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View Full Version : Has anyone come up with a nice Monk/rogue multiclass that uses ninjaspy?



raxag0rer
07-06-2010, 05:55 AM
I am interested in doing this but do not know enough about either class to do it well, I was just curious if anyone had done up a build yet.

Syntax42
07-06-2010, 08:45 AM
A build like that is less effective. If you go 6 monk for ninja spy 1, you only get one sneak attack die and miss out on a potential 8 sneak attack die. If you go 12 monk, you miss out on high-end monk abilities and don't really get enough rogue stuff to make it worthwhile.

Aerendil
07-06-2010, 09:26 AM
13 Rog / 6 Mnk / last level your choice.

FuzzyDuck81
07-06-2010, 09:37 AM
i've been toying with the idea of a 13 rogue/6 monk/1 whatever as a saboteur-type build taking mechanic2 & ninja spy1, using shortswords in melee, repeaters as a ranged option & grenades/traps too - maybe make the 1 extra level wizard (extend as the bonus metamagic) & go as elf for race with the 1st 2 shadow dragonmarks for extended displacement... could potentially be a very versatile rogue build with great trap abilities, decent damage through sneak attacks etc. and some good melee survivability through Shadow Fade & displacement.

will probably try putting together one in the char builder when i get home from work

Plutocracy
07-06-2010, 09:50 AM
Good splits for these are:

1) 13rog/6monk/1fighter- 11 feats, improved evasion+crippling strike, 8d6+12 sneak attack (+2d6 if assassin), +1 monk AC, Tier II monk stances, monk speed II, fastest sneaking in game (+60%), rogue hasteboost IV, 10% healing amp

Could go assassin II PrE with rogue here for extra 2d6 sneak attack, or thief-acrobat II for slip/trip immunity and quarterstaff speed/dex bonus to sneak attack, and super super movement speed.

2) 12monk/7rogue/1fighter - 11 feats+free improved crit: piercing, improved evasion, 7d6+9 sneak attack(+1d6 if assassin), +2 monk AC, Tier III monk stances, touch of death, immunity to poison, monk speed IV, Rogue hasteboost III, 30% healing amp

Pure rogues get 14d6+12 sneak attack (up to 17d6+12 with assassin), so if you want to do best DPS pure rogue is best. BUT, monk gives huge bonus to saving throws, AC, movement, immunities, healing amp, feats, and ki strikes.

Best DPS will be pure rogue, but a sturdier faster build will be one of these ninja spy builds. If you want to be a quarterstaff user, go with option 1) and take thief acrobat. If you want to be a shortsword user, option 1) or 2) are both good.

Aerendil
07-06-2010, 09:59 AM
Good splits for these are:

1) 13rog/6monk/1fighter- 11 feats, improved evasion+crippling strike, 8d6+12 sneak attack, +2 monk AC, Tier II monk stances, monk speed II, fastest sneaking in game (+60%), rogue hasteboost IV, 10% healing amp

2) 12monk/7rogue/1fighter - 11 feats+free improved crit: piercing, improved evasion, 7d6+9 sneak attack, +3 monk AC, Tier III monk stances, touch of death, immunity to poison, monk speed IV, Rogue hasteboost III, 30% healing amp


Fixed above. Monk centered bonuses are at 2, 5, 10, 15, 20. So /6 monk = +2 ac; /12 = +3.

And yeah, the splits above come down to whether or not you see yourself using shortswords primarily, or handwraps.
A /12 Monk split = ToD which = handwraps only. You'd be silly to pass that up.

The 13/6/1 split can also pick up Assassin II for an extra +2d6 sneak dice, and a reasonably ok Assassinate DC (23 + int mod, so not too bad. With a bit of work you could have a 28-29ish DC, which might get a few things in the Vale).

Not a big fan of the mechanic combo, as crossbows would uncenter you, and trapsmithing isn't viable enough yet to be a full-time saboteur.

honkuimushi
07-06-2010, 10:03 AM
I'm wondering if a Monk 12/ Ranger 6/ Fighter 2 or Ranger 12/ Monk 6 / Fighter 2 combining Sneak Attack from NS, items, and Halfling racials and reacing a simulated 20 BAB would be better in the long run.

Drow could be interesting as well with their short sword enhancements and the possibility of Sneak Attack from Scorpion Wraith in the future.

They wouldn't have trap skills, but they should have stealth, decent sneak attack full attack speed and bonus double strikes and a Decent AC to boot.

Kale_Hagan
07-06-2010, 10:05 AM
Good splits for these are:

1) 13rog/6monk/1fighter- 11 feats, improved evasion+crippling strike, 8d6+12 sneak attack, +1 monk AC, Tier II monk stances, monk speed II, fastest sneaking in game (+60%), rogue hasteboost IV, 10% healing amp

2) 12monk/7rogue/1fighter - 11 feats+free improved crit: piercing, improved evasion, 7d6+9 sneak attack, +2 monk AC, Tier III monk stances, touch of death, immunity to poison, monk speed IV, Rogue hasteboost III, 30% healing amp

Pure rogues get 14d6+12 sneak attack, so if you want to do best DPS pure rogue is best. BUT, monk gives huge bonus to saving throws, AC, movement, immunities, healing amp, feats, and ki strikes.

Best DPS will be pure rogue, but a sturdier faster build will be one of these ninja spy builds.

Actually, pure rogues with deadly shadow capstone get 17d6 sneak attack if you go Assassin III.

Vissarion
07-06-2010, 10:08 AM
What Plutocracy said. Those seem to be the two best class splits for a Ninja Spy build. I prefer the 12 Monk/7 Rogue/1 Fighter for the better base unarmed damage, Touch of Death, and Tier III stances.

I went Halfling and weapon finesse, since otherwise the stats can be kinda tricky. I also prefer a pretty good INT for rogue skills, but ditching those for better other stats is fine too. These were my stats:

Str: 12 (+1 tome needed for Power Attack)
Dex: 16 (Level ups here)
Con: 16 (For easy access to Earth strike III)
Int: 14 (Rogue skills and combat expertise)
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

For skills, I keep UMD, Concentration, Search, and Disable Device maxed. I keep Hide and Move Silently close to max (with Monk speed and Ninja spy/Rogue sneak speed boosts, you move pretty fast stealthed). Spot, Balance, Jump, and Open Locks get the remaining points, and all end up at a pretty decent level.

Feats are: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Toughness x2, Weapon Finesse, Skill Focus: UMD, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Dodge, and Improved Critical: Bludgeoning

The key with the 12/7/1 build is to use unarmed attacks, since these will almost always be better DPS than using Short Swords. Unarmed has a better base attack speed, and you can use Touch of Death, which is of course awesome. Short Swords give you a little flexibility, so that if you can't find DR-bypassing handwraps, you have a fallback option, and they also open up the possibility of crafting Radiance Short Swords for good synergy with your sneak attack dice (8d6 + 17 for this build).

You also get exceptional saves (especially reflex), heal scroll level UMD, nice immunities, Monk run speed, and a pretty solid AC if AC is the kind of thing you care about (if it isn't, Combat Expertise can be dropped).

Aerendil has a good 13 Rogue/6 Monk/1 other build here, if that's more your preferred flavor: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=258380

Good luck, and have fun!

countesscrow
07-06-2010, 10:13 AM
I am interested in doing this but do not know enough about either class to do it well, I was just curious if anyone had done up a build yet.

I am building a 2 monk, 6 radiant aura cleric and 12 acrobat rogue.

Front line all the time healing!!

Actually thats how I imagine Shintao Monks should be. Aura of healing.

prybar
07-06-2010, 11:03 AM
Could go assassin II PrE with rogue here for extra 2d6 sneak attack, or thief-acrobat II for slip/trip immunity and quarterstaff speed/dex bonus to sneak attack, and super super movement speed.


Can't do Acrobat with Ninja Spy due to overlapping tumble enhancements unfortunately. That would be one wicked build however. You can still do Assassin or Mechanic with Ninja Spy. Or Acrobat with Shintao (or nothing at all). I currently have a 12/7 rogue monk using q-tips that's a lot of fun to play. Will eventually LR into 13/6/1 rogue monk fighter. If Shintao revamp turns into something useful, I have a placeholder Toughness feat to swap out.

Hurak
07-06-2010, 06:41 PM
have a halfling 12/5 monk/rogue ninja atm and it is a fun build

Str: 14 (All skill up here)
Dex: 15 (+2 tome at 7)
Con: 14
Int: 13 (+1 tome at 4)
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

Xyfiel
07-06-2010, 09:32 PM
I went 12monk/6ranger/2rogue Drow which should become popular when Scorpion Wraith is released in 2014.

raxag0rer
07-06-2010, 09:41 PM
Thanks for all the replies, I'm still not sure what I want to do, but I've got alot of good ideas now.

Orrowan
07-08-2010, 10:42 AM
I went 12monk/6ranger/2rogue Drow which should become popular when Scorpion Wraith is released in 2014.

I've just been working out something similar, and came here to see if anyone knew:

Does rogue haste boost stack with tempest and air stance? DDOwiki doesn't seem to know what type of bonus the haste boost gives...

Aerendil
07-08-2010, 10:57 AM
I've just been working out something similar, and came here to see if anyone knew:

Does rogue haste boost stack with tempest and air stance? DDOwiki doesn't seem to know what type of bonus the haste boost gives...

Keep in mind that with U5, tempest haste no longer exists.
Tempest now offers improved offhand swing chances (+10% for tier 1 and 2) or doublestrike chance (5% at tier 3).

And the air stance haste no longer stacks with the haste spell, so the maximum regular haste for any character (aside from acrobats) will be 15% now.

The clicky hastes from rogue or fighter will stack with this, though.

Orrowan
07-08-2010, 11:28 AM
I did not know that. That was kinda 3/4 of the point of going ranger 6 to tempest I.

I guess I should go peruse the ranger forums instead, but any gut feeling on whether tempest is still worth it? I'm not really clear on what +10% offhand swing chance means (+10% to hit? +10% chance for another swing each rotation?) I really wanted to build a DW longsword monk, and I was looking at 6 ranger for the 2WF feats instead of just a couple of levels of fighter, essentially because Tempest I sounded good on paper... now I'm not so sure.

Drakos
07-08-2010, 11:35 AM
I did not know that. That was kinda 3/4 of the point of going ranger 6 to tempest I.

I guess I should go peruse the ranger forums instead, but any gut feeling on whether tempest is still worth it? I'm not really clear on what +10% offhand swing chance means (+10% to hit? +10% chance for another swing each rotation?) I really wanted to build a DW longsword monk, and I was looking at 6 ranger for the 2WF feats instead of just a couple of levels of fighter, essentially because Tempest I sounded good on paper... now I'm not so sure.
It means an additional 10% chance to generate an off-hand attack. So if you have all the TWF feats and Tempest I you are at 90% chance to generate an off-hand attack with each primary attack. Tempest II takes it to 100% chance.

Aerendil
07-08-2010, 11:44 AM
It means an additional 10% chance to generate an off-hand attack. So if you have all the TWF feats and Tempest I you are at 90% chance to generate an off-hand attack with each primary attack. Tempest II takes it to 100% chance.

Correct.

For reference, the TWF line was changed to:

No TWF feats = 100% chance to swing your main-hand weapon per attack; 20% chance to swing your off-hand weapon per attack.

TWF = 100% / 40%

ITWF = 100% / 60%

GTWF = 100% / 80%.

So most characters will now be at 100/80, which is a bit of a dps drop for some. However, double-strike was introduced which somewhat offsets this dps loss. For some classes, such as dark monks with ToD, I think we've seen a definite dps increase due to this.

Tempest I and II offer +10% per tier to offhand attacks, so /12 Ranger will be the only way to guarantee that you swing both mainhand and offhand with every attack.

Orrowan
07-08-2010, 06:30 PM
Ah; interesting. So, if we assume that the offhand has the same base damage as the main (which isn't totally ludicrous, if your +hit is high enough that you don't miss much) then Tempest I should add about 5% to your DPS:

190%/180% = 1.055

Thats not bad, really. Probably doesn't offset losing 6 levels of monk - compared to a pure monk - but I was kind of set on the longsword monk idea anyways, which doesn't take much advantage of high-end monk stuff. And compared to 12 monk 7 rogue its what? 3d6+6 less sneak attack? (someone above worked that build out to be 7d6+9, and with both ninja enhancements, I figure 12/6/1 monk/ranger/rogue at 4d6+3). A 5% boost will be less, but I wouldn't have thought cripplingly so, and at least it scales with gear, unlike sneak attacks. Like I say, he doesn't have to be perfect, just hopefully not useless. I'm thinking something like this:


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

RangerMonk
Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(13 Monk \ 1 Rogue \ 6 Ranger)
Hit Points: 240
Spell Points: 70
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 20
Will: 13

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 20
Dexterity 16 20
Constitution 14 14
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 14 17
Charisma 8 8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 19

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 3 10
Bluff -1 -1
Concentration 6 25
Diplomacy -1 -1
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle -1 2
Heal 6 8
Hide 7 22
Intimidate -1 -1
Jump 7 30
Listen 2 5
Move Silently 7 22
- Show quoted text -
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair -1 -1
Search -1 1
Spot 2 5
Swim 3 5
Tumble n/a 8
Use Magic Device n/a n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored
Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus:
Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
Melee Damage I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger
Dexterity I


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Whirling Steel
Strike
Enhancement: Monk Jump I
Enhancement: Monk Tumble I


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Way of the
Clever Monkey I
Enhancement: Void Strike I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste
Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster
Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak
Attack Training I


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two
Weapon Fighting


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored
Enemy: Chaotic Outsider


Level 8 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored
Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity
II
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger
Dexterity II


Level 10 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of
Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
Enhancement: Monk Jump II
Enhancement: Monk Tumble II


Level 11 (Monk)
Enhancement: Aerenal Elf
Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Static Charge


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved
Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the
Clever Monkey II
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Adept of Wind


Level 14 (Monk)
Enhancement: All-Consuming
Flame
Enhancement: Winter's Touch


Level 15 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two
Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Porous Soul


Level 16 (Monk)
Enhancement: Way of the
Clever Monkey III
Enhancement: Touch of Death


Level 17 (Monk)
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Rain


Level 18 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Master of Thunder


Level 19 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy II
Enhancement: Master of
Bonfires


Level 20 (Monk)
Enhancement: Master of the Sea
Enhancement: Rogue Improved
Trap Sense I



No real idea what to take for the last level - nothing much I want, but monk gets some spell resist at 13?

Xyfiel
07-08-2010, 11:10 PM
I went 2rogue to cover all trapsmithing skills, Umd, and stealth.

If going ninja spy you already have dodge, making tempest require 2 feats for +4 to hit when moving, +2 shield AC when twf, and ~5% dps. 6Ranger already gives twf/itwf/rapid shot/manyshot/diehard, rams might, early healing wand access, and some favored enemy damage.

If going handwraps, pure Monk is better. I wanted to use shortswords, specifically radience II, so 6Ranger fit well. Since I also wanted Drow, and Scorpion Wraith counts as a Rogue PrE, I chose against 13monk/7rogue or 13rogue/7monk. I believe Drow will overtake halfling and WF on damage when the PrE is released, emphasis on when...

d3ftblade
07-08-2010, 11:44 PM
I am building a 2 monk, 6 radiant aura cleric and 12 acrobat rogue.

Front line all the time healing!!

Actually thats how I imagine Shintao Monks should be. Aura of healing.

Would u mind sharing this build with us??? I'm curious now... Sounds like a great concept. Just curious on how the execution will go.

Failedlegend
10-04-2010, 09:57 PM
Good splits for these are:

1) 13rog/6monk/1fighter- 11 feats, improved evasion+crippling strike, 8d6+12 sneak attack (+2d6 if assassin), +1 monk AC, Tier II monk stances, monk speed II, fastest sneaking in game (+60%), rogue hasteboost IV, 10% healing amp

Could go assassin II PrE with rogue here for extra 2d6 sneak attack, or thief-acrobat II for slip/trip immunity and quarterstaff speed/dex bonus to sneak attack, and super super movement speed.

2) 12monk/7rogue/1fighter - 11 feats+free improved crit: piercing, improved evasion, 7d6+9 sneak attack(+1d6 if assassin), +2 monk AC, Tier III monk stances, touch of death, immunity to poison, monk speed IV, Rogue hasteboost III, 30% healing amp

Pure rogues get 14d6+12 sneak attack (up to 17d6+12 with assassin), so if you want to do best DPS pure rogue is best. BUT, monk gives huge bonus to saving throws, AC, movement, immunities, healing amp, feats, and ki strikes.

Best DPS will be pure rogue, but a sturdier faster build will be one of these ninja spy builds. If you want to be a quarterstaff user, go with option 1) and take thief acrobat. If you want to be a shortsword user, option 1) or 2) are both good.

You forgot 13Rogue/7Monk

Orrowan
10-05-2010, 10:14 AM
I've got this guy up to level 15 (see build posted above) so I guess its worth telling folks that hes doing quite well for himself. The way the build has worked out, I don't hit things hard, I just hit them a LOT. With 90% offhand strike and essentially permanent haste from wind stance II, I swing like crazy. Pair this up with weapons that have a small chance of a very useful effect, like paralyze, and you get the effect proccing all the time.

No, he is not the statistically perfect dps machine; yes, its definitely a viable build. And fun to play!