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Claver
06-09-2010, 07:20 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind. Low value items and commodities are shown is Silver; high value items are shown in Platinum. Because of my color blindness, I can't tell the difference between the two. With a gold piece standard the magnitude value of items was obvious; 1000 gp was clearly larger than 1 gp. By comparison, 10 Plat = 100 gp and 9 Silver ~ 1g. In update 5, the color blind player will see 10 coins and 9 coins that look very similar but represent a big difference in the apparent value of the items. If that player is new to the game they might make a mistake. If they are a veteran like me, they will be annoyed that they have to slow down to be careful on the auction house.

(2) Gold Pieces are the standard currency of PNP D&D. We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

(3) I no longer feel rich. When you loot a sword worth 8,000 gp that feels like a reasonable haul; 800 pp just doesn't carry the same psychological satisfaction even though the value is equivalent.

Turbine, please consider reinstating gold pieces as the denomination for goods

Psyker
06-09-2010, 07:24 PM
/signed

I like all of your reasoning OP

moops
06-09-2010, 07:32 PM
Many of us whom trade always talk in Plat--200K plat etc, When people ask the going rate of something, its replied to with plat eastimates, perhaps this is done to be less confusing for new people.

J1NG
06-09-2010, 07:42 PM
Many of us whom trade always talk in Plat--200K plat etc, When people ask the going rate of something, its replied to with plat eastimates, perhaps this is done to be less confusing for new people.

I think it's even more confusing for new people to see 1700 "silver" instead of 17000 "gold". :p

It's fine when you know, when you don't it's a drag. If you're saying old players can adjust to the new, why can't the new adjust to the old? :)

Everyone recognises gold. Plat and Silver need something more to distinguish themselves on screen more easily if you want to use plat. When I logged onto Lamannia, even after reading about the change, I was talking to the group and asking if they're experiencing this "bug" too.

Please return back to gold. Or change the plat symbol to something more recognisable.

J1NG

:: edit ::

Also, yes, we say plat in trade. But in stores, we don't. Are you really going to sell that normal looking Rapier (+5 Keen of Banishing) for 9820 Silver?

KiwiJoe
06-09-2010, 07:48 PM
The change to 'plat standard' is an excellent one. Only newbs use gold.

I'm sorry about your color blindness but perhaps you need to ask for a change in the color of the plat coin instead.

moops
06-09-2010, 08:01 PM
I think it's even more confusing for new people to see 1700 "silver" instead of 17000 "gold". :p

It's fine when you know, when you don't it's a drag. If you're saying old players can adjust to the new, why can't the new adjust to the old? :)

Everyone recognises gold. Plat and Silver need something more to distinguish themselves on screen more easily if you want to use plat. When I logged onto Lamannia, even after reading about the change, I was talking to the group and asking if they're experiencing this "bug" too.

Please return back to gold. Or change the plat symbol to something more recognisable.

J1NG

:: edit ::

Also, yes, we say plat in trade. But in stores, we don't. Are you really going to sell that normal looking Rapier (+5 Keen of Banishing) for 9820 Silver?

You do know that Plat and silver are different? Because 1700 silver does nto equal 17000 gold. . .

J1NG
06-09-2010, 08:03 PM
You do know that Plat and silver are different? Because 1700 silver does nto equal 17000 gold. . .

moops, re-read my post again. ;) :)

J1NG

Xionanx
06-09-2010, 08:10 PM
Personally I would prefer they drop Platinum entirely and just list everything as Gold with a decimal for silver/copper. For example: 123,456,789.12 Gold

Having ONE denomination of currency would go a LONG way towards simplifying the monetary system, which I "believe" is the goal behind this/these changes is it not?

Considering all weapon and item values currently in the game list GOLD, Silver, and Copper as their base price, I cant see going through and changing ALL of them to instead list their prices as Plat, Gold, Silver, Copper.

Simplest solution = Drop Plat entirely, list everything as gold only.

Hokiewa
06-09-2010, 08:12 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind. Low value items and commodities are shown is Silver; high value items are shown in Platinum. Because of my color blindness, I can't tell the difference between the two. With a gold piece standard the magnitude value of items was obvious; 1000 gp was clearly larger than 1 gp. By comparison, 10 Plat = 100 gp and 9 Silver ~ 1g. In update 5, the color blind player will see 10 coins and 9 coins that look very similar but represent a big difference in the apparent value of the items. If that player is new to the game they might make a mistake. If they are a veteran like me, they will be annoyed that they have to slow down to be careful on the auction house.

(2) Gold Pieces are the standard currency of PNP D&D. We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

(3) I no longer feel rich. When you loot a sword worth 8,000 gp that feels like a reasonable haul; 800 pp just doesn't carry the same psychological satisfaction even though the value is equivalent.

Turbine, please consider reinstating gold pieces as the denomination for goods

1) Where are you encountering coins where they are color only?
2) Getting people to use plat is getting people to use the common terminology of the game...You post an item in plat....Though I do agree the loss of d"n" is absurd.
3) .....then you aren't, would you feel "richer" if that 800 plat sword was displayed as 800k copper?

Bobthesponge
06-09-2010, 08:17 PM
/signed

if it ain't broke, don't fix it. the gold standard is D&D. in DDO every item had their value listed as gold and you could tell at a glance what it is worth. the plat notaion was nothing more than a shorthand amongst players who were chatting/trading. besides, how difficult is it to move a decimal point to convert gold to plat?

i realise that these arguments work in reverse as well, so let me reiterate: the gold standard is D&D and EVERYONE understands gold.

moops
06-09-2010, 08:18 PM
I think it's even more confusing for new people to see 1700 "silver" instead of 17000 "gold". :p


this is what I read. . .1700 silver dos not equal 17000 gold

J1NG
06-09-2010, 08:23 PM
this is what I read. . .1700 silver dos not equal 17000 gold

Thank you. My point exactly. :)

No I'm not messing with you, likely you've caught on already. 1700 "silver" does not equal 17000 gold. But 1700 plat (that unfortunately looks like "silver") does equal 17000 gold.

We are all aware that if the price of the item is below 1 gold, it gets converted to silver automatically.

Hence, please refrain from using Plat as the primary denomination, or change it's image to help others in stores recognise it instantly. As of right now, larger resolutions and varying LCD contrast/brightness issues can easily mistake the two. As their primary difference right now is slight colour variation which not all systems and displays can show properly.

Some people may end up selling something they don't want to. And never realising it either.

That is why I came up with that example. Sorry moops for having to drag you into it as a case example for my point. :p ;) :)

J1NG

countesscrow
06-09-2010, 08:31 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind. Low value items and commodities are shown is Silver; high value items are shown in Platinum. Because of my color blindness, I can't tell the difference between the two. With a gold piece standard the magnitude value of items was obvious; 1000 gp was clearly larger than 1 gp. By comparison, 10 Plat = 100 gp and 9 Silver ~ 1g. In update 5, the color blind player will see 10 coins and 9 coins that look very similar but represent a big difference in the apparent value of the items. If that player is new to the game they might make a mistake. If they are a veteran like me, they will be annoyed that they have to slow down to be careful on the auction house.

(2) Gold Pieces are the standard currency of PNP D&D. We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

(3) I no longer feel rich. When you loot a sword worth 8,000 gp that feels like a reasonable haul; 800 pp just doesn't carry the same psychological satisfaction even though the value is equivalent.

Turbine, please consider reinstating gold pieces as the denomination for goods

I disagree with this. All trade and sells happen in plat. It just make sense to use the highest monetary value. I.E. Like Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nicke and Penny.

Let Plat Reign Supreme!!!!

J1NG
06-09-2010, 08:35 PM
I disagree with this. All trade and sells happen in plat. It just make sense to use the highest monetary value. I.E. Like Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nicke and Penny.

Let Plat Reign Supreme!!!!

I will only agree to this, and I assume the OP will also agree to this, IF, Turbine actually makes a "visual" diffrence to the two coin types that can become confusing. Silver and Plat. And since we ARE talking about Turbine here, this will probably never happen. :p

Otherwise, disgree with the change to Plat.

J1NG

:: Edit ::

Otherwise, Turbine GM's will have a riot on their hands. Why has my set of items sold in the vendor when it showed 99 "plat" and I only got 99 "silver"? Or other variations of that. Turbine GM's will have a lot to do, or have another blame game and finger pointing session on their hands. Best to sort out the root of the problem early. Change the plat graphic!

Lithic
06-09-2010, 08:40 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind. Low value items and commodities are shown is Silver; high value items are shown in Platinum. Because of my color blindness, I can't tell the difference between the two. With a gold piece standard the magnitude value of items was obvious; 1000 gp was clearly larger than 1 gp. By comparison, 10 Plat = 100 gp and 9 Silver ~ 1g. In update 5, the color blind player will see 10 coins and 9 coins that look very similar but represent a big difference in the apparent value of the items. If that player is new to the game they might make a mistake. If they are a veteran like me, they will be annoyed that they have to slow down to be careful on the auction house.


Isn't it pretty obvious if something is plat or silver in every instance where it matters?

On your character sheet, obviously the one between copper and gold is silver, therfore the one on the end is plat. It is in the same order along the bottom of a trade screen (and even says pp, gp, sp, or cp next to these amounts).

In a trade winder, top is plat, 3rd from bottom is silver. Again all rows are labeled with pp, gp, sp, or cp, so no confusion there.

When you loot somthing, it says what kind of coin it is, again no confusion.

The only place I can think of that you might need is the auction house. The worst case would be something that is 1500pp, 0gp, 0sp, 5cp for example. Doesnt the auction house actually list it as 1500, 0, 0, 5 (with the little coin icons in between)? I can't check at the moment cause I am not in game, but thats vaguely how I remember it. If there are 4 numbers you should know it is 1500pp, not silver. If it isn't listed as such, maybe you should instead be asking for the AH prices to change the coin icon in the prices to the letters. That would solve your problem, while letting the devs change things to a plat standard.

It sucks that DDO is taking this small step away from PnP, but in any PnP game as monty haul as our MMO, the DM would use a plat standard as well (if not a "Starfire Ruby" standard, or some such larger currency denomination). It will also stop all the confusion that newbs get at the different currencies. I don't know why it is so hard for new people to understand that pp=10$, gp=1$, sl=10C, pp=1C, but it seems to be.

Eladiun
06-09-2010, 08:43 PM
(2) Gold Pieces are the standard currency of PNP D&D. We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

Gold is only the standard because no DM in their right mind would have player running about with the kind of cash we have in this game.

They should add a high contrast option for colorblind folks but keep the plat I haet doing all the dang math.

MrCuisinart
06-09-2010, 08:46 PM
...We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

So very true. :-(

Xionanx
06-09-2010, 09:04 PM
I disagree with this. All trade and sells happen in plat. It just make sense to use the highest monetary value. I.E. Like Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nicke and Penny.

Let Plat Reign Supreme!!!!

Heh, only problem is in your analogy, plat is the equivalent of a $10 bill.

Plat = $10 (Ten)
Gold = $1 (One)
Quarter = $0.25 = NO DDO Equal unless you go back to AD&D, then its electrum
Silver = $0.10 (Dime)
Copper = $0.01 (Penny)

If you look at how the ORIGINAL monetary system was set up in AD&D, it was designed to "mimic" the US currency system.

Anyway, I still think we need to drop PP, SP, and CP and just show all currency as XXX.XX Gold.

DoctorWhofan
06-09-2010, 09:25 PM
/signed.

osirisisis
06-09-2010, 09:48 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind. Low value items and commodities are shown is Silver; high value items are shown in Platinum. Because of my color blindness, I can't tell the difference between the two. With a gold piece standard the magnitude value of items was obvious; 1000 gp was clearly larger than 1 gp. By comparison, 10 Plat = 100 gp and 9 Silver ~ 1g. In update 5, the color blind player will see 10 coins and 9 coins that look very similar but represent a big difference in the apparent value of the items. If that player is new to the game they might make a mistake. If they are a veteran like me, they will be annoyed that they have to slow down to be careful on the auction house.

(2) Gold Pieces are the standard currency of PNP D&D. We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

(3) I no longer feel rich. When you loot a sword worth 8,000 gp that feels like a reasonable haul; 800 pp just doesn't carry the same psychological satisfaction even though the value is equivalent.

Turbine, please consider reinstating gold pieces as the denomination for goods

/Un signed

Sorry about your color blind ness

I perfer the platium standard purely because it's the highest based currency and have dissucced price of items in plat for 4 years. It's not 10 dimes to me its easier to use a dollar.

"We are losing the d6 notation" ..............I would really focus on binded gear if your worried about truly preserving the essences of ADD for it is this perversion of the rule set in my opinion that is by far the worst attack on the D6 notation.

Lithic
06-09-2010, 10:07 PM
I would really focus on binded gear if your worried about truly preserving the essences of ADD for it is this perversion of the rule set in my opinion that is by far the worst attack on the D6 notation.

Bound gear is alot closer to PnP than non-bound gear. If my lvl 12 fighter got killed by a beholder while assaulting the necromancer's keep, I didn't get to pass it over to my lvl 2 rogue that I rolled up the next weekend. There are reasons bound gear sucks, but preserving the essence of PnP is not one of them.

sirgog
06-09-2010, 10:19 PM
I disagree with this. All trade and sells happen in plat. It just make sense to use the highest monetary value. I.E. Like Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nicke and Penny.

Let Plat Reign Supreme!!!!

I'm also a huge fan of this change (although I'd like to see a clearer difference between plat and silver if there's folks that find them hard to distinguish).

Every player to player trade done by anyone that's not a level 5 is done in plat. Now finally, the vendors get in on the action too, and stop acting like level 3s in the Harbor.

esoitl
06-09-2010, 10:32 PM
Personally I would prefer they drop Platinum entirely and just list everything as Gold with a decimal for silver/copper. For example: 123,456,789.12 Gold

Having ONE denomination of currency would go a LONG way towards simplifying the monetary system, which I "believe" is the goal behind this/these changes is it not?

Considering all weapon and item values currently in the game list GOLD, Silver, and Copper as their base price, I cant see going through and changing ALL of them to instead list their prices as Plat, Gold, Silver, Copper.

Simplest solution = Drop Plat entirely, list everything as gold only.

The whole idea behind the different coins is the same we see today.
A penny, nickel, dime all mean a different currency. In the D&D setting they used different metals for their coins and they all have their relative values, just like we see in the game.

Decimals just don't make sense. You can easily have 5 silver coins but how is one really to have half a gold coin?

Gold was always the standard, even if platinum coins are worth more. In the setting most people would only have a handful of platinum coins, if any at all except those who were immensely powerful and rich and there was no auction house where people sold items for 2 million gold.

Although it makes a bit more sense in the DDO setting because of the system they have provided us with, platinum should never be the standard coin.

That's almost like saying a 10$ bill should be the standard we use in today's currency because governments spend exorbitant sums.

Samadhi
06-09-2010, 10:35 PM
/notsigned. Been thinking in terms of plat for 4 years already; about time they caught up. You are breaking a couple thousand plat by level four after all. It only makes sense to think in terms of the highest units available, when we are generally doing math in the "thousands of" said highest unit. Would you go to buy a house and negotiate the price in pennies?

LeslieWest_GuitarGod
06-09-2010, 10:53 PM
/signed. also have been a fan of capping the Auction House. No reason new players should have to face impossible prices for gear (at least for the short term).

There should be a flat cap (a set percent markup/profit allowed) with maybe a curve thrown in for extremely rare items. This would handicap plat farmers (as well as vets that want to price gauge) and make the game more accessible to the newer player.

sirgog
06-09-2010, 10:56 PM
/signed. also have been a fan of capping the Auction House. No reason new players should have to face impossible prices for gear (at least for the short term).

There should be a flat cap (a set percent markup/profit allowed) with maybe a curve thrown in for extremely rare items. This would handicap plat farmers (as well as vets that want to price gauge) and make the game more accessible to the newer player.

All that would do is push the good items off the AH, so that they are only ever traded on the forums. Then you'd have less platinum removed through AH fees, so plat would become even more worthless - and so prices would soar.

The AH fees are the only thing preventing items like Major Mana Pots selling for 25k PP or more - and most of the fees come from the successfully sold high value items (like 750k PP Bloodstones).

So if you want to keep good items *forever* out of the hands of newbies, cap the AH at lower than 2m PP, or drop its fees.

ahpook
06-10-2010, 12:03 AM
Agree with the op.

If it really was confusing, they should have just got rid of plat and used only gold. In a game where coins have no weight, plat really serves no purpose and they should have left it out from the start.

Dark_Helmet
06-10-2010, 01:32 AM
RIP DDO.

D&D has all of the tables based in gold which is the most common coin.


Coins
The most common coin is the gold piece (gp). A gold piece is worth 10 silver pieces. Each silver piece is worth 10 copper pieces (cp). In addition to copper, silver, and gold coins, there are also platinum pieces (pp), which are each worth 10 gp.

The standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce (fifty to the pound).

I am sorry that the decimal system is too hard, but the computer does have a built in calculator to help you move the decimal point to the right or left 1 place as you go up or down the system.

AyumiAmakusa
06-10-2010, 01:40 AM
I say we change the use of platinum to Uranium and make it Purple~~.Lol...

joneb1999
06-10-2010, 02:14 AM
I dont mind things quoted in platinum as long as gold remains in the general currency table.

Tobril
06-10-2010, 02:19 AM
I disagree with this. All trade and sells happen in plat. It just make sense to use the highest monetary value. I.E. Like Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nicke and Penny.

Let Plat Reign Supreme!!!!


Dollars are used as a standard in the US even though there are higher denominations.

Gold is what DnD is based on, so I support staying with the gold standard.

TreknaQudane
06-10-2010, 02:23 AM
Heh, only problem is in your analogy, plat is the equivalent of a $10 bill.

Plat = $10 (Ten)
Gold = $1 (One)
Quarter = $0.25 = NO DDO Equal unless you go back to AD&D, then its electrum
Silver = $0.10 (Dime)
Copper = $0.01 (Penny)

If you look at how the ORIGINAL monetary system was set up in AD&D, it was designed to "mimic" the US currency system.

Anyway, I still think we need to drop PP, SP, and CP and just show all currency as XXX.XX Gold.

Or you can go with...

Plat = Dollar
Gold = Dime
Silver = Penny
Copper = Mill

bobbryan2
06-10-2010, 02:25 AM
Nah... the gold standard has been way too annoying for too long.

I HATE it when people talk to me in gold because "that's what the auction uses." Long before the auction was around, everyone talked in plat... and the gold standard is what screwed everything up and had vets and newbies talking in different languages.

I'm glad it'll get everyone back on the same page.

bobbryan2
06-10-2010, 02:30 AM
Dollars are used as a standard in the US even though there are higher denominations.

Gold is what DnD is based on, so I support staying with the gold standard.

But plat was what DDO was based on.... so I support staying with the plat standard.

TiranBlade
06-10-2010, 02:34 AM
I would have to agree, with Platinum being the rarest of all the coins, it's use would see less in circulation than the rest of the coins.

I am a person who actually favors the Silver Standard over Gold as was closer to historical from my understanding, but that's a personal preference. That and the fact that Gold is also a very rare metal in and of itself and would also circulate less than silver, at least amoungst the common masses.

However, not knowing much, but learning more as I am reading books on it, about Eberron, I have seen Platinum used in the Novels, so in Eberron, since it's pretty similar to modern day in some respects, it may be that the Platinum, Gold, Silver, and Copper may be in controlled markets. That way there would be enough of all types of metals to be able to have More Platinum in circulation than the rest. If this where true though, our character's would have to be able to store our money in the various banks and be able to access a credit line, but that would be a bit, complicated to code.

Also, the main reason for them switching the money standard would probably equate to the developement team reaching out to newer players and those who have a hard time reading how much they have(hence the coins converting over to the higher values now in your inventory).

Either way I can see good argument for both sides. And I am personally going to stay neutral on this point. However, I agree that the Gold Standard is the D&D 3.5 Standard, while the other is the standard used by other Game Competitors and this may be a way to both simplifiy this game and bring more players in, hence more money, and more money for developement.

I'll leave the rest to you,
Tiran Blade

ADDITIONAL NOTATION: The issue where colorblindness comes into effect under the new standard is in the buy sell window where the items show how much you can buy or sell them for, it looks identical for both plat and silver.

Quikster
06-10-2010, 02:57 AM
dont matter what you call it, i still have more then enough. Honestly, i really dont care. I look at end rewards to see if there is anything interesting, if not, take the highest value. Drop it to my haggle bard and sell it when shes full. I really dont worry about getting an 800 plat sword or 8,000 gold sword. Waste of my inventory slot honestly, but then im an elitist prick so take take that with a grain of salt.

J1NG
06-10-2010, 02:58 AM
ADDITIONAL NOTATION: The issue where colorblindness comes into effect under the new standard is in the buy sell window where the items show how much you can buy or sell them for, it looks identical for both plat and silver.

^^ This.

bobbryan2

If you read the issues before, you'll see there isn't a real issue with switching over to plat. It's the issue that you can't tell easily what you're being sold or buying for in the buy and sell windows at vendors. As the Plat and Silver are too close in similiarity to distinguish easily.

If this is solved, most people probably won't give a second thought about wanting gold as the main currency denominator back.

Would you be happy trying to buy something thinking it's 50 silver and finding out that you can't buy it because it's actually 50 platinum?

In fact, Turbine will likely find themselves and their GM's on call all the time. "Why can't I buy something I have enough money for"? Which takes time away from other more pressing issues that you could be involved in.

Again, agree with plat take over, but disagree with it's icon in the store windows. Make them obvious to tell from one look please.

J1NG

bobbryan2
06-10-2010, 03:10 AM
^^ This.

bobbryan2

If you read the issues before, you'll see there isn't a real issue with switching over to plat. It's the issue that you can't tell easily what you're being sold or buying for in the buy and sell windows at vendors. As the Plat and Silver are too close in similiarity to distinguish easily.

If this is solved, most people probably won't give a second thought about wanting gold as the main currency denominator back.

Would you be happy trying to buy something thinking it's 50 silver and finding out that you can't buy it because it's actually 50 platinum?

In fact, Turbine will likely find themselves and their GM's on call all the time. "Why can't I buy something I have enough money for"? Which takes time away from other more pressing issues that you could be involved in.

Again, agree with plat take over, but disagree with it's icon in the store windows. Make them obvious to tell from one look please.

J1NG

Those issues are overstated.

Basically nothing is priced in silver. To this day, I've never even looked at my silver and copper count.

AnarchistHero
06-10-2010, 03:10 AM
Just an idea I had guys.. I don't know if there IS an actual SIGN for it, but how about, in the inventory, keeping them listed as they are. BUT Underneath having an actual box listing your total " Coinage"
Sort of..
1 pp 10 gp 2 sp
(Currency Symbol here ) 112
I know its borderline off topic, but... Just thought was interesting :)
X

J1NG
06-10-2010, 03:21 AM
Those issues are overstated.

Basically nothing is priced in silver. To this day, I've never even looked at my silver and copper count.

I beg to differ. There are plenty of items from the bar listed in copper and silver. Minor? Yes. Unimportant? No.

It won't be minor when more new players come in and don't notice the difference. GM's being called out for telling new players they can't see properly? Or GM's called out because the Elite Raid you're in didn't have a condition that was solved when it was solved properly?

Which one is more important to the DDO community as a whole? Dump the rest of the coin denominations and just stick with platinum? Or just changing the graphic of one small icon and solve the whole matter in one go? :)

Overstated yes. But I'd rather have this super small issue solved now than waiting for a GM because they're too busy solving these little coin transactions for newer players instead of my Elite Raid which has gone wrong for no fault of my own. :)

J1NG

Xionanx
06-10-2010, 03:40 AM
Why dont we just ditch the whole thing then and adopt the Exalted money system of "If its under your "wealth" score, you can buy an infinite amount of them. Then simply give players a "wealth" score based on their level and total favor.

Because frankly, as has been pointed out by others, most people who have played the game for more then a year have reached a point where money is no longer and issue and or concern, they could "in effect" buy anything they want from a vendor and not even care.

We could then get a "Item Eater" ALA Dungeon Runners to follow us around and "Eat" our junk look right out of chests so we don't even have to bother running to the vendor to trash them. These "Eaten" items could then be converted to loot you actually want by allowing you to "pick" from a list of items after you feed your item eater X amount of total + bonus items.

For those people who insist on using some kind of "currency" to trade with other players, you can issue each new character 100 "credits" when they get off the boat, which can then by used to trade for stuff from other players. Have a "hard cap" in place limiting the number of "credits" a person can have to 1000 so that people dont hoard credits ruin the credit economy by making a Bloodstone worth 8,000,000 credits!

Finally, as a way to increase your max credits allowed, you can sell an ePeen measuring device in the store that actually ships a physical ***** (Breast? for ladies?) measuring tool that you use at home. You then upload the data to the game and based on the size of yours compared to the average you may be granted a larger (or smaller) credit pool.

*Please recognize sarcasm for what it is!

In the long run I could care less what Turbine calls the in game money. Just make it universal and make it ONE type. Having 4 types of coins is just ******** in a PC game where all monetary transactions are done automatically and you dont have to worry about "making change":rolleyes:

schizmark2
06-10-2010, 04:32 AM
I've just started DDO, and I've got to say that the economy is my only real disappointment so far. There's a whole LOT of coin rolling around out there. In LoTRO (soon to go F2P, and my reason for trying DDO), it takes a thousand silver to make one gold piece, and here it only takes what, ten gold pieces to make a plat? There must be boatloads of coin being dropped out there. It kind of takes the fun out of it, don't you think? I've got just under 60 gold in my other game, and I can't imagine ever being able to go through it all. What the heck does anyone do with a million plat? I'm guessing there are plenty of long-time players out there that have as much or more; especially if the'yre willing do drop two hundred thousand of them for something I got in a level 3 dungeon. Just kidding there, but do you see my point? What's the purpose of having tons of money if it just takes more money to buy stuff because everybody has tons of money?

Xionanx
06-10-2010, 04:39 AM
I've just started DDO, and I've got to say that the economy is my only real disappointment so far. There's a whole LOT of coin rolling around out there. In LoTRO (soon to go F2P, and my reason for trying DDO), it takes a thousand silver to make one gold piece, and here it only takes what, ten gold pieces to make a plat? There must be boatloads of coin being dropped out there. It kind of takes the fun out of it, don't you think? I've got just under 60 gold in my other game, and I can't imagine ever being able to go through it all. What the heck does anyone do with a million plat? I'm guessing there are plenty of long-time players out there that have as much or more; especially if the'yre willing do drop two hundred thousand of them for something I got in a level 3 dungeon. Just kidding there, but do you see my point? What's the purpose of having tons of money if it just takes more money to buy stuff because everybody has tons of money?

Precisely. People started trading in PP because people have too much of it. A know a few "long time" players who don't even really use money anymore, they make item for item trades because money is nearly worthless to them. I mean what another 100k PP when you have 90,000k+ PP already spread across your toons?

Kromize
06-10-2010, 04:52 AM
Or...have a check box in the gameplay tab for 'Use gold as your standard instead of platinum'?

Lost_Leader
06-10-2010, 05:09 AM
I like the change to plat. As with many others, I've been speaking prices in terms of platinum for years now.

Comparing Platinum and Gold to 10 and 1 dollar bills isn't accurate. It would be accurate it we called a platinum piece a ten-gold piece. Platinum is currently the highest denomination in-game, and it seems to me that most people speak in terms of platinum when trading.

Saying that using a plat system instead of a gold system is against the feel of PnP is also not really true. Just because most campaign settings use a gold base standard in economy, doesn't mean they all have to. I seem to remember some fairly popular setting using steel coins? Just consider it a flavor of the house rules.

Getting everyone onto the same system is a good thing, in my opinion. Personally I like this system better, but then again, its the system I've been using in my head already.

Zippo
06-10-2010, 05:19 AM
Isn't it pretty obvious if something is plat or silver in every instance where it matters?

On your character sheet, obviously the one between copper and gold is silver, therfore the one on the end is plat. It is in the same order along the bottom of a trade screen (and even says pp, gp, sp, or cp next to these amounts).

In a trade winder, top is plat, 3rd from bottom is silver. Again all rows are labeled with pp, gp, sp, or cp, so no confusion there.

When you loot somthing, it says what kind of coin it is, again no confusion.

The only place I can think of that you might need is the auction house. The worst case would be something that is 1500pp, 0gp, 0sp, 5cp for example. Doesnt the auction house actually list it as 1500, 0, 0, 5 (with the little coin icons in between)? I can't check at the moment cause I am not in game, but thats vaguely how I remember it. If there are 4 numbers you should know it is 1500pp, not silver. If it isn't listed as such, maybe you should instead be asking for the AH prices to change the coin icon in the prices to the letters. That would solve your problem, while letting the devs change things to a plat standard.

It sucks that DDO is taking this small step away from PnP, but in any PnP game as monty haul as our MMO, the DM would use a plat standard as well (if not a "Starfire Ruby" standard, or some such larger currency denomination). It will also stop all the confusion that newbs get at the different currencies. I don't know why it is so hard for new people to understand that pp=10$, gp=1$, sl=10C, pp=1C, but it seems to be.


Exactly what I was thinking,

When you look at your inventory you see it broken down left to right
xxxxpp xxxxgp xxxxsp xxxxcp

when you go to the store AND the auction house it is the same thing.

When you break a box, crate, etc it says silver, gold, plat, etc.


I am sympathetic to the fact that some people are colorblind but the way it is implemented and being changed too, it should not matter in the least.

Zippo
06-10-2010, 05:26 AM
^^ This.

bobbryan2

If you read the issues before, you'll see there isn't a real issue with switching over to plat. It's the issue that you can't tell easily what you're being sold or buying for in the buy and sell windows at vendors. As the Plat and Silver are too close in similiarity to distinguish easily.

If this is solved, most people probably won't give a second thought about wanting gold as the main currency denominator back.

Would you be happy trying to buy something thinking it's 50 silver and finding out that you can't buy it because it's actually 50 platinum?

In fact, Turbine will likely find themselves and their GM's on call all the time. "Why can't I buy something I have enough money for"? Which takes time away from other more pressing issues that you could be involved in.

Again, agree with plat take over, but disagree with it's icon in the store windows. Make them obvious to tell from one look please.

J1NG

Yes you can, there is a specific order that it goes in. From left to right

pp, gp, sp, cp Now if you have two amounts side by side that are the "same color" the amount on the left is the higher amount (or the platinum). That is REAL EASY to understand, it has been that way for years. It isn't something new.

itatchi83
06-10-2010, 05:51 AM
Yes you can, there is a specific order that it goes in. From left to right

pp, gp, sp, cp Now if you have two amounts side by side that are the "same color" the amount on the left is the higher amount (or the platinum). That is REAL EASY to understand, it has been that way for years. It isn't something new.

.....what if they are dyslexic/dyscalculia?

Or what if a player is schizophrenic and the voices in his head tell him that plat is silver, and silver is copper, and gold is plat?


My point is, you can't really make a change across the board, just because a small minority is affected negatively by the situation represented, because it takes away from the majority's enjoyment of the game.

I really don't understand how being color blind affects your ability to differentiate between the various denominations within the game. Everywhere that I see it, it is clearly labeled in words, not colors.

I really don't care if Gold was the standard in PnP. It has nothing to with the reasoning behind using plat as the standard.

osirisisis
06-10-2010, 06:45 AM
Bound gear is alot closer to PnP than non-bound gear. If my lvl 12 fighter got killed by a beholder while assaulting the necromancer's keep, I didn't get to pass it over to my lvl 2 rogue that I rolled up the next weekend. There are reasons bound gear sucks, but preserving the essence of PnP is not one of them.

Well maybe your lvl 12 fighter shouldn't be wearing lvl 2 rogue armor lol..He might last longer ..:D O wait theres no min level in PNP, there no spell points in PNP, No rest shrines, no lag :), .......... defenantly no binded gear.........

At the same time in PNP if I come out to loot your fallen lvl 12 fighter of all his goods because I was hideing in the shadows waiting for someone to come and brave the beholder who has now move on..........but I can't because there all bound? that would not be close to PNP at all

Surcus1
06-10-2010, 07:03 AM
Unlike the dice-issue, twf and most other changes, I actually dislike this change. I would prefer seeing all prices in gold, thanks. I hardly know anyone that use plat(though I have heard it, of course), and this is something that actually never was used in PnP, even in Epic campaigns.

systemstate
06-10-2010, 08:27 AM
Or...have a check box in the gameplay tab for 'Use gold as your standard instead of platinum'?

THIS. Totally this.

Solmage
06-10-2010, 08:41 AM
I'm also a huge fan of this change (although I'd like to see a clearer difference between plat and silver if there's folks that find them hard to distinguish).

Every player to player trade done by anyone that's not a level 5 is done in plat. Now finally, the vendors get in on the action too, and stop acting like level 3s in the Harbor.

I like this change too, and I think it helps the new players, even though they don't realize it yet. How do you distinguish a new player from a vet? The vet talks in plat, the noob in gold.

It got fairly ridiculous that some noobie would say ZOMG A bloodstone is selling for 1 million!111!!1! When in fact they mean 100k plat, to which someone should have replied, well, that's a bargain, get it.

Also, it was VERY easy to do a mistake in the AH if you weren't paying attention, because the large numbers were hard to distinguish. (Wait is he asking for 100k or 1000k plat?)

If people have a problem differentiating an item selling for max 9 plat vs 9 silver (the only possible confusion since anything over 9 silver is converted to gold) perhaps a texture could be applied to the plat.

Drfirewater79
06-10-2010, 08:48 AM
/not signed

the reason being ... you never know how much money you actually have in ddo ...

its not like in pnp where you will never have a million plat ... in ddo its a common thing

with a plat standard and automatic transferance to plat from gold once over 100 makes sense for DnD in a video game grind mmo format like we have ...

people get confused all the time over when someone says ... man that guy wants 2 mill for that coaker ...

2 mill gold not so expensive 2 mill plat ... insanely expensive ...


by keeping everything in plat and adding all these plat syncs like new guild housing its going to allow for more reasonable AH prices .... and at worst case .... easier math for it ...

the problem with going back to gold standard is that its too much money categories to worry about ...

in pnp its different cause most times you wont see 100,000 plat on a single character for months (real time not game time) and depending on your DM and if you follow the DnD PnP rules to the letter or not ... you might not even see that much at lvl 16 or 17 after purchasing gear and what not ...

THIS IS AN MMO ... multi tier currency just adds to fustration over pricing ..

THIS IS COMING FROM ONE OF THE PEOPLE MOST PEVED ABOUT HOW DDO HAS BECOME GENERIC MMO BS.

so its not that i dont understand but the gold standard doesnt work for this mmo just like turn based combat doesn't work.

Setin_Myways
06-10-2010, 08:50 AM
Or...have a check box in the gameplay tab for 'Use gold as your standard instead of platinum'?

this is what i say, but add in a choice to configure the look of the coin too. Most coins look different. Since all coins weigh the same, they should be different shapes and or size because the metals themselves have a different mass, so they will have more or less of the given metal to have the same weight.

I was very confused about how people normally trade in plat over the shout channels. I think this change to plat makes sense because it is mostly the community standard. i do not see htis as an affront to D&D either. A pnp char will adjust to the 'standard' based on personal wealth and encumbrance, until they get a portable hole or bag of holding (our 4th and 5th slots). In pnp, once I reach a certain lvl of wealth, you pay the barmaid and tavern keeper with a plat piece and say 'keep the change'...

The visual disability make sense, but i still think you can tell the value by the position can't you?

Stanley_Nicholas
06-10-2010, 09:17 AM
Not signed. 99% of those who measure their time on DDO using a time span larger than weeks know that platinum is the standard of the game. It's what all the experienced players use and will continue to use, and the current way the game presents things only serves to put new players on a different page from the more experienced.

The argument that platinum and silver will be confused is just plain silly. Colorblind people have a legitimate reason to ask that the icons be made easier to distinguish from one another, but it doesn't really have a lot of point since there is effectively zero functional reason for copper and silver to even be in the game. They're only there for flavor purposes. At no point in the game does it matter how much copper or silver you have, period.

Making plat the official standard only makes sense, because of how readily available cash and powerful magic items are. In PnP gold makes sense because it's not run the same way, but this is one of those circumstances where the realities of this game necessitate a small deviation from PnP standards. Even vendors give you your cash in plat when you sell your 128kgp sword. All they're doing is making plat the official standard instead of the unofficial standard, which will remove a lot of unneeded confusion. So I'm all for the change.

I'm also not in favor of a check box, because again it would only lead to some people using one standard and others using another. There is no need to keep the current unnecessary confusion, let alone add more of it.

thwart
06-10-2010, 09:20 AM
All the cool kids are using the electrum standard.








;)

bobbryan2
06-10-2010, 11:41 AM
Also... not to put too fine a point on it.

But why are we talking about colorblindness? Plat is white, silver is grey in the game. I didn't know there was a black/white colorblindness out there.

I can totally understand why some people have harder time telling it apart, but it's not one of those standard colorblindnesses either. Even people that see positively no color at all would probably have a harder time seperating silver from gold than platinum from silver.

And really... not everything has a switch. A UI option would only serve to keep people talking different languages. We need to ween newbies off of the gold standard in order to facilitate better understanding.

SisAmethyst
06-10-2010, 12:20 PM
Even without being color blind I was first a bit surprised by this change. I agree that the color between platin and silver is not that big of a difference. I just thought 'damn, the loot value has dropped a lot' and was close before sell all the vendor trash that is only worth some silver coins as I realized it is platinum ;)

But we may probably get used to it, but I am pretty sure some of the older/returning players may accidentally sell something just looking at the value an thinking it is silver instead of platinum. Welcome, you have been scamed by Turbine :)
However, adding a switch is I guess too much asked. It may just take care and a second look in the future (Hovering with the mouse over if there are doubts may reveal what it is).

just my 2 silver coins (well could be platin, but not sure)

carlosjuero
06-10-2010, 12:42 PM
Also... not to put too fine a point on it.

But why are we talking about colorblindness? Plat is white, silver is grey in the game. I didn't know there was a black/white colorblindness out there.

I can totally understand why some people have harder time telling it apart, but it's not one of those standard colorblindnesses either. Even people that see positively no color at all would probably have a harder time seperating silver from gold than platinum from silver.

And really... not everything has a switch. A UI option would only serve to keep people talking different languages. We need to ween newbies off of the gold standard in order to facilitate better understanding.

There are many different levels of color blindness - certain shades look identical to certain people (I have trouble w/ certain shades of green/red/yellow and combinations thereof). Black & White colorblindness has absolutely nothing to do with it - you apparently don't have colorblindness thus come up with conclusions that make sense to you, but have little validity in the world of those dealing with it.

Samadhi
06-10-2010, 12:57 PM
I know 5 active colorblind people in game. I have heard many different complaints about various aspects of puzzles etc that rely on color. I've never once heard any of them say they couldn't tell the difference between silver and plat... /notbuyingthatargument


I could potentially buy the "purist to PnP" argument - but personally I gave up all of my purist arguments the moment they picked eberron, added WF, titan raid, etc. This stopped being like pnp-dnd for me a long time ago.

RTN
06-10-2010, 01:25 PM
/not signed

Most of us talk in plat when trading/buying something. Our inventories default to plat. It's a long overdue change.

Deathseeker
06-10-2010, 01:50 PM
/Not signed.

I hate converting everything into plat in my head when the game can do it for me. It simplifies things and I like the change. It also saves space on the inventory screen as only 1 of the types of coin has to go beyond a single digit.

I like the largest denomination to be the standard.

rdasca
06-10-2010, 02:01 PM
/signed

This is just one more example of Turbine moving away from the core D&D to a clone of some not to be named MMO.
DDO is suppose to be based on D&D but apparently 3d6 is too hard to understand so change it. Converting gold to plat is way too much math therefore to hard so change it.
Hey I have an idea, it is too hard for me to figure out which spell to cast, can you make it so I only have to push one button with my mouse and the most appropriate spell will go off depending on the encounter?

esoitl
06-10-2010, 03:25 PM
Or you can go with...

Plat = Dollar
Gold = Dime
Silver = Penny
Copper = Mill

The problem with your real world analogy is that it doesn't make sense.
If you are to compare the D&D realm with real world 1GP = 1$ and there is no changing that idea.

Just because there is a 10$ bill, people don't say 'I just spent 3 10$ bills on a case of beer'

The argument of using the biggest notation is ridiculous. A dollar is standard in real world notation and it makes no sense to change that standard, so why does changing the D&D world standard make sense?

Stanley_Nicholas
06-11-2010, 12:40 AM
There are many different levels of color blindness - certain shades look identical to certain people (I have trouble w/ certain shades of green/red/yellow and combinations thereof). Black & White colorblindness has absolutely nothing to do with it - you apparently don't have colorblindness thus come up with conclusions that make sense to you, but have little validity in the world of those dealing with it.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, as I have no visual impairments. But it seems to me that black and white have no bearing on colorblindness. Black is no color; the absence of light; nothing. White is all colors at once; pure light; everything. It seems to me that if you are lacking the ability to discriminate between shades of black and white, you are not suffering from colorblindness. You are suffering from blindness.

Cendaer
06-11-2010, 02:01 AM
Firstly, /signed to the OP.


Secondly, for all you people calling "dollar" a denomination, STOP IT.

The dollar is a CURRENCY. A $1 note is a DENOMINATION. $10 note is a DENOMINATION.

Saying "that's a dollar" is a colloquialism. Saying "that's three-ninety-five" is a colloquialism. Saying "that's a buck fifty" is a colloquialism.

The dollar is NOT the highest denomination, the dollar is the currency. The highest dollar denomination is the $100 note.

Your arguments that all currency should be notated according to it's highest denomination are in error, because the highest denomination is the $100 note. The $1 note is the sixth highest denomination.

D&D doesn't notate currency according to the highest denomination for the same reason we don't notate currency according to the highest denomination in real life. If such were the case, price tags would be notated as $0.0159 instead of $1.59.

Oh, and I hate to break it to all of you who don't already know, but platinum is an illusion here in DDO, overlaying that fact that what you see is 4,294,967 pp 295 cp, but what you really HAVE is 4,294,967,295 cp.

So there.

bobbryan2
06-11-2010, 02:08 AM
There are many different levels of color blindness - certain shades look identical to certain people (I have trouble w/ certain shades of green/red/yellow and combinations thereof). Black & White colorblindness has absolutely nothing to do with it - you apparently don't have colorblindness thus come up with conclusions that make sense to you, but have little validity in the world of those dealing with it.

But plat and silver isn't green/red/yellow or any combination thereof. That's my point. They're both neutrals. Lack of color entirely.

Cendaer
06-11-2010, 02:26 AM
You can easily have 5 silver coins but how is one really to have half a gold coin?

Actually, quite easily, especially if you follow real-world historical examples.

More than just a few coin-based currencies minted coins that could be snapped, or readily cut, into equal-sized pieces, by minting them with scored or imprinted lines on one of the two faces. The reason this was done, is because "making change" could be cumbersome (or downright impossible) for those folks who didn't have ready access to an excess supply of coins which could be kept around expressly for the purpose of "making change."

The most oft-mentioned examples of this sort of coin, are "pieces of eight," which were actually coins minted with scoring on one face that divided the single coin into eight equal pieces, and also made it easier to simply snap the coin in half, or in quarters, or into eighths.

Deathseeker
06-11-2010, 04:10 AM
Your arguments that all currency should be notated according to it's highest denomination are in error, because the highest denomination is the $100 note. The $1 note is the sixth highest denomination.

Because comparing DDO to real life financial symmantics is relevant how? It's a game. If prices are shown in the highest denomination is easier, then it can happen. Real life practices with dollars are irrelevant.


D&D doesn't notate currency according to the highest denomination for the same reason we don't notate currency according to the highest denomination in real life. If such were the case, price tags would be notated as $0.0159 instead of $1.59.

How can you say you know the "reason" DDO currently doesn't use plat? You met with the devs and were told their rationale? Since they are changing it in U5, obviously the devs don't appear to agree that their reason for doing it originally in gold matches your rationale above, or they wouldn't be changing it.


Oh, and I hate to break it to all of you who don't already know, but platinum is an illusion here in DDO, overlaying that fact that what you see is 4,294,967 pp 295 cp, but what you really HAVE is 4,294,967,295 cp.

Not sure how you differentiate an "illusion" from "reality" in a video game, but even if it's an "illusion" by your definition, it sure is easier to look at 1000 plat than it is 1,000,000 cp on the screen. Sounds like a perfectly fine illusion to me.

Rasczak
06-11-2010, 05:06 AM
DDO is becoming like Zimbabwe :(

Let's do what Germany did and scrap all money and start again. Plat becomes gold, gold becomes silver and silver becomes bronze. Anyone upset at losing their bronze coins I'll replace personally ;)

But then again if this was standard pnp, I would be asking you how you carry so much in your backpack......

Solmage
06-11-2010, 07:43 AM
The problem with your real world analogy is that it doesn't make sense.
If you are to compare the D&D realm with real world 1GP = 1$ and there is no changing that idea.

Just because there is a 10$ bill, people don't say 'I just spent 3 10$ bills on a case of beer'

The argument of using the biggest notation is ridiculous. A dollar is standard in real world notation and it makes no sense to change that standard, so why does changing the D&D world standard make sense?

There are MANY examples of real life situations where inflation has lead to renaming a currency and/or "re-adjusting" it by removing a bunch of zeroes from it, and having to go and convert your old bills and coins to the new one. In some cases the conversion was even limited, leading to people loosing a lot of money.

So consider this a change in currency due to inflation.

Cendaer
06-11-2010, 11:10 AM
Because comparing DDO to real life financial symmantics is relevant how? It's a game. If prices are shown in the highest denomination is easier, then it can happen. Real life practices with dollars are irrelevant.

Tell that to:

I disagree with this. All trade and sells happen in plat. It just make sense to use the highest monetary value. I.E. Like Dollar, Quarter, Dime, Nicke and Penny.
&

Dollars are used as a standard in the US even though there are higher denominations.
&

Or you can go with...

Plat = Dollar
Gold = Dime
Silver = Penny
Copper = Mill
&

the several people in this thread:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=253037

who seem to want DDO to follow a nomenclature standard used by US currency.

I'm not the one who started those comparisons.


How can you say you know the "reason" DDO currently doesn't use plat? You met with the devs and were told their rationale? Since they are changing it in U5, obviously the devs don't appear to agree that their reason for doing it originally in gold matches your rationale above, or they wouldn't be changing it.

If that rationale isn't obvious to you, I'm sorry you didn't pick up on it. I'll state it again for you:

D&D doesn't notate currency according to the highest denomination for the same reason we don't notate currency according to the highest denomination in real life. If such were the case, price tags would be notated as $0.0159 instead of $1.59.

Their rationale was, therefore, obviously based upon the gold standard laid out in DnD (the trademarked intellectual property from which DDO sprang forth), and the fact that decimal notations are more confusing to most people than base-10 conversions (which are are already ridiculously simple to begin with).


Not sure how you differentiate an "illusion" from "reality" in a video game, but even if it's an "illusion" by your definition, it sure is easier to look at 1000 plat than it is 1,000,000 cp on the screen. Sounds like a perfectly fine illusion to me.

It is an illusion because the notation of platinum on the screen is nothing more than a veneer over the fact that the system itself is based upon copper. We see 1,000 platinum on our screen, but that's simply a UI dressing; as far as the game is concerned, we have 1,000,000 copper. The silver, gold, and platinum coins you see noted on your screen are nothing more than the game dividing your number of copper coins by factors of 10.

Since we're going for simplification and "easy" here, why not eliminate all denominations of coins other than the most basic (copper), that way there's no conversion to ever be confused about? Then just use one generic term like "coins," "marks," "credits," or "seals" to describe the currency. Then we could all feel more wealthy (even though we're really not), because we'd be discussing said coins in terms of billions, rather than capping out on millions like we do now. Doing so would eliminate the need for four seperate UI elements for coins, and no one would ever have to think about base-10 conversions again.

If simplicity is the goal, why not take it to the simplest form available?

Gkar
06-11-2010, 11:12 AM
Lets get rid of everything except copper so I look richer.

Deathseeker
06-11-2010, 12:09 PM
Since we're going for simplification and "easy" here, why not eliminate all denominations of coins other than the most basic (copper), that way there's no conversion to ever be confused about? Then just use one generic term like "coins," "marks," "credits," or "seals" to describe the currency. Then we could all feel more wealthy (even though we're really not), because we'd be discussing said coins in terms of billions, rather than capping out on millions like we do now. Doing so would eliminate the need for four seperate UI elements for coins, and no one would ever have to think about base-10 conversions again.

If simplicity is the goal, why not take it to the simplest form available?

Actually, instead of responding back and forth on the other points (as that would be debate for the sake of debate at this point), I'll focus on this one....as I actually agree with it in one sense. Using just Plat (the standard) and maybe gold and eliminating the others wouldn't bother me at all. Might be a tiny bit more expensive for very brand new players, but the plat inflation has been so heavy at this point I don't think that matters too much.

Im fine with it as is in U5 (with Plat as the standard now), but dumping silver/copper wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

esoitl
06-11-2010, 12:22 PM
There are MANY examples of real life situations where inflation has lead to renaming a currency and/or "re-adjusting" it by removing a bunch of zeroes from it, and having to go and convert your old bills and coins to the new one. In some cases the conversion was even limited, leading to people loosing a lot of money.

So consider this a change in currency due to inflation.

But when has DDO ever experienced inflation?
Never.

Everything still costs the same as it did last week, the week before, and even last year.
The value of the coins are not changing, the notation is changing which is a huge difference.

This change is akin to the world listing prices by a 10$ standard. For example, if we were to extend this change to the real world, a tank of gas costing 33$ now would be changed to 3.3 10$ bills.

Look at how the change in notation will effect items in game.
A potion costing 886 GP will now be listed as 88 PP 6 GP. The Enchanted Rations at the bar will now be listed as 47 PP 2 GP 8 SP instead of the current 472 GP 8 SP. A weapon previous listed at a base price of 97462 GP 4 CP will now be listed as 9746 PP 2 GP 4 CP.

I don't see that as simplifying things at all as most prices aren't round numbers that can be easily changed to PP from GP. The prices are frankly going to look awkward.

The one place it *may* be simpler is the Auction House where the prices are normally round numbers although it is hardly difficult to navigate the Auction House as it is.
Maybe some people have a difficult time with grade school math but dividing and multiplying by 10 is not hard to figure out. If this is being changed for simplicity, I think Turbine has missed the plot as now instead of dealing with one or two coins at a store we're going to have things listed in 3 coins more often.

Lord_Ravenclaw
06-11-2010, 12:30 PM
I personally do not like the idea of going to plat as the standard. As of now when I pick up that 98,000 gp item I know with a glance what its worth. Once it goes to plat I will have to figure out its gold value to know its worth to me. The only time I worry about thinking in plat is when someone wants to sell something on trade chat. It will also slow me down looking at the AH.

As a person being color blind I can not tell the difference between pp or sp. The only way I know is by there placement. But this does not bother me much as most gaming company's and people don't care or take in consideration of people with disabilities. Must be able to hear to join my group is a good one that comes to mind. But that's another topic.

Deathseeker
06-11-2010, 12:35 PM
But when has DDO ever experienced inflation?
Never.

Everything still costs the same as it did last week, the week before, and even last year.
The value of the coins are not changing, the notation is changing which is a huge difference.

This change is akin to the world listing prices by a 10$ standard. For example, if we were to extend this change to the real world, a tank of gas costing 33$ now would be changed to 3.3 10$ bills.

Look at how the change in notation will effect items in game.
A potion costing 886 GP will now be listed as 88 PP 6 GP. The Enchanted Rations at the bar will now be listed as 47 PP 2 GP 8 SP instead of the current 472 GP 8 SP. A weapon previous listed at a base price of 97462 GP 4 CP will now be listed as 9746 PP 2 GP 4 CP.

I don't see that as simplifying things at all as most prices aren't round numbers that can be easily changed to PP from GP. The prices are frankly going to look awkward.

The one place it *may* be simpler is the Auction House where the prices are normally round numbers although it is hardly difficult to navigate the Auction House as it is.
Maybe some people have a difficult time with grade school math but dividing and multiplying by 10 is not hard to figure out. If this is being changed for simplicity, I think Turbine has missed the plot as now instead of dealing with one or two coins at a store we're going to have things listed in 3 coins more often.

I think the point you are overlooking with your examples is that for a large portion of the player base, any "cost" below 1 plat isn't even worth worrying about. I highly doubt too many people care whether something costs 80 plat and 32 gold or 80 plat and 12 gold. It does not affect their purchasing decision at all. Most players dont even pick up most of the coins dropped from barrels any more. Some do, but from my observation most just run on by.

If you look at the trade forums here, very, very, very few people ever use gold as the standard to discuss pricing. That's a free area where players could choose to say plat, gold, silver or copper. They choose Plat. They choose it because it's simpler. Turbine agrees.

salmag
06-11-2010, 12:38 PM
/signed

Keep the gold standard, please.

esoitl
06-11-2010, 12:46 PM
I think the point you are overlooking with your examples is that for a large portion of the player base, any "cost" below 1 plat isn't even worth worrying about. I highly doubt too many people care whether something costs 80 plat and 32 gold or 80 plat and 12 gold. It does not affect their purchasing decision at all. Most players dont even pick up most of the coins dropped from barrels any more. Some do, but from my observation most just run on by.

If you look at the trade forums here, very, very, very few people ever use gold as the standard to discuss pricing. That's a free area where players could choose to say plat, gold, silver or copper. They choose Plat. They choose it because it's simpler. Turbine agrees.

So just because people say 100 PP instead of 1000 GP Turbine needs to adjust every price in the game?
If everyone went on the trade forums and had a listing: WTS Large Scale 1000000 CP, is that a reason to change every price to use CP as a standard?

Absolutely not....


I highly doubt too many people care whether something costs 80 plat and 32 gold or 80 plat and 12 gold
It's not the price of the item I was commenting on, it's the way it's listed.
80 PP 32 GP would be listed as 83 PP 2 GP by the way, but that's another story... It's the fact that 832 GP is easier to read than 83 PP 2 GP.

Deathseeker
06-11-2010, 01:43 PM
So just because people say 100 PP instead of 1000 GP Turbine needs to adjust every price in the game?
If everyone went on the trade forums and had a listing: WTS Large Scale 1000000 CP, is that a reason to change every price to use CP as a standard?

Absolutely not....


It's not the price of the item I was commenting on, it's the way it's listed.
80 PP 32 GP would be listed as 83 PP 2 GP by the way, but that's another story... It's the fact that 832 GP is easier to read than 83 PP 2 GP.

Well, ya got me with your hypothetical. To be consistent, then yes I would agree. If you can find evidence of a forum in which a large sample of players, for years, left to their own choice, start choosing to refer to trades and such in terms of CP, then I will accept that as evidence that players prefer CP to PP.

But since of course you won't find that, and you will find a large sampling of players for years using PP as their preferred currency on the trade forums, then my actual example will trump your hypothetical, and is evidence that players prefer PP as the easiest currency.

esoitl
06-11-2010, 02:17 PM
Actually, quite easily, especially if you follow real-world historical examples.

More than just a few coin-based currencies minted coins that could be snapped, or readily cut, into equal-sized pieces, by minting them with scored or imprinted lines on one of the two faces. The reason this was done, is because "making change" could be cumbersome (or downright impossible) for those folks who didn't have ready access to an excess supply of coins which could be kept around expressly for the purpose of "making change."

The most oft-mentioned examples of this sort of coin, are "pieces of eight," which were actually coins minted with scoring on one face that divided the single coin into eight equal pieces, and also made it easier to simply snap the coin in half, or in quarters, or into eighths.

Try to use an example that actually fits...
If you go to a store with a 10$ bill ripped in half and cite your example, try as you might, you aren't getting 5$ for it.
D&D, DDO, and most countries today do not use halves so no, you cannot have half a gold coin in a system that doesn't support it....



Well, ya got me with your hypothetical. To be consistent, then yes I would agree. If you can find evidence of a forum in which a large sample of players, for years, left to their own choice, start choosing to refer to trades and such in terms of CP, then I will accept that as evidence that players prefer CP to PP.

But since of course you won't find that, and you will find a large sampling of players for years using PP as their preferred currency on the trade forums, then my actual example will trump your hypothetical, and is evidence that players prefer PP as the easiest currency.

Whatever... it's not getting through to you at all...
While PP may be used in trade forums, it's not used as a standard in game. Look at the auction house, look at base values of items, look at vendors.

Changing it all, and in most cases making it look awkward or not simplifying things, is hardly a reason to change the entire system just because people list it for trading purposes. If there was a justifiable reason behind the change, then you'd likely find full support for it, but there isn't and therefore you don't see full support.

Karrantine
06-11-2010, 03:52 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and /sign this because it seems to be one more example of DDO catering too much to people who are afraid of simple math, just like the die changes.

Rice
06-11-2010, 04:19 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and /sign this because it seems to be one more example of DDO catering too much to people who are afraid of simple math, just like the die changes.

If you think this is about dividing or multiplying by 10 to get your answer then you are completely wrong.

This change is to ONLY normalize the denomination so that we won't have half the population thinking in GP while the other half thinking in PP. It simply does not make sense as it is when you think about in game terms.

The die change is completely different and for another topic so I won't go into that, but it again has NOTHING to do with being afraid of "simple math." People who are afraid of simple math do not play computer games.

SisAmethyst
06-11-2010, 05:31 PM
Only remark I have is, that we have to adapt the description of several broker that still tell you that they only deal with weapons and armors between or above xxx gold pieces to be consistent again.

Cendaer
06-11-2010, 10:40 PM
Only remark I have is, that we have to adapt the description of several broker that still tell you that they only deal with weapons and armors between or above xxx gold pieces to be consistent again.

We already know that won't happen.

Sorry for the cynicism, but I highly doubt the devs actually thought all the way through this decision, and are simply knee-jerking, because it's not going to simplify anything. Because it's a knee-jerk, we'll still have NPC dialogues mentioning gold well into next year, possibly forever. Within the Delera's story-arc is another NPC that readily comes to mind.

Now, instead of newbies asking "how many plat is 800 gold?" they'll be asking "how many gold pieces are in 80 plat?"

Not to mention that now anywhere a price is listed, it won't be gold/silver/copper, it will be platinum/gold/silver/copper. Should make the auction house oh-so-much easier to read when the listings are filled with minimum bids... [insert eyeroll here]

ScatCats
06-13-2010, 08:05 PM
Gold is only the standard because no DM in their right mind would have player running about with the kind of cash we have in this game.

Excellent point. And, the weight of coins could be considered. At 50 coins to the pound (for copper, silver, gold and platinum coins per 4.0 rules), even the strongest players wouldn't be able to carry around ridiculous amounts of cash.

iamsamoth0
06-13-2010, 09:05 PM
The are too many points to multi-quote them all.
But one that does stand out is the one about having to adjust all the text references.
While I can see the argument for plat-speak. My initial reaction upon seeing the pic's posted off Lama, was a double take at the price. And I can completely understand the argument for the similarities in the two coin types, and the possibility for confusion(even if brief or minor).
And the point about GM's needing to be called(Why anyone would call for a GM to explain it?!? That's another thread topic) and I can completely (sadly) imagine that could happen.

/Signed stay with the real-y~ GP FTW!
In fact I also don't appreciate the Coin Lords intercepting my mail and auto converting my coins. It's my business and my game, if I wanna mail 3000 cp to my mule, SO BE IT.

krud
06-13-2010, 09:19 PM
Maybe the silver coins could be made much darker than the platinum coins. You could say all the silver became old and tarnished.

Claver
06-14-2010, 11:43 AM
Isn't it pretty obvious if something is plat or silver in every instance where it matters?

On your character sheet, obviously the one between copper and gold is silver, therfore the one on the end is plat. It is in the same order along the bottom of a trade screen (and even says pp, gp, sp, or cp next to these amounts).

My complaint is the tool tip inspection of an item in your inventory or in a chest. As you can see from the screen shots from Lamannia there is only a visual color indicator to represent the value of the item. If the coins were followed by the initials pp (platinum piece) or sp (silver piece) I don't think I would have posted a thread. As others have suggested, some extra visual change to make the currency more distinct such as a symbol on the coin or a change in the shape of the coin would help too.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4689341379_833a29f529_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4689975746_cedfd304a9_b.jpg

DoctorWhofan
06-14-2010, 11:46 AM
I saw it for the first time on Lam. last night...How utterly confusing!

Anthios888
06-14-2010, 11:53 AM
Glad they finally made this change. If you want to role play in gold or something, there's nothing to stop you. The rest of the game has operated in platinum since I was level 3, and it's about time the UI reflected that.

Drfirewater79
06-14-2010, 12:03 PM
1st off i cannot believe this has made it to 5 pages ... really

there is so much wrong with update 5 ... one of the few things that makes sense is the plat sync

ITS NOT THAT I DONT AGREE THAT GOLD IS THE STANDARD IN DnD PnP ... but in a video game having the second highest currency be the standard doesn't make any sense at all.

if you want GOLD to be the standard then Turbine really needs to eliminate paltinum from the game ... this way the highest currency is the standard ...

DO YOU REALLY WANT THEM TO ELIMINATE PLAT FROM THE GAME??????

that would be worse for the pnp comparison then making plat the new standard.

I understand the comment from the role playing perspective but financial perspective it only makes sense to go with highest common denominator ...

2nd

If people have issues understanding 100 gold is = 10 play your right .. .they prolly shouldnt be playing video games in stead they should be reading books and doing there math homework ...

the plat to gold to silver to copper system is not hard in DnD to figure out ...

that being said there is no reason i should have to do that much work ... no reason why i should beable to carry that much weight in gold ...

if i have 200k plat 200k gold 200k silver and 200k copper in my pockets then i how the hell do i carry my weapon let alone swing it and run at mobs (or away)

syncing plat makes alot of sense in this case too ....

gold standard is broken in this game cause no one thinks in gold .... and it makes AH confusing to the brain dead ... turbines biggest new customer list .....

while i dislike most of the changes in the new DDO update 5 .... dice made less sense then this one ....

especially since the dice roll on the freaking screen .....

all in all neither change breaks the game ... so dont expect it to be changed ....

dice is only getting changed cause the 1-6 versions arent accurate definitions in comparison to the dice rolls they represent for % numbers .....

since plat as the standard represents the total currency you have BETTER then gold standard its unlikely its ever gonna change ...

its one thing to fight against changes its another thing all together to fight against ones that make sense .... even if its making the game FEEL less PnP DnD.

krud
06-14-2010, 12:05 PM
My complaint is the tool tip inspection of an item in your inventory or in a chest. As you can see from the screen shots from Lamannia there is only a visual color indicator to represent the value of the item. If the coins were followed by the initials pp (platinum piece) or sp (silver piece) I don't think I would have posted a thread. As others have suggested, some extra visual change to make the currency more distinct such as a symbol on the coin or a change in the shape of the coin would help too.

yeah, even the darker silver doesn't help much.

btw- I still count everything in gp, since that's what everything is listed as in game. I don't care what everyone else does, everything is shown as gp in the game. Is it really harder to say/type 1mil gp vs 100k pp?

of course, the guy who listed the +5met/pg kukri on the AH for 200k gp buyout (instead of 200k plat?) probably thinks otherwise.

Doganpc
06-14-2010, 12:06 PM
As a fairly new player I find the switch rather untimely. I don't have millions of gold, let alone millions of plat. I still very much view things in terms of gold. While I understand its just a reference number and a shift of the reference point. It just reeks of change for the sake of change.

Did anyone complain about the gold standard until Lamannia switched? See, I ask because I wouldn't know haven't been around long enough.

Dogan
veteran consolation.

Drfirewater79
06-14-2010, 12:11 PM
As a fairly new player I find the switch rather untimely. I don't have millions of gold, let alone millions of plat. I still very much view things in terms of gold. While I understand its just a reference number and a shift of the reference point. It just reeks of change for the sake of change.

Did anyone complain about the gold standard until Lamannia switched? See, I ask because I wouldn't know haven't been around long enough.

Dogan
veteran consolation.

people have been using plat as the standard ever since people started getting more then 100k plat ... when you buy stuff on user forum markets its all plat and trade

this is the reason for the change ...

while at low levels you might not have more then 10k plat at one time ... at end game its no more then a couple hours to grind out a couple hundred plat ..

you can get 10-20k plat in one mission in aramath as a lvl 16-20

you can get 10-50k from a vale slayer run ...

shoot my ranger (because he didnt need to buy alot of pots and weapons) had over 150k plat by the time he was lvl 10 just from regular questing not even slayer runs.

Ashiel_Dragmire
06-14-2010, 12:12 PM
The change to 'plat standard' is an excellent one. Only newbs use gold.

I'm sorry about your color blindness but perhaps you need to ask for a change in the color of the plat coin instead.

Can't really change the color of the coin, since Platinum IRL is a silvery color.

Getting rid of Platinum and making Gold the standard would be fine, since platinum is supposed to really rare anyway...

Cyr
06-14-2010, 12:13 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind. Low value items and commodities are shown is Silver; high value items are shown in Platinum. Because of my color blindness, I can't tell the difference between the two. With a gold piece standard the magnitude value of items was obvious; 1000 gp was clearly larger than 1 gp. By comparison, 10 Plat = 100 gp and 9 Silver ~ 1g. In update 5, the color blind player will see 10 coins and 9 coins that look very similar but represent a big difference in the apparent value of the items. If that player is new to the game they might make a mistake. If they are a veteran like me, they will be annoyed that they have to slow down to be careful on the auction house.

(2) Gold Pieces are the standard currency of PNP D&D. We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

(3) I no longer feel rich. When you loot a sword worth 8,000 gp that feels like a reasonable haul; 800 pp just doesn't carry the same psychological satisfaction even though the value is equivalent.

Turbine, please consider reinstating gold pieces as the denomination for goods

1) I to am color blind. There are a few places in game where this really bugs me.

2) While GP is the standard in pnp it most certainly is not the standard used in DDO by the players. PP pricing in trades is the only thing I have ever used in my years of gameplay.

3) This same logic would indicate that everything should be listed in CP value. You could bath in all those copper pieces.

All in all this is a pretty weak argument for reverting this change. The color blind issue certainly should be addressed somehow though throughout the game.

Drfirewater79
06-14-2010, 12:22 PM
1) I to am color blind. There are a few places in game where this really bugs me.

2) While GP is the standard in pnp it most certainly is not the standard used in DDO by the players. PP pricing in trades is the only thing I have ever used in my years of gameplay.

3) This same logic would indicate that everything should be listed in CP value. You could bath in all those copper pieces.

All in all this is a pretty weak argument for reverting this change. The color blind issue certainly should be addressed somehow though throughout the game.

I have to agree .... as a colour blind player myself ...

i cannot do the puzzles in reaver ... i have to memorize rotations of coloured spinning puzzles in tangleroot and dragon and co6 ...

and i have never had an issue telling plat from silver especially since its placed in different sections .... and obvious that copper isnt the highest so the other greyish white thingy on the opposite side must be my plat.

and if anything the new changes make it even easier for colour blind players to tell how much money they have cause no other currency goes above 1000 anymore ... meaning it automatically gets converted to plat so you always know how much money you have in total.

Claver
06-14-2010, 12:37 PM
All in all this is a pretty weak argument for reverting this change. The color blind issue certainly should be addressed somehow though throughout the game.

You are right of course. I admit my initial reaction was emotionally influenced by frustration with the variety of changes being made in Update 5. I still feel some modification is needed to make platinum and silver visually more distinct. This thread has shown part of the community would appreciate a plat based economy. For my part, I'm now open to compromise and can live without the gold standard provided Turbine clears up the user interface by adding pp or sp after the visual icon of coins or in some other way makes the difference in coins more distinct (symbol on the coin, change in coin shape, etc.)

Phax
06-14-2010, 12:45 PM
I'll see if we can do something about making the silver/plat coin difference obvious.

J1NG
06-14-2010, 12:56 PM
I'll see if we can do something about making the silver/plat coin difference obvious.

Whoooo!!!!

Yay! Finally! :)

J1NG

ahpook
06-14-2010, 01:11 PM
if you want GOLD to be the standard then Turbine really needs to eliminate paltinum from the game ... this way the highest currency is the standard ...

This.


DO YOU REALLY WANT THEM TO ELIMINATE PLAT FROM THE GAME??????

yes.

The only reason for plat is weight management issues. Since Cash has no weight, plat serves no purpose. Just get rid of it.

You could go the way they have chosen but look what that causes: incorrect text talking about gold instead of plat needs to be updated and confusion between plat and silver. If the current model of having both gold and plat is truly a problem and worth wasting dev time to address, take the simple approach and drop plat. Not that I see a problem worth wasting any dev time to change it.

Deathseeker
06-14-2010, 01:26 PM
You are right of course. I admit my initial reaction was emotionally influenced by frustration with the variety of changes being made in Update 5. I still feel some modification is needed to make platinum and silver visually more distinct. This thread has shown part of the community would appreciate a plat based economy. For my part, I'm now open to compromise and can live without the gold standard provided Turbine clears up the user interface by adding pp or sp after the visual icon of coins or in some other way makes the difference in coins more distinct (symbol on the coin, change in coin shape, etc.)


I'll see if we can do something about making the silver/plat coin difference obvious.

Wow! Is this an actual example of someone posting a minor rant, then reading the feedback, then adjusting their position to one of compromise and reasonableness, and then being rewarded with a dev response aknowledging the core issue they have raised in the new compromise position?

+1 Claver for your excellent example of forumship! Well played, sir.

Solmage
06-14-2010, 01:29 PM
I'll see if we can do something about making the silver/plat coin difference obvious.

I can live with this. Long Live Plat err Phax! =)

Drfirewater79
06-14-2010, 01:37 PM
This.

yes.

The only reason for plat is weight management issues. Since Cash has no weight, plat serves no purpose. Just get rid of it.

You could go the way they have chosen but look what that causes: incorrect text talking about gold instead of plat needs to be updated and confusion between plat and silver. If the current model of having both gold and plat is truly a problem and worth wasting dev time to address, take the simple approach and drop plat. Not that I see a problem worth wasting any dev time to change it.

while i disagree at least your choice of implementation fits the MMO standard ...

plat is a weight issue in PnP .. but not in DDO ... plat is a currency in PnP just like it is in DDO ... also the problem with eliminating plat and going with a gold standard becomes capacity ...

right now turbine has stated a weird currency capacity and that changing the capacity to something higher cannot be done (this was said around the launch of mod 9 and free to play consideration).

That being said it could be the reason why plat is the standard ... cause they cannot raise the number higher then the plat value ...

and a change to gold would mean people would potentially lose plat which would be a big issue.. much bigger then simple misunderstanding of plat vs gold.

Sarr
06-14-2010, 01:39 PM
I'll see if we can do something about making the silver/plat coin difference obvious.
Maybe shape?

ahpook
06-14-2010, 01:43 PM
while i disagree at least your choice of implementation fits the MMO standard ...

plat is a weight issue in PnP .. but not in DDO ... plat is a currency in PnP just like it is in DDO ... also the problem with eliminating plat and going with a gold standard becomes capacity ...

right now turbine has stated a weird currency capacity and that changing the capacity to something higher cannot be done (this was said around the launch of mod 9 and free to play consideration).

That being said it could be the reason why plat is the standard ... cause they cannot raise the number higher then the plat value ...

and a change to gold would mean people would potentially lose plat which would be a big issue.. much bigger then simple misunderstanding of plat vs gold.

Actually, the capacity limit is a function of coppers. The current limit is the number of copper pieces that can be stored in a 32 bit integer. Dropping plat would have no effect. Dropping coppers on the other hand ....

J1NG
06-14-2010, 01:44 PM
Maybe the Coin Lords like the look of a miniscule Dragonshard on their Plat coins? So there's a splodge of colour in the middle of all plat coins? Purple? Orange? Blue?

J1NG

Zenako
06-14-2010, 01:44 PM
while i disagree at least your choice of implementation fits the MMO standard ...

plat is a weight issue in PnP .. but not in DDO ... plat is a currency in PnP just like it is in DDO ... also the problem with eliminating plat and going with a gold standard becomes capacity ...

right now turbine has stated a weird currency capacity and that changing the capacity to something higher cannot be done (this was said around the launch of mod 9 and free to play consideration).

That being said it could be the reason why plat is the standard ... cause they cannot raise the number higher then the plat value ...

and a change to gold would mean people would potentially lose plat which would be a big issue.. much bigger then simple misunderstanding of plat vs gold.

Actually the problem as stated some time back was that the money field and data storage was all in COPPER, and that affected and enforced the upper limit on PLAT since that was just 1000 times the number of COPPER coins. So that 98,000 GOLD weapon was actually being considered a 9,800,000 copper weapon.

dragonofsteel
06-14-2010, 02:28 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind. Low value items and commodities are shown is Silver; high value items are shown in Platinum. Because of my color blindness, I can't tell the difference between the two. With a gold piece standard the magnitude value of items was obvious; 1000 gp was clearly larger than 1 gp. By comparison, 10 Plat = 100 gp and 9 Silver ~ 1g. In update 5, the color blind player will see 10 coins and 9 coins that look very similar but represent a big difference in the apparent value of the items. If that player is new to the game they might make a mistake. If they are a veteran like me, they will be annoyed that they have to slow down to be careful on the auction house.

(2) Gold Pieces are the standard currency of PNP D&D. We are losing the d6 notation, we are losing Scrags who regenerate back from the dead if not killed by acid or fire, and now were are losing the gp currency. The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad. This is a small change but it furthers my estrangement from the game that I call D&D. I don't see the value of the trade off versus the loss in flavor from the source material and spirit of the game.

(3) I no longer feel rich. When you loot a sword worth 8,000 gp that feels like a reasonable haul; 800 pp just doesn't carry the same psychological satisfaction even though the value is equivalent.

Turbine, please consider reinstating gold pieces as the denomination for goods

The color blind part I can see, but the rest who cares. Sorry its not PNP it will never be PNP.. If think it feels anywere like PNP you or kidding yourself. Funny part I always counted my money by pp, if I did it by gold system it would be insanly rich feeling. (Over 20million gold on many toons :).) I do understand the sediment of, I really don't like change even though really does nothing to affect the game :).

iamsamoth0
06-14-2010, 02:47 PM
Considering how much it would cost to maintain the guys(airships) we may all be counting in coppers soon enough. And isn't that what the whole development is actually supposed to address, as to make all of this a moot point.
And for those who think it's just 'shifting' the currency, it will be a bunch of tedious work for whomever gets tasked with fixing all the little moles that pop-up from a base shift. I know I hate typing, I HATE it for whoever has to go and make all the text stuff that will need to be adjusted.

Sarr
06-14-2010, 03:05 PM
For me shorter numbers are better than longer ones. Easier to read, easier to remember, easier to calculate and smaller to store in the database (may not be the case in DDO though).

Rice
06-14-2010, 03:11 PM
Just put a little "p" on the platinum coin and a little "s" on the silver coin. And of course, a "g" on the gold and "c" on the copper.

Xeraphim
06-14-2010, 03:17 PM
Update 5 now shows the value of all items in Platinum. This is a problem for me for 3 reasons:

(1) I'm color blind.

So am I, but I never talk in Gold and it annoyes the living hell out of me that some folks do. Plat Standard has been a DDO Norm since early in the game, if not beta. Surely the Developers can make the coins a little different visually to fix your habit of glazing over it lazily.


(2) The slow erosion of the game of Dungeons and Dragons makes me sad.

This is merely another variant of Dungeons and Dragons. Next I'll hear you wanting to make Copper the standard coin and abolish Platinum entirely. I'd rather talk Dollars that Cents, and you stress that we talk Cents.


(3) I no longer feel rich. When you loot a sword worth 8,000 gp that feels like a reasonable haul; 800 pp just doesn't carry the same psychological satisfaction even though the value is equivalent.

So the artificial inflation of numbers makes you happy? It sincerely bothers me. I have to recalc expense every time I visit the auction due to the mindset that nobody will be paying 3 copper for a sword, but will instead be paying 300 platinum. No matter HOW you inflate the numbers, it is still the same price.

Turbine, please remove gold pieces as the denomination for goods

Red.

Claver
06-14-2010, 03:24 PM
I'll see if we can do something about making the silver/plat coin difference obvious.

Thank you...

And if it turns out that more resources would be needed than can be justified to make such changes I am still grateful to know that you listened to the community.

Drfirewater79
06-14-2010, 03:35 PM
For me shorter numbers are better than longer ones. Easier to read, easier to remember, easier to calculate and smaller to store in the database (may not be the case in DDO though).

i agree ... shorter numbers look clean and clear ... easy to see how much you have and easier to understand how much you have ....

....

again it would only make sense for gold if they eliminate plat ... and i think that would be sillier then what they are doing ...

again its silly that people care so much about this when there are much bigger topics to hate turbine over.

Lorz
06-14-2010, 03:38 PM
Actually the problem as stated some time back was that the money field and data storage was all in COPPER, and that affected and enforced the upper limit on PLAT since that was just 1000 times the number of COPPER coins. So that 98,000 GOLD weapon was actually being considered a 9,800,000 copper weapon.

Well then the solution is simple.

Remove copper from the game. And this will mean Silver being the new low end and something beyond Plat....
I propose Unubtainium.......but the point being is this would be a much better fit than anything else.
Especially since Copper is not used in game at ALL. (except in account and picking up barrel lot in korthos maybe)...but nothing is pretty much sold for copper at all.

So do away with it.

And give everybody 1000 silver for their copper being liquidated.

Than we will plenty of room for growth.

Nezichiend
06-14-2010, 11:46 PM
My guildy can't solo reaver.





He is colourblind.

DME543
06-15-2010, 12:08 PM
/Signed

danzig138
06-19-2010, 06:47 PM
I'll adapt to the change, but I heartily endorse changing it from a number and coin picture to number with letters (8 sp, 100 pp, 26,000 gp, etc). That's how I think of the money.

iamsamoth0
06-19-2010, 08:48 PM
Take the middle out, or color it with 'enamel'.
If it is more precious a donut shape makes some sense.