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Yiren
07-19-2010, 08:55 PM
I am hoping that the Devs read this.

Every DDO player knows that Jump is much more practically useful than Tumble. This seems quite unfortunate, as it seems more effort has been spent doing up Tumble graphics and Tumble is actually built into the game mechanics (e.g. for the Mobility feat).

This thread is not a debate on the merits of the two based on the current interface, but really just a usability suggestion to improve the Tumble interface. Actually there is a very simple reason why Tumble is not used so much and it boils down to the way each is activated:


Jumping on the Move
Player is pressing [W] to run forward. While still holding on to [W], he hits [space] to Jump. There is no need to release [W] and after the Jump is completed, he continues to move forward. In other words, the player just hits [space] while moving to Jump. Very simple!

Tumbling on the Move
Player is pressing [W] to run forward. In order to Tumble, the player needs to release [W], press [shift], then press [W]. Then after the Tumble is completed, he needs to release and press [W] again to continue his forward motion.

As can be seen above, much more key pressing and coordination is needed just to Tumble. It is also slower which is fatal in a real-time game. This complicated key sequence is really totally unnecessary. :confused: Why not just have the same mechanic as Jump? Allow the Tumble while [W] is being held down. In other words, allow the player to just hit [shift] while moving to Tumble!

What about Block?

The Tumble can be automatically converted back into a Block when the player stops holding on to any directional key. Again, simple!

There is really no need to first go into a Block before executing a Tumble, which is the current interface. It makes no sense and neither is it in the D&D rules.



Yiren.

Phidius
07-19-2010, 09:05 PM
Sounds good to me. At least there might be a reason to put more than one point into it.

I'm not going to derail your thread by bringing up the fact that there are many skills where no one even bothers to put the one point in.










Oops. Sorry :D

Brennie
07-19-2010, 09:13 PM
I really like this idea! Tumbling is a pain, and difficult, if not impossible, to do while in combat (making mobility one of the most useless feats in the game, woo! Not to mention the only class that ever takes mobility doesn't even have tumble as a class skill... but that's for another discussion XD)

I would also really like to see swim combined with jump, since no one ever invests points in swim ever XD.

I would also really like it if you changed your dark blue text color into deepskyblue or some other color that's actually readable ^_^

Angelus_dead
07-19-2010, 11:09 PM
Actually there is a very simple reason why Tumble is not used so much and it boils down to the way each is activated:
Difficulty of activation is not a big part of the reason. Pressing control-W is plenty easy for many people.

The reasons Tumble is less attractive:
1. You can't do other actions during Tumble, while a jumping person can continue to attack or cast spells.
2. You can't change how far the Tumble will go.
3. Tumble won't get you over monsters or obstructions like Jump can.

Note that the D&D version of Tumble allows you to pass through the space occupied by a monster, which is an ability the DDO version does not provide to any degree. A DDO character must use Jump if he wants that kind of benefit. (Therefore, I suggest that a DDO character be allowed to Tumble through a monster if his Tumble check is high enough compared to the enemy's BAB+dex roll)

Quarterling
07-19-2010, 11:31 PM
I was thinking on adding something of a "synergy" thing.

For every 10 total mod of your jump, you would get a +1 dodge bonus to AC (stacks with everything).

Though 10 may be too low, the reason I say this is because ten is the number for Neverwinter Nights 2 in order to get +1 AC.

So if this is implemented, the number may need to be raised to 15 or 20 to fit DDO .

Yiren
07-20-2010, 08:47 PM
Note that the D&D version of Tumble allows you to pass through the space occupied by a monster, which is an ability the DDO version does not provide to any degree. A DDO character must use Jump if he wants that kind of benefit. (Therefore, I suggest that a DDO character be allowed to Tumble through a monster if his Tumble check is high enough compared to the enemy's BAB+dex roll)

Quite agree. This isn't too unbalancing since characters can already Jump now to get "through" and enemy position.

IronClan
08-17-2010, 09:16 AM
/signed

I would love to see more of the useless or near useless skills made worthy of investing in... As it stands tumble was already a niche "twitch player" skill before they nerfed it to not help with spell/debuff movement restrictions... Now it's only good for getting through knee high water a little faster...

Which because people actually invest some in Jump and get jump buffed, is also superseded by jump.

Tumble made a little more fluid, and given some love, like allowing movement past enemy lines, would make it a much more useful skill... The OP's idea for making it more fluid and natural movement instead of tieing it in with a shield block; makes sense on every level, and would make the skill more usable in every case. I would like to see the mobility feat give tumble back the previous "freedom of movement when slowed or impeded" functionality that they nerfed from it... Maybe they nerfed it because they were thinking the same thing... make mobility at least semi useful in a niche way. Still would be pretty under powered.

You could even allow "blocking tumble" to stay around (it's a different key mod anyway so why not) and give it an increased defensive boost, and the same buffs with mobility (minor freedom of movement effect, +AC) and slightly less than shield blocking sized DR while using it. This would actually expand the number of combat movement options... You could have normal and jumping movement, fluid tumbling, and the current "blocking combat move" which actually expands tumble and gives it another dimension. The current style of non-fluid blocking/tumble effect is much more restrictive/structured more like a trained combat maneuver (like something Capt. Kirk would do fighting a Lizard Alien lol), while the fluid tumble effect would be less defensive (gets no DR but still gets AC bonus) as it's more improvised movement thus should probably be more risky than a combat move that someone trains over and over from an early age. Both should get AC benefits from tumble skill that they don't currently get.

I'd also love to see something like automatic reflex save boost while in a tumble (tumbling under the darts/flames when a trap is sprung)... That improves with ranks of the skill. Hell why not allow tumble modifier key to work in mid jump for high tumble skill, causing a mid air tuck (say more than 15 tumble ranks) giving a reflex boost +AC and DR (if using blocking version) in mid jump... (Old school Ninja Gaiden flashback FTW) :)