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maddmatt70
05-27-2010, 03:07 PM
This is a petition for Turbine to create a legendary mode of difficulty which provides more challenge than epic will now that epic is getting dumbed down. Furthermore, Turbine should make plans to create a Godmode when legendary mode inevitably gets dumbed down sometime in the future.

Eladiun
05-27-2010, 03:11 PM
If you just look at Godmode the wrong way, your character permanently loses two levels.

Yaga_Nub
05-27-2010, 03:16 PM
If you just look at Godmode the wrong way, your character permanently loses two levels.

That, good sir, is Yaga mode. You also lose 2 charisma points. If you keep starting for more than 5 minutes, your palms become hairy and you go blind.







Wait, that might be something else that makes your palms become hairy and you go blind. I know one of those things will at least make you go blind.

Cyr
05-27-2010, 03:20 PM
/meh

Or this weakening of epic is to provide a proper starting point for when they put out harder GH Epics, and then harder vale epics...

Trillea
05-27-2010, 03:23 PM
/meh

Or this weakening of epic is to provide a proper starting point for when they put out harder GH Epics, and then harder vale epics...

This is what I am hoping. Although they could have phrased it this way to begin with.

SquelchHU
05-27-2010, 03:27 PM
Epic? Difficult? Tedious to be certain, and quite boring. But difficult? Well maybe one or two are, the rest are an exercise in staying awake.

So they mentioned lowering mob to hit so that AC can actually matter, and lowering their saves (but they're still immune to almost everything). Is there something else I missed here? Because it's not as if people needed AC or failed saves before.

BlackSteel
05-27-2010, 06:20 PM
face it norg, the game is continually getting carebeared for the new players. In some instances its been good, some allright, but alot of it has just been disheartening.

it drives me nuts seeing a 'newer' forum poster commenting how the first 3 updates were high level, and the next few should be low level. I really dont think they realize that the updateS with the inspired quarter were a hogwash for already established players. That those quests, while not low level were essentially for the newer playerbase. (the quests are short and incredibly easy, and aside from the ultrarare eardweller, none of the loot should find its way on to a raid/epic geared character)

theres been no new raid or challenging high level content outside of a few epic quests since the first update with Amrath. and now they're making epic content easily accessible to the masses as well.

Graark
05-27-2010, 06:26 PM
I prefer l33t mode and maybe ubar l33t mode, can we get l33t mode?

REALb0r3d
05-27-2010, 06:45 PM
So far the only "dumbing down" is the across the board reduction in saves Eladrin said is now being brought in as a tiered implementation.

On saves:

We're considering this sort of more cautious tiered rollout. Thanks for all the feedback everyone.

There is also an opposing "defender roll" for mobs that could potentially make AC viable in epics. It effectively lowers attack bonuses by ten if you run straight numbers.

What I see is AC builds to becoming comfortable long enough to catch a string of bad rolls and remember they're playing an epic quest.

The only "dumbing" of epics I see is the token fragment system... which I'm not happy with, but that will in all likelihood become reality.

hydra_ex
05-27-2010, 06:52 PM
(the quests are short and incredibly easy, and aside from the ultrarare eardweller, none of the loot should find its way on to a raid/epic geared character)

Just to nitpick a bit, some of the upgraded loot is quite useful; Death's touch is greater necromancy focus in one hand, regalia is greater evocation focus, the quorforged docent is useful (which, in comparison to a DT, provides -1 saves (-3 will), +10 hp*, and less guards, so potentially worse, is much less of a pain to get), and the various rahl's mights are +5 improved destruction weapons which can situationally come in very handy. The gloves as well, although very situational, are fun to use.

*Depends on your t2. It might be -10 hp as well, making it a tad worse across the board. Still beats DT grinding though, IMO. Would rather focus on other things.

smatt
05-27-2010, 07:15 PM
Waste of money... Those that want this should pony up and pay for it...

Ya... Epic is doing awesome :rolleyes: The reason epic is being toned down is that it appeals to a very narrow demo of the player base... I've said exactly this all along.. It's unwise to develope for less than 10% of the population... I'm betting current epic content quests are being run by less than 5% of the population... Epic IMO was a mistake from day one.. But that's the choice they made long ago...

Sorry Matt.... Bad idea...

Krag
05-27-2010, 07:22 PM
I like this idea. Multiply mob hp by 10, and give them all heavy fort. Legendary!

Borror0
05-27-2010, 07:35 PM
The goal of those changes is not to make Epic easier; it's to make it less tedious and more varied.

While you might have liked the way Epic was, many players didn't. Players like you, Shade and BlackSteel are hardcore among the hardcore. Few have that much resistance to tedious, and that is why Epic saves get lowered.

smatt
05-27-2010, 07:38 PM
The goal of those changes is not to make Epic easier; it's to make it less tedious and more varied.

While you might have liked the way Epic was, many players didn't. Players like you, Shade and BlackSteel are hardcore among the hardcore. Few have that much resistance to tedious, and that is why Epic saves get lowered.


Yes tedious, boring.... Not hard just tedious and boring...

BlackSteel
05-27-2010, 07:45 PM
Just to nitpick a bit, some of the upgraded loot is quite useful; Death's touch is greater necromancy focus in one hand, regalia is greater evocation focus, the quorforged docent is useful (which, in comparison to a DT, provides -1 saves (-3 will), +10 hp*, and less guards, so potentially worse, is much less of a pain to get), and the various rahl's mights are +5 improved destruction weapons which can situationally come in very handy. The gloves as well, although very situational, are fun to use.

*Depends on your t2. It might be -10 hp as well, making it a tad worse across the board. Still beats DT grinding though, IMO. Would rather focus on other things.

the regalia is ok, necromancy focus is found on other loot as well (and the end game is filled with instances where you cant even use the spell school), I dont like the docent at all (and I play only WF chars, and not one of them would even glance at the thing). and the kamas, are well... kamas. useful for monks to vorpal, not much else, so best case scenario is an awesome vorpal, big whoopie.

most of the loot is geared towards newer players to reasonably attain mediocre equipment. which in all fairness is decent quality for the effort/risk/difficulty

SquelchHU
05-28-2010, 07:06 AM
I like this idea. Multiply mob hp by 10, and give them all heavy fort. Legendary!

Adding a 0 at the end makes everything 10 times more fun!

MrCow
05-28-2010, 07:17 AM
After reading the suggestion all I'm going to say is I'd rather not relive the tedium that was the original Wizard-King Epic and original Offering of Blood Epic (the first Lamannia incarnations).

Lleren
05-28-2010, 07:30 AM
Here are a few suggestion for Legendary mode.

Traps are random, and must be disarmed. They kill anyone trying to jump through or otherwise bypass.

Optionals are required.

Potions and scrolls do nothing.

There are no shrines.

There are no resses.

There is no reentry.

Edit: I'm not sure if I am serious or not, and you shouldn't be either.

gwlech
05-28-2010, 08:01 AM
If you just look at Godmode the wrong way, your character permanently loses two levels.

iddqd - God Mode

idkfa - All Weapons and Keys

idspispopd - Walk Through Walls

Yaga_Nub
05-28-2010, 08:30 AM
face it norg, the game is continually getting carebeared for the new players. In some instances its been good, some allright, but alot of it has just been disheartening.

it drives me nuts seeing a 'newer' forum poster commenting how the first 3 updates were high level, and the next few should be low level. I really dont think they realize that the updateS with the inspired quarter were a hogwash for already established players. That those quests, while not low level were essentially for the newer playerbase. (the quests are short and incredibly easy, and aside from the ultrarare eardweller, none of the loot should find its way on to a raid/epic geared character)

theres been no new raid or challenging high level content outside of a few epic quests since the first update with Amrath. and now they're making epic content easily accessible to the masses as well.

Hey I resent that! (see sig)

Aerendil
05-28-2010, 08:35 AM
Here are a few suggestion for Legendary mode.

Traps are random, and must be disarmed. They kill anyone trying to jump through or otherwise bypass.

Optionals are required.

Potions and scrolls do nothing.

There are no shrines.

There are no resses.

There is no reentry.

Edit: I'm not sure if I am serious or not, and you shouldn't be either.


Agreed 100%. IMO most (if not all) dungeons should be like this, but I digress.
Having static traps, monster spawns, even the monsters themselves, makes re-runs of the dungeons tedious. If you're going to have a game that enforces repetition of dungeons, it's important to make certain elements random to keep things interesting/exciting.

If there is a legendary mode, I'd also love to see new UI for older monsters.
For example, in legendary mode, the Stormreaver may have learned how to harness the power of fire as well as lightning; or Velah may have learned how to fly, wing buffet, tail slap, crush (on landing), etc.

Heck, even introduce better regular enemy AI. Have monsters that should be intelligent know when NOT to chase a cleric through his blade barrier, or have trolls run in fear when they see a firewall instead of happily running through it.

In other words, introduce more enemy tactics, and make battles more challenging that way instead of simply adding an extra 1000000 hp and upping their damaging attacks tenfold.

Swedishchef
05-28-2010, 08:50 AM
/signed if the loot is none and 0 chests.

Why, well you say you want a challange there for you can have one and try out all your nice stuff in, no need to get loot or anything else just to have a challange.

Then can i add, Make new highend material and stop reusing old **** that has been run to death.

jomonkey527
05-28-2010, 09:02 AM
Legendary, Epic all the same. How bout letting us travel to other lands? Everything is pretty much instance based anyway. It would not take much to fly or teleport to other lands. It would provide a real world feel, provide new quests, and new areas.

Aerendil
05-28-2010, 09:08 AM
Legendary, Epic all the same. How bout letting us travel to other lands? Everything is pretty much instance based anyway. It would not take much to fly or teleport to other lands. It would provide a real world feel, provide new quests, and new areas.

Agreed about opening up other lands/areas. They've introduced Quori recently, and psionics, so it would be nice to throw Sarlona in. Maybe introduce Kalashtar as a playable race; introduce psionic classes and abilities; and introduce several new dungeons / cities to explore.

Disagreed that it would provide a real world feel. IMO, instancing destroys that.
Being able to instantly teleport/fly to anywhere in the world removes any semblance of distance. That's actually one thing I miss about older games such as UO or EQ - the vastness of a world.
Newer games lose that feel. For example, looking on a Xen'Drik map, the Sands of Menectarun are VERY far away from Stormreach, deep into Xen'drik. In DDO? They're a mere teleport / zone away.

Anyways, I digress.