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Lagin
06-15-2010, 04:15 PM
Everyday, someone else makes a thread about the combat system being "nerfed"

WHY?

It's a TEST server!

Things there are in development, Over the years we've seen things not even make it to live content!

As a thread last week was titled "The SKY is Falling" :eek: That said it all!

Relax people! Let's just study ALL of the changes being TESTED as a whole; and not get your tighty whities all twisted up!

Drakos
06-15-2010, 04:23 PM
Everyday, someone else makes a thread about the combat system being "nerfed"

WHY?

It's a TEST server!

Things there are in development, Over the years we've seen things not even make it to live content!

As a thread last week was titled "The SKY is Falling" :eek: That said it all!

Relax people! Let's just study ALL of the changes being TESTED as a whole; and not get your tighty whities all twisted up!
Sorry ferd have to disagree. It is a Preview server, and the point of it all is to give us a voice. Not voicing our opinions about the content is the surest way to have it go live. By giving our feedback we stand a chance, albeit a small one, of not having the change go into live.

You do realize you don't have to read it all right?

Cyr
06-15-2010, 04:24 PM
Indeed why would anyone want to give feedback before something is set in stone...

Durion
06-15-2010, 04:25 PM
Sorry ferd have to disagree. It is a Preview server, and the point of it all is to give us a voice. Not voicing our opinions about the content is the surest way to have it go live. By giving our feedback we stand a chance, albeit a small one, of not having the change go into live.

You do realize you don't have to read it all right?

You beat me to it.

Risia was our test server. The one they got rid of. Lammania is our "preview" server. I'm sure they do use it to work bugs out, but its not designed to be what Risia was.

Although, alot of bugs do come from Llama-land. Everybody get your antibiotics ready.

Ilundel
06-15-2010, 04:29 PM
By the way, Lamannia being a preview server and all, means that unless there is a real show stopper almost everything will be brought to live, with minor modifications. The actual TEST server is the "Mournlands" server which is NOT accessible to the general population and tested by a set of decicated pre-selected players.

Antheal
06-15-2010, 09:32 PM
The actual TEST server is the "Mournlands" server which is NOT accessible to the general population and tested by a set of decicated pre-selected players.

Judging from the amount of complaints of glaring bugs on the Lamannia forums, they don't appear to test things very well on Mournlands.

Ilundel
06-16-2010, 10:01 AM
Judging from the amount of complaints of glaring bugs on the Lamannia forums, they don't appear to test things very well on Mournlands.

Hehe, well, never spoke of the effectiveness of the actual test server, but it is still the test server regardless of how effective (or ineffective) it is ;)

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, there is just not as many players on the test server as there are on live servers, so countless variables are different over there then here, not to mention the sheer amount of people makes for a lot more bug finding.

Drfirewater79
06-16-2010, 10:19 AM
Everyday, someone else makes a thread about the combat system being "nerfed"

WHY?

It's a TEST server!

Things there are in development, Over the years we've seen things not even make it to live content!

As a thread last week was titled "The SKY is Falling" :eek: That said it all!

Relax people! Let's just study ALL of the changes being TESTED as a whole; and not get your tighty whities all twisted up!


First off your completely wrong ... Lama is NOT A TEST SERVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LAMA IS A PREVIEW SERVER !!!!!!!!

they are using it to test last second bugs that where not found in Mornlands the invite only test server... but the changes are final ... if there is something that is being changed and it makes it to lama ... its pretty much a shoe in ...

no matter how much complaining about twf ... monk pres ... ddoor nerf ... epic item nerf ... epic item changes .... so on and so forth ... only things that are gonna be considered for fixing are things that unbalance the game in the players favor or something that is actually broken with a mission making it unplayable or exploitive.

Arvess
06-16-2010, 10:29 AM
105% of the bugs found in Lammania by players who report in the forums make it live. How many times is a problem meticulously explained, discussed and complained about and made it live. Not nerfs. Bugs. I like how they hyped update 0 and we were waiting and waiting and all this cool and (uncool) stuff was about to come out and then they snuck in dungeon alert and grazing hits in the last 2 weeks. That wasn't to test it out. they just threw it in there. overwhelming negative feedback didn't change anything. It was broke when it came out because whole dungeons would go purple once you stepped in it.

Also which raid will be closed for 2 weeks when the update comes out?

Drfirewater79
06-16-2010, 10:29 AM
Judging from the amount of complaints of glaring bugs on the Lamannia forums, they don't appear to test things very well on Mournlands.

eladrin stated in the combat feedback thread that on mournlands they tested it with 45% off hand miss rate and it was a big kick in the lags sack ...

if they had gone with a 45% dph drop from off hand (25% per swing and additional 10% loss from alacracy to dps) its likely that they wouldnt have a population to worry about saving with update 5.

that being said there are hundreds of things they could do to reduce lag ... but so far the most effective lag reducing thing they have done in Update 5 was talk about update 5 ... it has cost more people to leave the game then anything outside of V&M Bull in the great DDO exidous that was mod 9 delay .. .

guilds degenerating .... people canceling subscriptions and not playing out the rest of there current subs ... people taking long breaks ....

i have had now three days in a row of no lag in shroud .... maybe update 5 has fixed lag cause with less players per server the lag goes down quite a bit.

Good Job Turbine :)

Missing_Minds
06-16-2010, 10:32 AM
105% of the bugs found in Lammania make it live. How many times is a problem meticulously explained, discussed and complained about...

And never bug reported, let alone reported in the same details as complained about on forums... *sigh*

You want them fixed, they got to be reported, and reported in detail. Which quest, what were you doing, what was the party make up, what was attempted, what was the /loc of the issue, etc.

Re create the setup for them!

Eladiun
06-16-2010, 10:37 AM
The test server gives me a rash. That is all.

Memnir
06-16-2010, 10:41 AM
The test server is Mournlands, not Llama. Llama is the preview server - so everything you see there has already been tested on ML.

And I wouldn't say that what is on Llama is set in stone... just highly unlikely to change.

Chai
06-16-2010, 10:44 AM
The devs asked us for instinctual feedback, as well as feedback after preview.

198 bajillion pages of said feedback was provided.

Ok maybe not quite that many...

Chai
06-16-2010, 10:49 AM
eladrin stated in the combat feedback thread that on mournlands they tested it with 45% off hand miss rate and it was a big kick in the lags sack ...

if they had gone with a 45% dph drop from off hand (25% per swing and additional 10% loss from alacracy to dps) its likely that they wouldnt have a population to worry about saving with update 5.

that being said there are hundreds of things they could do to reduce lag ... but so far the most effective lag reducing thing they have done in Update 5 was talk about update 5 ... it has cost more people to leave the game then anything outside of V&M Bull in the great DDO exidous that was mod 9 delay .. .

guilds degenerating .... people canceling subscriptions and not playing out the rest of there current subs ... people taking long breaks ....

i have had now three days in a row of no lag in shroud .... maybe update 5 has fixed lag cause with less players per server the lag goes down quite a bit.

Good Job Turbine :)

Naaa. It has already been proven over the years that the same people who threaten to quit have done so multiple times, which means they are not keeping that promise. Most people who actually do quit are not trying to start threads about it on the forums. Instead they realize they are not having quite as much fun as they used to and move on. This whole mass exodus thing is getting old, and is brought up multiple times during each major change, and it also never happens.

Lagin
06-16-2010, 10:51 AM
By the way, Lamannia being a preview server and all, means that unless there is a real show stopper almost everything will be brought to live, with minor modifications. The actual TEST server is the "Mournlands" server which is NOT accessible to the general population and tested by a set of decicated pre-selected players.


You beat me to it.

Risia was our test server. The one they got rid of. Lammania is our "preview" server. I'm sure they do use it to work bugs out, but its not designed to be what Risia was.

Although, alot of bugs do come from Llama-land. Everybody get your antibiotics ready.


First off your completely wrong ... Lama is NOT A TEST SERVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LAMA IS A PREVIEW SERVER !!!!!!!!

they are using it to test last second bugs that where not found in Mornlands the invite only test server... but the changes are final ... if there is something that is being changed and it makes it to lama ... its pretty much a shoe in ...

no matter how much complaining about twf ... monk pres ... ddoor nerf ... epic item nerf ... epic item changes .... so on and so forth ... only things that are gonna be considered for fixing are things that unbalance the game in the players favor or something that is actually broken with a mission making it unplayable or exploitive.


The test server gives me a rash. That is all.


Alrighty! I dont care about the actual name we give Lamania, Risia or whatever!
It's a beta/ test/ preview server! Who cares what we call it!

My point is, the forums are full of rants about the nerfs, and most of those rants come from people NOT playing on Lamania!

The posts that ARE from active Lamania players tend to be a little more descriptive!
I made the thread in reaction to 3 negative threads that day from people that haven't stepped foot on Lamania!

Please dont flame me for my choice of words!

We have all posted our displeasure with many aspects of the update we've seen so far, and thats part of what Lamania is there for.

I have a list of good & bad points, that Ive posted several times. Just like the posters to this thread!

Dont flame me for a not using the words you chose to use! Thats petty
Its about OUR game! And the reactions to the proposed content on Lamania!

RELAX guys! it's all good here!

Missing_Minds
06-16-2010, 10:55 AM
Dont flame me for a not using the words you chose to use! Thats petty
When you are wrong, people are going to tell you. By not correcting yourself and continue to call it what it is not out of spite is being petty.

But I do agree with your reason for the post. Most people nerd rage on ideas, and seldom try it out for them self. Much like trying broccoli.

Eladiun
06-16-2010, 10:58 AM
Alrighty! I dont care about the actual name we give Lamania, Risia or whatever!
It's a beta/ test/ preview server! Who cares what we call it!

My point is, the forums are full of rants about the nerfs, and most of those rants come from people NOT playing on Lamania!

The posts that ARE from active Lamania players tend to be a little more descriptive!
I made the thread in reaction to 3 negative threads that day from people that haven't stepped foot on Lamania!

Please dont flame me for my choice of words!

We have all posted our displeasure with many aspects of the update we've seen so far, and thats part of what Lamania is there for.

I have a list of good & bad points, that Ive posted several times. Just like the posters to this thread!

Dont flame me for a not using the words you chose to use! Thats petty
Its about OUR game! And the reactions to the proposed content on Lamania!

RELAX guys! it's all good here!

None of this changes the reality of the rash it gives me...I need hydr0cortizone stat.

Drfirewater79
06-16-2010, 11:21 AM
Naaa. It has already been proven over the years that the same people who threaten to quit have done so multiple times, which means they are not keeping that promise. Most people who actually do quit are not trying to start threads about it on the forums. Instead they realize they are not having quite as much fun as they used to and move on. This whole mass exodus thing is getting old, and is brought up multiple times during each major change, and it also never happens.

oh i didnt mean people would threaten to quit ... alot of people threaten to quit ... but i would bet the highest number of people who do quit due to changes are people who dont frequent the forums ... went to lama to test something they where interested in found that changes made to there favorite characters or classes are so far from there game style or play style or otherwise ruin the fun they have with there favorite class or character and they leave .....

people generally (me included) who threaten to leave the game on the forums generally do it in a last ditch effort to get through the thick heads of the people who make the changes (if its devs or marketing or producers or other wise problem causing people) but in the end will find a way to love the game even after the worst of the worst ...

in my situation i left the game once for 4 months and went back to the MMO i was playing before DDO ... COH/V .... i found the combat to be so much slower even though the challenge was much higher and the customization and character options where far superior to this game ... the speed of combat brought me back ... a couple cool updates like shroud and i was all for it ... almost left for good during V&M delaying mod 9 but I figured with f2p as an option this game would prolly not be so hard to fill parties ... more epic lead to me eventually finding something i wanted to do with my capped characters even though i almost never raid epic and generally only find playing my capped triple tod optioned high umd dark monk fun at all ... hate playing any of my low level characters and starting to prefer soloing missions and just grabing people for end fight to save me the hassle of dealing with noobs or time delays from players who dont actually want to play this game they just want to take up server space while they do other things.

so really since just before mod 8 until now i really havent thought of leaving the game for good ...

E3 and update 5 have changed my min ... i ended my sub (runs out in september) first time i actually canceled it rather then simply not extend (which is what i did when i left first time) filled out the survey ....

and i can tell you this .... if turbine cannot find a way to convince me to stay by september ... its likely consoles and other mmos like DC universe and Star Wars old republic which both should be announcing release dates at e3 will have there chance to WOW me into spending my money there ....

I am sure i am not the only one considering leaving this game for the future of MMO's which this game clearly no longer represents ....

F2P business model might be the future ... but turbine sure as hell isnt ....

hope that in the up coming months turbine can prove me wrong ... or that warner wakes up and puts someone who actually cares about the players opinions enough or that understands what makes the game attractive enough to run this game properly.

I have lost all faith in piaz to produce a game that DnD fans and MMO fans alike can enjoy without constantly nerfing and destroying things based on a small populations issues (either the small population of complete noobs who need everything made easier or the small population of uber elitests who need everything harder and more complicated then get angry when things are changed to make missions able to be completed on normal by people who dont want to work on the skills ......yeah i hate it too but i dont care that they make missions easier on normal so that noobs can beat abbot too so long as they dont dumb down elite)

the problem is there is a large amount of people who love this game but refuse to battle it out on the forums cause they dont see the point since its been more then clear on many occasions (though admittedly not all occasions) that devs do not communicate well and often dont hear the thousands of pleas to fix things until its too late...

lama is a perfect example . .. even though the monk pre's where information given weeks in advance once people realized the flaws ... NOTHING WAS DONE TO CORRECT THEM....

pages and pages of issues with pale masters before they went to live and near a month later a dev chimes in not knowing people thought pale masters sucked....

not pointing fingers at any one dev or the whole team .... but to much goes unnoticed on the forums ...

and the whole if you start a fight then devs dont look at your thread BS is the issue ...

the most heated debates could be stomped clean if devs would read and reply more often ...

I think turbine needs to have an official reply team ...

a team that speaks on behalf of developers and relays issues brought up by the players ....

if something is not able to be fixed or worked on these people can tell the public "Sorry Druids are not on the table at this time cause some issues have come up with coding wild shape .... right now focus is on finishing these pre's before the expected release date and working on half orcs"

if things like this where said more often .... explaining that things get put on the back burner and why ... you would stomp 50% of the rage posts ...

only 50% ... i mean people will rage regardless ...

but 50% less is a huge step ... in recovering faith with your player base.

Drfirewater79
06-16-2010, 11:26 AM
\
My point is, the forums are full of rants about the nerfs, and most of those rants come from people NOT playing on Lamania!


I have logged many hours on lama myself ...

3 people i know have quit the game for good (two in real life even went so far as to delete the client from there computers) all played on lama before making that choice to cancel

more people are complaining because they have tested it and dont like it then have not done either ...

but really ...

it only takes one trusted source for people to have an opinion ...

you hear George Bush is an idiot from and idiot you might vote for him .. .if you hear it from someone you trust ... you might vote against him ...

word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool..... one turbine is not very good at using since more people have negative things to say about them more often then good.

Mockduck
06-16-2010, 12:19 PM
Ah **** I have to take a test to play here? :)

shablala
06-16-2010, 12:30 PM
Naaa. It has already been proven over the years that the same people who threaten to quit have done so multiple times, which means they are not keeping that promise. Most people who actually do quit are not trying to start threads about it on the forums. Instead they realize they are not having quite as much fun as they used to and move on. This whole mass exodus thing is getting old, and is brought up multiple times during each major change, and it also never happens.

I would actually love to see a mass exodus of all the elitest jerks!

Lagin
06-16-2010, 12:30 PM
Ah **** I have to take a test to play here? :)

Yes Jerry! It's a 3part multiple choice test with no choices!

You have 15 minutes! Start NOW!

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/th_5d223840.gif?t=1276709340
(http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm299/chefricochet/animated/?action=view&current=5d223840.gif&sort=ascending)

grodon9999
06-16-2010, 12:43 PM
I came, i saw, I tested, it sucks.

Will I leave? No, not over this. Will the changes make the game more fun? Not at all, the fast pace makes the game exciting and removing that's not a good thing.

Lube up people, we're about to take one.

Lagin
06-16-2010, 12:48 PM
I came, i saw, I tested, it sucks.

Will I leave? No, not over this. Will the changes make the game more fun? Not at all, the fast pace makes the game exciting and removing that's not a good thing..

:cool: +1

Drfirewater79
06-16-2010, 12:56 PM
I would actually love to see a mass exodus of all the elitest jerks!

I agree ... at the same time i wouldnt hate it if the group of complete morons who arent elitest would leave too ...(NOT SAYING YOU SO DONT GET ANGRY JUST ADDING TO YOUR LIST OF EXODUS)

i have ran into multiple people as of late with 2009-2010 entry dates that have lvl 20 characters and dont know where to buy components for there spells ... dont know where to buy needed scrolls .... are still healing with wands rather then scrolls at lvl 20 in raids...

idiots are everywhere .... not just on the end of the elitest but on the noob end too ...

I am a good player (wont say i am the best at anything but i hold my own and never really burden a party) and i don't like elitest attitudes either ... even though at times i might get caught up in elitest like comments myself ...

But if you cannot follow instructions ... follow strategy ... dont know your own class that you have been playing since lvl 1-4 and 19-15 lvls later you dont know what is required of you ...

then really there are better things for these people to do ... like go to school and learn to read ... or boot camp to learn how not to be a tard.

at the same time ... anyone who thinks someone should instantly be uber just cause they have 1 lvl 20 character when compared to people with 5 -12 lvl 20 characters ... is stupid ...

its a two sided coin and both sides are covered in doo doo.

fling away monkey.

grodon9999
06-16-2010, 01:04 PM
I would actually love to see a mass exodus of all the elitest jerks!

Depending on how much mob HP is nerfed, you may very well see more elitism. Allegedly we have an HP drop on Lamaland, I'll believe it when we see it on life.

Think about it, DPS drops 20% and mob HP stays that same. A group that would easily one-round Harry in part 4 would still one-round them or maybe have a short second round. A two rounder will now go to 3 or 4, and I'll tell you right now I won't heal that group again when i can pick guys who I know will still be able to knock it out quickly and not cost me any resources.

The 'Elite' will still be fine, the not-so-elite will get hurt more.