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View Full Version : Will we ever get Air/Earth/Fire/Cold Savants?



Jonandu
06-01-2010, 10:14 PM
Been waiting for ever....

Hobgoblin
06-01-2010, 10:17 PM
soon

Spisey
06-01-2010, 10:23 PM
soon

http://coromandal.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/trademark.jpg

vVAnjilaVv
06-01-2010, 10:24 PM
Eventually, I would think that this is the prestige enhancements coming for Sorcs....I think right now they are more concerned with classes who need "love" :p

Sorcs are still amazingly powerful even without a prestige line.

vVAnjilaVv
06-01-2010, 10:24 PM
http://coromandal.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/trademark.jpg

ewwww...trademark thingy :)

shagath
06-02-2010, 01:49 AM
Sorcs are still amazingly powerful even without a prestige line.Not so powerful in epic..

vVAnjilaVv
06-02-2010, 04:22 AM
Not so powerful in epic..

I really don't even include epic in my consideration tho I am sure many do.

IMO this game is pretty much over once you hit the Amarath quests...excluding the ToD raid unless you're a hardcore powergamer or have A LOT of patience and can be ok with the fact that if ur anything less than that it could take a very long time to get what you want from ToD and EPIC.

I just absolutely will not pigeonhole my build choices to be able to do epic.....or the ToD raid until they want to be a little more reasonable about obtaining boot ingredients.

Swedishchef
06-02-2010, 04:48 AM
Not so powerful in epic..

I run epic fine with my WF sorc and with zero mana pot consumation.

shagath
06-02-2010, 05:24 AM
I run epic fine with my WF sorc and with zero mana pot consumation.So you do nuking there? Anyhow I would love get these prestiges. :)

Arctigis
06-02-2010, 08:01 AM
Sounds like they are too busy ****ing around with 'other stuff' than fixing real bugs or adding stuff to the
game that people actually want. :)

tinyelvis
06-02-2010, 08:03 AM
I can solo some epics without the need for mana pots. But so what? If the rest of the game involved dropping a persistent spell, then running around in a circle for 10 minutes, I don't think anyone would still be playing.

That's what it is to be an offensive caster in epic play (my wrist actually fell asleep last night during a VON run).

shagath
06-02-2010, 08:23 AM
I can solo some epics without the need for mana pots. But so what? If the rest of the game involved dropping a persistent spell, then running around in a circle for 10 minutes, I don't think anyone would still be playing.This is exactly what I meant. It's not my idea of a powerful sorcerer either. :)

sirgog
06-02-2010, 08:44 AM
I can solo some epics without the need for mana pots. But so what? If the rest of the game involved dropping a persistent spell, then running around in a circle for 10 minutes, I don't think anyone would still be playing.

That's what it is to be an offensive caster in epic play (my wrist actually fell asleep last night during a VON run).

That might be the strategy to solo, but a good caster in Epics casts quite a variety of spells.

Firewall, Mass Hold Monster, Waves of Exhaustion, Web, Mass Suggestion - all have their place in Epics (as well as the usual buffs)

Compare to the Shroud, where an optimally played caster uses Wail of the Banshee, Polar Ray and seldom casts anything else except when manadumping.

ddoer
06-02-2010, 08:52 AM
Not so powerful in epic..


I can solo some epics without the need for mana pots. But so what? If the rest of the game involved dropping a persistent spell, then running around in a circle for 10 minutes, I don't think anyone would still be playing.

That's what it is to be an offensive caster in epic play (my wrist actually fell asleep last night during a VON run).


I consider a sorc is the second most powerful class for most epic contents (except von6) behind any epic sos barb/fighter. Most melee cannot solo epic quests, and in normal parties, they take too much damage if there is no caster to grab aggro first.

epic emphasis on dps and no save CC that make most of the spells not useful. if you compare against wiz, sorc capstone gives a huge advantage over wiz in DPS.

Zeruell
06-02-2010, 09:49 AM
I run epic fine with my WF sorc and with zero mana pot consumation.

Wait...so do you drink your mnemonic enhancement potions, or do unspeakable things to them?

To OP, Sorcerers always struck me as the class most likely to be last in line for prestige enhancements -- not totally sure why. They seem to get by though, in the meantime.

Swedishchef
06-02-2010, 09:59 AM
wait...so Do You Drink Your Mnemonic Enhancement Potions, Or Do Unspeakable Things To Them?

Ah

tinyelvis
06-02-2010, 05:40 PM
That might be the strategy to solo, but a good caster in Epics casts quite a variety of spells.

Firewall, Mass Hold Monster, Waves of Exhaustion, Web, Mass Suggestion - all have their place in Epics (as well as the usual buffs)

Compare to the Shroud, where an optimally played caster uses Wail of the Banshee, Polar Ray and seldom casts anything else except when manadumping.

These can be true comments, however, notice I wrote offensive caster. If you constrained yourself to this then even by your own statement, you are looking at only firewall. There is nothing wrong with being a good support guy, however, it was not until epic play that this role was forced on sorcerers as the only option to playing ring around the FW.


if you compare against wiz, sorc capstone gives a huge advantage over wiz in DPS.

You really cant make a blanket statement like this without qualifying it. If you look at a spell like DBF, a wizard will put out at least 10% more damage and in some cases much much more against high DC targets. While if you look at a spell like polar ray, then a sorcerer will put out about 10%/0% more damage which approaches infinitely more.

However, in epic play, the +1 DC makes a bigger difference than the sorcerer effective damage boost of roughly 10%. The former can land his holds and glitter dusts just a little better, while even a boost of damage of 100% for the sorcerer would still be small compared to ridiculously high hitpoints of mobs. 10% boost is laughable. Even a spell like firewall does not see that much accumulated damage associated with a mere 10% increase.

The sorcerer capstone is lame in my opinion.

ddoer
06-02-2010, 07:04 PM
You really cant make a blanket statement like this without qualifying it. If you look at a spell like DBF, a wizard will put out at least 10% more damage and in some cases much much more against high DC targets. While if you look at a spell like polar ray, then a sorcerer will put out about 10%/0% more damage which approaches infinitely more.

However, in epic play, the +1 DC makes a bigger difference than the sorcerer effective damage boost of roughly 10%. The former can land his holds and glitter dusts just a little better, while even a boost of damage of 100% for the sorcerer would still be small compared to ridiculously high hitpoints of mobs. 10% boost is laughable. Even a spell like firewall does not see that much accumulated damage associated with a mere 10% increase.

The sorcerer capstone is lame in my opinion.

I don't know how you play epic. On almost every epic quests, firewall is the most useful spell and that +20% damage is a huge difference to me. I do DBF or another other DC based damage spells for some end fights, such as von2, oob, dq, but any extra damage are just not big deal as the end fight is more a team work and caster dps is simply low in compare to melee anyway.

not saying DC is useless, but DC-based spell are less important. if you run with pug that can't use any tactic nor melee will do stunning, mass hold monster may be critical, but i doubt if you will have enough mana to keep casting it. other than that, mass hold monster is just a bonus to the part. if you don't use mass hold, you could just cast a fw to grab aggro, then jump to a save spot and let the melee to stun and beat down the mobs one by one. this will get the job done without costing too much mana. if you land a mass hold, you may help the party to kill the mobs with 30s less.

btw, with the update 5 changes that give -10 saving to all epic mobs, every caster could land their mass hold monster and DC doesn't matter anymore.

indeed, wiz +2 Int capstone equalize the +2 cha yugo pots of sorc so I don't really see any DC adv for wiz. All +7 int item for wiz is quarter staff, but there are ring and cloak for +7 Cha, that give sorc advantage in the primary stats and thus DC.

The most useful feature of wiz capstone is the metamagic mana reduction. Take my cap'd wiz as an example, she has 2200 mana, each max+emp+ext+quicken fw costs 50 mana with the capstone, i.e. 44 fw. without the capstone, each fw will cost 54, and she'll be able to cast 40 fw only, so it is a 10% increase in overall damage or 200 SP. an increase in DPS is way more useful than an increase is overall damage (that could easily be increased by using mana pots)

Merlocke
06-02-2010, 10:23 PM
Been waiting for ever....


Sounds like they are too busy ****ing around with 'other stuff' than fixing real bugs or adding stuff to the
game that people actually want. :)

shhh
(with the way they are nerfing atm it might be best not to draw attention to ourselves):D

Rice
06-02-2010, 10:28 PM
shhh
(with the way they are nerfing atm it might be best not to draw attention to ourselves):D

Meh, if nerfing wall of fire means buffing all the other damage spells to the point of usefulness, I'm all for it.

tinyelvis
06-03-2010, 05:36 AM
I don't know how you play epic. On almost every epic quests, firewall is the most useful spell and that +20% damage is a huge difference to me. I do DBF or another other DC based damage spells for some end fights, such as von2, oob, dq, but any extra damage are just not big deal as the end fight is more a team work and caster dps is simply low in compare to melee anyway.

not saying DC is useless, but DC-based spell are less important. if you run with pug that can't use any tactic nor melee will do stunning, mass hold monster may be critical, but i doubt if you will have enough mana to keep casting it. other than that, mass hold monster is just a bonus to the part. if you don't use mass hold, you could just cast a fw to grab aggro, then jump to a save spot and let the melee to stun and beat down the mobs one by one. this will get the job done without costing too much mana. if you land a mass hold, you may help the party to kill the mobs with 30s less.

btw, with the update 5 changes that give -10 saving to all epic mobs, every caster could land their mass hold monster and DC doesn't matter anymore.

indeed, wiz +2 Int capstone equalize the +2 cha yugo pots of sorc so I don't really see any DC adv for wiz. All +7 int item for wiz is quarter staff, but there are ring and cloak for +7 Cha, that give sorc advantage in the primary stats and thus DC.

The most useful feature of wiz capstone is the metamagic mana reduction. Take my cap'd wiz as an example, she has 2200 mana, each max+emp+ext+quicken fw costs 50 mana with the capstone, i.e. 44 fw. without the capstone, each fw will cost 54, and she'll be able to cast 40 fw only, so it is a 10% increase in overall damage or 200 SP. an increase in DPS is way more useful than an increase is overall damage (that could easily be increased by using mana pots)

First off, if you see anywhere close to a 20% increase in your wall of fire damage in epic play due to the capstone, then your spell is seriously under buffed. You may want to check to insure that you,

1. Use an inferno clicky
2. Have maxed your enhancements
3. Are maximizing and Empowering

If you do these things then you will only see closer to a 9% increase in damage. Look here for why http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=248390 .

Second, you comments concerning spell DC's are very good. However, when you consider only firewall and a few DC spells are really important in epic play, I think a player can get away with carrying a staff and still be fully effective. However, as you pointed out meta magic cost buff is the nice aspect of the wiz capstone. And because of this, compared to a wizard, the actual effective damage increase a sorcerer sees can be a lot lower than 9%.

Let's investigate:
Assume that both the sorcerer and the wizard have spec'd heavily for wall of fire use (meaning good loot and great enhancements). The cost to lay a WoF could easily be 52 points for the sorcerer and 49 points with the great capstone for the wizard. And do 2180 pts and 2000 pts total damage for respectively the sorcerer and wizard. Lets say 2500 spell points are spent on firewalls then,

Sorcerer 48 casts @ 52 per cast for 2496 spell points spent and total damage = 104640

Wizard 51 casts @ 49 per cast for 2499 spell points spent and total damage = 102000

The actual effective increase in damage output the sorcerer really sees with his lame capstone compared to the wizard is

104640 - 102000 = 2640 pts (this is relatively small and pretty much inconsequential in epic play)

Therefore the effective percent increase is really only

2640 / 102000 = 2.5%

For that 2.5% effective increase over a wizard, sorcerers miss out also on the +2 bonus to main stat and the increase to DC and skills that comes with it. I really don't see how you can claim the sorcerer capstone is not lame compared to the wizard (much less think that 2.5% in epic play is huge but rather much much closer to lame).

The developers had to know that the sorcerer capstone really did not give a 20% increase to damage. Certainly they studied the issue. So why did they write the description that way. I just don't believe they are that foolish. The rather lame 9% effective bonus just barely beats out the effective bonus a wizard sees with their capstone and they get many other benefits too. I think its sad that they can get away with this sort of fraud. Imagine Ford motor company selling you a car and claiming it gets 30 miles to the gallon only to find when you get home that it really gets only 15 mpg. There are many more such occurrences of misleading descriptions compared to the low performing effective behavior on other aspects of the game wrt sorcerers.

I guess the old adage is true, " There's a sorcerer born every minute". Or "If your in a room full of player characters and you don't know who the sucker is,...it must be the sorcerer."

epochofcrepuscule
06-03-2010, 05:51 AM
I dont see why you care about the prestige enhancements.

bugs at release that we will whine about on lamannia but will never be fixed.

1. Does not stack
2. Effects do not match up to clickable items


Something like that im sure, in fact - ill bet on it.

Carpone
06-03-2010, 01:42 PM
There is nothing wrong with being a good support guy, however, it was not until epic play that this role was forced on sorcerers as the only option to playing ring around the FW.
This. Even with reduced epic mob saves in update 5, HP scaling is still an issue.