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View Full Version : Completion with DDoor, Boss Beaters Required



Carpone
07-07-2010, 04:18 PM
To all the people who join Shroud LFMs that state "boss beater required" and get bent out of shape when they're asked to link their weapons:

http://happyvalleynews.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/prince_symbol2.jpg (http://happyvalleynews.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/prince_symbol2.jpg)

Get over yourself.

Asketes
07-07-2010, 04:22 PM
and that picture is....?

karl_k0ch
07-07-2010, 06:36 PM
and that picture is....?

I think it's a symbol. It might be like a metaphor or an analogy as well.

sfi72
07-08-2010, 12:06 AM
Meh, people always say boss beaters are so hard to get, they are much easier than good portal beaters, im gonna start making people link those too before they get in my groups:P also that symbol is Prince, guys...cmon.

sirgog
07-08-2010, 12:10 AM
I always find it funny when group leaders insist that someone with reasonably good Harry beaters like Anarchic Burst of GLOB one-handers instead use inferior weapons like Metalline of Pure Good.

Carpone
07-08-2010, 08:19 AM
I always find it funny when group leaders insist that someone with reasonably good Harry beaters like Anarchic Burst of GLOB one-handers instead use inferior weapons like Metalline of Pure Good.
You'd be surprised what people try to pass off as boss beaters. Yesterday someone insisted Anarchic Silver of Tendonslice was an appropriate boss beater for Harry. /facepalm

Hellllboy
07-08-2010, 08:26 AM
and that picture is....?


Isnt that the new name for Prince? (lol) :p

Lorz
07-08-2010, 08:43 AM
I'm thinking if ya gotta check out whom you allow in......there are deeper issues.

sfi72
07-08-2010, 02:15 PM
I'm thinking if ya gotta check out whom you allow in......there are deeper issues.

You clearly aren't from Orien....the server has some serious issues, if I put up a shroud lfm, and take everyone who clicks(keeping it with the normal 1 arcane, 3 healers, 8 melee) we will more than likely wipe on part 4. Why? Because we have a lot of level 20(melee) toons walking around with less than 300 hp, 0% fort, and using crappy weapons. A huge amount of the pug clerics(i say clerics because most of the server is unaware the fvs class exists.) will, once they are out of sp just stand around and hope for the best, they dont bother to farm out a bauble, or drink a single pot -- when more often than not it is their own fault for not knowing how to conserve mana that led them to being OOM 30 seconds into p4 or 5. Oh, and there is ALWAYS someone in the group with no sound, so on prt3 he jumps around on the puzzle not knowing what hes doing...until he gets lucky 5 minutes later after the rainbow of death is up.

EatSmart
07-09-2010, 03:32 PM
Generally on Orien shroud pugs you have to assume that 11 piker slots have been filled until proven otherwise.

More often that i'd like:
- Arcane is last on the kill list in part 1.
- Quest objective "shatter the crystal" shows up before half the party have stepped into part 2.
- You only get 2 chests in part 3.
- Harry goes to 2+ rounds.
- Someone has to ask: "Why are you typing 'STOP ATTACKING EARTH'?!?!"

MsEricka
07-09-2010, 03:49 PM
A "boss beater"? Seriously? You can't just put "bypass DR" in the LFM without making yourself sound like you're 12?

And forcing people to link their gear is lame, and means nothing. They could have borrowed it from someone just for the purpose of linking it.

I think you need to get off your high horse before telling others to "get over yourself".

And what's with the lame graphic? Are you one of those turds who thinks tribal art makes a good "original" tatoo like the tens of thousands just like it, even though you have absolutely no connection to any tribe in the world?

Crazyfruit
07-09-2010, 03:55 PM
if I put up a shroud lfm

I gotta start clicking yours, those sound like fun :)

sirgog
07-09-2010, 07:52 PM
Generally on Orien shroud pugs you have to assume that 11 piker slots have been filled until proven otherwise.

More often that i'd like:
- Arcane is last on the kill list in part 1.
- Quest objective "shatter the crystal" shows up before half the party have stepped into part 2.
- You only get 2 chests in part 3.
- Harry goes to 2+ rounds.
- Someone has to ask: "Why are you typing 'STOP ATTACKING EARTH'?!?!"

Come to Khyber. On Normal, you can take the first 12 and beat it. On Elite, you'll beat it by being moderately picky.

LunaCee
07-10-2010, 05:30 AM
I've occasionally had fun linking a +1 True Chaos Silver Dwarven Axe of Pure Good when asked to link a Harry beater.

And frankly I've been on Khyber, I'll pass on the triple heaping serving of drama and the AH prices set to clean out the pocketbook of royalty. The odds of actually scoring a nice deal on Khyber are a heck of a lot harder than a couple of the other servers.

Though I will admit sometimes I get a little irked at how things turn out. Doing the VoN series, people *seem* to have the right equipment. Right up until we fail VoN 3 because my FvS was the only one capable of doing more than scratching the Marut's paint job by the simple virtue of having a GCB heavy mace.

Carpone
07-10-2010, 08:45 AM
a "boss Beater"? Seriously? You Can't Just Put "bypass Dr" In The Lfm Without Making Yourself Sound Like You're 12?

And Forcing People To Link Their Gear Is Lame, And Means Nothing. They Could Have Borrowed It From Someone Just For The Purpose Of Linking It.

I Think You Need To Get Off Your High Horse Before Telling Others To "get Over Yourself".

And What's With The Lame Graphic? Are You One Of Those Turds Who Thinks Tribal Art Makes A Good "original" Tatoo Like The Tens Of Thousands Just Like It, Even Though You Have Absolutely No Connection To Any Tribe In The World?
2/10.

Carpone
07-10-2010, 08:54 AM
Come to Khyber. On Normal, you can take the first 12 and beat it. On Elite, you'll beat it by being moderately picky.
See, that's the thing -- pugs on Orien have no inclination to run elite Shroud, ever. There are very few people on the server interested and capable of doing challenging content. Normal HoX pugs routinely wipe. There's only one guild that regularly runs Abbot. There's maybe three guilds capable of doing ToD. You won't find many epic LFMs either.

kernal42
07-10-2010, 09:12 AM
I've been really disappointed in the sudden drop in epic LFMs since they fixed the "leave, drop group, re-enter" exploit.

Really Orien? You had to cheat to do epics?

Cheers,
Kernal

PS There are more guilds than you realize capable and currently running ToD, though I don't know of any other than one that regularly do Abbot.

Codect
07-10-2010, 09:55 AM
A "boss beater"? Seriously? You can't just put "bypass DR" in the LFM without making yourself sound like you're 12?

And forcing people to link their gear is lame, and means nothing. They could have borrowed it from someone just for the purpose of linking it.

I think you need to get off your high horse before telling others to "get over yourself".

And what's with the lame graphic? Are you one of those turds who thinks tribal art makes a good "original" tatoo like the tens of thousands just like it, even though you have absolutely no connection to any tribe in the world?

I wish I had your positive outlook on life.

weewoo0
07-10-2010, 10:01 AM
we have epic groups that hide behind von 1/2 and are invite only. i happen to know several people i've run epic wizking/oob with that are not inside of over raided and weren't in red alert or epic fail. i've also run a completely PUG ToD group. (you can do it too) you just have to look closely at their builds/equipment and then explain things in very clear ways. in the last pug ToD i had 1 sorc 2 defenders of siberys tanks (1 18/2 pal/monk and 1 20 paladin) 2 barbarians 1 ranger 2 fighters and me..... a 20 paladin in addition to 1 favored soul and a cleric (radiant servant) and an unbooted bard. <the aura sadly caused his mantle to empty and he was banished at the last 10% :(>
all you can REALLY say is that not many people want to try content 2 or 3 times...... or take the initiative to just sit there and get the frigging quest done......
and no we don't have to cheat to do epics. those lfms just don't accept people who we figured out were 13 year olds who actually didn't understand how to heal/cast..... <since been blacklisted for epics outside of von 1....>
abbot however is a different beast.... we have enough people who understand how to do it its just that so few who know actually want to go back again because its so painful to learn the first few times. those that do go back however are met with such a poor pug quality that they are disgusted and give up on those groups :/ <welcome to orien i know but still its ridiculous>

vVAnjilaVv
07-10-2010, 10:14 AM
You know what I find hilarious about people who have "Boss Beaters required" in their LFM for a NORMAL Shroud run.....

They are usually 18-20 groups and I was successfully doing Shrouds when the cap was 16 and very few had boss-beaters.

To all the people who have LFM's up like this....LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME....and stop using lag as ur excuse....it's a joke.

Vanshilar
07-10-2010, 11:38 AM
You know what I find hilarious about people who have "Boss Beaters required" in their LFM for a NORMAL Shroud run.....

They are usually 18-20 groups and I was successfully doing Shrouds when the cap was 16 and very few had boss-beaters.

To all the people who have LFM's up like this....LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME....and stop using lag as ur excuse....it's a joke.

That's nice. We have people in guild who've been leading shroud runs since level 14. It's not particularly difficult, really.

Unfortunately, said people were people who understand the raid and knew how to go about it, plus were adequately prepared (in terms of gear) for it. Not the general random player. As I'm sure it was when you were doing the runs at level 16.

You should try putting a shroud LFM on Orien...and see what percentage of the people who click on it you would actually be comfortable with taking along into shroud at level 16, in terms of having fortification, enough HP, etc. Seriously. I remember a PUG I joined once where one of the people commented that this group was really great, part 4 only took 2 rounds, the last one he was in it took 4 rounds, etc.

vVAnjilaVv
07-10-2010, 01:17 PM
That's nice. We have people in guild who've been leading shroud runs since level 14. It's not particularly difficult, really.

Unfortunately, said people were people who understand the raid and knew how to go about it, plus were adequately prepared (in terms of gear) for it. Not the general random player. As I'm sure it was when you were doing the runs at level 16.

You should try putting a shroud LFM on Orien...and see what percentage of the people who click on it you would actually be comfortable with taking along into shroud at level 16, in terms of having fortification, enough HP, etc. Seriously. I remember a PUG I joined once where one of the people commented that this group was really great, part 4 only took 2 rounds, the last one he was in it took 4 rounds, etc.

I still stand by my statement and emphasize the "learn how to play" part of it. The problem is too many players are making it to the Shroud who are basically clueless....even if they have a boss-beater it does not really mean it's going to make a difference if they are not a good player to begin with.

Skill makes a person a good player, not gear.

Most of the times I fail Shrouds now it's because people don't know how to listen in part 2 or healers who use lag as their excuse in part 4 and 5.

Crazyfruit
07-10-2010, 02:19 PM
I've been really disappointed in the sudden drop in epic LFMs since they fixed the "leave, drop group, re-enter" exploit.

Really Orien? You had to cheat to do epics?

Actually most of those people who were running epics farmed the - out of them for tokens/challenge before both were severely nerfed, and TR'd to take advantage of the bonus 20% xp. Most don't play all day either so 4.1 mil xp is still aways away.

They're not as fun anymore for me with the saves change so I won't be running them much. There's a few private channels of people who do, and a few people who constantly put groups up. Most of those groups only have one or two people in them until they're ready to go so watch for those :)

Re: other posts, some of you people... *sigh* I pug my abbots, ToDs, etc... don't act like the game is so challenging only your guild/s & myddoing for the perfect people can do stuff please. The only raid/high level quest I've ever had issues pugging is Titan. Or epic chains when no rogues are interested... eep.

If anyone (or guilds) would like help learning high level content they don't see groups for often feel free to poke Kwizqjirqtl ingame.

Aikou
07-11-2010, 03:59 PM
Re: other posts, some of you people... *sigh* I pug my abbots, ToDs, etc... don't act like the game is so challenging only your guild/s & myddoing for the perfect people can do stuff please. The only raid/high level quest I've ever had issues pugging is Titan. Or epic chains when no rogues are interested... eep.


Uh, Sparkle... The people who were in your 80+ attempts/day of trying to PUG Abbot may disagree with you.
Not to mention, as far as I've heard there have been a grand total of 3 successful ToD PUGs on Orien now, and one of them was largely comprised of EF members who had had several successful guild completions prior to running it and considerable experience laying the foundation for the group.

Crazyfruit
07-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Hi Aikou!

That was my "get everyone to finally start doing abbot day" letting people have fun practicing puzzles/inferno & reforming almost every time the tiles room took more than 5 mins. I'm very happy with how that turned out - over 100 people got to see him their first time, made lots of new friends and it had yet to be completed on our server besides those guys from Thelanis :)

I don't know what to say if you really think a pug ToD has only been done 3 times.

Talon_Moonshadow
07-11-2010, 07:54 PM
I've always liked the fact, that you have to run the Shroud, to get the weapons, to run the Shroud... :rolleyes:

















(note to self: hold onto next Club of the Holy Flame to link for Shroud interrogations.)

Carpone
07-12-2010, 07:53 AM
You know what I find hilarious about people who have "Boss Beaters required" in their LFM for a NORMAL Shroud run.....

They are usually 18-20 groups and I was successfully doing Shrouds when the cap was 16 and very few had boss-beaters.

To all the people who have LFM's up like this....LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME....and stop using lag as ur excuse....it's a joke.
Some of us prefer completing Shroud in 15 minutes instead of the 1 hour+ many Orien pugs take. Shroud is a farm run -- even on elite -- not a challenge. Those of us with 3-4 characters want to complete ASAP so we can get on with other stuff. My time is limited and I need to make the most of it when I play.

I welcome you to run a Shroud pug on Orien with 140 hp wizards with no fortification, 300hp non-evasion melee and arcane archers galore. It's not a challenge, it's madness.

Carpone
07-12-2010, 07:54 AM
double post

Carpone
07-12-2010, 08:01 AM
That was my "get everyone to finally start doing abbot day" letting people have fun practicing puzzles/inferno & reforming almost every time the tiles room took more than 5 mins. I'm very happy with how that turned out - over 100 people got to see him their first time, made lots of new friends and it had yet to be completed on our server besides those guys from Thelanis :)
Sparkle, you have the patience of a saint. I'm always thrilled to see people trying new content and challenging themselves. Many on Orien have you to thank for it.

porq
07-12-2010, 11:32 AM
Some of us prefer completing Shroud in 15 minutes instead of the 1 hour+ many Orien pugs take. Shroud is a farm run -- even on elite -- not a challenge. Those of us with 3-4 characters want to complete ASAP so we can get on with other stuff. My time is limited and I need to make the most of it when I play.

I welcome you to run a Shroud pug on Orien with 140 hp wizards with no fortification, 300hp non-evasion melee and arcane archers galore. It's not a challenge, it's madness.

Madness? This. Is. ORIEN!!!!!!!


I'm sorry. I can't resist. That's such a dangerous word to use on forums now :D

Cupcake
07-12-2010, 12:25 PM
Actually most of those people who were running epics farmed the - out of them for tokens/challenge before both were severely nerfed, and TR'd to take advantage of the bonus 20% xp. Most don't play all day either so 4.1 mil xp is still aways away.

They're not as fun anymore for me with the saves change so I won't be running them much. There's a few private channels of people who do, and a few people who constantly put groups up. Most of those groups only have one or two people in them until they're ready to go so watch for those :)

Re: other posts, some of you people... *sigh* I pug my abbots, ToDs, etc... don't act like the game is so challenging only your guild/s & myddoing for the perfect people can do stuff please. The only raid/high level quest I've ever had issues pugging is Titan. Or epic chains when no rogues are interested... eep.

If anyone (or guilds) would like help learning high level content they don't see groups for often feel free to poke Kwizqjirqtl ingame.


I'd love to ask for your help with Shots, but I never see you on at night when I get home from work :(

Cupcake
07-12-2010, 12:28 PM
Sparkle, you have the patience of a saint. I'm always thrilled to see people trying new content and challenging themselves. Many on Orien have you to thank for it.

I completely agree with you. Sparkle is a darling.

I still don't feel comfortable puging the shroud on Shots, a sorc, because I have never done it and I am still clueless.

It was recommended I look for links to see where the portals show up in part 1, but I haven't found any yet. Unless, of course, I am not searching correctly.

screamingpup
07-12-2010, 12:31 PM
just got to put my 2 cents in here. ask me to link boss beaters - u can - can it. if u need more the 2 healers u are in trouble any damn way. if a healer blames lag then maybe he has lag - did u think about that - how many of u where beating Harry and only U was moving and no one else. shroud in 15 mins - more power to u - if i need an hour to teach someone and have fun doing it i well, will admit might be somewhat of a promblem in part 3 with the wall. U complain about PUGS - well maybe u ought to bk up regroup and teach them instead of b******* on the forum about it. for thoses that r *perfect players with perfect gear* i would have loved to c what happen the first time U was in the shroud, ToD, Hox etc....because without a spoiler i would say that the party wiped.

I will say one thing *Thank God that the CoJ can make a pug group with old and new players and make it work*
and at the same time teach someone and have fun doing it!!!!!!!!

unscythe
07-12-2010, 12:41 PM
I think the issue with checking for shroud lies in the thoughtprocess:

A. Having a decent build with boss beaters = that player is willing to learn or atleast knows a thing
B. That player having boss beaters = Willing to listen/ abide
C. That player willing to listen and learn= not a burden to the party
D. Not a burden to the party= getting Shroud done quickly and moving on


Personally, I was leading/ pugging jan./ early feb. (cant spell on the internets :D) raids

With Pugs, we were able to do HoX and shroud- but those players that are willign to take advice/listen/learn have left.

Orien is filled with new players, and with their glorious one shot hp, and their awesome pride they have gotten from destroying korthos, make the game less enjoyable.

I know some of it is a language barrier, but the players that refuse to listen/learn are a burden, and basically end up piking.

Also, I play pretty gimpy characters ,so I understand that its player skill over gear/character builds.

Having boss beaters is really low bottom line imoh.


P.S. Where are all these ninja players hiding at that you speak of Sparkle?

unscythe
07-12-2010, 12:43 PM
[QUOTE=screamingpup;3114189] well maybe u ought to bk up regroup and teach them instead of b******* on the forum about it. for thoses that r *perfect players with perfect gear* i would have loved to c what happen the first time U was in the shroud, ToD, Hox etc....because without a spoiler i would say that the party wiped.
QUOTE]


Actually the first shroud run on the server was 6/7 manned and completed-, many of the first raids done on the server were completed on the first try , lead by a few vets from Khyber. This server basically eats the good players alive, since many of them have left. The few who remain- mostly group amongst themselves, because basically the teaching stage is over for many players- it was a nice chain- vets from other servers taught inexperienced players like myself, who then after gettn some confidence in the raid taught others. But somewhere in the line of spreading somewhat common raid knowledge was cut, and so for the continous flood of new players it will not reach.


Yes, people do wipe on raids they have no experience with. Gear is more of an indicator of a players willing-ness to spend time on the game and improve upon themselves and their character. Unless of course they are super greedy and have gear that does not help them in anyway shape or form. :D

Carpone
07-13-2010, 07:07 AM
just got to put my 2 cents in here. ask me to link boss beaters - u can - can it. if u need more the 2 healers u are in trouble any damn way. if a healer blames lag then maybe he has lag - did u think about that - how many of u where beating Harry and only U was moving and no one else. shroud in 15 mins - more power to u - if i need an hour to teach someone and have fun doing it i well, will admit might be somewhat of a promblem in part 3 with the wall. U complain about PUGS - well maybe u ought to bk up regroup and teach them instead of b******* on the forum about it. for thoses that r *perfect players with perfect gear* i would have loved to c what happen the first time U was in the shroud, ToD, Hox etc....because without a spoiler i would say that the party wiped.
Thanks for gracing me with your second forum post ever after nine months of playing. If people spent as much time understanding basic mechanics of the game as you did on your post, every Shroud would be filled with rainbows and unicorns.

Garix
07-13-2010, 12:05 PM
Thanks for gracing me with your second forum post ever after nine months of playing. If people spent as much time understanding basic mechanics of the game as you did on your post, every Shroud would be filled with rainbows and unicorns.

pls dont assume that forum join date = game experience. It dosnt. There's a lot of us from the EU servers that came across when the game went F2P, due to the server population dying a slow death.

Eladiun
07-13-2010, 01:02 PM
A "boss beater"? Seriously? You can't just put "bypass DR" in the LFM without making yourself sound like you're 12?

And forcing people to link their gear is lame, and means nothing. They could have borrowed it from someone just for the purpose of linking it.

Honestly, if someone doing that then they are 12. It's a reasonable precaution.



I think you need to get off your high horse before telling others to "get over yourself".

And what's with the lame graphic? Are you one of those turds who thinks tribal art makes a good "original" tatoo like the tens of thousands just like it, even though you have absolutely no connection to any tribe in the world?

It's not about being on a high horse. I don't do this for my shrouds on Khyber but sometimes I wish I did. I can always tell when we will wipe because of DPS on Part 4 and I've taken to telling the Healers just to let it happen rather than blow through pots. Melees who can't break DR cost the Healers mana pots which aren't cheap and never contribute to make up for their short comings. I love when I see names from top guilds pop up in the LFM because I know they will have DR Breakers. Here's a news flash for everyone reading....

SOME RAIDS ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE.

...raids are difficult don't go unprepared. Everything above Reaver's Fate requires gear and preparation (maybe not the Hound) . If you can't afford a DR breaking Khopesh buy a longsword the less desired weapon classes are cheaper. Heck, I used a morning star for a while till I could afford better. There are 11 other people relying on you to be prepared. Stop rushing into content you are not ready for; learn to walk before you try to run.

unscythe
07-13-2010, 01:15 PM
SOME RAIDS ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE.

...raids are difficult don't go unprepared. Everything above Reaver's Fate requires gear and preparation (maybe not the Hound) . If you can't afford a DR breaking Khopesh buy a longsword the less desired weapon classes are cheaper. Heck, I used a morning star for a while till I could afford better. There are 11 other people relying on you to be prepared. Stop rushing into content you are not ready for; learn to walk before you try to run.

/agree

Carpone
07-13-2010, 01:31 PM
To everyone raging about my OP: If you don't like the requirements set forth by the raid organizer, then don't click on the LFM. It's really as simple as that. I'm going to continue being an elitist jerk by screening people so I can run through 5 elite raids, 2 epic raids and 2 epic dungeons in a night while you're fumbling through Shroud.

After update 5.1 anyone in a guild should be running elite Shroud with the renown changes to elite and epic quests. Boss beaters are absolutely required in elite to get through DR 35.

Eladiun
07-13-2010, 01:36 PM
After update 5.1 anyone in a guild should be running elite Shroud with the renown changes to elite and epic quests. Boss beaters are absolutely required in elite to get through DR 35.

Well, I'll disagree there...I care more about speed farming components than I ever will care about renown. Renown comes without changing one's play style.

weewoo0
07-13-2010, 01:39 PM
Uh, Sparkle... The people who were in your 80+ attempts/day of trying to PUG Abbot may disagree with you.
Not to mention, as far as I've heard there have been a grand total of 3 successful ToD PUGs on Orien now, and one of them was largely comprised of EF members who had had several successful guild completions prior to running it and considerable experience laying the foundation for the group.

i'm going to just say that i actually plan on pugging ToD a lot more..... got one completion with a pug that was smoother than any attempt/complete i had while in red alert and i was one of three or four people in the group that had ever run it before. abbot however is a different story..... its so coordination driven that if someone makes a simple mistake you almost have to try it again.

EatSmart
07-14-2010, 07:06 PM
I completely agree with you. Sparkle is a darling.

I still don't feel comfortable puging the shroud on Shots, a sorc, because I have never done it and I am still clueless.

It was recommended I look for links to see where the portals show up in part 1, but I haven't found any yet. Unless, of course, I am not searching correctly.

I frapsed the arcane portal order for you. I'll get it up on Youtube once i've run it through a compressor and found a way to conceal the identity of someone who had a temper tantrum and rage quit on us.

Eladiun
07-14-2010, 07:14 PM
I completely agree with you. Sparkle is a darling.

I still don't feel comfortable puging the shroud on Shots, a sorc, because I have never done it and I am still clueless.

It was recommended I look for links to see where the portals show up in part 1, but I haven't found any yet. Unless, of course, I am not searching correctly.


I have an image with the Khyber order I edited from the wiki one for guildies. I don't know if Orien follows Khyber order though...for what it's worth.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/227/portalorder.png


I want a cupcake either way though...

EatSmart
07-14-2010, 07:22 PM
That's the melee kill order, but its more or less the same numbers wise.

14 opens before 13, 13 opens before 11&12. As long as you to a drive by wail on 14 and 13 you shouldn't see a keeper.

After 3 has been downed, 4 5 and 6 open, and the arcane needs to take a an interest in 6 if the melee dps is a little light to avoid a keeper there.

9 and 10 open before 8, so a good route is 10 -> 9 -> 8 while the melee are beating on 7. You'll usually just be coming off cooldown to wail at 8 when the portal opens.

Eladiun
07-14-2010, 07:51 PM
Good point...the spawn order is on the image at the wiki.

http://ddowiki.com/page/File:M_shroud.png

Carpone
07-15-2010, 11:40 AM
Well, I'll disagree there...I care more about speed farming components than I ever will care about renown. Renown comes without changing one's play style.
There's nothing that prevents you from speed running elite Shroud other than gimped/ungeared characters.

unscythe
07-16-2010, 12:31 PM
I have an image with the Khyber order I edited from the wiki one for guildies. I don't know if Orien follows Khyber order though...for what it's worth.

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/227/portalorder.png


I want a cupcake either way though...

Yeah the first shroud done on orien was lead by Khyber folk, and so it continues, much of Orien does part 1 the Khyber way, or atleast the majority of the shrouds ive done. Only different method ive seen are form the Euro players, part 1 is different and a bit more interesting then ya know doing part 1 the same for the 200th time or so.

kernal42
07-16-2010, 02:55 PM
There's nothing that prevents you from speed running elite Shroud other than gimped/ungeared characters.

What about the 11 other gimped/ungeared characters in your group? ;)

Cheers,
Kernal

Bloodstealer
08-03-2010, 07:00 AM
You clearly aren't from Orien....the server has some serious issues, if I put up a shroud lfm, and take everyone who clicks(keeping it with the normal 1 arcane, 3 healers, 8 melee) we will more than likely wipe on part 4. Why? Because we have a lot of level 20(melee) toons walking around with less than 300 hp, 0% fort, and using crappy weapons. A huge amount of the pug clerics(i say clerics because most of the server is unaware the fvs class exists.) will, once they are out of sp just stand around and hope for the best, they dont bother to farm out a bauble, or drink a single pot -- when more often than not it is their own fault for not knowing how to conserve mana that led them to being OOM 30 seconds into p4 or 5. Oh, and there is ALWAYS someone in the group with no sound, so on prt3 he jumps around on the puzzle not knowing what hes doing...until he gets lucky 5 minutes later after the rainbow of death is up.

Gees 3 healers for Shroud are you serious - I see now why u feel the need to request Boss beaters here so much.
OMG I run Shrouds from lvl 14 up and have been way before we all had our Greensteels tucked inside our pants. I dont think I have ever run with 3 healers except maybe in an Elite run, I mean really you only need 2 healers on Norm or Hard, I have often solo healed on normal.
I agree you need to have some form of selection and yes Voicechat for raids is a must. Maybe this server doesn't yet yield top quality heals or dps etc in abundance, but also maybe you need to question how the raid is led, the tactics used and perhaps consider helping new players come thro it so that next time they wont be such a drag on resources and time. I've led 100's of Shrouds and been party of countless others - even with poor dps / heals - as long as tactics are sound you will still send Harry back to bed with a headache, it might take a bit longer and perhaps 2 or 3 rounds in prt 4 but so what. Its when the raid looses control either thro poor leadership or noobs & zergers who have no clue and wont listen and run off blindly that it can and will go horribly wrong - that becomes evident from the minute the grp runs off in differnt direction is part 1, or players arent told where to go and what to expect in part 2. Even helping players understand that they to need to run round with water and to help others with their puzzles in part 3. Tell them what buffs to give and when, where to fight Harry, and where ur healers need to be to heal effectively but still top up mana in the pools - - This is where Shroud runs go wrong, not often due to inadequat BOSS Beaters. The only thing some leaders want them for is to ensure it helps with the Zerg philosophy, which in itself will cause the issues if, like you say the quality / experience of players on this server isnt quite there yet. The trouble is the inexperienced ones who have seen your LFM's replicate them but have no actual idea as to what it means and how best to run the raid cos noone actually took the time to show them originally.

That said would it be ok if I came along next time - I can dual wield my Clubs of the Holy Flame to DPS Harry or if I runoutta SP i cud use my eternal wand of CLW :)

Bloodstealer
08-03-2010, 08:02 AM
To everyone raging about my OP: If you don't like the requirements set forth by the raid organizer, then don't click on the LFM. It's really as simple as that. I'm going to continue being an elitist jerk by screening people so I can run through 5 elite raids, 2 epic raids and 2 epic dungeons in a night while you're fumbling through Shroud.

After update 5.1 anyone in a guild should be running elite Shroud with the renown changes to elite and epic quests. Boss beaters are absolutely required in elite to get through DR 35.


--------

Ok read thro more of this thread again and I can start to see your point a little now Carpone. I personally dont have any issue with Elitist players, its another playstlye that comes with the territory.
I agree Raids are not for everyone, certainly not until they have got some decent flight time in game. Yes for ELITE runs I agree, there is a need to be much more selective of grp make up, tactics and of course players toons need to be better prepared and up to the task.

But that is Elite raids - I am sure noone in there right mind, who has never done a specific raid even on normal would try to rush into an elite PUG - if they do then they unfortuantely deserve to be hung drawn and quarted for their stupidity. I have not been on Orien long but to be honest I dont see many raids running on LFM's but those that do I am sure are mostly just replicating what experienced players like yourself put up but actually have no real clue, its purely there to make others think they do.
Im guessing the majority of the posts dont even know what a Boss Beater is. They have probably never even looked into the mechanics of crafting a Greesteel in Shroud or making TOD boots. Heck im guessing some don't even know their way round Tempest Spine yet :)

But thats where the experienced players need to be more responsible and lend a hand from time to time to enlighten them, rather than flaming players, squelching them or ridiculing them, it doesnt help them become better players (OK some are a lost cause I agree, but Turbine have made it accessable to the very young brigade and helping 8 yr olds understand game mechanics and tactics can be like pulling teeth most of the time - tho I have also come across adults of the same calibre as well :) )
Maybe then we wont get so many of the (and I will use this as a basic example, nothing personal against AA's) -
Arcane Archer who think ping pining the mobs in Shroud part 2 then kiting them around, ping pinging some more until he/she realises that they have actually ended up kiting the Earth Ele right into all the other Mini bosses and they suddenly seem to all have massive DR and wont die or he/she has ping pinged the devil and proceeded to run all over the place to get a heal and ping ping again not realising that the Devil now kites all over the place cos he has seen everyone. This I agree is when selection and experience is most definately required but so to is the ability to help and advise others in raids - the more this happens the less likely parties will wipe and more players will post LFM's cos they are more confidnet. They may even be able to take their own guilds on guild runs then or even join a speciaic channel... ( err do they actually exist on Orien if the quality is as bad as you say)


By the way to the person who posted about having to run shroud to actually get ur Boss Beater - well there are other weapons in game that are decent boss beaters, you dont have to rely on GS weapons for everything. But your toon builds whether it be DPS or Healer specs etc - that is often the root of the issues that Carpone is talking about.

unscythe
08-03-2010, 08:09 PM
You need to add some spaces there, hard to read. Maybe break up into small points of a few sentences each.

There are a few channels, but they are not highly used.

Alot of lost causes on the server, and alot fo the "experienced players" are still new in many ways. So teaching does occur, but not often, since they themselves are still learning and working on their own thing.

Such groups where people were in-experienced or atleast more cautious were welcomed. The learning and sharing was rampant many months ago, but it does not seem to have been passed down the line. Alot of the people taught have moved on, so there has been a break in the line.

WestportStan
08-04-2010, 01:33 AM
Hey it's your LFM, allow or decline whomever you like, I say.
There does seem to be a lot of folks hitting upper lvls that are unwilling to listen or try to work as a team.

On the topic of the state of the end game on Orien. There used to be a soild group of upper level content trainers. They taught me everything I know and (maybe more importantly) they (at times) allowed me to learn the hard way that I needed to heed their lessons and advice.

Unfortunately they have since cloistered themselves away form the public leaving the plebs to their own devices. I do what I can.... but lets be honest I am a poor substitute for **** or *********.

Carpone
08-04-2010, 03:37 PM
On the topic of the state of the end game on Orien. There used to be a soild group of upper level content trainers. They taught me everything I know and (maybe more importantly) they (at times) allowed me to learn the hard way that I needed to heed their lessons and advice.

Unfortunately they have since cloistered themselves away form the public leaving the plebs to their own devices. I do what I can.... but lets be honest I am a poor substitute for **** or *********.
Many of the people I've interacted with on Orien have no desire to learn. Then when something goes wrong, they look outward for a scapegoat instead of asking themselves what they could have done better. Every so often I'll join a pug Shroud to see if the state of things has changed, and every time so far I'm reminded why I'm so selective with whom I quest with.

Carpone
08-04-2010, 03:45 PM
I've led 100's of Shrouds and been party of countless others - even with poor dps / heals - as long as tactics are sound you will still send Harry back to bed with a headache, it might take a bit longer and perhaps 2 or 3 rounds in prt 4 but so what.
As a healer I resent your "so what" attitude. You place the burden on the healers to burn through SP potions, instead of on the DPS to do their job. Some of us prefer to play the game without massive consumable usage because other players don't know/don't care to equip themselves correctly. Orien has been out long enough that boss beaters are common to find on the AH. I prefer to raid with people who aren't a burden on others. If I want to raid with pikers, I'll go do Reaver's Fate. >.>

Sparky21
08-04-2010, 04:17 PM
when orien was new, so was i. nobody told me how to bypass arritrikeat..harry's dr. or that i had to or even could. so i went in with my +4 icy greatsword of deception and we killed him eventually. i realize now that the team was carrying me and i was lucky they accepted me. but i eventually figured out whats what with most of the raids and make sure to inform people i party with if they appear as new as i was.

but i do agree with op, groups that can just barely complete should at least take melees that can bypass dr, and showing them to leader is part of it...

Bloodstealer
08-05-2010, 04:19 PM
As a healer I resent your "so what" attitude. You place the burden on the healers to burn through SP potions, instead of on the DPS to do their job. Some of us prefer to play the game without massive consumable usage because other players don't know/don't care to equip themselves correctly. Orien has been out long enough that boss beaters are common to find on the AH. I prefer to raid with people who aren't a burden on others. If I want to raid with pikers, I'll go do Reaver's Fate. >.>

Thats strange I too am an experienced Healer (133 runs on my cleric to date) and I dont use any resources in Shroud - ok maybe back in the early days like on my first or second run maybe, or in an Elite run if things look a little dicey. Not sure why you think thats a "dont care" attitude and its certainly not what I meant.
On Elite I agreed with your selection, for that very reason and I do equip myself accordingly whether I am Healing, DPS or caster - as I have said its all in the planning both as an individual and as a grp.

Even an average joe Shroud run requires very little more than SP and maybe the odd RD at the end of part 4 maybe. Just because not everyone has the primary goal of finishing in under 15mins doesnt mean that Shrouds have to be resource intensive.
If the group leader takes time to explain whats expected in each part then most of the time players will work with you and, except the for possibility that the healer or DPS aren't quite up to the task as they are still relatively new then so be it - at least they will know next time - carrying someone, sometimes comes with the territory. It's when you have to keep carrying the same person.. then your point becomes much more relevant and to that I agree. Like when you get the barby who knows nothing better than to charge off and aggro everythning then suddenly realises he/she is unprepared for the aggro and comes yelling back for a heal or a raise, but then does the same thing time and time again - then my attitude becomes somewhat diffeernt because it is clear then that player is a lost cause and ... resource intensive.

I would like to have seen you in your first or second shroud before it became so easy - yes it really only takes a couple of runs to start to understand what your up against, the tactics, the puzzles. Like me, you have been around the block a few times and have all the necessary plat, gear and raid items to make your job easier so I would say its actually you who portrays the "so what attitude" here rather than remembering that once you too were just as fallable as the rest of the players you consider to be inferior on this server.

Raids are just like riding a bike, the more you ride them the better you get and quickly you become profficient at it, but if you cant get on the bike to start with cos big brother wont let you ride it - then unforuantley learning to ride it becomes a very slow and painful process.... see my point

But as I said I dont have an issue with you being selective and if you wish Elitist, its your LFM so you can play how you see fit - I was merely saying I think the majority of LFM's for raids such as Shroud continually call for BB'S cos that's what they see others who know, put up on the boards, but they dont really understand what in fact they are asking for, they just hope to attract players that do so that the raids then runs itself and hope it all pans out.

If it doesn't then its obviously because the healers were gimped and didnt use enuff resources to keep them all alive :)

sidgarret
08-06-2010, 02:12 AM
Thats strange I too am an experienced Healer (133 runs on my cleric to date) and I dont use any resources in Shroud - ok maybe back in the early days like on my first or second run maybe, or in an Elite run if things look a little dicey. Not sure why you think thats a "dont care" attitude and its certainly not what I meant.
On Elite I agreed with your selection, for that very reason and I do equip myself accordingly whether I am Healing, DPS or caster - as I have said its all in the planning both as an individual and as a grp.

Even an average joe Shroud run requires very little more than SP and maybe the odd RD at the end of part 4 maybe. Just because not everyone has the primary goal of finishing in under 15mins doesnt mean that Shrouds have to be resource intensive.
If the group leader takes time to explain whats expected in each part then most of the time players will work with you and, except the for possibility that the healer or DPS aren't quite up to the task as they are still relatively new then so be it - at least they will know next time - carrying someone, sometimes comes with the territory. It's when you have to keep carrying the same person.. then your point becomes much more relevant and to that I agree. Like when you get the barby who knows nothing better than to charge off and aggro everythning then suddenly realises he/she is unprepared for the aggro and comes yelling back for a heal or a raise, but then does the same thing time and time again - then my attitude becomes somewhat diffeernt because it is clear then that player is a lost cause and ... resource intensive.

I would like to have seen you in your first or second shroud before it became so easy - yes it really only takes a couple of runs to start to understand what your up against, the tactics, the puzzles. Like me, you have been around the block a few times and have all the necessary plat, gear and raid items to make your job easier so I would say its actually you who portrays the "so what attitude" here rather than remembering that once you too were just as fallable as the rest of the players you consider to be inferior on this server.

Raids are just like riding a bike, the more you ride them the better you get and quickly you become profficient at it, but if you cant get on the bike to start with cos big brother wont let you ride it - then unforuantley learning to ride it becomes a very slow and painful process.... see my point

But as I said I dont have an issue with you being selective and if you wish Elitist, its your LFM so you can play how you see fit - I was merely saying I think the majority of LFM's for raids such as Shroud continually call for BB'S cos that's what they see others who know, put up on the boards, but they dont really understand what in fact they are asking for, they just hope to attract players that do so that the raids then runs itself and hope it all pans out.

If it doesn't then its obviously because the healers were gimped and didnt use enuff resources to keep them all alive :)

+1 rep to you Sir for a good post.

donfilibuster
08-06-2010, 03:24 AM
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/65/sparta.jpg
This is ORIEN !!!1!



... only on orien:
a) party leader shouting for waves of exhaustion for harry, after telling the new wizard to prepare it beforehand and he didn't.
b) even a pug only have one slot for rogues, bards, rangers that might be squishy, until proven otherwise.
c) new shroud puggers can pike the flagging quests with one of the so many speed runners, spoling their team skills.
d) you can't use mass heal because the melees are so squishy they can't live through the six seconds it takes to recast.
e) it takes longer for the group to fill than to run the raid (thus can't risk having it fail after all the wait)

Bloodstealer
08-06-2010, 05:38 AM
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/65/sparta.jpg
This is ORIEN !!!1!



... only on orien:
a) party leader shouting for waves of exhaustion for harry, after telling the new wizard to prepare it beforehand and he didn't.
b) even a pug only have one slot for rogues, bards, rangers that might be squishy, until proven otherwise.
c) new shroud puggers can pike the flagging quests with one of the so many speed runners, spoling their team skills.
d) you can't use mass heal because the melees are so squishy they can't live through the six seconds it takes to recast.
e) it takes longer for the group to fill than to run the raid (thus can't risk having it fail after all the wait)

hehe ROFLMAO -
Being newish to this particular server I've not started to run many raids yet so , all this could be utter nonsense or maybe soon it will be the only sense I will get to know :)

I hope the general consensus about Orien is all wrong otherwise this server could soon become a lost cause... but I'm hopeful

CrimsonEagle
08-06-2010, 07:06 AM
It has never been requested of me to show my "beater".

I think that I'm going to have to get a couple of the silver flame club's from deleras that I can link up in the event of this happening........just because I find it fun:)

WestportStan
08-06-2010, 09:00 AM
[QUOTE=donfilibuster;3176889... only on orien:
a) party leader shouting for waves of exhaustion for harry, after telling the new wizard to prepare it beforehand and he didn't.
b) even a pug only have one slot for rogues, bards, rangers that might be squishy, until proven otherwise.
c) new shroud puggers can pike the flagging quests with one of the so many speed runners, spoling their team skills.
d) you can't use mass heal because the melees are so squishy they can't live through the six seconds it takes to recast.
e) it takes longer for the group to fill than to run the raid (thus can't risk having it fail after all the wait)[/QUOTE]



Yea. Orien, where we are noobs. lol

Carpone
08-06-2010, 09:06 AM
I would like to have seen you in your first or second shroud before it became so easy
My first Shroud was wiping to the Rainbow in part 3.
My first successful completion was 4 round part4 because the raid leader didn't screen anyone. The number of SP pots I used was ridiculous.

If I'm an elitist jerk because I never want to be part of those fail groups again, then so be it.

WestportStan
08-06-2010, 10:15 AM
My first Shroud was wiping to the Rainbow in part 3.
My first successful completion was 4 round part4 because the raid leader didn't screen anyone. The number of SP pots I used was ridiculous.

If I'm an elitist jerk because I never want to be part of those fail groups again, then so be it.

While I might agree with you being elitist, I have never know you to be a jerk.
I must disagree with the statement however, "I never want to be part of those fail groups again".
The chance of failing makes it more exciting. I like running through a quest in 7 min sometimes but....Seeing that wipe coming and then having people pull it back together through tactics and teamwork is fantastic fun.
When the quest ends and your like "I don't know how we pulled that off. Heck yea Good job all"

Even better is when its one player's time to shine and save the whole thing from going into the Sh!tter. You all know what I'm talking about.
When a solitary rogue sneaks his/her way back to the shrine with 5 stones in a backpack ( after disarming the trap that nobody heeded dispite the spamming of chat.)
A FvS that singlehandedly rezzs the whole party while destroying an ungodly mob.

I will never forget seeing a lone Ranger (lol) finish off Harry's last 15% after a mostly wipe in part 4.
I don't know how the heck she did it but you dont get that kind of achivement by never being a part of those fail groups.

porq
08-06-2010, 11:03 AM
It has never been requested of me to show my "beater".

I think that I'm going to have to get a couple of the silver flame club's from deleras that I can link up in the event of this happening........just because I find it fun:)

I've joined a couple pugs too that asked to 'link bb' in the comments but nobody asks once I've joined. It's like they see other shroud groups saying it, then stick it in their lfms without any thought to what it actually means


For the rare ones that do ask when I'm playing my fighter/monk, I link them my minII shuriken, because that's utterly hilarious. :D


One pug leader commented:

"Well, it is technically a boss beater..."
"I want to see how you do with it in part 4 and 5"

mystafyi
08-06-2010, 11:32 AM
This is insane..For normal runs, more then 2 healers is a waste(most times you only need 1 fvs). 1 arcane is nice for wailing. If ya got 3 healers and 2 arcanes in yer pug group its looking bad already ;) Ive completed shroud runs on orien with mah fvs being the only caster (arcane or divine). sleepy boring shroud normal runs ....

Bloodstealer
08-06-2010, 11:56 AM
This is insane..For normal runs, more then 2 healers is a waste(most times you only need 1 fvs). 1 arcane is nice for wailing. If ya got 3 healers and 2 arcanes in yer pug group its looking bad already ;) Ive completed shroud runs on orien with mah fvs being the only caster (arcane or divine). sleepy boring shroud normal runs ....

This is the basis of what I was saying and whole heartedly agree - tho ELITE runs tend to be as Carpone says (more selective) - its not really all about ur boss beaters - its about the leader planning out and yes selecting the appropriate grouping make up, but equally making sure that players are made aware of what their rols are and is to be expected in order for the raid to be siuccessful - its a simple 60 second run thro before each part to explain what you will be facing, the tactics to be deployed, the buffs needed - just in case there are some new or lesser experienced raiders in party - you will be amazed how much it can save you from using all those pots and scrolls and the riad will tend to run alot smoother no matter if ur DPS is maybe a little under weighted.

Carpone - I do not see you as a jerk, and I certainly haven't called you one, in fact the only person I have read saying this about you.... is you.
But neither do I blame you for being selective, afterall my experience of this server is only 2 months or so, so I haven't maybe gotten the bigger picture yet, tho I have seen some pretty ugly low level quests to date, which may suggest there is a huge responsibiliy of the guild leaders / officers to step up to the plate and start imparting some experience (thats of course if many of the guilds actually have that experience in their leaders / officers in the first place).
If you are not actually interested in Pugging things then so be it, no one forces your hand here, so keep it in guild or in channel or in a close nit community that you feel confident wont hinder your success.

But... if you ever need pots and scrolls, just send me a tell or message in game and I will be more than happy to pass you over a few for free.... just in case :)

Bloodstealer
08-06-2010, 12:02 PM
I've joined a couple pugs too that asked to 'link bb' in the comments but nobody asks once I've joined. It's like they see other shroud groups saying it, then stick it in their lfms without any thought to what it actually means


For the rare ones that do ask when I'm playing my fighter/monk, I link them my minII shuriken, because that's utterly hilarious. :D


One pug leader commented:

"Well, it is technically a boss beater..."
"I want to see how you do with it in part 4 and 5"

ROFLMAO...

But noooo everyone knows its Clubs of the Holy Flame FTW :)

Aikou
08-06-2010, 12:02 PM
This is insane..For normal runs, more then 2 healers is a waste(most times you only need 1 fvs). 1 arcane is nice for wailing. If ya got 3 healers and 2 arcanes in yer pug group its looking bad already ;) Ive completed shroud runs on orien with mah fvs being the only caster (arcane or divine). sleepy boring shroud normal runs ....

Really it depends on how solid the toons are in the group. It's been said earlier in this thread I believe that the boss beater linking is done merely to show that they can provide an ample amount of DPS. Along with BB links of people I don't know I also skim over their my.ddo and check their HP, fortification and make sure that their allignment matches the weapon they're linking me.
[
Edit: And yes, I know it's perfectly capable of solo healing it, not just with a single FvS, I've done it as a cleric, but it really depends on the group you're given. If it's a solid group with a good amount of HP on everyone, you can finish part 5 with 3/4 of your SP bar even as a cleric with the right gear
]

That said, it's only when I'm PUGging it that I actually do this. I've had guild groups complete with 7 FvS, others groups with five arcanes (which was probably the fastest Pt4 I've ever seen, >45 seconds, blades weren't even close), if you know the people you're running with and know they can aptly contribute and know their roles, the point of checking BBs is almost pointless, the thing is the majority of the server doesn't have that kind of know how. Each time I PUG it I almost invariably run into someone who just finished flagging their first toon, it's their first server and they have no idea what to expect inside the raid even. That's when it becomes a problem, and that's why you typically want to check the BBs of names you don't recognize.

Nobody here is trying to say that you should screen everyone, everytime, but if you're leading numerous shrouds on regular occasions, you should be getting to know the player base that you're letting into your groups if you expect to complete in a reasonable manner. If you get familiar with a good base of players and have a decent number of them in your group, it likely doesn't matter who you take after that, but most of the people who lead shrouds don't have that sort of familiarity, and I'm not sure anyone leads enough of them to really establish that sort of familiarity anymore. I know back when a guildmate of mine was running a lot them he was familiar with who had boss beaters and who didn't, so if he got someone he was familiar with he'd just outright accept them. I did the same thing when I was leading a lot of them (Aikou, Azlynn, Aishiru & Alcine).

I realize this may seem pointless, but I'm sure everyone on Orien has joined one of those PUGs where it was led by someone you weren't familiar with, they didn't require you to link boss beaters, and then the group falls apart in Pt1 or Pt2. It's sad to see the difference between a capable group and one of those groups, where the capable group can simply kill everything outright in part 2 rather than prepare everything, because they have the DPS. This whole thread is just an emphasis that people need to be mindful of the fact that there is a large disparity between the experienced player base on this server and those who walk into the shroud for their first time on their first toon, completely unprepared, gathered no information on the raid, didn't tell the raid leader this was their first time and they proceed to go 'above and beyond the call of newbiehood' and FUBAR the raid as a result.

Bloodstealer
08-06-2010, 12:11 PM
Just to point out you can carry whatever BB you like, plus have your Minos Helm and adequate Hp - it still doesn't ensure you to being an effective group member. These are just tools - if your toon build and playstyle is poor, and you choose not to listen / learn and run round like a headless chicken then you still beome a pocket toon most of the way - these toons become lost souls in this game quite quickly and to this end I will agree with the OP entirely.

Crann
08-06-2010, 01:00 PM
Just to point out you can carry whatever BB you like, plus have your Minos Helm and adequate Hp - it still doesn't ensure you to being an effective group member.

You are correct.

But if someone takes the time and puts forth the effort to obtain these items, and is actually reading these posts researching what is needed for the raid, odds are they are going to be far more valuable than someone who piked their way to level 16, and still has no idea about the basics of the game.

Their equipment isn't an exact indicator of their ability, but it is some indication.

Cupcake
08-06-2010, 03:17 PM
I've joined a couple pugs too that asked to 'link bb' in the comments but nobody asks once I've joined. It's like they see other shroud groups saying it, then stick it in their lfms without any thought to what it actually means


For the rare ones that do ask when I'm playing my fighter/monk, I link them my minII shuriken, because that's utterly hilarious. :D


One pug leader commented:

"Well, it is technically a boss beater..."
"I want to see how you do with it in part 4 and 5"

Now that made me laugh LOL.

Cupcake
08-06-2010, 03:23 PM
You are correct.

But if someone takes the time and puts forth the effort to obtain these items, and is actually reading these posts researching what is needed for the raid, odds are they are going to be far more valuable than someone who piked their way to level 16, and still has no idea about the basics of the game.

Their equipment isn't an exact indicator of their ability, but it is some indication.

Dear Crann, I agree with the sentence I highlighted. Because anyone can farm for items/equipment/gear. Farming does not make one a better play6er.

However, taking the time to research items needed, how to complete the quest, etc. Then I agree they become valuable because they showed initiative.

unscythe
08-06-2010, 05:07 PM
Look like it is getting down to- its the player, and not the toon-.


Anyways, my first shroud was a farm. I dont remember it too well, but it was either to part 4 or 5, and then I f/o since I was told you needed to start farming for mats. It was a good learning experience.

Bloodstealer
08-06-2010, 06:17 PM
Look like it is getting down to- its the player, and not the toon-.


Anyways, my first shroud was a farm. I dont remember it too well, but it was either to part 4 or 5, and then I f/o since I was told you needed to start farming for mats. It was a good learning experience.

Agree -
I think over the last 12 months Shroud raiding has become more and more a farm fest - Prt 1, Prt 4 over and over until your ransacked in the chests. Therefore geting ur MIN II's and Lightning stikes etc etc have become somewhat faster than what we all did in the old Shroud days - even tho fundementally nothing has actually changed, just players attitudes to get things quicker ready for TR'ing etc..

My first Shroud was not to long after it first appeared. We had devil, orthon and Gnoll - which back then spelt.. holy begeeessus :)
the tactics of pulling devil away from the rest so others cud be pulled without being seen was still a distant dream, so yes mayhem ruled the day there but luckily the group didnt suffer long, tho the poor clerics I think were scared off for life... errrm wait I was one of those clerics..... if only I'd taken pots and scrolls with me, it could of been so different :)

unscythe
08-06-2010, 07:47 PM
I would think of the farmign as catching up. Since the server is relatively new compared to others, so people feel the need to have GS and see what it can do.

Crann
08-06-2010, 09:45 PM
Completed my first shroud 2 hours ago....it was pretty confusing....only for me it seemed, but very cool.

3 arcanes.....3 healers........and very nearly 1 rounded Harry in Pt. 4

No check for BB's either, rare for any PUG's I've seen in the LFM's here.

Couldn't imagine that it gets any easier than the run I was on.....hope its success wasn't a fluke.

Crann
08-06-2010, 09:48 PM
...anyone can farm for items/equipment/gear. Farming does not make one a better play6er...

It doesn't, but it can be an indication that someone has put more effort into their character than someone who is not properly equipped.

porq
08-06-2010, 10:33 PM
Completed my first shroud 2 hours ago....it was pretty confusing....only for me it seemed, but very cool.

3 arcanes.....3 healers........and very nearly 1 rounded Harry in Pt. 4

No check for BB's either, rare for any PUG's I've seen in the LFM's here.

Couldn't imagine that it gets any easier than the run I was on.....hope its success wasn't a fluke.

If most of the group were from the same guild, I wouldn't be surprised. Semi-guild runs always seem to be like that, even if you're the pugger they pick up to fill the last spot.

unscythe
08-06-2010, 11:54 PM
Completed my first shroud 2 hours ago....it was pretty confusing....only for me it seemed, but very cool.

3 arcanes.....3 healers........and very nearly 1 rounded Harry in Pt. 4

No check for BB's either, rare for any PUG's I've seen in the LFM's here.

Couldn't imagine that it gets any easier than the run I was on.....hope its success wasn't a fluke.

Really? Your first shroud ever? Congrats if so, I see your join date, and think that youmay have tried sooner.

Bloodstealer
08-07-2010, 05:03 AM
Completed my first shroud 2 hours ago....it was pretty confusing....only for me it seemed, but very cool.

3 arcanes.....3 healers........and very nearly 1 rounded Harry in Pt. 4

No check for BB's either, rare for any PUG's I've seen in the LFM's here.

Couldn't imagine that it gets any easier than the run I was on.....hope its success wasn't a fluke.

3 Healers on norm or hard is such overkill. But if you did Prt 4 in pretty much 1 round then it sounds like maybe you joined maybe an experienced bunch of questers who run it often or maybe a semi guild run.
Either way it worked to your advantage and gratz on ur first completion.... but what took you so long getting there?

Crann
08-07-2010, 10:27 AM
Yup, first shroud ever.....my altitis is probably the most to blame, I think I have 6 toons over 12 now.

Haven't been in much of a hurry tho....I have been enjoying the game, leveling at least one character for each role, and experimenting with different builds. Most of my time has been playing solo, or Pugging.

Real life has gotten in the way of committing time during the week, and I play with a great bunch of guys on weekend morning in a semi-staic group who is now reaching Vale-content.

As for the run, I think there were 2 people in the same guild. Another 2 might have also been guildmates from another group. It was a pretty laid back group of people, lead by Pastlife, and I thank him and them for taking along an unknown newb :)

Bloodstealer
08-07-2010, 10:52 AM
Yup, first shroud ever.....my altitis is probably the most to blame, I think I have 6 toons over 12 now.

Haven't been in much of a hurry tho....I have been enjoying the game, leveling at least one character for each role, and experimenting with different builds. Most of my time has been playing solo, or Pugging.

Real life has gotten in the way of committing time during the week, and I play with a great bunch of guys on weekend morning in a semi-staic group who is now reaching Vale-content.

As for the run, I think there were 2 people in the same guild. Another 2 might have also been guildmates from another group. It was a pretty laid back group of people, lead by Pastlife, and I thank him and them for taking along an unknown newb :)

Dang you know what ur missing to overcome that RL stuff - yip a darn good BOSS BEATER :)
Good to know the run was well lead and not too serious... tis a game after all.
Actually I agree with taking ur time to learn the game and the mechancs behind ur toons, its actually all to easy to disregard those kinda things and just charge in half witted and then get flamed for not knowing better - hats off to you.

unscythe
08-07-2010, 12:15 PM
Yup, first shroud ever.....my altitis is probably the most to blame, I think I have 6 toons over 12 now.

Haven't been in much of a hurry tho....I have been enjoying the game, leveling at least one character for each role, and experimenting with different builds. Most of my time has been playing solo, or Pugging.

Real life has gotten in the way of committing time during the week, and I play with a great bunch of guys on weekend morning in a semi-staic group who is now reaching Vale-content.

As for the run, I think there were 2 people in the same guild. Another 2 might have also been guildmates from another group. It was a pretty laid back group of people, lead by Pastlife, and I thank him and them for taking along an unknown newb :)

Grats on your first shroud, I spent much of my time doing the same thing. I love testing out the different builds and classes of the game.

Crann
08-08-2010, 04:56 PM
It's been an interesting weekend. Got into 2nd completely pug Shroud, and It was about as smooth as the first. I was the only arcane this time...but the leader and some others were patient and gave clear advice and concise directions.

I was told I should have knock if I plan on running Shroud again, but was also advised against it. Any advice there? Really cant decide which of Resist Energy, Web, Ooze Puppet, or Scorching Ray I can live without at the moment.

My 3rd attempt, however, was another story. Not much organization, and no further direction once things went pear shaped in the second part.

I can see the need for some selectiveness, as it has become clear to me that this Raid can really expose weaker builds, and people who don't follow....or give...directions well can really wreck a quest.

TrinityTurtle
08-08-2010, 05:11 PM
I was told I should have knock if I plan on running Shroud again, but was also advised against it. Any advice there? Really cant decide which of Resist Energy, Web, Ooze Puppet, or Scorching Ray I can live without at the moment.


If you're a wizard, drop ooze puppet for shroud, it's not helpful in that particular raid. You can take it back after.

If you're a sorc, and changing spells is a bigger deal, the answer is simple. Keep a stack of scrolls. Knock is a low level scroll, easily obtained through a vendor, and just take a stack in with you when you run and use them. No need to change out spells as a sorc for a single quest when they are available at public scroll vendors. Or wands, if you're not overly fond of scrolls, also a good option.

Crann
08-09-2010, 07:11 AM
Keep a stack of scrolls. Knock is a low level scroll, easily obtained through a vendor, and just take a stack in with you when you run and use them. No need to change out spells as a sorc for a single quest when they are available at public scroll vendors. Or wands, if you're not overly fond of scrolls, also a good option.

I asked and was told that wands/scrolls would not open the doors in part 3. Are you saying they do?

I am a Sorc.....character's in the sig (synged, if you can't see it) and I would really rather keep Ooze puppet because I have been and would like to continue assisting in some Sub-T icy runs...kinda paying it forward for a group that helped my exploiter get his Icy Raiments.

Bloodstealer
08-09-2010, 07:41 AM
I asked and was told that wands/scrolls would not open the doors in part 3. Are you saying they do?

I am a Sorc.....character's in the sig (synged, if you can't see it) and I would really rather keep Ooze puppet because I have been and would like to continue assisting in some Sub-T icy runs...kinda paying it forward for a group that helped my exploiter get his Icy Raiments.

Hi Crann,

Agree knock is useful but kinda limited with a scorchy - easier for the Wiz to load it up.

Using scrolls or wands is a tuffy for the doors on prt 3 - I have known scorchies to fail them on 20 so not sure if they will be of any use unless u have your wands / scroll heightening enhancements topped up, which tbh I think would be rare for a scorchy as well.
The grp normally will have a rogue of some description in it, even if its just a splash level somewhere - yes rogues are actually a good DPS class as well people, if you build them right (sorry just a rant there :) ).

Anyhow grats on your second run - the third only further proves the point that leadership is crucial if you are taking new or lesser experienced players into raids. A good leader will always think of their grp balance, which in itself is being selective not neceessarily becuase they have linked boss beaters. By the way - I tend to only take one caster into shrouds anyhow with one or 2 clerics - depending on the WF element :). A bard is a win win addition in a nice shroud run as well - nice buffs, healing support if reqd and some decent dps if they are the right kind of bard. Rest just melee, with a splash rogue somewhere in the mix.
Obviously ELITE runs you need to think a little more end game so maybe 3 clerics in there and selective DPS as this thread has already beaten to death.