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theSanchez
07-21-2010, 08:07 PM
Many people (including myself) have longed for the Druid class. O am making this thread to compile all the information we have a avialable and to discuss it's role in a party. But I can't do it on my own. That's why I need you and all out fellow forumers to assist me. Until its release, this thread will be a rough draft. If you know something, I will add it.

What we know:

Due sometime in 2011. (update 11 at earliest)
Druids can heal, cast offensive Arcane spells, and have Wildshape.
They would most likely worship Gods in a way the FvS do
Access to Martial Weapon, but cannot wear metal armor. (One god does allow it though)
Could possibly be based in upcoming House T(forgot full name. Threshrak?) along with Half-orcs
There will be Wildshape

Symar-FangofLloth
07-21-2010, 08:47 PM
It wouldn't be 8; even updates are adventures only.
So we're looking at 9 at the earliest.
However, they said more along the lines of 'the end of the year', so I'd expect it to be more like U13 or U15.
If at all.

As for a Druid's role in the party? We can look to tabletop for that answer.

They get Cure spells, Heal, and other restorative spells, albeit at often delayed spell levels from a Cleric. This will allow them to be a healer, although with the same sp pool as a Cleric and higher sp costs, it'll be tough for them. Still better than a bard. They'll have to spend slots to get the spells, like a FvS, but can swap out at any shrine, so it's not much of an issue.

They get control spells, and also get Wall of Fire and Finger of Death. These will let them fill a CC/Nuker/Instadeath roll, similar to an Arcane caster. Have a Bard in your party for the Arcane Buffs, and you won't need a Sorc or Wiz. However, again, they get the spells at later levels, and so they'll be at higher costs.

They get Shapechanging/Wildshape. This, if implemented properly, will allow a Druid to enter into a heavy melee mode of some sort. Coupled with a 3/4 BAB, a moderate weapon list, and plenty of buff spells, they should be able to perform a melee role very well; better than a Cleric, and similar to or better than a Favored Soul.


So like any other divine caster, they have a myriad of options.

theSanchez
07-21-2010, 09:38 PM
Removing Natural spell wouldn't exactly gimp them.
Wildshape could have problems. This is why Wizards don't have Polymorph.

If DDO Druids are goinng to be the same as PnP Druids, other classes could become obsolete compared to a self-healing, firewall flinging bear.

Chai
07-21-2010, 09:40 PM
Try: Druids due in MOD 2...

/ducks

Symar-FangofLloth
07-21-2010, 09:45 PM
Removing Natural spell wouldn't exactly gimp them.
Wildshape could have problems. This is why Wizards don't have Polymorph.

If DDO Druids are goinng to be the same as PnP Druids, other classes could become obsolete compared to a self-healing, firewall flinging bear.

Unless you can't do all three at once.
I think having no Natural Spell would be the way to go; but they do need a way to cancel out of the form.

And once they get Wildshape down, unless they go with the PHB2 alternative (which I wouldn't mind), I could foresee Polymorph coming into play.
At least, perhaps, as an offensive spell.

MyersVandalay
07-21-2010, 09:48 PM
you would have to largely question if wall of fire will be likely to go on druids in DDO, might be alot more broken in that situation (considering in P&P wall of fire wasn't really a major damage spell, for the most part druids did not get any of the main damage spells, due to the brokenness that that would allow. I would imagine wildshape will probably be more akin to it's WoW form, or perhaps 3.5's PHB2 variant where the forms were more or less bonuses to stats rather then raw changes of them, similar to monk stances almost.

Angelus_dead
07-21-2010, 09:54 PM
I think having no Natural Spell would be the way to go
A common modification is to change Natural Spell into a metamagic, so that you can still cast as an animal but it's more costly.

theSanchez
07-21-2010, 09:58 PM
Wildshape was confirmed in an interview that can be found at gamebanshee.com

Diyon
07-21-2010, 10:06 PM
Druids can heal, cast offensive Arcane spells, and have Wildshape.


That would be offensive Divine spells. Druids are a divine caster not arcane.

Absolute-Omniscience
07-21-2010, 10:11 PM
If DDO Druids are goinng to be the same as PnP Druids, other classes could become obsolete compared to a self-healing, firewall flinging bear.

Blade barrier says hello. Aka the superior version of firewall.

Druids will be fun though.

bunitchu
07-23-2010, 01:45 AM
That would be offensive Divine spells. Druids are a divine caster not arcane.

yes they are divine casters, but their spell list hase some arcane stuff, such as FoD, firewall, etc..

Xyzima
07-23-2010, 01:54 AM
i think playing them will be fun but the Devs will completely mess up what 3.5 druids are..

AND THEY SHOULD GET ANIMAL COMPANION!

IN PnP. the DRUIDS. not rangers. animal companion is quite a beast(no pun intended) thats mostly due to all the options druids get to pick from, in pnp.

Maybe if the implement more animals into the game they could make animal companion similar to the Rangers of Guild Wars. Go out and charm it. and it follows you around in instances, and levels as you do.

Diyon
07-23-2010, 10:05 AM
yes they are divine casters, but their spell list hase some arcane stuff, such as FoD, firewall, etc..

Except they are just as much divine spells, just that DDO has no caster that can cast them as divine spells as of yet. Resist Energy can be cast by divine and arcane casters, that doesn't make it one or the other, its both outside of the context of the caster. Same with CLW, which bards can cast. Bards still cast only arcane spells. Every spell a druid casts counts as and is a divine spell.

Symar-FangofLloth
07-23-2010, 08:52 PM
you would have to largely question if wall of fire will be likely to go on druids in DDO, might be alot more broken in that situation (considering in P&P wall of fire wasn't really a major damage spell, for the most part druids did not get any of the main damage spells, due to the brokenness that that would allow.

Right.
But how well is a Firewall going to be without any Enhancement boosts?
Sure, there's still items and metamagics, but having to rely on an item to get crits and missing that +40% (or whatever it is) that sorc/wiz gets...

Diyon
07-23-2010, 11:15 PM
Right.
But how well is a Firewall going to be without any Enhancement boosts?
Sure, there's still items and metamagics, but having to rely on an item to get crits and missing that +40% (or whatever it is) that sorc/wiz gets...

You know, I'm okay with that. Not being as good, but not being as good as one of the most useful midgame spells is not bad at all.

KKDragonLord
07-23-2010, 11:26 PM
i think playing them will be fun but the Devs will completely mess up what 3.5 druids are..

AND THEY SHOULD GET ANIMAL COMPANION!

IN PnP. the DRUIDS. not rangers. animal companion is quite a beast(no pun intended) thats mostly due to all the options druids get to pick from, in pnp.

Maybe if the implement more animals into the game they could make animal companion similar to the Rangers of Guild Wars. Go out and charm it. and it follows you around in instances, and levels as you do.

Except that in high levels of PnP the companion usually becomes a hassle and a liability more than really an asset.

I still want them though (and they damn better kick ass).

richieelias27
07-27-2010, 09:39 AM
Here is what I see happening:

Wildshape - for 5 minutes you cannot cast spells, have poor melee DPS, a new poorer stat distribution, and lower AC

Elementalshape - same as above but with the proper elemental immunity.

Aside from that should have all the proper druid spells (the real draw), will likely have a somewhat decent animal companion (with the option of taking a feat to buff it up some), and will get an extra spell slot containing either the current summon I-IX line, or a new summon animal I-IX much as the cleric has the free slot devoted to cure spells.

All in all not bad and probably a very valuable addition to parties just for the druid spells alone.

The shapeshifting is likely to be completely worthless though. In fact I seem them borking it up somehow by making you spend AP on it.

Diyon
07-27-2010, 11:08 AM
Wildshape - for 5 minutes you cannot cast spells, have poor melee DPS, a new poorer stat distribution, and lower AC


While I'll hope for it to be better on that, lower AC makes no sense, half the time you wild shape in PnP you increase your ac, not mention if you had wild armor on.

Angelus_dead
07-27-2010, 12:24 PM
Sure, there's still items and metamagics, but having to rely on an item to get crits and missing that +40% (or whatever it is) that sorc/wiz gets...
The DDO Druid will probably get an enhancement series that gives +40% to both Fire and Lightning damage.

(If it were up to me I'd stop it at 30%)

Calebro
07-27-2010, 12:38 PM
The DDO Druid will probably get an enhancement series that gives +40% to both Fire and Lightning damage.

(If it were up to me I'd stop it at 30%)

They will probably get this, yes. They will also probably get a healing enhancement line. They will also probably get wildshape enhancing lines similar to a Barb's rage enhancing lines. They will also probably get all summon spells automatically, similar to Clerics and healing spells.

Angelus_dead
07-27-2010, 12:51 PM
They will also probably get all summon spells automatically, similar to Clerics and healing spells.
Well, the Druids will get Summon Nature Ally 1-9, not Summon Monster.

hityawithastick
07-27-2010, 12:58 PM
Am I the only one who reads "Summon Nature's Ally IX" as "DINOSAURS!" or is that just a quirk of mine?

shortdevils
07-27-2010, 07:48 PM
Am I the only one who reads "Summon Nature's Ally IX" as "DINOSAURS!" or is that just a quirk of mine?

welli was thinking dragons

jmelanie7
07-27-2010, 08:00 PM
welli was thinking dragons

... dragons are not animals ...

EDIT: fixed a typo.

richieelias27
07-28-2010, 09:50 AM
The DDO Druid will probably get an enhancement series that gives +40% to both Fire and Lightning damage.

(If it were up to me I'd stop it at 30%)

Since every casting class' damage/healing enhancements are the exact same increments and caps, I would see it as a big "eff you" if they gave druids any less just for being druids.

Diyon
07-28-2010, 10:42 AM
Since every casting class' damage/healing enhancements are the exact same increments and caps, I would see it as a big "eff you" if they gave druids any less just for being druids.

Druids are people too!

Rakion
07-28-2010, 11:08 AM
I could definately see them with natures ally, freedom of movement, some elemental resistance/immunity enhancements, and i had figured wildshape would be much like a combo of tensers transformation and shroud of the wraith or lich (click one of your animal options to turn it on, lose spell casting, become much beefier in the fighting department, or faster, make each selection different based on the animal, and give some choices of which animals you'd allow them to become. or you could have it cast like one of the resistance spells, and have them pick which animal they choose as opposed to which element they chose to be protected from.) Healing spells at a higher cost and at delayed levels sounds perfect, and I would also allow firewall, just at a higher level as well, perhaps 6th... I wouldnt allow finger of death, necromancy doesnt seem like an integral part of the druid mythos. I would consider adding a new spell or two (entangle was always a classic, basically same game mechanics as web, but in a radius, and have it look all planty), goodberry(see below), flaming sword... (a flaming scimitar that does extra damage dice and has better enhancement bonuses based on level), Elemental forms could be cool at higher levels, maybe in a heirophant druid prestige class... Melee capabilities as a rogue or cleric would be a good idea, though i'd allow simple weapons, and add a proficiency in the scimitar ala tabletop. I would definately outlaw warforged as a race option, but outside of that, spell choices seem pretty common sense if you have enough knowledge of the handbooks. Perhaps allow them to take on 'aspects of the beast' making spells where they can add animal features temporarily, ala bulls strength, but more visible (give them a cool set of horns for a bull charge, or like one huge arm and give them a 'gorrilla grip'... totally just crapping out ideas at this point. you could even let them have something like 'goodberry' if i recall the spell correctly, to be able to make temporary healing potions that they could carry around (x amount of game hours per level before they disappear from your inventory). They'd be able to do a variety of things, but in a mode like this, they wouldnt outbalance any 1 class. they wouldnt hit like a fighter, heal like a cleric, sing like a bard, (though some enchantment spells would work well for them), disarm like a rogue, but they could do many things, much like a bard, and fill alot of gaps if the party is missing one of the core classes. A build like the one I've kinda spurted out above i would feel would be a welcome addition to a party I was in, and honestly, I'd love to try to play it myself. It sounds like fun. (sorry for the ramble, I just really got into the idea.)

Racyon

Xeriphim
07-28-2010, 11:42 AM
Since we've been waiting for Druids since 2006 ... I'd love to see the class finally arrive in ddo . The spell lists for druids Should contain a dedicated spell slot for summon animal . However as a general guideline to what types of spells a Druid could have , take a look at the ranger spell lists from spell levels 1 -4 . I'd figure that would be simular to the first few spells druids would gain access too . Move firewall to a 5th level spell for druids .

With the soon to be released Red Fens area , maybe add in some plant charming spells etc , akin to druids only . Due to ddo mechanics restrict druids to light armor an light shields / bucklers . Yes there is some metal armor an shield types in there but I don't see turbine coding Druids to only allow so few choices ... For weapons give them the simple weapons list as already mentioned with scimitar proff . Tho given the lore and ancient age of the khopesh you could also easily state a case for giving druids khopesh proff ... Maybe make it like the favored soul weapon spec's ... based on religion which weapon proff specialization the druid would get . Sickle , scimitar , Khopesh , quarter staff etc all could fit into that .

I'd give the druids the same mana pools of clerics / wizards . an the 3/4 bab that clerics fvs , monks have . the usual D8 for hit dice / level . Spells would come 1 level later then there casting counter parts would gain . while new spells druid only would be available at earlier levels to compensate . Like maybe a low level heal spell like good berry , or perhaps going outside the box a bit an maybe give druids heal over time regen style of healing focus . A short immediate direct heal up front followed by an x amount per tick heal over a 10 or 15 second time ...

Wild shape Maybe limit it to being able to shift into an animal equal to your summon animal spell(s) your capable of casting , with bigger bonuses then what the companion summoned offers .

You could even go a little further an change druid rez spells into reincarnation spells where a fallen companion is raised but for a period of time there a dog or a cat or other such animal before they return to normal with the benefit of no death penalty ... just the animal form penalty instead .

Enhancements you could have druids given a three way option . One that focuses more on shapechanging . one for offensive casting , an one for healing focus . Giving the player the option to mix it up or go heavy into one of the three main focuses .

Diyon
07-28-2010, 11:49 AM
If they let the druids do elemental wildshape, being an earth elemental with earthgrab is going to be fun.

Angelus_dead
07-28-2010, 12:35 PM
Since every casting class' damage/healing enhancements are the exact same increments and caps, I would see it as a big "eff you" if they gave druids any less just for being druids.
Yes, some players might get that impression.

The developer motivation to restrict Druids to 30% Life Magic and Fire/Lightning damage would be to compensate for them being a lot more damaging and survivable in melee thanks to Wildshape. (It would also serve to maintain the D&D rules of Druids being worse at healing than Clerics, as the +1 spell level isn't as obstructive in a mana system)

der_kluge
07-28-2010, 12:51 PM
Druids will be fairly complex to implement.

Given the content of the game, if you look at what the developers have to pull from as far as existing animations, a druid would be able to currently transform into a bat, dog, hyena, cat and a wolf. With minor variations for each. Those are the only “animals” in the game. In D&D terms, scorpions, rats and spiders are vermin. Though arguably, rats should be allowed.

This could be challenging as the models for the monsters probably don’t exist in every dungeon. For example, the Shroud only has certain models defined to it. They’d have to add all the possible druid wildshape forms into every dungeon that didn’t already have those forms. Assuming this is the way DDO works, which I assume to be the case. If you notice, most dungeons have one of about 10 different kinds of "themes" to them. This is essentially the graphic set that defines a dungeon. All the summonable monsters and PC races are all defined to all these dungeons by default.

Beyond wildshape, druids don’t have anything significant above and beyond what clerics and rangers have. In fact, much of the druid class would be fairly boilerplate stuff based on what rangers already get. Druids have a limitation on “metal” equipment. As far as I know, all gear already has a part of its attribute, what it's made out of. Rust monsters don't damage wooden items, for example.

At the very least, they’ll need to add bears into the game – a nice addition, IMHO, anyway. Some quests could really benefit from having a really big grizzly in a cave. Nice iconic D&D monster. You need the character model anyway, so as long as you’re building it for druids, expect them to show up as monsters elsewhere.

Enhancement-wise, druids would expect to see a lot of the same kinds of enhancements that rangers and clerics have, with a few wild-shape specific ones that might increase their damage while in wild-shape form, duration, etc.

Spells are fairly easy. Druid spells already heavily overlap in the game with the other classes. A great many of the staple druid spells already exist in the game. You’d want to add a few new ones. Mainly:
entangle
dominate animal
giant vermin (variant summon spell which summons scorpions or spiders)
wall of thorns
transport via plants (could work like teleport but with limitations)
regenerate (could be very handy)
storm of vengeance

Lots of other druid spells wouldn’t really apply in DDO, but those, coupled with most of the ranger ones would be a good set.

Summon Nature’s Ally. I-IV already exist, as per the ranger spell. Expand the set to include bear, earth elemental, fire elemental, air elemental, and something else, and you’ve basically got it.

Adding trainers everywhere would also be something you’d have to do.

Rakion
07-29-2010, 10:44 AM
I was thinking about all the amazing possibilities that adding druids would bring about. I'm entirely stoked! I told my brother (he formerly played ddo for a while, we always ran in the same party, and it was entirely awesome,) about it, and he would consider coming back to the game to play a druid, which would make me extremely happy. I think its brilliant, honestly, and I'm glad that this thread was started. Its given me alot to look forward to if it works out! (even though i think my prime is fantastic, and I will continue working him through this TR and one more after this, when i complete all of those objectives, I will be in need of a new toon to level, and I'd love if it were a Druid. I have alot of good memories of 2nd and 3.5 edition druids that I had played, and it would be fun to be able to mess around with the build and see what I myself, as well as others, will be able to come up with.)
I know none of this really has no bearing on game mechanics, I just wanted to express my appreciation. This thread totally made my day and put a bounce in my step yesterday... (scary and lame, but true). Thanks folks.

Just my thoughts,

Racyon

richieelias27
07-31-2010, 08:44 AM
The only problem here of course, is that they have been promising Druids are coming "soon" since launch in 2006....

so....

yeah.

DarthSin69
09-21-2010, 01:54 PM
everyone keeps talking about the spells but no one has yet talked about my fav durid spell call lighting
it really wouldnt be to hard to do either

Diyon
09-21-2010, 02:08 PM
everyone keeps talking about the spells but no one has yet talked about my fav durid spell call lighting
it really wouldnt be to hard to do either

Go look in the archmage thread, call lightning storm is in U7 on the greater dragonmark of the storm, and Eladrin also mentioned it was a druid only spell.

chaosp1
09-22-2010, 11:32 AM
Given that ice storm will become like wall of fire, druids get that spell so expect some interior inclement weather happening soon. Likely one of the prestige lines for druids will focus on the "weather" like spells. One will focus on more advanced shapechanging forms and one will focus on healing and buffing likely.

richieelias27
10-05-2010, 10:42 AM
Yes, some players might get that impression.

The developer motivation to restrict Druids to 30% Life Magic and Fire/Lightning damage would be to compensate for them being a lot more damaging and survivable in melee thanks to Wildshape. (It would also serve to maintain the D&D rules of Druids being worse at healing than Clerics, as the +1 spell level isn't as obstructive in a mana system)

I still wouldnt see them doing this simply because it would break with their current theme of doing things. Now what I could see is a fire/lit/ice/acid all in one enhancement capping out at 30%

A Druid should not be any less a healer than a Cleric. A Druid will spend slightly more on some of the healing spells and will not have them slotted for free (as a cleric does). Instead Druids will probably get summons they will never use in spell levels 1 - 8.