PDA

View Full Version : Should TR raise your level cap?



Reos
07-07-2010, 04:55 PM
I imagine there's arguments for, and against, this idea, but bear with me.

What if...
First TR raises your cap to lev 21, cap stone abilities remain as lev 20 req, with the added bonus that you could splash 9 levels of something and still get second tier PrE's.

Second TR raises your cap to lev 22, cap stone is still unlocked at lev 20, but now you have an extra 2 levels to play with (get that rogue splash!).

Ever TR after that remains at lev 22 cap (with only lev 20 required for unlocking completionist?)

Other pros/cons? If TR did raise your level cap, should it keep getting higher rather than max out at 22?

Chai
07-07-2010, 05:01 PM
No.

Turbine would then raise the bar for this assuming everyone would do it, and only the people who had no lives could build the most effective toons to run that content.

AyumiAmakusa
07-07-2010, 05:04 PM
Although as a side note, I find it weird that some explorer zones have level caps up to 21/22 (Subterranne, etc). I haven't seen any higher than this but it gets me thinking that maybe they're going to increase the cap. I mean, they already incresed it once before, what's to stop them from doing it again? There's no point trying to bring the argument that 'It doesn't follow PnP rules' because face it, this game is getting farther and farther from the PnP version.

Oh and your idea introduces incredible amounts of grind.

Teharahma
07-07-2010, 05:05 PM
+1 Chai

What is up with people wanting to increase the cap >.> ?

Impaqt
07-07-2010, 05:07 PM
I imagine there's arguments for, and against, this idea, but bear with me.

What if...
First TR raises your cap to lev 21, cap stone abilities remain as lev 20 req, with the added bonus that you could splash 9 levels of something and still get second tier PrE's.

Second TR raises your cap to lev 22, cap stone is still unlocked at lev 20, but now you have an extra 2 levels to play with (get that rogue splash!).

Ever TR after that remains at lev 22 cap (with only lev 20 required for unlocking completionist?)

Other pros/cons? If TR did raise your level cap, should it keep getting higher rather than max out at 22?

/no

oh, and second level PrE's are L12... not 9.....

dragons1ayer74
07-07-2010, 05:07 PM
Even pen and paper D&D has epic levels it would be nothing new. I do think for the most part turbine has a great idea for a mmo with the TR, now we just need a lot more content and possible some reduced or better scaled xp on TRs.

Lord_Lambent
07-07-2010, 05:09 PM
/no

oh, and second level PrE's are L12... not 9.....

21-9 = 12 = tier II PrE.

As for a reply to the OP. Interesting idea, but dunno if it'd work. I think Chai put it well.

Deathseeker
07-07-2010, 05:09 PM
Nah...but I wouldn't mind if your number of TR's did add to your level for purposes of qualifying to run Epic (and allowing Epic to give you XP if you are a lvl 19 TR for example)...

Impaqt
07-07-2010, 05:20 PM
21-9 = 12 = tier II PrE.

As for a reply to the OP. Interesting idea, but dunno if it'd work. I think Chai put it well.

I cant think of any class thats gets anything so special its worth splashing 9 levels instead of 8...
Splash 9 levels of Ranger for Evasion?

SPlash 9 Levels of Cleric so you get Raise Dead?

Lord_Lambent
07-07-2010, 05:22 PM
I cant think of any class thats gets anything so special its worth splashing 9 levels instead of 8...
Splash 9 levels of Ranger for Evasion?

SPlash 9 Levels of Cleric so you get Raise Dead?

I never said that a 12/9 split would be good, or something I would take. I corrected you because you misread.

Vynnt
07-07-2010, 05:26 PM
I cant think of any class thats gets anything so special its worth splashing 9 levels instead of 8...
Splash 9 levels of Ranger for Evasion?

SPlash 9 Levels of Cleric so you get Raise Dead?

Forget 12/9 split. 18/3monk or 12/6/3monk. You get PrE III or PrE I+II and can have the abilities of a light monk!

Chai
07-07-2010, 05:35 PM
Even pen and paper D&D has epic levels it would be nothing new. I do think for the most part turbine has a great idea for a mmo with the TR, now we just need a lot more content and possible some reduced or better scaled xp on TRs.

Levels 20 - 40 in PnP are so broke, most people dont play them. Its not really that realistic when each player is dying once every three encounters when the mobs basically spam effects until the player fails a save.

Imagine fighting DQs as trash mobs. Imagine every mob being able to cast dragon knight. Now you have a vellah raid in every single hallway while fighting every single trash mob that can cast. Imagine every mob being able to spam maximised empowered greater ruin at will. It does ALOT of untyped damage, with no way to counter it other than a save. Fail pretty much = death.

The game is broke like a joke after level 20.

I vote for more level 20 content that isnt an epic quest built out of rehashed lower level quests with mobs that are immune to 90% of all options available.

Reos
07-07-2010, 06:32 PM
I was thinking raised level cap to make epics more palatable, but I suppose more lev 20 content would be nicer. Still, it would be interesting to play around with different multiclass builds. I think Vynnt sees what I'm talking about.

Side note: 9 levels of Monk splash could get you ToD and Improved Evasion, for example.

IgorHackNSlasher
07-07-2010, 06:38 PM
If they ever raise level cap I think it should require a Legendary character (36 pt ) and no longer allow TR's on that toon.

yams
07-07-2010, 06:45 PM
If Turbine ever decides to implement 20+ levels, it should be in a game designed from the ground up with the intent of letting players reach those levels (i.e. DDO2). And hopefully gear acquisition and character progression would be significantly slowed.

Elaril
07-07-2010, 06:45 PM
I'd have to say no op, on the grounds that it would be super annoying to level a TR guy through levels 21 and 22; although though I do like Death's idea.

Dumluck
07-07-2010, 07:02 PM
Yes yes yes.... Keep increasing the level cap! Or we will get nothing but more low level content.

Dumluck
07-07-2010, 07:04 PM
Increased level caps equal higher level dungeons.

donfilibuster
07-07-2010, 08:49 PM
Anything above 20 is epic levels, and an entirely different game.
Now MMO's may be about leveling but D&D is about heroes doing quests.
For power or for glory?

Zorth
07-07-2010, 08:54 PM
I say no only becuase you put a limit to 22.

Dungeons and Dragons is fun because you always have that next level to look forward to.

I would like to see the max to 36.

This would cause huge dungeons.

I forsee huge solo quests after 20 that are class dependent.

That would be reasonable and fun.

Zorth
07-07-2010, 08:56 PM
Anything above 20 is epic levels, and an entirely different game.
Now MMO's may be about leveling but D&D is about heroes doing quests.
For power or for glory?

Right, an entirely different game. SOLO quests dependent on class and or abilities with no class dependency or both.

Calebro
07-07-2010, 09:02 PM
I keep seeing all of these "raise the level cap" threads popping up every once in a while.

They implemented True Rez because of some of the reasons that Chai listed. There probably won't be another level cap increase. And if there is, what are they going to do about TRs? When would you be able to do it? Would you have to gain the new cap befoire TR'ing, or would you still be able to do it at level 20?

Not going to happen folks. And if it does, it will ruin the game.

donfilibuster
07-08-2010, 10:16 AM
To this respect the Epic level handbook mentions that getting to 21 is a special time for the hero.
It suggests to the DM that getting to 21 is hard and doing it by xp alone may be too "mundane".
Thus attaining 21 is a "transition" to be accompained by a "suitable event" such as a holy quest, etc
In any case, the epic toon would be playing on realm of legends.

Things like that, TR alone looks too soft to be your milestone, since past lives are just that and not imply you become a legend.
Most likely TR may remain unchanged, since lv 20 is the cap for non-epic levels, beside reincarnation is originally meant to turn you back to square 1.

As for epic dungeons for epic toons, one gotta keep in mind that first new content would be made and second a new progression/mechanics would be made, and third, balance is already fragile on regular levels thus balancing epic would be as difficult as in PnP.
Actual quests however, need not be complex, and they are a pain in PnP only coz a DM would try to run everything at once and keep track of dice is a nightmare (unlike by computer).
Truth is the challenges are too epic that you probably get to face them one at a time just as in the epic raids we have now.

Resolving an epic battle is also a matter of having or not having the right power to beat the opponent, since you can't count on any of the numbers, be it bab, ac, saves, stats or whatever, them being all off scale.
The party probably would be more involved in finding a key artifact than buffing up for face to face combat.
Not to say that by the end of the day there would not be some epic monster being kicked below its tail.