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Jadagrail
05-31-2010, 09:34 AM
Some things I'm curious about that I can't seem to find answers to via the wiki or searching here (perhaps due to lack of searching prowess on my part):

In regards to enhancements that add attributes, is it safe to assume that those added stats will not count towards prerequisites for feats such as two weapon fighting or minimum ability scores for casting spells? (I figure this because enhancements can be reset, and therefore it would mean someone could boost their stats via enhancements, take a feat, and then reset their enhancements, so most likely the developers would have seen this ahead of time.)

While on the topic of attributes, are there bonus "spell slots" for having a high value in the appropriate stat. (ie: Would a wizard gain extra spell slots for high intelligence, or a sorcerer for charisma, etc.)

And... while speaking of spell slots, if one were to multi-class with cleric/paladin/favored soul, which all appear to draw from the same spell pool, is it safe to assume that even though they're using the same spells, their respective caster levels won't add together in regards to spell slot level? So a level 20 character with wizard 10 and sorcerer 10 wouldn't be able to cast 9th level spells, but rather 1st to 5th level wizard spells and 1st to 5th level sorcerer spells.

Also, enhancements: If a character multi-classes, will they be able to choose enhancements from both class lists? If so, is it limited to how many levels are taken in each class? (Would a level 2 character 1 cleric/3 paladin only be able to spend 12 points in their paladin enhancements, and be required to spend 4 points on cleric enhancements? Or saying the same thing, would that same character not be able to put all 16 points into cleric enhancements?)

Similarly, assuming one can use enhancements from either class, if someone were to be a human cleric/paladin/favored soul, would he be able to take all of the healing spell bonus enhancements, or would taking one knock out the others? I'd assume, if anything, the human and one of the class enhancements would stack, but taking the enhancement in one class removes the enhancements for the other two. Still, it would be kind of fun to cast mass heal and heal 562 per person. (40% per class, and 30% for human, adds 150%, as well as a 150% modifier for the empower heal feat would bring it up to a x3.75 modifier.)

Thanks ahead of time to anyone who can shed some wisdom.

Lorien_the_First_One
05-31-2010, 09:43 AM
In regards to enhancements that add attributes, is it safe to assume that those added stats will not count towards prerequisites for feats such as two weapon fighting or minimum ability scores for casting spells? correct

While on the topic of attributes, are there bonus "spell slots" for having a high value in the appropriate stat. No. You get bonus SP based on your high stat score though

And... while speaking of spell slots, if one were to multi-class with cleric/paladin/favored soul, which all appear to draw from the same spell pool, is it safe to assume that even though they're using the same spells, their respective caster levels won't add together in regards to spell slot level? So a level 20 character with wizard 10 and sorcerer 10 wouldn't be able to cast 9th level spells, but rather 1st to 5th level wizard spells and 1st to 5th level sorcerer spells.correct

Also, enhancements: If a character multi-classes, will they be able to choose enhancements from both class lists? Yes. A 2FTR/18Wiz could spend all their enhancements on Wiz enhancements, or a mix of the two (although they will only qualify for up toL2 Ftr enhancemetns and L18 Wiz enhancements. .


Similarly, assuming one can use enhancements from either class, if someone were to be a human cleric/paladin/favored soul, would he be able to take all of the healing spell bonus enhancements, or would taking one knock out the others? Generally taking an enhancement from one class locks out a similar enhancement line for the others. Generally you can get both race and class, but not class and class (there are some exceptions I believe)


Welcome :)

Jadagrail
05-31-2010, 09:51 AM
Thanks for clarifying things for me.

I noticed under the wiki it will list levels as a prerequisite for both class and race enhancements, but does not actually say "class level." Since you've implied at least some enhancements require a minimum class level, are all class enhancements bound by class level, or will some be purely player level?

Rusty_Can
05-31-2010, 10:06 AM
Racial enhancements have character level requirements.

Class enhancements have class level requirements.

Jadagrail
05-31-2010, 07:27 PM
Is cross-classing ever "worth" it for practicality or "best damage/defense/healing's" sake, or is it really just suited for people who want to do things a little different?

Maxson
05-31-2010, 07:35 PM
I'd recommend looking on the build forums for the true answer to that question.

multiclassing certainly isn;t for people who want to do things "a bit different" multiclassing is the de facto standard for building characters very few characters are PURE to one class (the most common being wizard, sorc, cleric and favoured soul because their amount of spells is effected by their class level) but most classes that primarily fight in melee are benefited by multiclassing. There is little point taking a melee ranger past 18 ranger levels for example, but a variety of reasons to have 1 rogue and 1 monk level in there. (utility and bonus armour class respectively)

I currently play a 12 fighter/2 monk/6 paladin and it does things a pure character of any of those classes simply could not hope to do.

Pure monks are however very popular.

edit: that said capstones provide powerful benefits (except the damn rogue one which is so situational it's unreal, and its very existence is only of any use if your party is terrible) and third tier prestige enhancements tend to be bloody good.

Jadagrail
05-31-2010, 08:58 PM
I'm not really interested in finding the "best" setup where I'm 13 levels of sorceror 1 level of cleric and 6 levels of barbarian, reaching a special combination that permits me to summon Mjolnir from Thor's very hand while the dark lord Cthulhu strokes my manly beard with his mouth tentacles.

Odds are I'll just go 20 levels of fighter, assuming I play that long, and see how it goes.

If one finds a tome, does it become bound or can they save it for another character? I think you save your items during true reincarnation anyway, I'd assume you could save a +4 tome until after reincarnating, right?

tihocan
05-31-2010, 08:59 PM
Is cross-classing ever "worth" it for practicality or "best damage/defense/healing's" sake, or is it really just suited for people who want to do things a little different?
Multiclassing is sometimes the only way to achieve something specific with a build.

sinohptik
05-31-2010, 09:25 PM
Multiclassing is something you should approach when you have more game knowledge/mechanics under your belt, if you want to do it with success.

As has been said, they are usually built from the ground up with a very specific purpose, and will likely be at least 32 pt builds..

There are synergies between the classes that make some combos more effective than others. But, and this is a big "but," you HAVE to realize you are giving things up by not staying pure. The trick is to make sure the skills and synergies gained either outweigh the lost benefits, or are critical to the end build ideal. Pure classes and properly built multi-classed are on par with each other as far as "uberness" goes. In certain applications, some builds will simply do better than others, but in no way are multi-class "better" than a pure. When it comes down to it, a pure build is less easily messed up (though still very possible) than a multi-class. A level 20 fighter would be a good choice for a first character. I personally would suggest something that could self-heal (most likely a cleric if you are new to the game). Its not crazy to have more than one character either..

With that being said, i encourage anyone new to try as many different builds as they can. It may not get you your first toon to cap ASAP, but it will teach you about so many things about the game that can only be learned by experience. You learn what type of build works best for your playstyle, general strategies, things to avoid, etc. It can be a fantastic learning experience., but you need to expect that many of them will be unviable even mid-game. I have deleted more characters than i can remember (including many 12+). The builds they were replaced with continually got better and better.

edit: do not bother even thinking about a +4 tome. When it comes to tomes, wait til after reincarnation to use though.

Sogrin
06-01-2010, 12:37 AM
If one finds a tome, does it become bound or can they save it for another character? I think you save your items during true reincarnation anyway, I'd assume you could save a +4 tome until after reincarnating, right?

regarding tomes, in most cases +1 and +2 tomes can be traded/sold, where +3 and +4 are bound to the character who looted them.

If you plan to TR, either get multiple copies of the same stat, or just save the one for after. If your not TRing, go nuts.

llpillagerll
06-01-2010, 12:54 AM
How exactly does sacred work against turning undead?

Does it stack? What if i cast seek eternal rest giving me a +4 sacred bonus, and then have armor on that gives me sacred +2, does this stack giving me a +6 for the sake of turning the undead, and is there anything else that will stack so i can get this as high as possible?

Falco_Easts
06-01-2010, 01:18 AM
In regards to enhancements that add attributes, is it safe to assume that those added stats will not count towards prerequisites for feats such as two weapon fighting or minimum ability scores for casting spells? (correct


Slight clarification, they do count towards ability scores for casting spells. There are plenty of rangers & pali's that only start with 10 or less WIS and pick up a +WIS item to let them cast spells.

Jadagrail
06-01-2010, 01:47 AM
If one's normal character is a regular elf, is it worth pushing through to 400 favor, and rerolling as a drow, since 32 point builds take 1750 favor? I'm thinking the spell resistance will help, and considering I'm really considering rerolling anyway, as I've wasted my skill points in jump early on, and would probably rather go with either tumble or balance, and used magic device, the 2 extra intelligence and 2 extra charisma will help in that area I think.

At 20, I could reincarnate into a normal elf with 34 points, or a drow with 30, or if I've grown tired of being an elf, or perhaps even a fighter, who knows. Does the innate spell resistance help much? I've noticed during the past few quests that shamans and the like force me to take it up the ass. Granted, it's probably not a bad idea to take some willpower as well. (Just recalling a sorcerer I tested out before, it might be a good idea to stick four points into charisma after going drow instead of wisdom, and use the force of personality feat, though I'm uncertain about giving up a feat for it, since I have those pretty much mapped out already.)

Curious, regarding feats... I've grown fond of the spring attack feat because moving around people in fights, as well as hitting more difficult monsters as I run away has worked out for me well. I'm aware of the attack sequence chain, and the +5 and +10 extra to BAB that is added for standing still and continually swinging. I suppose my question is: in your (this is a general "your" so I mean anyone really) experience, is it worth having spring attack to not drop the 4 to attack rolls while moving, or is it more the case that if you're to the point where you're distinguishing between enemies you need to run around and enemies you stand still for, the -4 won't mean all that much with +4 or +6 weapons, buffs, and +20 BAB while moving? It seemed promising for pvp earlier, but even so I'm not entirely certain the non-loss of 4 is worth two additional feat uses. (I'd probably still take dodge just for the slight extra ac, though even now I'm thinking of replacing that with an extra toughness or something similar.) ... (Although if I put skill points into tumble, it would push me towards mobility again, and then spring attack is only a feat away, again.)

Sorry, answered questions tend to always spark more and more questions from me.

Daliyn
06-01-2010, 01:56 AM
This dark green italic font is awfully to read on a higher resolution.

Jadagrail
06-01-2010, 02:37 AM
This dark green italic font is awfully to read on a higher resolution.

Your words sadden me.

tihocan
06-01-2010, 05:54 AM
Yep your font is really hard to read.

Drow SR is worthless at higher levels and Spring Attack is not worth 3 feats (it can be ok on a Fighter who gets tons of feats, and on a Tempest Ranger who needs it).

Jadagrail
06-01-2010, 06:10 AM
Does the change in color help, or should I toss the font as well? I don't have any problem seeing it, but it's not significant enough to me to torture you all with it.

Sinni
06-01-2010, 06:17 AM
it's still a pain to read to be honest. i didn't even read what you wrote because of that. luckily the first reply contains your message reposted in a readable font

Lorien_the_First_One
06-01-2010, 06:28 AM
it's still a pain to read to be honest. i didn't even read what you wrote because of that. luckily the first reply contains your message reposted in a readable font

I had to edit the "Jesus" font out. (Honest, quote him, that's the font name lol)

Jadagrail
06-01-2010, 06:59 AM
I had to edit the "Jesus" font out. (Honest, quote him, that's the font name lol)

It's an old thing of mine, from older games and forums. I went ahead and edited the posts to toss the formatting, thus assimilating and disappearing into the crowd.