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Duncani_Daho
06-09-2010, 01:04 AM
One of The Core rules is that we match the character level with the quest. You take the highest level character in the party and if there is no xp penalty for running that quest, you're good to go. XP penalties occur when the highest level character in the party is 2 levels above the quest.

For the Core rules, there is an exception: if the quests are part of a series or chain, you take the finale to determine the max character level allowed.

For example, you want to run Splinterskull on hard. The first quest is a level 3 (4 on hard) and the finale is a level 7 on normal, 8 on hard. You can run that series with max level 9 characters because there is no xp running the finale with level 9 characters on hard.

That being said, we usually run Tangleroot with level 4-6 character and as you might guess, it's not very difficult even prohibiting the use the shrines like we do.

So with a little tredpidation, we decided to run The Jungles of Khyber, aka Von3. Since the Vault of Night is a chain culminating in the level 10 on normal, the max character level allowed for running any VON quest on hard is 12. Without shrining, we expected it to be brutal.

But we had just completed the Spawn of Whisperdoom on hard, the guild's 2nd successful run overall, and were up for the challenge and a guild first victory over the very long Von3.

Nazmarissa, level 12 (drow cleric)
Dygardo, level 11 (dorf fighter)
Rumblebellie, level 12 (dorf rogue/fighter)
Wulong, level 11 (halfling paladin/monk)
Moslizax, level 12 (elf warchanter/barbarian)
Osgona, level 11 (human arcane archer)

We simply crushed 95% of the quest, conserving mana and wand whipping after battles. We never shrined, spoiled, or soiled our shorts. But then with three songs left, Moslizax sang an Inspired Courage and Inspire Greatness, and we took out two more major enemies.

With 3.5 minutes left on the songs, Wulong suddenly disappeared! He was standing by a rock, grew very still and just stood there looking into space and not responding to repeated questions, and the next moment, poof! Gone.

But he appeared again 2 minutes later. There was a hurried debate. According to the quest objectives we had a nasty encounter ahead of us, with 30 seconds on the Greatness and Courage songs, and only 1 song in reserve.

With a split second to decide the course of action, Moslizax burst into RAGE, clenchd Carnifex, and dashed towards his foe. A furious battle ensued with 5 of us engaging the enemy.

Realizing the songs had dropped and the enemy still had strength, Moslizax called for a retreat to renew the song. But he was turned to stone! And then suddenly freed.

The foe pursued and entered the area where we were trying to regroup and rebuff. He killed Nazmarissa and Dygardo, and finally was destroyed by the surviving four.

Some of us had silver flame amulets, some didn't.

With four in the party remaining, we decided to confront the Marut and seal the deal! Viva la Core! Victory was ours.

But at what a horrible cost...

*Salute Nazmarissa and Dygardo. The survivors in your clan will have much to do if they want to surpass you.

To steal Ram's quote: "Permadeath, the most fun you'll have playing DDO."

come and get some hardcore,
Movan,
thecorehc.home.comcast.net

Doxmaster
06-09-2010, 01:11 AM
You guys have a branch on cannith?

Duncani_Daho
06-09-2010, 02:16 AM
We don't. We're Khyber exclusive. But we're on all the time over here, even though the guild is small. Veteran status builds are allowed, so if you want to get off to a fast start, come aboard!

Movan,
thecorehc.home.comcast.net

parvo
06-10-2010, 06:32 PM
Cheers! Sorry to hear of the losses.

In the three recent VoN attempts in Mortal Voyage, we lost I think seven or eight characters. We run characters no higher than quest level and most of our members do not have extensive pug experience, so it was quite a thrill. On all three attempts we got to VoN III. The first time, we had nothing in our arsenal for the end fight and it would have been just a hurried retreat if we knew what to expect. Unfortunately we were surprised and lost two or three great characters that go. The second time, we didn't get to the end. If you ask me, we were overconfident and too chatty, getting distracted. We lost five more outstanding adventurers that night. On the third attempt, we were well prepared and had decent equipment. We progressed to the final battle, were again surprised (they changed something) but would have prevailed had it not been for some ridiculous crits on our primary DPS. character. I've never seen hits quite like that. It's something else. Some great teamwork allowed soul stone retrieval and a narrow escape. The killed character was raised. A dissapointing loss, but still quite fun and memorable.

Glad to hear you got through it. It's a great challenge.

Duncani_Daho
06-10-2010, 07:43 PM
Thanks. Von3 used to be my favorite quest, and it still ranks up there on my all-time favorite list. I was quite surprised by some of the changes, and I must say all the bonus xp was an added sweetness.

Honestly, when I roll up a character I usually think, "What would this character do in Von2, Von3, and all those other brutal quests that permadeathers see as high risk?" Moslizax's role was clear: sing, rage and lead the melee's into battle. Since we went in with zero arcane power, our dps had to be supplied by force of arms. And we had plenty of that: a dorf kensai with the greatax (level 11), an arcane archer (level 11), and a halfling paladin/monk (level 11).

The real risk came from not all characters having the Silver Flame Amulet. Nothing to do in that situation but keep your fingers crossed and hope the dice are nice because strategy isn't going to play a huge part. Soon we'll be focusing intensely on the Necropolis so that everyone who wants it will get the Silver Flame Amulet. Next time we do Von3, we'll be a little better prepared.

Lastly, the pitfalls of relying on prior knowledge become apparent with minor changes. I hadn't been into Von3 for well over a year.

Duncani_Daho
06-10-2010, 07:57 PM
Cheers! Sorry to hear of the losses.

In the three recent VoN attempts in Mortal Voyage, we lost I think seven or eight characters. We run characters no higher than quest level and most of our members do not have extensive pug experience, so it was quite a thrill. On all three attempts we got to VoN III. The first time, we had nothing in our arsenal for the end fight and it would have been just a hurried retreat if we knew what to expect. Unfortunately we were surprised and lost two or three great characters that go. The second time, we didn't get to the end. If you ask me, we were overconfident and too chatty, getting distracted. We lost five more outstanding adventurers that night. On the third attempt, we were well prepared and had decent equipment. We progressed to the final battle, were again surprised (they changed something) but would have prevailed had it not been for some ridiculous crits on our primary DPS. character. I've never seen hits quite like that. It's something else. Some great teamwork allowed soul stone retrieval and a narrow escape. The killed character was raised. A dissapointing loss, but still quite fun and memorable.

Glad to hear you got through it. It's a great challenge.

By the way, does MV consider the Vault of Night to be a chain/series like the Necropolis quests? In that case, the max level for MV characters running the Tomb of the Crimson Heart is level 7 on hard, because the finale is The Bloody Crypt, a level 6 on normal, level 7 on hard. Or is Von3 considered a stand-alone quest? Which would mean the max level is 10 on hard?

parvo
06-11-2010, 07:00 AM
By the way, does MV consider the Vault of Night to be a chain/series like the Necropolis quests? In that case, the max level for MV characters running the Tomb of the Crimson Heart is level 7 on hard, because the finale is The Bloody Crypt, a level 6 on normal, level 7 on hard. Or is Von3 considered a stand-alone quest? Which would mean the max level is 10 on hard?

Because it was back in Jan/Feb timeframe I had to look this up. We ran with max character level ten not eleven. I lost Kepto 9/1 Cleric/Ranger and Lepto 4/3/3 Ranger/Monk/Paladin.
http://www.mortalvoyage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1450

When we rate a series, we use the highest level quest in a series that we intend to complete in succession. So if we're just knocking out one of the heart tombs on hard by itself, we go max character level six (base 5+1 hard). If we intend to complete the whole series without other quests in between, we could go with max level seven (bloody being base 6+1 hard = 7). So in the case of VoN, we didn't intend to complete the raid (at least not in succession) so we rated it as base 9+1hard = 10.

It is a great series and we'll go back again soon. For now, the characters who survived those attempts have either leveled past it or perished in other quests, so a new group will have to come along.

I think what these attempts highlight is how quest level selection helps keep the pressure on. It gets pretty tough, just the way it should be.

Duncani_Daho
06-12-2010, 06:48 AM
Because it was back in Jan/Feb timeframe I had to look this up. We ran with max character level ten not eleven. I lost Kepto 9/1 Cleric/Ranger and Lepto 4/3/3 Ranger/Monk/Paladin.
http://www.mortalvoyage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1450

When we rate a series, we use the highest level quest in a series that we intend to complete in succession. So if we're just knocking out one of the heart tombs on hard by itself, we go max character level six (base 5+1 hard). If we intend to complete the whole series without other quests in between, we could go with max level seven (bloody being base 6+1 hard = 7). So in the case of VoN, we didn't intend to complete the raid (at least not in succession) so we rated it as base 9+1hard = 10.

It is a great series and we'll go back again soon. For now, the characters who survived those attempts have either leveled past it or perished in other quests, so a new group will have to come along.

I think what these attempts highlight is how quest level selection helps keep the pressure on. It gets pretty tough, just the way it should be.

I agree. Playing "just for fun" is everyone's right and I withhold all judgment for someone who wants to level a toon up fast by repeating the Shadow Crypt 8 times in two hours. That's what puggers do and they have every right.

At the end of the road, they might point to a level 20 character solo'ing Bastions of Power on elite, but such accomplishments are not for me. Restricting quest repetition is one of the standards of challenging pd play.

So I agree with Parvo. Any talk of real achievement, at least in permadeath play, should include mention of a quest-level restriction for those characters. If you're at all motivated by achievement and want to do something in permadeath that no one (or very few) has done, there must be some obstruction that forbids characters much higher level than a quest from entering it and completing it for xp.

The Core is a small guild and we don't often have enough players to fill a party for The Shadow King, much less parties who can commit the 4-5 hours it would take to keep everyone together for the 2nd Necropolis series. So we can't go by intention. Done for the sake of convenience, the no-xp penalty rule (with exceptions for quest chains) has served us well.

We are at the point now that I have been truly looking forward to. With a handful of level 12-13 characters, we are going for some guild-firsts that no doubt will be nail-biters: The Enemy Within on hard (max level 13); Invaders (max level 13); and maybe Dreams of Insanity (max level 13).

Iambeastx
06-12-2010, 07:02 AM
Soon we'll be focusing intensely on the Necropolis so that everyone who wants it will get the Silver Flame Amulet.

With reference to this, do perma death allow bypassing chains to enter specific, like shadow crypt, in order to make these needed items or is following the chain a must do?
In other words will you be doing 2 runs of shadow to add two upgrades to the talisman or will necro1 and necro2 have to be fully completed to do this.

Duncani_Daho
06-12-2010, 04:44 PM
With reference to this, do perma death allow bypassing chains to enter specific, like shadow crypt, in order to make these needed items or is following the chain a must do?
In other words will you be doing 2 runs of shadow to add two upgrades to the talisman or will necro1 and necro2 have to be fully completed to do this.

As long as someone in the guild can open the quest, and the characters running that quest together are within the quest-level rule and within 3 levels of each other, they can run that quest.

To open the shadow crypt means someone has to have run the Shadow Knight, Shadow Lord, Shadow Guard, and Shadow King. We've done it probably 4 times on hard in The Core. We've never run the entire 2nd Necropolis series in succession though. It hasn't been possible to keep a full, balanced party together for that long. Usually people have other pug toons on Argo, or characters in another guild on Argo, and real life interferes.

So yeah, if you want the Silver Flame Talisman, you must have someone in the guild open the Blood Crypt and then the Shadow Crypt. That means at least one character has run every preceding quest and can open both.

~Zornochio
06-12-2010, 05:05 PM
*Yipe*

If Glockenspiel ends up being the only high-level healer in the guild we are so screwed :)

Duncani_Daho
06-14-2010, 11:12 PM
*Yipe*

If Glockenspiel ends up being the only high-level healer in the guild we are so screwed :)

Hey, Vevalah is level 14!

Besides, we just bring Glock along for the occasional rage freak-out and the Wand of Eternal Cure Minor Wounds :) Don't worry, he won't have to harness his inner barbarian. We have a fresh crop of healers up-and-coming:

Mochoko, level 9 and closing fast on 10, favored soul.

Movengel, strength and charisma based favored soul, just turned level 9.

Holysun, level 8 favored soul.

Nazzario, level 10 favored soul.

Vserenah, level 11 favored soul.

Elnuc, level 8 cleric.

Duncani_Daho
06-14-2010, 11:22 PM
How could I forget Lildaubie!?! Level 10 dorf fighter/cleric.