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Kale_Hagan
06-29-2010, 10:43 AM
Ok, so I'm contemplating converting my Light monk to a Dark Ninja Spy. I don't see why I should stay Light since Shintao doesn't work.

Any pros or cons that I might need to know? The only reservation I have is my self-healing ability, but I'm keeping the halfling dragon marks feats.

I'll still have up to Greater two weapon fighting, improved crit bludgeoning, power attack, stunning fist, and Toughness.

I'm trying to gear towards an end-game epic capable character.

Potvin
06-29-2010, 12:46 PM
imho, if you are level 20, there aren't many good reasons to stay light. I'm staying light under the premise the buffs will be helpful to raids, but I'm on the fence.

Way more reasons to go dark. I don't think self-healing even matters in end game. It helps for solo farming normal quests but that's it. In a raid, your healing is meaningless. In epic content, same.

Delacroix21
06-29-2010, 12:57 PM
Light is still fun, though I agree it needs a further dps buff.


If you are looking to do dps you should never go light anyway, as light should NEVER equal dark dps (then why would people go dark?). There are still so fun options as a human light monk with massive self healing (I have 2 capped monks) but beyond that Shintao definately needs some dps love through buffing of smites.

Hydro
06-29-2010, 01:03 PM
Dark = Highest DPS in the game
Light = Buffs that are uneeded but can be usefull for "weaker" groups

Sorry to be blunt but the 60% DPS difference of Dark vs. Light, makes light a really bad choice in my opinion.

Go Go 500-1500 points of damage every 15 seconds, suck on that every other melee class!

Potvin
06-29-2010, 01:17 PM
Dark = Highest DPS in the game
Light = Buffs that are uneeded but can be usefull for "weaker" groups

Sorry to be blunt but the 60% DPS difference of Dark vs. Light, makes light a really bad choice in my opinion.

Go Go 500-1500 points of damage every 15 seconds, suck on that every other melee class!

This was kinda my thought process, at least for end game. My guild is extremely strong, and I've always felt like the buffs don't end up mattering.

However, I don't care how much DPS you can get, going dark for leveling strikes me as considerably more difficult (or at least, more time consuming) then light side. The healing ki makes all the difference especially if on a largely solo-track.

Hydro
06-29-2010, 01:22 PM
I have leveled my monk twice, first time I didnt take TOD until I hit 15 and I noticed my D0SP was lacking behind all the Carnies with Shroud weapons. Second time I took it at level 9, best choice I could ever make.

When you run through Von 3 at level 10 and one shot 3 different beholders in the beholder room, when you one shot the Wiz King, when you one shot undead and golems, you will understand how awesome touch of death is while leveling.

While leveling you never really have enough ki to reliably do finishers, the light punch is the most you will reliably have ki to keep up 80% of the time.

So for me personally I just saved my ki and would just one shot trash or a boss every 15-30 seconds. Dead mobs equal less damage to me so less healing needed.

Syntax42
06-29-2010, 01:28 PM
Light monks got shafted horribly this patch. The PrE is just about useless. The void:light:void finisher is much worse than dark's version. At the same time, dark monks got great sneak attack damage and a charm monster finisher. Henshin needs to offer something great for light monks or they need to rework Shintao.

Will_Ferrer
06-29-2010, 01:30 PM
agreed, if you are level 20 and geared up you don't need it anymore. I have a healing amp Human Monk that Ive gear up for that purpose. She heals herself very well 2-4 for hit and even 2-5 if I fight in fire stance. That being said unless you have put a lot of focus into the light ability you should convert or at at least begin gearing up for dark.

As it stands now the light path is just a band aid until you get all the gear you want/need. They mentioned that they will be changing the Shintao PrC (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?&postid=3064861#post3064861) for Update 7, so dont throw it all away but that will likely be many months from now, no need to miss out on the dark DPS. I'm pretty sure that by then there will be many many more dark monks and it will have to be pretty awesome to bring us into the light once more.

oweieie
06-29-2010, 01:31 PM
Ok, so I'm contemplating converting my Light monk to a Dark Ninja Spy. I don't see why I should stay Light since Shintao doesn't work.

Don't forget you're going to need dodge as well as dark in order to get Ninja Spy. This way Turbine gets $2 out of you for retraining shards instead of just $1 to go to dark.

Mobeius
06-29-2010, 01:54 PM
I stay light just for raids personally, but I was on the fence too until void strikes came out. I am still looking at other things with all of this but for now I am staying Light/Void and just skpping the Shintao PRE, which is complete junk even if they gave them Silver DR Bypass.

The void light finishers will probably be more useful in epic content and probably be expected to keep it going as much as possible for fights, lowering your DPS but greatly increasing the parties. Walk the Sun and Moment of Clarity is a +7 to Hit and Skills, granted only for ten seconds, but thats pretty nice.

Potvin
06-29-2010, 02:17 PM
I have leveled my monk twice, first time I didnt take TOD until I hit 15 and I noticed my D0SP was lacking behind all the Carnies with Shroud weapons. Second time I took it at level 9, best choice I could ever make.

When you run through Von 3 at level 10 and one shot 3 different beholders in the beholder room, when you one shot the Wiz King, when you one shot undead and golems, you will understand how awesome touch of death is while leveling.

While leveling you never really have enough ki to reliably do finishers, the light punch is the most you will reliably have ki to keep up 80% of the time.

So for me personally I just saved my ki and would just one shot trash or a boss every 15-30 seconds. Dead mobs equal less damage to me so less healing needed.

and how exactly did you manage to maintain the 50 ki base at lower to mid levels to afford firing this off so often? I'm kinda thinking back and the ki drops pretty quickly when not fighting before serenity. A (what do they call them now, inner focus?) item helps a lot, hell I still currently use one until I get tod rings...but being able to load up a touch of death hit seems to be more situational to me then you infer.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

Hydro
06-29-2010, 02:34 PM
and how exactly did you manage to maintain the 50 ki base at lower to mid levels to afford firing this off so often? I'm kinda thinking back and the ki drops pretty quickly when not fighting before serenity. A (what do they call them now, inner focus?) item helps a lot, hell I still currently use one until I get tod rings...but being able to load up a touch of death hit seems to be more situational to me then you infer.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

I found not using any strikes I would have enough ki for a TOD every 15-30 seconds, if I wanted to use TOD more I would just swap to fire stance.

Potvin
06-29-2010, 02:43 PM
I found not using any strikes I would have enough ki for a TOD every 15-30 seconds, if I wanted to use TOD more I would just swap to fire stance.

Fair enough - you did it. Admittedly, I was spamming healing strike all the time so my perception is skewed like that.

TPICKRELL
06-29-2010, 03:10 PM
However, I don't care how much DPS you can get, going dark for leveling strikes me as considerably more difficult (or at least, more time consuming) then light side. The healing ki makes all the difference especially if on a largely solo-track.I used to think this as well, but I'm not so sure now. My positive path monks all capped pretty easily.

But the only difference with the dark monk I'm now leveling is that he needed a hireling healer to solo content until he got wholeness. He kills things faster, especially named things which means less incoming damage, whic offsets much of the healnig curse/area heals damage.

I almost always take a healer with me for emergencies, but that's not really needed, just cheap insurance.

I'm finding the same thing with my Ranger... by the way, he solos very well with a healer as an emergency backup.

Before I new how to use and protect a hireling healer, I thought the light monk's solo ability was the best thing since sliced bread. Now I find it to be a little better and a little cheaper.

shadosatblackphoenix
06-29-2010, 06:50 PM
If you're crane, and have high wisdom for stunning fist or high strength for stunning blow, even before update 5, you basically had infinite ki on anything that could be stunned.

Even easier if you are fighting humanoid: the water -> dark -> water finisher (freezing blood) has a DC of half your level higher than stunning fist (its monk level + wisdom mod instead of half monk level. Now that we have weighted handwraps that work this isn't as relevent though, but it does give you a secondary "stun" type move), and lets you auto-crit too.

So on humanoid you would just do Stunning Fist -> Freeze the Lifeblood -> Touch of Death -> Repeat continually, and your bar would be maxed out yellow no matter your stance (even earth! XD)

Stun was the best way to maintain high ki, and it just got a whole lot better...

Talon_Moonshadow
06-29-2010, 06:55 PM
I'm thinking the same thing.

Mine's only 18 right now. I think I will wait till 20, then do a LR on him. he needs a major overhaul anyway.

Kale_Hagan
06-29-2010, 08:33 PM
Wow, lots of good info. Thanks all!