lucky on my paladin getting boot ingredients to drop. I got 2 from Weapons Shipment. I also got one by trading a ToD belt someone wanted for the blood. Yeah, it was a better deal for me, I know. I had to buy the keepsake from the AH, so for this toon, it wasn't too bad. But......

For my wizzy, I have had pretty bad luck. I have run all of the Shavarath quests multiple times and only had 1 keepsake drop. I'd love to see the drops upped a bit just to eliminate some of the grind. I do admit that I have seen, but not pulled, ingredients on Elite Wrath of the Flame runs, so there is some hope!

sacredtheory
07-27-2010, 08:59 AM
I dont understand these posts? Please fill me in.

How can you possibly have run these many Battlefield quests and not have enough plat to buy multiple sets of boots? It is impossible. The materials can be found on the AH for a reasonable price if you are looking.

Think about it? Even if you just vendor all the trash you pull, you should have plenty of plat.

I've been looking, for weeks, and with the exception of the artifact, the other ingredients average 400-500k plat. So about 1.5 million plat for one set of boots....that's not reasonable.

Folonius
07-27-2010, 09:09 AM
However, two of my characters don't have boots of anchoring so I thought I had better knuckle down and go get those ingredients. Dozens of runs through Shavarath quests later, I've acquired a total of one mysterious artifact.

I'm not going to disagree with you that the ingredients are hard to grind, so don't grind for them. Run shroud and vale quests, sell ingredients, and then buy the boot ingredients.

Get a large devil scale, a few twigs, and some funk and take them to the marketplace and use the trade channel. You should sell it rather quickly. A devil scale will sell instantly for 200k plat, and for 300k plat, you'll have a modest wait. The twigs and funk will sell almost instantly for 50k plat, and who doesn't love running coal chamber. :D

Thrudh
07-27-2010, 09:25 AM
You do know it takes less than an hr to grid a set of boots right?

LOL...

You probably send mail to African orphans telling them that it's easy to get food, so stop complaining!

soupertc
07-27-2010, 10:07 AM
I dont understand these posts? Please fill me in.

How can you possibly have run these many Battlefield quests and not have enough plat to buy multiple sets of boots? It is impossible. The materials can be found on the AH for a reasonable price if you are looking.

Think about it? Even if you just vendor all the trash you pull, you should have plenty of plat.

I think he explained pretty well what he thought. Not sure if your on Sarlona but only cheap ingred is Mysterious Artifact....the other 3 can be fairly expensive still.


One big difference is you can get many relics as a side effect of doing good XP quests, whereas boot grind is often done at cap. Even if you do it before cap, the xp/min in Amrath quests is pretty bad.

+1


With all due respect, I don't think it's a grind at all. The ingredients are not bound, which means that they can be traded, bought, sold, given away, etc. In addition, for a 20th level character the ingredients aren't really that expensive. That means that there are a number of ways to acquire them other than actually having them drop for you in a chest.

If the ingredients were bound, it would be a grind (DT armor, looking at you)

If the total cost of the ingredients was outrageous (buying a t3 greensteel from scratch, for example), it would be a grind.

Since getting boots of anchoring is neither of these, it's not a grind IMO. I suggest that you run enough Amrath quests to get flagged for ToD, and to get any favor you might want, and maybe run a few more for fun. After that buy what you're missing, or hit up your guildies, and be done with it. No grinding required.

preception is reality. DT armor wasn't a grind for me either(well except on one toon). But I know it was/is for some people so I'm happy about the "Fix" that is coming soon. Just cause you or me pull ingred fairly easily doesn't mean all will. And trust me I'm sure multiple people have offered him Ingred(hell I did)....he's a prideful B@stard though.

Thelmallen
07-27-2010, 10:51 AM
You do know it takes less than an hr to grid a set of boots right?
And that you can do it solo right?

I have pulled enough mats for 4 pairs of boots since U5 despite the fact all my toons were booted before that... Boot parts are dropping like mad. The only people who can't get boots are those that haven't done the quests recently or those that are very poor. I mean seriously the price of boot mats has gone from about 500K to about 30K each since the U5 drop everywhere change.

Are you serious, Fluffy? Did you even read my OP? Did you read the dozen-plus responses where people who have the bad luck like me have chimed in?

No, it DOES NOT TAKE AN HOUR to grind for boot ingredients, it just doesn't. Not for everyone. Maybe for you but you are not everyone. I've ran Wrath 30+ times in the past two weeks and pulled nothing, not one single ingredient. Ten or so runs through Shipment yielded the same results. And this is just recently--does not include all of the runs through Shipment I did and solo'd before I took a 4 month break due to the grind. I think I ransacked that Shipment chest twice each on my battle bard and ranger back then. I got an artifact from a guild run through Invasion but that's it. Nothing from Genesis, nothing from Bastion and I've run that many many times with helpful guildies.

So you see, it's not an hour grind. It's been months. As I said before, randomness results in haves and have-nots. You're a 'have', good for you.

Thelmallen
07-27-2010, 11:15 AM
I dont understand these posts? Please fill me in.

How can you possibly have run these many Battlefield quests and not have enough plat to buy multiple sets of boots? It is impossible. The materials can be found on the AH for a reasonable price if you are looking.

Think about it? Even if you just vendor all the trash you pull, you should have plenty of plat.

As I mentioned in a previous post, I realize you can buy the ingreds from the AH. However, just running a couple of slayers and Shrouds is not going to buy you a set, man. Blood, iron, keepsake in Sarlona are around 300k pp each. Artifacts are a dime a dozen. Lucky me, the one ingredient presently in my bag is an artifact. So each set of boots is 900k+ pp. That's a big chunk of change. If you have four to six characters that need boots, you're talking over 3.5 million pp, 35 million gp. I don't care who you are, that's a lot of in-game dough.

Now, I could buy the ingredients for a set, maybe set and a half. I've been playing this game for a long time, I have some money saved up although I'm not a plat-farmer type nor am I frugal. If I need something, I'll buy it. However, this situation combines two factors: 1) I've disagreed with the 'double-flagging' system since they 'fixed' it in a mod after ToD was released; 2) It's not a little bit of money we're talking about here, 900k pp is a lot. So on the whole, I'm not interested in bankrupting all of my characters to pay for ingredient that they retroactively 'required' to run the high-end raid in the game.

Please understand that I'm not complaining about not being able to acquire ingredients. I could get them if I wanted to. I could buy 'em, guildies would trade them to me, buddies like Souper would just give them to me if I asked. The point of the OP was to suggest some alternatives to the boot ingredient grind for those who either can't afford the ingredients or aren't lucky enough to have a bunch of generous guildies and friends who would help them out.

Schmoe
07-27-2010, 11:38 AM
preception is reality. DT armor wasn't a grind for me either(well except on one toon). But I know it was/is for some people so I'm happy about the "Fix" that is coming soon. Just cause you or me pull ingred fairly easily doesn't mean all will. And trust me I'm sure multiple people have offered him Ingred(hell I did)....he's a prideful B@stard though.

My point in bringing up DT armor wasn't about the randomness of runes, or how long it takes to get the correct rune combination. My point is that the only way to get a DT rune is to run the quest and have it drop in a chest. You either run the quests, over and over and over until you get the right combination of runes, or you don't get DT armor. That is a grind.

With the boots, there are a lot of other options. Heck, you could get the boots without ever setting foot inside of an Amrath quest. That was my point. Yes, one option for getting the boots is to grind for them, but that's not the only option. So my opinion is that if you don't like the grind, you should choose one of the other options. Heck, you could run WW over and over and over until you get to 5th level, which woud be a grind, but you don't have to, so nobody considers getting to 5th level a grind.

A grind is a method, not a goal. If there are multiple methods to achieving a goal, then you can't say that getting to the goal requires a grind. In this case, the boots are a goal, and running Amrath quests over and over is the grind method.

soupertc
07-27-2010, 12:20 PM
A grind is a method, not a goal. If there are multiple methods to achieving a goal, then you can't say that getting to the goal requires a grind. In this case, the boots are a goal, and running Amrath quests over and over is the grind method.

umm I can call it whatever I wish it to be. I'm not intrested in a debate about semantics I'm intrested in helping Thel or a more casual player not having to shell out a Million Plat to run a raid either cause they don't want to,shouldn't have to or simply can't. I'm intrested in grouping with people I've never grouped with cause they can't join a "Boots Only" raid cause dumb@sses make people send a LINK that they have boots. I know some people who can't get boots maybe don't "belong" in the raid....but then again some people that got lucky or bought boots don't either.

dkyle
07-27-2010, 01:22 PM
Blood, iron, keepsake in Sarlona are around 300k pp each. Artifacts are a dime a dozen.

Interesting... on Khyber, Iron is pretty cheap, not much more than an Artifiact. I wonder why there's such a big difference between servers.

Eladiun
07-27-2010, 01:35 PM
umm I can call it whatever I wish it to be. I'm not intrested in a debate about semantics I'm intrested in helping Thel or a more casual player not having to shell out a Million Plat to run a raid either cause they don't want to,shouldn't have to or simply can't.


casual player != end-game raider

soupertc
07-27-2010, 01:46 PM
casual player != end-game raider

just cause someone has other things to do other than play DDO all day doesn't mean they can't contribute. And ToD aint end game to me anymore.

Xaearth
07-27-2010, 01:56 PM
casual player != end-game raider

Some of us casual players wouldn't be casual players if endgame character progression was remotely fun. :rolleyes:

Hell I've been playing runescape more than DDO lately, and that's just plain sad.

Eladiun
07-27-2010, 02:00 PM
just cause someone has other things to do other than play DDO all day doesn't mean they can't contribute. And ToD aint end game to me anymore.


I work a full-time job and own a house and have no trouble getting boots. Everything doesn't need a casual easy button. Working to achieve something used to make it more rewarding.

Xaearth
07-27-2010, 02:06 PM
I work a full-time job and own a house and have no trouble getting boots. Everything doesn't need a casual easy button. Working to achieve something used to make it more rewarding.

I'm unemployed, on disability, and have nothing better to do than sit around in front of a computer all day, and, grinding 3-4 characters off and on since Amrath was released, I still only have enough ingredients for a single pair of boots.

Work sounds about right. :rolleyes:

Eladiun
07-27-2010, 02:08 PM
I'm unemployed, on disability, and have nothing better to do than sit around in front of a computer all day, and, grinding 3-4 characters off and on since Amrath was released, I still only have enough ingredients for a single pair of boots.

Work sounds about right. :rolleyes:


Either you are doing it wrong or you are cursed. Since U5 the drop rate has been silly...try hard or elite rather than casual. ;)

Potvin
07-27-2010, 02:10 PM
Maybe it's just me, but I hate the idea that you have to grind your way into a raid, I'm thinking of you Abbot, Gianthold, and ToD (technically the boots aren't needed).

I understand making desirable items a grind (DT, GS), but not getting into a raid.

Couldn't agree more. Grinding requirements for Abbott and ToD boots were a source of major aggravation for me for weeks. It's bad enough the Abbott raid itself sucks, the only thing worse then it is the grind to be allowed to endure more lousy orchard content. If it werent feeling like I 'need' a LOTD for a couple characters, I'd never run it. As it is, I make sure I have nothing more fun to do when raid groups for it come up. I simply don't enjoy it at all.

Xaearth
07-27-2010, 02:15 PM
Either you are doing it wrong or you are cursed. Since U5 the drop rate has been silly...try hard or elite rather than casual.

I've ran casual once or twice total, solo on my Shadowmage to get a feel for the spawn/patrol patterns for stealth runs.

Done elite a couple of times... Frankly I'd rather farm Korthos quests for gold than run the Amrath flagging quests on elite with a PUG again.

Done hard probably only a few less times than normal.

soupertc
07-27-2010, 02:18 PM
I work a full-time job and own a house and have no trouble getting boots. Everything doesn't need a casual easy button. Working to achieve something used to make it more rewarding.

shouldn't you be working an not posting then? :)!! I don't think adding mandatory drops in chest or even end rewards is an "Easy Button". I'm not preaching cause I don't have em...I got set on several toons. I don't look at is as a negative...we will just have to agree to disagree I guess.

Eladiun
07-27-2010, 02:21 PM
shouldn't you be working an not posting then? :)!! I don't think adding mandatory drops in chest or even end rewards is an "Easy Button". I'm not preaching cause I don't have em...I got set on several toons. I don't look at is as a negative...we will just have to agree to disagree I guess.


Jealous... I post between builds or when bored or whenever. It's good to be the Sys Admin. Point being the made it a ton easier less than a month ago and AH prices are already trending down accordingly. Jumping in another change is totally unnecessary at this point.

Schmoe
07-27-2010, 03:53 PM
umm I can call it whatever I wish it to be. I'm not intrested in a debate about semantics I'm intrested in helping Thel or a more casual player not having to shell out a Million Plat to run a raid either cause they don't want to,shouldn't have to or simply can't.

So you are saying that the available options (run quests, trade with friends, buy from AH) are too difficult, and the devs should make it easier for people to get into the penultimate raid in the game. Why have flagging at all? Why not just let people into the raid?

I disagree. For my part, I ran a few quests, got a few ingredients, and a guild-mate gave me the ones I was missing. I had checked out the AH and was prepared to buy the ones I was missing, but it turned out I didn't need to. I'm a fairly casual player, maybe 1 hour a night or so, 5-6 nights a week. The money was not an object for me.

Now that I have boots, any ingredients I get will go to other guildmates who don't have their own boots yet. Drop rates have gone up. Ingredient prices are coming down. Elite quests drop more than lower difficulty, and you can run within your guild if you don't like pugs.

It's not unreasonable to expect a 20th level character to shell out 400k platinum as an alternative for getting into a raid. Heck, most people can make that money in a couple weeks of questing.


I'm intrested in grouping with people I've never grouped with cause they can't join a "Boots Only" raid cause dumb@sses make people send a LINK that they have boots. I know some people who can't get boots maybe don't "belong" in the raid....but then again some people that got lucky or bought boots don't either.

Boots aren't even a requirement for the raid. Start your own groups, and then you can group with the people who have flagged but don't have boots. Tell the people who require a LINK that they're being ridiculous and to live a little. Stop relying so much on other people for your enjoyment.

Thelmallen
07-27-2010, 03:59 PM
For my part, I ran a few quests, got a few ingredients,

Your experience is not typical.


It's not unreasonable to expect a 20th level character to shell out 400k platinum as an alternative for getting into a raid.

On Sarlona, 400k might buy you a Demon's Blood. There are some on the AH today for around 300k, some for over 400k.

If you re-read the OP you'll understand that this isn't about making an 'easy button' for ToD, it's about making the raid more available for people who just can't seem to acquire ingredients.

Schmoe
07-27-2010, 04:03 PM
Your experience is not typical.

Actually, it is pretty typical among the people I play with. I've never heard anyone complaining about boots the same way they complain about grinding Shroud, or grinding for DT armor, or grinding for a Bloodstone, or anything else, really.

I'm not sure why the difference, as I'm not a hard-core player.



On Sarlona, 400k might buy you a Demon's Blood. There are some on the AH today for around 300k, some for over 400k.

If you re-read the OP you'll understand that this isn't about making an 'easy button' for ToD, it's about making the raid more available for people who just can't seem to acquire ingredients.

I guess it varies from server to server. On Khyber, that's far from the norm. I could trade 4 large devil scales for a complete set of boot ingredients in a heartbeat. Is there nothing else that's valuable on Sarlona?

Vynnt
07-27-2010, 04:06 PM
I've ran casual once or twice total, solo on my Shadowmage to get a feel for the spawn/patrol patterns for stealth runs.

Done elite a couple of times... Frankly I'd rather farm Korthos quests for gold than run the Amrath flagging quests on elite with a PUG again.

Done hard probably only a few less times than normal.

Even on Elite, Wrath of Flame is a breeze.

Having boots isn't a requirement for our ToDs. As long as the key people have boots (which they do), we don't mind. If you put in all the work in the raid and get banished at the end, it's your own fault :p

Thelmallen
07-27-2010, 04:15 PM
I guess it varies from server to server. On Khyber, that's far from the norm. I could trade 4 large devil scales for a complete set of boot ingredients in a heartbeat. Is there nothing else that's valuable on Sarlona?

4 large devil scales on Sarlona would get you nearly 2million pp, a princely sum for boot ingredients. You could certainly buy the ingredients individually for a lot less than that.

Again, this is about making the ToD raid more available for people that have difficulty acquiring ingredients. While I understand that you and your buddies pulled ingredients right and left when you were farming for them, that is not the experience of a lot of the people that play this game. See the previous posts in this thread for more information.

Cyr
07-27-2010, 04:17 PM
This complaint is a little too late out the gate. It is much easier to get ingredients then it used to be. Wrath of Flame dropping ingredients is flooding the market with farmed ingredients and will continue to do so.

I ran my gimp through the flags last week. Glanced in a few of my ingredient bags (didn't even bother checking them all) and was short an artifact. Bought it off the AH for 15K PP...

The most expensive ingredient at worst costs 1 Large Scale.

Fomori
07-27-2010, 04:30 PM
A couple of definitions for 'grind' based on the world dictionary.

7. to produce in a routine or uninspired manner (ie. he ground out his weekly article for the paper)
8. to continue to play in a dull or insipid manner (ie. the band only ground out old tunes all evening)
9. to instil (facts, information, etc) by persistent effort (ie. they ground into the recruits the need for vigilance)
10. informal ( intr ) to study or work laboriously.

Just for those that dont think its grind, to understand where the others are coming from. If its dull, insipid, routine, OR uninspired to them then they can use grind...


/popcorn_on

moops
07-27-2010, 04:43 PM
I know some people who can't get boots maybe don't "belong" in the raid....but then again some people that got lucky or bought boots don't either.

This is where I am torn. . .I got talked into healing a TOD yesterday that was mostly pugs, and tho it did go OK-3 or 4 people did not listen to directions in the first part and took so much damage it was crazy, in part 3 people did not listen, people took more damage than they should've, and some Ranged Rogue kept using Solid Fog clickies despite the caster dispelling them every time.

I literally saw 3 players that I would not let into a pug I lead in the future, yet they had boots. .. I've also joined some crazy bad TOD pugs recently, like I can't believe that lvl 20 people can be that bad at listening to the leader's directions and not dying. I bet more than a couple of these people ran the 4 quests on casual and just bought or traded for their boot ingreds. . .cuz really, even the most unexperienced players can get into shrouds and run them til ransack, and get either the money or ingredients to trade...


So for the most part, I think that people having to do the quests more than once is a good thing--I might even go as far to say that people should not be able to flag on Casual--Casters have a better idea of what works on the trash, melee have a better Idea of either AC threshold, or how to reduce the damage that they take--and if people are running these quests with other people, they listen to directions better--all the Amrath quests are easier to solo than run with others except for Genesis.

As someone who has good luck with ingredient pulls, I like that a couple are harder to get--As a healer, I like that newer players for the most part have to run these quests a few times, because then maybe they know what weapons and tactics to use. I like to make money, and to have good items for trade.

Also, on Sarlona I have picked up Iron and Keepsakes pretty cheap, there is some luck and knowing what time to hit the AH. . .Sure some of them are listed for some outrageous prices, but you can get Iron for less than 90K and keepsakes for less than 150k. ..I tend to buy up the Irons as I do not solo quests that drop that--and then I always have ingreds to give to people who just need one more piece for boots.

Thelmallen
07-27-2010, 04:43 PM
This complaint is a little too late out the gate. It is much easier to get ingredients then it used to be. Wrath of Flame dropping ingredients is flooding the market with farmed ingredients and will continue to do so.

I ran my gimp through the flags last week. Glanced in a few of my ingredient bags (didn't even bother checking them all) and was short an artifact. Bought it off the AH for 15K PP...

The most expensive ingredient at worst costs 1 Large Scale.

It's not a complaint, Cyr, it's a list of suggestions. The only thing that I'm seeing 'flooding the market' on Sarlona are artifacts. Sixty pages of ingredients on the AH today showed four or six bloods, one iron and no keepsakes.

soupertc
07-27-2010, 04:59 PM
So you are saying that the available options (run quests, trade with friends, buy from AH) are too difficult, and the devs should make it easier for people to get into the penultimate raid in the game. Why have flagging at all? Why not just let people into the raid?




Boots aren't even a requirement for the raid. Start your own groups, and then you can group with the people who have flagged but don't have boots. Tell the people who require a LINK that they're being ridiculous and to live a little. Stop relying so much on other people for your enjoyment.

I undrrstand your points....trust me I do. But like a dog chasing it's tail we can go about this all day. One thing though....my enjoyment of the game doesn't rely on other people...that made me laugh pretty hard :).

soupertc
07-27-2010, 05:21 PM
As someone who has good luck with ingredient pulls, I like that a couple are harder to get--As a healer, I like that newer players for the most part have to run these quests a few times, because then maybe they know what weapons and tactics to use. I like to make money, and to have good items for trade.



I'm in the same boat as you Moops. Getting the stuff wasn't hard for me either.....I think some of the people replying to my threads think I'm some poor sap down on his luck like our friend Thel!!! But I do know that if Thel takes the time to post something most of the time it's not some rant....he's a pretty relaxed dude(for someone with a crappy internet connection it's amamzing!!!).

herzkos
07-27-2010, 05:42 PM
It's not as bad as the Gianthold relic grind, but it's pretty close.

IMO the drop rates should be 100% when the flagging quests are run on Elite. Casual, normal and hard, sure, keep them low. But if you can do a full flagging tour on elite - you've earned boots, IMO.

when i first read the above quote, I was all for it. After further review:
respectfully, you missed the boat. the issue is about the grind and casual/non-power gamers difficulty
in getting the materials needed.
Making the mats drop more often (or guaranteed for a full flagging tour) on elite kinda defeats the purpose
of the OP's request. Folks who are having difficulty grinding out the ingredients aren't likely to be running
the flagging quests on elite anyway. This suggestion would just serve to increase the distance between
the haves and the have-nots.

Thelmallen
07-27-2010, 05:57 PM
...he's a pretty relaxed dude(for someone with a crappy internet connection it's amamzing!!!).

Catch me in the afternoon after downing a Red Bull and see how relaxed I am!

And for you information, my internet connection has been much much better of late. All I did was move to the other side of the house (and it's not even a big house) and now I hardly ever get lag spikes. Muhaahahahahahahaha!!

Schmoe
07-27-2010, 07:02 PM
I undrrstand your points....trust me I do. But like a dog chasing it's tail we can go about this all day.

True, true. I think I'll spare you all another heartfelt treatise and simply summarize by saying that I disagree. ;)


One thing though....my enjoyment of the game doesn't rely on other people...that made me laugh pretty hard :).

Well, as long as that holds true, I think there's hope for you yet :)

Folonius
07-28-2010, 08:20 AM
If you re-read the OP you'll understand that this isn't about making an 'easy button' for ToD, it's about making the raid more available for people who just can't seem to acquire ingredients.

IMO, if they can't acquire the ingredients, they're doing it wrong.

soupertc
07-28-2010, 09:16 AM
IMO, if they can't acquire the ingredients, they're doing it wrong.

that was deep.....did it take ya most of a minute to come up with that gem?

Thelmallen
07-28-2010, 10:21 AM
IMO, if they can't acquire the ingredients, they're doing it wrong.

With posts like that, I see why your rep is disabled.

Go troll someone else's thread.

mws2970
07-28-2010, 10:26 AM
IMO, if they can't acquire the ingredients, they're doing it wrong.

So running the quest to completion multiple times is "doing it wrong"? Please tell us how to "do it right" then.

Delt
07-28-2010, 11:26 AM
With posts like that, I see why your rep is disabled.

Go troll someone else's thread.

Why? It's true. I was too lazy to read this whole thread, but I am sure this has already been said...

As far as grinds go (all MMOs gotta have grinds), boot ingrediants are pretty easy. I had the majority of my boots made prior to both the Wrath-chest fix and the increased ingrediant drop -- and I have no luck.

Even if your luck sucks and you get zero ingrediants for 20-30 runs of amarth content, you've definitely made the plat to buy what you need (prices are dropping consistently). And what is more, boots are not even REQUIRED, so if you are both too cheap AND too lazy to get your boots, join a group that will adjust tactics (ie: let you kill orthons). Or form your own group.

I am happy to argue for convienence (ie: npc teleport to Titan) or criticize terrible grinds (DT armor)....but boot ingreds? Please, gimme a break...

Thelmallen
07-28-2010, 11:51 AM
Why? It's true. I was too lazy to read this whole thread, but I am sure this has already been said...

As far as grinds go (all MMOs gotta have grinds), boot ingrediants are pretty easy. I had the majority of my boots made prior to both the Wrath-chest fix and the increased ingrediant drop -- and I have no luck.

Even if your luck sucks and you get zero ingrediants for 20-30 runs of amarth content, you've definitely made the plat to buy what you need (prices are dropping consistently). And what is more, boots are not even REQUIRED, so if you are both too cheap AND too lazy to get your boots, join a group that will adjust tactics (ie: let you kill orthons). Or form your own group.

I am happy to argue for convienence (ie: npc teleport to Titan) or criticize terrible grinds (DT armor)....but boot ingreds? Please, gimme a break...

Hi. Welcome.

Forum courtesy: read thread then post.

All of your points have been addressed in previous posts.

Delt
07-28-2010, 11:57 AM
Hi. Welcome.

Forum courtesy: read thread then post.

All of your points have been addressed in previous posts.

Doesn't really matter if they've been responded to or not, it doesn't change the validity of my points. Your Hi welcome/forum courtesy point is stupidily self serving as well, as I admitted I wasn't going to read the whole thread...nor do I need to in order to reply to the OP. :rolleyes:

Edit: And I read the whole thread, none of these arguements were countered by you. At best you covered your ears and said "lalalala, your own experiences don't matter". Bottomline, boots aren't much of a grind...nor are they even required. If you want optional gear easier and for less work/plat, complain all you want. Just don't be surprised when people disagree.

Thelmallen
07-28-2010, 01:21 PM
Doesn't really matter if they've been responded to or not, it doesn't change the validity of my points. Your Hi welcome/forum courtesy point is stupidily self serving as well, as I admitted I wasn't going to read the whole thread...nor do I need to in order to reply to the OP. :rolleyes:

Edit: And I read the whole thread, none of these arguements were countered by you. At best you covered your ears and said "lalalala, your own experiences don't matter". Bottomline, boots aren't much of a grind...nor are they even required. If you want optional gear easier and for less work/plat, complain all you want. Just don't be surprised when people disagree.


And it's not that I don't care but posting your experiences of pulling all your boot ingredients for your entire complement of characters in one afternoon last week is not contributing to the thread.


I realize that the intent is to encourage people to run the Battlefield quests. However, the unfortunate reality is those people are largely excluded from running the raid if they don't have boots. I don't know how it goes on the other servers but on Sarlona, a LFM for ToD generally includes the words "Must have boots".

And that's my beef with this raid 'flagging' mechanism. Take out the random, make us do our work and get our results. I have no problem flagging for raids. I have no problem running Vale quests to acquire ingredients for items I choose to build. I do have a problem slogging my way through mobs of CR19 Orthons and Barbazu for 20-30 minutes to earn a 3-5% chance at pulling one of four pieces of a recipe that is now essentially required by the gaming community to run the highest-level non-epic raid.


And a 3-5% drop rate on a 4-ingredeint recipe is a grind for most people. Sounds like it isn't for you but for most people it is.

320k pp for blood (what it's been on Sarlona recently) is expensive, btw, especially if you have to cough up as much for two of the other three ingredients. That's nearly 1 million pp for each set of boots. That's a lot, no matter who you are.

C'mon now, if you think you're going to get 900k plat to buy a set of boots on Sarlona by running the Amrath quests, you're just being ridiculous.


Please understand that I'm not complaining about not being able to acquire ingredients. I could get them if I wanted to. I could buy 'em, guildies would trade them to me, buddies like Souper would just give them to me if I asked. The point of the OP was to suggest some alternatives to the boot ingredient grind for those who either can't afford the ingredients or aren't lucky enough to have a bunch of generous guildies and friends who would help them out.


Again, this is about making the ToD raid more available for people that have difficulty acquiring ingredients. While I understand that you and your buddies pulled ingredients right and left when you were farming for them, that is not the experience of a lot of the people that play this game. See the previous posts in this thread for more information.


It's not a complaint, Cyr, it's a list of suggestions. The only thing that I'm seeing 'flooding the market' on Sarlona are artifacts. Sixty pages of ingredients on the AH today showed four or six bloods, one iron and no keepsakes.

sacredtheory
07-28-2010, 01:34 PM
Doesn't really matter if they've been responded to or not, it doesn't change the validity of my points. Your Hi welcome/forum courtesy point is stupidily self serving as well, as I admitted I wasn't going to read the whole thread...nor do I need to in order to reply to the OP. :rolleyes:

Edit: And I read the whole thread, none of these arguements were countered by you. At best you covered your ears and said "lalalala, your own experiences don't matter". Bottomline, boots aren't much of a grind...nor are they even required. If you want optional gear easier and for less work/plat, complain all you want. Just don't be surprised when people disagree.

Wrong, for some people boots are a grind, that's the main point. We've run dozens upon dozens of Amrath quests with no ingredient drops. On my server purchasing all the ingredients would be 1.5 million plat. Every time I see a ToD LFM, it states "have boots". So what's left, start my own group? Right. I'll make sure to post in my LFM: "ToD raid, I don't have boots, need a guide"

Delt
07-28-2010, 01:42 PM
lalalala, I'm not listening. Your experiences and opinion don't matter.

You don't need to reinforce my point.


C'mon now, if you think you're going to get 900k plat to buy a set of boots on Sarlona by running the Amrath quests, you're just being ridiculous.

Then run the shroud for ingreds. Or farm icy kits. Or any other plat-drowning opportunity (of which there are many).

You want to come up with numerous excuses why you (and "casual players") can't get boots. Bad luck, have a job, not enough plat, etc... Sorry optional loot doesn't fly in your lap without some measure of effort :(


Wrong, for some people boots are a grind, that's the main point. We've run dozens upon dozens of Amrath quests with no ingredient drops. On my server purchasing all the ingredients would be 1.5 million plat. Every time I see a ToD LFM, it states "have boots". So what's left, start my own group? Right. I'll make sure to post in my LFM: "ToD raid, I don't have boots, need a guide"

Between Arameel & Aramilius, you've completed 4 Amarath quests since May 1st. I am so sorry you do not have multiple sets of boots yet. Your luck (or lack thereof) is horrendous and actually makes me weep for you.

God bless my.ddo :rolleyes:

sacredtheory
07-28-2010, 02:19 PM
Between Arameel & Aramilius, you've completed 4 Amarath quests since May 1st. I am so sorry you do not have multiple sets of boots yet. Your luck (or lack thereof) is horrendous and actually makes me weep for you.

God bless my.ddo :rolleyes:

Yeah, and we all know how accurate MyDDO is ;-)

toughguyjoe
07-28-2010, 06:03 PM
Le Sigh.


I'll say it again.

"The amount of players experiencing lack of Boots Ingredients due to Grinding low drop rates unsuccessfully needs to be more than someone just saying "A lot of us". There needs to be some accountability of how many players CANNOT make boots AT ALL in their experience. If this number is high enough to be alarming(In my oppinion 20% or more) then the system needs further changes."

Now. Can anyone get figures for us to look at? Doubtful. All we have is the evidence we have seen on our respective servers.

On Argonnessen there seems to be no shortage of boot ingredients dropping, as pretty much all medium and up sized guilds are running the raid. Many of these guilds pug out spots, and don't seem to have problems filling them.

This information IN FACT adds to the thread, as this information is incredibly valuable to determine whether the boot ingredient system is in fact faulty and needs another overhaul.

:D

xxScoobyDooxx
07-28-2010, 06:17 PM
Are you serious, Fluffy? Did you even read my OP? Did you read the dozen-plus responses where people who have the bad luck like me have chimed in?

No, it DOES NOT TAKE AN HOUR to grind for boot ingredients, it just doesn't. Not for everyone. Maybe for you but you are not everyone. I've ran Wrath 30+ times in the past two weeks and pulled nothing, not one single ingredient. Ten or so runs through Shipment yielded the same results. And this is just recently--does not include all of the runs through Shipment I did and solo'd before I took a 4 month break due to the grind. I think I ransacked that Shipment chest twice each on my battle bard and ranger back then. I got an artifact from a guild run through Invasion but that's it. Nothing from Genesis, nothing from Bastion and I've run that many many times with helpful guildies.

So you see, it's not an hour grind. It's been months. As I said before, randomness results in haves and have-nots. You're a 'have', good for you.

Did you read my post ... you haven't responded .... I asked did you run solo or in a group ..... although I gloated about my Devouts, I did have a serious question that could help everyone.

It looked like a full party had a huge increase in drop rate than a 2 person party. We 2 person ground for weeks with zero success. One night with 6 people in party and 4 Devouts drop in 8 runs. Luck maybe but please answer the question. Are you alone or in a group of 6?

moops
07-28-2010, 06:33 PM
Did you read my post ... you haven't responded .... I asked did you run solo or in a group ..... although I gloated about my Devouts but I had a serious question that could help everyone.

It looked like a full party had a huge increase in drop rate than a 2 person party. We 2 person ground for weeks with zero success. One night with 6 people in party and 4 Devouts drop in 8 runs. Luck maybe but please answer the question. Are you alone or in a group of 6?

I will say that it seems that in at least Bastion, Full Groups seem to have highly increased drop rates, Ive been in groups where everyone got a blood--I ve been in groups where me and another person got 2 bloods in one run. Soloing tho, I've never pulled 2.

I do agree tho, that if people are really running these quests even 20 times--they should be making money--I don't just solo sins for the Keepsake, I do it for the larges that drop that I can then put on the AH. Even without a large ingredient drop or extra chest--I average two 16k weapons a run ( so around 250 K for 20 runs off higher priced trash alone ) plus I seem to pull some tasty goodies like AC 8 Bracers, incredible handwraps, etc--that I can sell on the AH. And all the other vendor trash adds up.

But perhaps people spend their money faster than it comes in.

I think that anyone who even just takes 10 mins to list stuff on the AH, can make money--I made 400K yesterday selling mostly small and medium ingredients which we all know we have a ton of--and then another 300K in larges. I dont even run shroud as much as I used to--I see some people ransacking it on multiple alts, that complain about not having boots.

stainer
08-02-2010, 08:34 AM
So far I'm about 0/30 on boot ingredients. . . While I don't mind running the content. . .It is rather hard to get groups for, and I'd like at least some measure that I'm making progress . . . small shards of devil keepsakes that can be crafted into an average devil's keepsake . . . 20th completion guarantees of ingredients. . something.

Yer a monk fer gods sake. You can solo Wrath of Flame and get the demons blood.