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View Full Version : Request change to Pale Master forms



sephiroth1084
06-05-2010, 01:18 PM
...for either the forms to act as stances without a finite duration, or for Wraith and Lich to have their cooldowns function independently of the other.

Even with the new negative energy spells, playing a PM is going to be difficult, as they will not have the support of anyone else being able to heal them, and will be paying quite heavily for that "bonus" (4 feats, and a chunk of APs). The least that could be done would be to make it possible to actually plan around the ability to be in undead form.

As it currently stands, PMs run the risk of being without healing essentially for 2 minutes out of every 5, meaning that any primary healers in the group are forced to either ignore the wizard completely (likely resulting in the wizard dying) or to accommodate the wizard's decision of taking PM by keeping on top of when the wizard is and is not in undead form. Pale Masters would be the only class/PrE character required to carry around multiple stacks of different types of healing items (Cure Serious and Inflict Serious Wounds potions).

Warforged wizards gain self-healing 24/7 essentially for the cost of 1 point to their spell DCs (and that's not even the entire situation) and with much stronger self-healing than PMs have (Reconstruct, Mass Repair X spells >>>>> negative energy stuff). Would it be so overpowered to allow wizards to either remain in one form all the time, or force wizards to pick up both and alternate between the two if they wanted to be able to self-heal all the time?

Arovin
06-05-2010, 01:58 PM
Agreed that the long cool down and the shared timer make PM the most cumbersome PRE to play.

I would be happy if an attempt was made to fix this.

Xyfiel
06-05-2010, 02:05 PM
Or add it in to tier III, or add an enhancement for longer duration, something...

sephiroth1084
06-05-2010, 02:07 PM
Or add it in to tier III, or add an enhancement for longer duration, something...
Anything to make it easier to plan around.

Wizard_Zero
06-05-2010, 02:24 PM
I can kind of understand arguments for the current setup and the proposed changes you made. I would love to be in those forms all the time, it would make picking a fleshy over a WF a lot easier (I hate WF looks, they look ugly, which is the reason why I never pick them, even though they are 10x more superior than a fleshy with their self-repair.)

The infinite PM does give you a lot of special attributes, and would pretty much negate the need to be a WF for self-healing. I'm looking at these forms more a solo type deal. It's kind of like Rage for a melee, you get a short time to be super buffed... of course you can cast rage over and over. If there was no time limit, I think every caster would be in these forms all the time, I know I would.

Your right about healers though, being a healer, I don't have time to remember when you are in or not in your form. All I see is HP going down in those little bars, and pushing the heal button. After two or three tries, Ill realize you are in your form and stop. Of course I would have already spent SP trying to heal you. It would also be a pain to type out/say each time you are in/out of your forms.

I like your suggestions, but I don't see them happening, but we can hope. What ever happens, I'm just happy PM can heal themselves.

sephiroth1084
06-05-2010, 02:41 PM
Yes, having +4 Con and +2 Int, Wis and Cha all the time may be a bit much (maybe), which is why I made the alternate suggestion of having wraith and lich form on separate cooldowns. Wraith form offers very little benefit for most questing, so it would be a definite step down from being in lich form, but would allow you to plan on having Deathward, +100% Fort and the ability to self-heal consistently, instead of the case now, where the Deathward is redundant in every instance except vs. beholders (and then the Silver Flame Talisman pretty much covers those situations), the extra fortification is either redundant or doesn't last long enough to offset the (overly) steep penalty on the Yugo Int potions, and the self-healing still ends up being something of a trap, since you'd still need to plan for not being in the form and there is the problem with healing from party members.

The only thing wraith form adds over those basic properties, which PMs should have available all the time if they so desire, is the extra 20% miss chance, which is nice, but not so strong that it should bar us from having it up when we're not in lich form.


Looking at the forms in the reverse order, it would be really nice to be able to sneak through a quest and then activate lich form for the boss fight without having sit around with your thumb up your ass for 2 minutes waiting for the cooldown to expire.

Therilith
06-05-2010, 03:50 PM
Can't comment on potential balance issues, but it would make them much more fun to play (IMO).

Angelus_dead
06-05-2010, 06:57 PM
Probably they should just set cooldown=duration for both undead forms. If that causes the negative aura spell to be overpowered, then that specific spell can be nerfed.

Also the undead forms should not prevent or clear Deathward- the Deathward buff should be changed to allow helpful effects through, just like Spell Resistance blocks Slow but not Haste. And being undead should be reflected in your hitpoint bar on the party list, so that it takes less effort for clerics to keep track.

sephiroth1084
06-05-2010, 07:34 PM
Probably they should just set cooldown=duration for both undead forms. If that causes the negative aura spell to be overpowered, then that specific spell can be nerfed.

Also the undead forms should not prevent or clear Deathward- the Deathward buff should be changed to allow helpful effects through, just like Spell Resistance blocks Slow but not Haste. And being undead should be reflected in your hitpoint bar on the party list, so that it takes less effort for clerics to keep track.
"You must spread around-yada, yada..."

nicro
06-05-2010, 07:40 PM
I'm still surprised the forms weren't designed similar to the monk's stances. Make each a toggle and be done with it.