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the_remover
05-30-2010, 03:19 PM
Hello all.

I'm new to the game, and it was my intent to be a tanking focused character. I'm understanding most of the ideas behind it, and the differences between being a tank in DDO and many other games.


I am having little or no problem for the most part, and people enjoy grouping with me.

The problem I *AM* having:

Shaman!

A common occurrence is that they cast "hold person" on me, and then everything kills me super fast while I'm held in place.
What am I supposed to do here? How is this dealt with? I'm starting to get into harder content where hold person = guarenteed death for me.


I'm currently level 5 and because it's my first character, I chose one of the pre-built paths (Fighter -> Stalwart). I understand these aren't optimal but surely they must be capable of doing their designed job?


Anyways, any guidance would be appreciated. It was disheartening to get instantly nuked by these things constantly last night, and it was obvious I was doing something wrong.

Thanks in advance!

SolarDawning
05-30-2010, 03:23 PM
When Hold Person is cast on you, you make a Will Saving Throw to resist it.
Equipping items which increase your Wisdom or your saving throws will help.

Usually though, it's easier just to kill the shamans first. =)

The other big helpful thing:
You die so quickly when held because all attacks made on your are automatic critical hits.
If you equip an item with Fortification, that gives you a chance to resist a critical, turning it into a normal hit. Light Fortification will block 25% of criticals, Moderate 75%, and Heavy (which you can't get until level 9) will make you immune to critical hits.

See if you can track down a light or Moderate fortification item, that'll help you stay alive while held or otherwise incapacitated.

Scalion
05-30-2010, 03:28 PM
1st -- Be aware of positioning. If you rush into a room full of shamans, like the first room after the shrine in Butcher's... you're asking for a quick death. 5 shamans in there or so, and between hold person and scorching ray, nobody is going to last long. You can often pull targets back to you rather than rushing to them. If you're right around the corner and they can't see you, they can't cast on you, let them come to you.

2nd -- Go for shamans first. I always go for a quick trip on a shaman, or at the very least try to keep him too busy or kill him fast enough to prevent him from casting spells.

3rd -- While you're held, every hit is a crit, so unless you have fortification you'll drop fast. At higher levels you can get moderate (75%) and heavy (100%) fortification, so you won't be critted much while held. It helps a lot.

the_remover
05-30-2010, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the prompt and to-the-point replies!

Helpful information.


I have a hard time "pulling" casters in general it seems, when I go around a corner, they tend to just shoot at the wall instead of giving chase. In some cases it just involves running further down a hall, but not always an option.


Another related question, is hold person something that someone can remove or "dispel" from me in some fashion?
It happens so quickly that it's probably not practical anyway, I was just curious.

Thanks

Tuberculozis
05-30-2010, 03:49 PM
Weird...they've never cast that on me. Ever o_O (I'm playing WarForged/fighter -> vanguard)

The only problems I have with Shamans are ranged attacks. Especially lightning on elite -_- A good party with a cleric in it usually makes it all ok, though.

But now I'm wondering: how come they never cast 'hold person' on me?

Quijonsith
05-30-2010, 03:50 PM
Another tip for you is to get an item that has spell resist on it, the highest you can get for your level and price range. Spell resistance is like an armor class vs. non damaging spells. What that means is all the spells that don't directly hurt you, like hold, dance, etc, all the crowd control type spells, the enemy caster will have to make another check against your spell resistance before you even have to make a save. If he gets through that you then still get to make your save.

All of my melee carry spell resistance items and it helps alot. You can see when it saves you from a spell because a translucent blue shield looking effect appears infront of your character briefly and fades out, like an invisible force field just protected you from something.

EDIT: to remove it once it does land on you a caster would need to cast 'break enchantment'. Not sure what else would work. I don't think remove paralysis works on hold.

sirdanile
05-30-2010, 03:50 PM
I suppose if someone cared enough to use a remove paralysis potion on you it would fix it.

Remember, shield blocking works even when held, hold your shield block button whenever you find yourself unable to act and are being beaten on physically.

Other tips for shaman: Fire/lightning resist are awesome. Kill them first even if it means running straight to them killing them off then backing away to your "pull" spot.

Quijonsith
05-30-2010, 03:50 PM
Weird...they've never cast that on me. Ever o_O (I'm playing WarForged/fighter -> vanguard)

The only problems I have with Shamans are ranged attacks. Especially lightning on elite -_- A good party with a cleric in it usually makes it all ok, though.

But now I'm wondering: how come they never cast 'hold person' on me?

I'm not sure but I believe warforged are immune to effects like hold person.

sirdanile
05-30-2010, 03:52 PM
I'm not sure but I believe warforged are immune to effects like hold person.

correct, wf are also immune to poison, disease, negative levels, and have base 25% fortification, and can be healed by arcanes though it comes at a -50% divine healing penalty.

DoctorWhofan
05-30-2010, 03:52 PM
No dispelling really. Remove paralisys pots but you have to be moving for that. Get a shield clickie, resist pots (fire being the best, then acid) target the Shamans first, even over named (unless he's a shaman) . Up your saves resistance items and stat items. Carry curse removal pots. drink a heal pot as soon as you get out of hold person.

Matuse
05-30-2010, 11:54 PM
The role of the tank can be a very useful one, but it should not be the ONLY job that you do.

Pick up power attack, and a beefy 2 handed weapon, and when shamans and other nuisance casters are around, switch to max offense and give them a severe pounding. Once they are dead, then flip over to sword&board against the remaining melee types.

One of the biggest issues with tanking in DDO is that there's basically no need to ever have 2 people in the same group doing it, so in preperation for the times when you are with another tank, it is highly beneficial to you and your group to be able to bring large quantities of pain on demand.

wolfy42
05-31-2010, 12:38 AM
Some good advice but alot has been left out as well.

Not to far in the future a spell called freedom of movement will be available (other players can cast it on you) which will make you immune to hold spells.

If you really want to be a defensive type player warforged is a great race because it is immune to hold person (although it can be stunned etc still) and it has a natural 25% fortification. You can get a medium fortification item much earlier (I think it's actually available as low as lvl 4 on race restricted equipment) and that stacks on a warforged to give them 100% immunity to crit hits and sneak attacks. That helps a ton. WF do need to avoid rust monsters though as you get torn up by them.

For pulling don't worry if the spell casters don't come around the corner...the melee ones will. If the melee characters are all dead even if your paralized the only one who can hit you is the spellcaster...and he uses elemental attacks. Equip decent resist items or get resist buffs (From other party members, house buffs etc) and you won't take much damage from them ethier. Spell casters usually will eventually come around corners but they move much slower in general, giving you time to wipe out the melee first.

Some spells can also be dodged or jumped over. If you see a ray spell or a acid blob heading your way strafe to the left or right and later with a high enough jump, jump over it. That prevents all the damage nicely.

Also get some Owl's wisdom clickies. Items with 3 charges of owls wisdom (9 minutes per rest) are available by lvl 4. That will boost your will saves by 2...making it 10% less likely you will be held. Make sure you have a +will save item equiped as well and later on use heroism potions etc. Even solo this can give you a pretty decent will save and prevent you from being held as often at least.

Another clickie that can help a ton is invisibility. This will let you run past the melees and attack the spellcasters before they even start getting off spells. This can make a huge difference in how a battle goes down, reducing the number of casts by 3 spellcasters from 12 or so before they are dead (saying they don't hold you before you kill em) to only 2-3....giving you a much better chance of success.

If in a party have everyone focus on spellcasters first. Thats pretty much always standard in any part but many low level ones are not used to it yet.

Spellcasters (both wizard types and cleric types) can use remove paralysis on you if your held. Usually best to use a wand and mine always have one ready just in case. It might be worth it to grab one and give it to a party member just to make sure someone can unparalyze you.

Anyway defense is not a great way to go in DDO sadly especially long term. It does help to have a strong defense but it takes more and more investment to get one and often you are better off just doing a ton of damage instead. I would not suggest going for a tank role with your first character. AC by itself is not enough in most cases, you need resists as well, evasion, Damage reduction and high fortification along with good player skills. Even with all that you need intimidate to make it actually worthwhile and still will probably be less useful in more parties then a damage specialized character will be.

If you do go with Stalwart Defender (the PRE not the generic build) it might be worth it to go dwarf instead of warforged for the additional shield DR bonuses. Stalwart defenders have the ability to reach very high AC and also get the highest DR in the game which is very useful against melee attacks. Make sure your maxing intimidate though as without it all your defense is not going to do a party much good at all.