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View Full Version : Weighted weapon proc chance & saves



moorewr
06-05-2010, 09:56 AM
I understand the introduction of a save v. the stunning effect of weighted weapons. Although 3rd edition is full of no-save conditions which are arguably bad game design (vorpal, anyone?), I don't have a problem with this idea.

What I do disagree with is combining the change to a save with a drastic drop in the activation of the effect. My 5% weighted dropped to 3% with DC 33, AND if I use it off hand, it gets less activation rolls than it used to.

The effect: I toured the vale using a weighted off-hand weapon and never saw a stunned mob out of 150+ engaged. That is TOO low. It will mean that there is no reason to use them at all except when activating stunning .

Suggestion: combine the change to a save with a small [B]increase in proc rate. I suggest +2% over the original proc rate, so 1% weighted becomes 3%, 5% becomes 7%, etc.

Stanley_Nicholas
06-05-2010, 11:14 AM
I suggest that since the weighted change severely gimps any melee with a lower strength in epic content, and practically forces feat starved classes like paladins and tempest rangers to drop something extremely useful for stunning blow, something additional should be done to help those builds out if they insist on pushing the weighted nerf through. Maybe allow dex to be used in place of strength for determining the stun DC if you have weapon finesse. Maybe dial back on how badly weighted gets nerfed. But something needs to be done so that fighters and barbs aren't the only really viable melee for epic content.

As it stands, the change just swaps the need for weighted weapons in epic for the need for stunning blow + weighted weapons in epic, and excludes many builds from applying who could at least contribute before.

shadosatblackphoenix
06-05-2010, 11:18 AM
Monks can stun too :) And the DC is so low, that even if it was 3, 5, 10% its useless, so stunning fist/blow is unfortunately the only viable use for weighted stuff anymore.

However, keep in mind that now, in Epic, DCs were lowered across the board, but HP was not. So making things Auto-Crit becomes a primary responsability of arcanes. Melees shouldn't worrie too much about it (aside monks, IMO) unless they have nothing better to do. I rather the barb sticks to his strongest weapon than switch to a weighted when an arcane or a monk can do the stunning, personally.

Stanley_Nicholas
06-05-2010, 11:24 AM
Monks can stun too :) And the DC is so low, that even if it was 3, 5, 10% its useless, so stunning fist/blow is unfortunately the only viable use for weighted stuff anymore.

However, keep in mind that now, in Epic, DCs were lowered across the board, but HP was not. So making things Auto-Crit becomes a primary responsability of arcanes. Melees shouldn't worrie too much about it (aside monks, IMO) unless they have nothing better to do. I rather the barb sticks to his strongest weapon than switch to a weighted when an arcane or a monk can do the stunning, personally.

Although I don't play an arcane, I have of course run with many of them. I don't think it is fair to put that requirement on them and expect them to spend even more sp than before. It's not like they are finishing epic runs with half their sp remaining right now...

Xeraphim
06-05-2010, 06:39 PM
Although I don't play an arcane, I have of course run with many of them. I don't think it is fair to put that requirement on them and expect them to spend even more sp than before. It's not like they are finishing epic runs with half their sp remaining right now...

Epic seems to be a target for Turbine Store SP Potions, even live. If the balance shifts from Weighted like this to Arcane spells like Hold and Flesh to Stone, an Arcane will use more spellpoints via TP Potions than he enters the instance with and has from shrines. It will then be even harder to find casters wanting to do Epic.

Of course, they could always just bring scrolls of Enervation and Energy Drain into the instance en masse to mitigate SP usage.

Stanley_Nicholas
06-05-2010, 06:59 PM
Epic seems to be a target for Turbine Store SP Potions, even live. If the balance shifts from Weighted like this to Arcane spells like Hold and Flesh to Stone, an Arcane will use more spellpoints via TP Potions than he enters the instance with and has from shrines. It will then be even harder to find casters wanting to do Epic.

Of course, they could always just bring scrolls of Enervation and Energy Drain into the instance en masse to mitigate SP usage.

You can only buy enervation scrolls from a vendor, not energy drain. You won't find enough scrolls in chests to cover all your epic needs. And since epic mobs regenerate neg levels very quickly, enervate scrolls are hardly a viable option.

I'm not totally convinced anymore that it's all about increasing SP pot sales since they did decide not to nerf the bauble and SS ring, though that still may be a factor. I think it's more a case of the devs wanting to make it so weighted wasn't THE way to go for everybody in epic since it is a bit silly, but didn't foresee all the far-reaching and disproportionate consequences this nerf would have on many classes who actually had to rely on weighted to achieve some semblance of usefulness and balance.

I'm hoping that's the case rather than just greed for pot sales and that they are now looking into addressing the issues before this goes live, but unfortunately there has been no response at all on the subject yet. Any devs care to comment? :)