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elricken
06-13-2010, 04:50 AM
Dearest Devs could you please eliminate the mana pots available at the in game store?

They are very unbalancing and are used as a crutch rather than using good tactics and sp conservation.

They really do make the game just a tad too easy.

Thx in advance for reading/considering and hopefully implementing.

Cheers! :)

JPDefault
06-13-2010, 05:25 AM
As much as I'd like this, it's not going to happen, sorry.
Instead, expect to see more and more easy buttons. :mad:

If you want an "easy-button-free" group, find a guild that forbids those things. There's more than one. ;)

Spisey
06-13-2010, 05:28 AM
If you're not challenged, stop using them.....;)

JPDefault
06-13-2010, 05:33 AM
If you're not challenged, stop using them.....;)

I think his point was: others are using SP potions all the time, so he had bad experiences grouping with incompetent casters who made it to level 20 only thanks to the store/AH.

DarkAlchemist
06-13-2010, 05:36 AM
Sorry to break it to you but you're not going to stop Turbine's cash cow for the easily addictive crowd. :(

elricken
06-13-2010, 05:36 AM
If you're not challenged, stop using them.....;)

I don't use them, just saying imo they are a bit unbalanced. I realize that turbine makes bucket loads of dough off of them and as such they will pretty much not be going away. I still feel the urge to voice my opinion and hope for what again is imo the best.

BoBoDaClown
06-13-2010, 05:40 AM
I reckon a 5 minute timer would be appropriate- it would make balancing the game around an expanded (rather than unlimited) SP pool much easier.


Turbine would still get to sell their pots, but maybe the profit hit would be too much.

elricken
06-13-2010, 05:44 AM
Sorry to break it to you but you're not going to stop Turbine's cash cow for the easily addictive crowd. :(

I understand this fact, you are not breaking any news to me.


Still gonna post with my opinion on the matter for discussion.

Krag
06-13-2010, 05:46 AM
/not signed
Let the casual players have their fun and Turbine their money.

elricken
06-13-2010, 06:00 AM
/not signed
Let the casual players have their fun and Turbine their money.

Fair enough.

My point is that players that depend on store pots are very often the ones without the foggiest idea on how to run a caster/healer, not just talking about sp conservation but general ability as well.

I then get to play with these players in epics and higher level content, which at times can drain from my fun and general enjoyment by quite alot.
I realize said suggestion will likely never be realized, turbine makes alot of money off of those pots and that money can translate into more updates for me to enjoy. ;)

This is just my rant about arcane and divine casters not bothering to take their time and get to know their class a bit before attempting some of the tougher content.

Long rant short... ddo store pots = ignorant casters = less fun for me

Shutting up now :)

Edit: Emotes not working??

Glorious
06-13-2010, 06:18 AM
I can't agree to this on principle. I have found the beauty of playing this game is that for the most part very few people actually impact your own personal experience. Your own playstyle is the way you want to play - if other people have tons more raid gear and have upgraded it all the way - great - that's how they want to play the game you can play that way or not.

You might get into the odd group with people who play really differently than you - basically you run one quest with them and then kindly leave the group.

That's why guilds work so well - you get groups of people who typically play the same way - especially with the older established guilds.

I get that there should be balance to a certain extent in the game - however there are people that might not be able to spend 6 hours+ per day running raids etc. to get the best gear that will give them more mana than the player who doesn't have as much time to farm that stuff. I probably have 100+ mana pots scattered throughout my toons - I rarely have to bring them out at all - but in the few times when I do it's to save a raid or a quest that's gone harder than usual.

But that's just my playstyle...

DarkAlchemist
06-13-2010, 07:43 AM
I understand this fact, you are not breaking any news to me.


Still gonna post with my opinion on the matter for discussion.
No offense as I was just saying because I am on your side on this matter. As the poster above me replied it is their dollars and it doesn't detract from how I play but I just feel as I am being expected to dip into the DDO store to keep up or be labeled as some sort of gimp because I choose not to. Seen it happen already when someone almost demanded I buy some sp from the DDO store just in case the party gets into trouble. I left that party.

ghettoGenius
06-13-2010, 08:27 AM
I have found the beauty of playing this game is that for the most part very few people actually impact your own personal experience.

Are you sure about that? Every MMO has griefers, and nowhere are they more destructive than in this group dynamic. I'm sure experiences are different for everyone but in the past I've seen an obvious correlation between players who abuse (and I mean downright abuse) the ddo store features such as SP pots and raise dead cakes and those that cause significant drama in game.

Downing a pot or two in order to successfully complete a raid is totally understandable, even expected at times. But some casters run around popping SP pots so they can continue ahead of the group or they move in another direction, completely unaware of the groups desire and necessity to visit a shrine or work together.

In my opinion (and I'm no clinical psychologist), I believe that for some individuals the SP pots/cakes provide an ego boost and a sense of security and independence that doesnt always benefit the group. In fact it can lead to destructive introverted behavior than can:

1) get the group in over its head
2) alienate other members of the group (or guild)
3) lead the abusive player into a false sense of entitlement and security

These have been my observations, and I can tell you this kind of thing has fractured guilds in the past. That said I am not in favor of removing them from the game. I don't believe in restricting or limiting access to things because others abuse them. People just need to play and act responsibly.

jomonkey527
06-13-2010, 08:44 AM
I can agree to some extent. But to be honest that is the only thing I spend my TP on. And I really only use them in a one raid, VoD, which I end up using about two. With the lag and sometimes heals not hitting you bet I'll use them to help my raid group finish. Other raids like Shroud, etc, I never use them. I dont run ToD, but that is for another thread.

The only way I would agree is when you choose rewards by class if Mnemonic Elixirs dropped even more frequently.

jomonkey527
06-13-2010, 08:46 AM
I reckon a 5 minute timer would be appropriate- it would make balancing the game around an expanded (rather than unlimited) SP pool much easier.


Turbine would still get to sell their pots, but maybe the profit hit would be too much.

Now that I like. A lot.

Bloodhaven
06-13-2010, 08:48 AM
No offense as I was just saying because I am on your side on this matter. As the poster above me replied it is their dollars and it doesn't detract from how I play but I just feel as I am being expected to dip into the DDO store to keep up or be labeled as some sort of gimp because I choose not to. Seen it happen already when someone almost demanded I buy some sp from the DDO store just in case the party gets into trouble. I left that party.

Good call leaving. There is no reason that you would ever have no other choice than to spend TP. Any group or player that demands you spend your real life money... whell they can go on my "friends" list..


On a side note, If you squelch someone then add them to friends list they automatically become unsquelched. So just remember to add friends then squelch them. The descriptions I add to my friends in the friends list is at times entertaining :)

jwdaniels
06-13-2010, 08:50 AM
I've found that, for the most part, if you avoid anyone with a really stupid character name (things like IGotNothing, DPSnYou, FireWallRulez, ROFLCopter, etc.) most of the casters you find will have at least some clue how to play, and are generally willing to listen to advice.

Krag
06-13-2010, 09:01 AM
Downing a pot or two in order to successfully complete a raid is totally understandable, even expected at times. But some casters run around popping SP pots so they can continue ahead of the group or they move in another direction, completely unaware of the groups desire and necessity to visit a shrine or work together.

Heh. Caster run ahead and gather as many mobs as possible to conserve their mana.

~Sandthefloor
06-13-2010, 09:14 AM
I've found that, for the most part, if you avoid anyone with a really stupid character name (things like IGotNothing, DPSnYou, FireWallRulez, ROFLCopter, etc.) most of the casters you find will have at least some clue how to play, and are generally willing to listen to advice.

While I understand how this principle works, I have to say that this statement is, like all generalizations, flawed. My brother, for example, has a cleric, name is Blahguy. That horrendous name was spawned from too much Demented Cartoon Movie. But he heals well enough, and has probably saved my *** on countless occasions. Don't judge a player too much by his name. (Of course, you're free to switch to your fleshy if the cleric's username is ihateforges.)

Anyway, the store SP Pots are abused a bit too much- one or two store pots are fine, and of course ingame SP Pots were earned and saved up through your own character's blood, sweat, and Wall of Fire- but perhaps a long cooldown should be set for store pots. It would keep people from relying on the SP pots and, with cooperation from all those alts and TRs running around the place, help newbie wizards (myself included) learn to use stuff like charm/suggestion, glitterdust (99 in 100 rogues approve, and the 100th was drunk), and web (in tandem with acidball or icestorm, since fire breaks it) more often.

Crazyfruit
06-13-2010, 09:22 AM
I then get to play with these players in epics and higher level content, which at times can drain from my fun and general enjoyment by quite alot.

At the start of one of easier Von epics the other day a cleric asked if 70 some pots was enough :| The group members bought her a ton of scrolls & taught her how to use them

Also seen a wizard waste like 30 dancing and firewalling every lone monster in that same dungeon... and one who did the same in coal chamber, but rushing ahead of everyone to cast wail/finger on everything.

AestorTheKnight
06-13-2010, 10:31 AM
Store Pots are unnecesary to play DDO properly.

I personally gather up Pots on my Melee Characters and send them to my FvS so he can use them on raids.

IF... a player uses his/her SP wisely, Potions are rarely needed. Thats what Shrines are for.

But... if a crazy caster wants to burn his mana, then spend real life $$$ on SP Potions, thats his choice. I agree that its silly, and I also agree that perhaps Turbine shouldnt make that an option. But at the end of the day who's fault is it? Turbines or the player who chooses to spend the $$$? Well... a bit of both of course :)

Lorz
06-13-2010, 10:37 AM
Fair enough.

My point is that players that depend on store pots are very often the ones without the foggiest idea on how to run a caster/healer, not just talking about sp conservation but general ability as well.

I then get to play with these players in epics and higher level content, which at times can drain from my fun and general enjoyment by quite alot.
I realize said suggestion will likely never be realized, turbine makes alot of money off of those pots and that money can translate into more updates for me to enjoy. ;)

This is just my rant about arcane and divine casters not bothering to take their time and get to know their class a bit before attempting some of the tougher content.

Long rant short... ddo store pots = ignorant casters = less fun for me

Shutting up now :)

Edit: Emotes not working??

Just a note : it not just about your fun. I agree with you....but remember those casual players deserve to enjoy their play too.


Just dont group with the unknown then. I find it's part ofthr fun of pugging. Meeting the good and the bad and the ugly. :)

elricken
06-13-2010, 04:41 PM
Just a note : it not just about your fun. I agree with you....but remember those casual players deserve to enjoy their play too.


Just dont group with the unknown then. I find it's part ofthr fun of pugging. Meeting the good and the bad and the ugly. :)

It's not just my fun that is being drained, generally the rest of the groups as well. I happen to enjoy pugging for the most part, you get to meet some cool people (I am an officer in a small but recruiting guild, meeting and playing with new people is kinda mandatory).

I however think that it hurts turbine in the long run to foster the kind of casters we have been discussing. These casual players will often splurge their cash on the store but forego any long term investment or commitment to the game.

These players are not the ones who bring in long term income and growth for the game, so stop babying them and lets get some people who will bother to learn a bit to increase everyone elses enjoyability.

/end rant

:)

LordRavnos
06-13-2010, 05:26 PM
I enjoy pots for emergancies and I am glad Turbine makes money off it to keep the game afloat. But yeah it sucks at times that people do not learn how to play cause they have excessive expendable income

DoctorWhofan
06-13-2010, 05:30 PM
Dearest Devs could you please eliminate the mana pots available at the in game store?

They are very unbalancing and are used as a crutch rather than using good tactics and sp conservation.

They really do make the game just a tad too easy.

Thx in advance for reading/considering and hopefully implementing.

Cheers! :)

I agree.

what a crutch.

Wizard_Zero
06-13-2010, 05:31 PM
A game without SP pots? Do you know how many quest would fail, because a healer can't use SP pots?

LordRavnos
06-13-2010, 05:32 PM
A game without SP pots? Do you know how many quest would fail, because a healer can't use SP pots?

Yeah, scary thought that people learn how to play without a crutch.

bobbryan2
06-13-2010, 05:37 PM
Downing a pot or two in order to successfully complete a raid is totally understandable, even expected at times. But some casters run around popping SP pots so they can continue ahead of the group or they move in another direction, completely unaware of the groups desire and necessity to visit a shrine or work together.

Lol.

Missed the mark on this one.

Actually, I think you missed the board and pegged some nice lady that wsa coming out of the bathroom.

bobbryan2
06-13-2010, 05:38 PM
IF... a player uses his/her SP wisely, Potions are rarely needed. Thats what Shrines are for.

That's what zerging is for.

DoctorWhofan
06-13-2010, 05:40 PM
A game without SP pots? Do you know how many quest would fail, because a healer can't use SP pots?

no we aretalking the ones you can buy in the Turbine store. The dropped ones are fine.

LordRavnos
06-13-2010, 05:40 PM
Lol.

Missed the mark on this one.

Actually, I think you missed the board and pegged some nice lady that wsa coming out of the bathroom.

you made me laugh just now, +1 rep for you

Kza
06-13-2010, 05:41 PM
I like pots, especially when 100 costed 400 tps hehe- still have like 1k left, i use em tooo slow :/

azrael4h
06-13-2010, 09:13 PM
The problem isn't the pots, it's the bad players. Clerics and Wizards who need 100+ sp pots to clear a medium length quest are just as bad as the rogues who never look for traps or sneak attack, fighters who run away from the group without reason, and Barbarians who run back and forth in traps, begging for heals the whole time.

I never run out of SP, even when soloing my Sorc (who hasn't gotten to Firewall yet, and doesn't even have any power item better than the Korthos Archivist set yet). Forget my Cleric, who rarely needs even the breakable drops. Good tactics + knowing what and when to cast is more important.

All that said, I'd rather Turbine keep them in, as they probably pay a good chunk of the costs to keep things going. I only disagree with making changes (nerfs) in hopes of forcing players to use them and the healing pots, and more of them. Which is what Turbine seems to want to do.

Taking them out only makes things tighter, and makes scams to increase store revenue, or the shutdown of the game, ever more likely.

FluffyCalico
06-13-2010, 09:20 PM
At the start of one of easier Von epics the other day a cleric asked if 70 some pots was enough :| The group members bought her a ton of scrolls & taught her how to use them

.

Haah even the epic deserts when they first came out didn't need anywhere near that kind of #. And Von2 is a total joke compared to them.

FluffyCalico
06-13-2010, 09:22 PM
A game without SP pots? Do you know how many quest would fail, because a healer can't use SP pots?

Um aside from a couple epics, and maybe an amarth elite or 2... I would say 0.



no we aretalking the ones you can buy in the Turbine store. The dropped ones are fine.

They are more likely to remove the dropped ones and leave the store ones!

elricken
06-13-2010, 11:36 PM
Dearest Devs could you please eliminate the mana pots available at the in game store?

They are very unbalancing and are used as a crutch rather than using good tactics and sp conservation.

They really do make the game just a tad too easy.

Thx in advance for reading/considering and hopefully implementing.

Cheers! :)

Wow, I got neg repp'd for this post.

If you don't like the idea all you have to do is /not signed.

Nezichiend
06-13-2010, 11:57 PM
A game without SP pots? Do you know how many quest would fail, because a healer can't use SP pots?

These are for regular pots, DDO store pots are better. If you have a bauble, subtract 1 from each ;)

Tower with Suulo (I use 1 pot, sometimes 2, sometimes 0 with a good group)
Tower on hard or elite (1 or 2)
Tougher epics, maybe VoN3 or 4 depending on the group you may pop a couple
Chains of flame epic and dq 1 epic (I haven't run them, so I don't know)

So pretty much if you do epic von3&4, chains and dq1 every day you will need to use store pots. Otherwise you can EASILY make back all the pots you use with random drop ones. And really, no one runs the epics mentioned above.

samthedagger
06-14-2010, 12:06 AM
Let me address the issue at the core of the OP's concern. There are people out there who have time. And there are people out there who have money. Sometimes, the two are mutually exclusive. Now when that is the case, the people who have only time are going to have to earn things, and the people who have only money are going to seek to purchase a quick way to the top. People with only time may capitalize on this fact by trading their time for someone else's money. These people are often referred to as gold/plat farmers, and this type of behavior is typically frowned upon and downright disallowed by most MMOs. Turbine, however, has come up with the ingenious idea to eliminate the middle man and give players with only money access to what they want without having to go to a gold/plat farmer. This idea is called the DDO Store.

The alternative is to let the people with only money still get what they want through illegitimate means. I'd rather Turbine, who designed and maintains the game I love, profit from the laziness of wealthy people than some plat farmer in Yugoslavia. It's going to happen whether you like it or not and whether Turbine legitimizes it or not. So let Turbine have their money, and let the people with money but no time spend their money on SP pots. You are welcome to start your own guild for only people who don't spend any money in the Turbine store and group with those people only. You aren't alone in your desire for a game where everyone has to earn things equally, but what you are basically asking is for Turbine to turn over profits to plat farmers in third-world countries.

Everything in the DDO Store makes the game easier in some way. Some people like this. Others don't. But you can't change the fact that people with money are always going to look for a shortcut.