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Reos
06-24-2010, 01:34 PM
Fighter12/Monk8 - Benefit: Kensai II, Drawback: Lesser Wind Stance only.

Monk12/Fighter8 - Benefit: Greater Wind Stance, Drawback: Kensai I only.

Are these two essentially interchangeable? Please discuss how one would outperform the other, et al.

Dysmetria
06-24-2010, 01:39 PM
Fighter12/Monk8 - Benefit: Kensai II, Drawback: Lesser Wind Stance only.

Monk12/Fighter8 - Benefit: Greater Wind Stance, Drawback: Kensai I only.

Are these two essentially interchangeable? Please discuss how one would outperform the other, et al.What about Fighter6/Monk8/Ranger6? - Benefit: Tempest I, Drawback: Lesser Wind Stance and Kensai I only

Reos
06-24-2010, 02:11 PM
Isn't the offhand attack being removed in U5? I honestly don't know, but thought this was the case.

Plutocracy
06-24-2010, 02:39 PM
Fighter12/Monk8 - Benefit: Kensai II, Drawback: Lesser Wind Stance only.

Monk12/Fighter8 - Benefit: Greater Wind Stance, Drawback: Kensai I only.

Are these two essentially interchangeable? Please discuss how one would outperform the other, et al.

First, assuming you are either taking whirling steel or ninja spy PrE here right? Otherwise pure monk is best I think.


12 monk pros: 3d6 sneak attack, 7.5% doublestrike, improved evasion, better movement, better saves, better skills, +1 AC.

Cons: 8 less HP, no power surge or greater weapon specialization, no kensai II bonus, 3 less feats.

Fighter likely has more DPS, but monk has better everything else.

Instead of a 12/8 split, a 12/7/1 (rog) split is likely better. Neither 8 fighter or 8 monk do all that much, but 1 level of rogue gives 1d6+3 sneak attack, UMD, 10% faster sneaking enhancement, and excellent level 1 skills. For this build, my favorite would be the 12 monk/7fighter (for 25% hasteboost)/1 rog, which would give you a total of 4d6+3 sneak attack.



Fighter 18/Monk 2 may be good to. Basically a trade of 10% doublestrike capstone for 2.5% doublestrike (or +2 STR), evasion, better saves, ki strikes, wis bonus to AC, and balance class skill.

Chai
06-24-2010, 02:49 PM
First, assuming you are either taking whirling steel or ninja spy PrE here right? Otherwise pure monk is best I think.


12 monk pros: 3d6 sneak attack, 7.5% doublestrike, improved evasion, better movement, better saves, better skills, +1 AC.

Cons: 8 less HP, no power surge or greater weapon specialization, no kensai II bonus, 3 less feats.

Fighter likely has more DPS, but monk has better everything else.

Instead of a 12/8 split, a 12/7/1 (rog) split is likely better. Neither 8 fighter or 8 monk do all that much, but 1 level of rogue gives 1d6+3 sneak attack, UMD, and excellent level 1 skills.



Fighter 18/Monk 2 may be good to. Basically a trade of 10% doublestrike capstone for 2.5% doublestrike (or +2 STR), evasion, better saves, ki strikes, wis bonus to AC, and balance class skill.


8 monk is where I believe you get the 1d10 unarmed damage dice.

I would take the 12 fighter 8 monk. Kensai 2 unarmed. Higher to hit, higher built in damage through specialize, burst haste, burst str. This may not be the DPS king of the known universe, but it holds its own, and makes a great tank.

shablala
06-24-2010, 03:28 PM
What about Fighter6/Monk8/Ranger6? - Benefit: Tempest I, Drawback: Lesser Wind Stance and Kensai I only

Tempest I is no longer a good splash after U5

ghettoGenius
06-24-2010, 03:44 PM
Fighter 14/Monk 6

I drafted this build a while back but don't have all the details with me. IIRC it was elf with longswords, kensai 2, whirling steel strike, displacement dragonmarks, CE, power attack, TWF feats, toughness, etc. I came to the conclusion I would rather have kensai 2 (and the extra fighter feats) over greater wind stance. It even had decent HP and intim so it could tank.

Calebro
06-24-2010, 03:48 PM
Tempest I is no longer a good splash after U5

Tempest I is still a good splash, it just won't be OP like it was before, which is what prompted everyone and their mothers to splash it.

Reos
06-24-2010, 04:05 PM
At this point I feel like Power Surge would be worth it for that added punch when you need it. I was thinking of going WF on this for the increased power attack, though I might wait for Half-Orcs to come out and work something out that way. All advice is still appreciated.

Tsuarok
06-24-2010, 05:54 PM
One thing you might want to keep in mind is that Touch of Death is not available until monk lvl 9, which might ake 12/8 monk/fighter more attractive.

Reos
06-24-2010, 08:15 PM
I forgot about Touch of Death being lev 9 req. That really changes the outlook of this build. I was hoping Kensai would help me build Ki quickly, just to realize I'll have little to spend it on.

Syntax42
06-25-2010, 08:23 AM
If you want Kensai to build ki, you are taking it for the wrong reasons. A pure monk gets some nice level 20 feats and a capstone to help keep your ki bar up. There are also items from the Henshin Mystic and Shintao sets to increase ki generation. Fire Stance + auto-crit is the easiest way to generate ki, though.

Reos
06-25-2010, 01:47 PM
YEah, I recently got my human monk to lev 20 and I must admit, the enhancements are hard to beat. Im wondering now if this WF Kensai/Monk is just a pipe dream?