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Drakos
05-27-2010, 05:13 PM
As we know the monk benefits from the Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) feats as normal. This is working the way it does in PnP. What I would like to suggest is the the Two-Weapon Defense (TWD) Feat(s) and Tempest PrE line be corrected to worlk as per the PnP rules as well.

A Monks unarmed attacks are considered to be both Natural and Manufactured weapons for all purposes (spells, feats, abilities). In PnP the TWD feats require that you weild two weapons to gain the benefits, Monk unarmed attacks fullfill this requirement just like for the TWF feats. The same holds true for the abilities granted bye the Tempest PrC in the PnP game. So why do they not grant their benefits in DDO?

azrael4h
05-27-2010, 08:03 PM
The reason is probably a lack of foresight in coding. Just a guess, but the code for TWD likely checks the equipped weapon slots to determine if it grants a bonus or not. If both weapon slots are equipped with a weapon, then it activates, and adds the AC. If not, it doesn't.

Come later, here is Monk who doesn't necessarily use weapons, but the code still checks for them. Failing to find two weapons equipped, it doesn't trigger.

This is of course assumptions, based on how I would have likely coded it. The reason it hasn't been fixed it the same for every other bug that has not been fixed.

hydra_ex
05-27-2010, 08:20 PM
I'll advocate for TWD, and I think it should happen, but Tempest's bonus is "shield of whirling steel," so I don't think its appropriate for monks, TBH.

(Although, you could argue about clubs, but, whatever)

Angelus_dead
05-27-2010, 09:56 PM
As we know the monk benefits from the Two-Weapon Fighting (TWF) feats as normal. This is working the way it does in PnP.
That is not true. DDO monks have the additional advantage of no -2 attack penalty and no 50% offhand strength, which does not follow the D&D rules.

Note that many people misread the rule about unarmed strikes and offhand attacks.

Drakos
05-28-2010, 12:22 AM
I'll advocate for TWD, and I think it should happen, but Tempest's bonus is "shield of whirling steel," so I don't think its appropriate for monks, TBH.

(Although, you could argue about clubs, but, whatever)
What I was refering to was the PnP version of the bonus to AC is called Tempest Defense and the only trigger is that you are two-weapon fighting. My suggestion was to make it closer to the PnP version.

Drakos
05-28-2010, 12:29 AM
That is not true. DDO monks have the additional advantage of no -2 attack penalty and no 50% offhand strength, which does not follow the D&D rules.

Note that many people misread the rule about unarmed strikes and offhand attacks.
Oh yes I agree that the -2 is missing, but that is due to the way they implimented Flury of Blows. They really didn't. We still get the same number of attackes as everyone else, unlike the PnP version, we just got a speed boost. This was to accomodate the change from turn based to real time twitch. Since they didn't give Monks actual addidional attacks in their chain they couldn't penalize the normal attacks with the -2. BTW the -2 eventually goes away (1 at level 5 and 1 at level 9). Monks in PnP also gain an additional flury attack at level 11.

I agree that the extra damage hooks provided by TWF for Monks should only gain 1/2 strength. This is how it is in PnP, and I would support said change.