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Artagon
05-24-2010, 03:50 PM
As I'm posting this, I'm sure I'll get flames about PvP in general, being that it's a love-hate thing in DDO.

Just as a caveat: I personally do not PvP other than to test out concepts with friends, and then I usually find a deserted pit to do it in.

Now, why is PvP disliked in DDO? It's counter-intuitive to try to play PvP in a team-centric game, balancing classes based around PvP would ruin the customization of characters for a lot of us, and frankly, there's no real benefit to doing it.

My suggestion is this: Build team PvP raids for end-game content.

Here's how I would suggest it work, the party gathers in a raid party and then assigns teams via the PvP group mechanics. Upon entering, the teams would be scaled based on the current scaling mechanics used for missions (like a handicap to even the parties). This would prevent parties from making unbalanced groups. There may be some other balancing mechanics involved as well, but basically, I'd like to see competitive quests where the teamed groups race to achieve goals, the first one to achieve each goal would get the xp for it, and at the end there could be a brawl between the parties to achieve PvP dominance and collect the end-rewards. This would keep the flavor of DDO, as they are questing for goals, it keeps balance the same, because it's PARTY balance you have to worry about so there would need to be no real tweaking of character balance (other than maybe developers getting to see their scaling levels challenged and tweak those levels)

The important part would be to make sure that no matter whether you win or lose there is some reward for doing it. Obviously, doing it 20x regardless would give you the end reward options..

Edit: As it seems that people are not really liking this idea, someone later suggested Monster Play similar to LoTRO. This is what I said following that idea.

I like the Monster Play mechanic idea better than my own to be honest. In this way, existing dungeons could be populated with INTELLIGENT monsters to play against. I'm not really sure what the reward system is in LoTRO for playing as a monster, but this seems like a balanced way to do it.. maybe they could do small turbine point awards for playing as a monster based upon achieving specific goals? By introducing this concept, it is no longer about the e-Peen, because the opposition is not using their regular characters, but rather generated characters for the mission at hand, additionally, they are doing it incognito, so they don't have to feel like they are going to be trashed upon for playing their characters well. Perhaps as a player, you are rewarded for choosing this difficulty level by getting +10% xp or +1 loot level. In this concept, it does not need to be raid content, simply qeue up to play as a monster while you kill time at the lobster or do something else, and as soon as someone selects player monster difficulty (regardless of level) You get pulled into the group of monsters ready to thwart the players. When you die, you get a 10 second timer while watching out of your next monster's eyes so that you can see what's happening from the new perspective before getting control.

Beld
05-24-2010, 03:53 PM
/not signed

If you give rewards for PvP there would be even MORE threads whining how unbalanced it is.

Also, balancing parties for PvP would be very difficult....as each class has a myriad of build options etc. How do you build a handicapping system for that ??

Last but not least, D&D is not a PvP game, never has been, is not even remotely balanced for it and should they decide to start handing out loot for it, I would go find something else to do.

Cam_Neely
05-24-2010, 03:54 PM
Pvp is disliked in DDO, I think, because it is attractive to a different type of player. ie immature or juvenile (not age, but mentality.) One of the nice things about DDO is the relatively friendly community.

That being said, something basic would be nice. What I'm thinking is a 12 man raid. Drop one at the starting point of a Dungeon, and one at the end point, and they have to fight to get to the other side and destroy a crystal. So you have to think about defending your own, and attacking the other one. Would be nice if each side could put up an agreed upon prize (similar to a trade window) before hand. Say one guild wagers X, then the other guild needs to come up with either X to wager against, or Y, which might be of equal value. If the first guild is stronger then the seconds, they might put up X+1 to get the other guild to come at them.

No balancing required, just make the party out of your guild and allies, that you think would be best. Could agree wither the other guild to cap it with only players for levels 10-15, or adjust you wager accordingly
Could be fun.

Lorien_the_First_One
05-24-2010, 03:54 PM
Best thing to do to balance the pits would be to close them. Just delete PvP from the game.

Sleepingcap
05-24-2010, 04:00 PM
You can start an arena/pvp event with preset teams vs preset teams.
Have a website with the ranking and whatnot.

But that would require some work from the players themselves.

(but if you are gonna do it, do contact support@ddo-daily.com so we can get it more publicity)

Artagon
05-24-2010, 04:01 PM
And yet some people like it.

Again, building party-centric PvP makes a heck of a lot more sense than the tavern brawls.. in party PvP your buds are there to back you up and if you make it to the arena first, your rogue can set up some of those new traps that they are talking about.. oh, and maybe stealth could actually work in this setting... As far as scaling goes, they already have mechanics in place for this in the adventure scaling. If you'll remember, they mentioned that different classes have different values for the scaling of monsters. Theres no reason parties couldn't be scaled based on similar mechanics, though I would rather there be buffs involved rather than debuffs.. or hp's could get low enough that one-shots would be a lot more prevalant.

I would prefer responses that are not simply, "I hate pvp, take it out instead of making it viable."

Loromir
05-24-2010, 04:03 PM
I don't spend much time PVP (I usually die), but I do go in when I only have a few minutes to be on. With that, said, I think PVP can be a friendly environment.

I was invited to head to head with another toon the other day, and we were pretty evenly matched. We actually ended up chatting for quite a while as we were bashing each others skulls.

This AM, only me and one other toon (A Cleric) were in arena. He was 3 lvls higher than me. He killed me everytime, but he would immediately heal me after I res'd.

Both of these were just little friendly encounters and I ended up adding them both to my friend list.

What I'm trying to say, if PVP is the reason you play DDO, then you probably should move on to another MMO. For me it is just another very small part of the overall DDO experience.

SquelchHU
05-24-2010, 04:04 PM
Best thing to do to balance the pits would be to close them. Just delete PvP from the game.

Well, they're useful for testing proc chances... but that's about it.

AcesWylde
05-24-2010, 04:07 PM
I think PvP as it is is rather pointless, the only think I can think of to make it even remotely fun, is to have a large outdoor PvP area, and add something like capture the flag, and king of the hill. A snow fort PvP area with snowball fights would have been cool during the winter games.

Baahb3
05-24-2010, 04:09 PM
... being that it's a love-hate thing in DDO.


Not really, more of a hate-hate thing.:D

Beld
05-24-2010, 04:09 PM
And yet some people like it.

Again, building party-centric PvP makes a heck of a lot more sense than the tavern brawls.. in party PvP your buds are there to back you up and if you make it to the arena first, your rogue can set up some of those new traps that they are talking about.. oh, and maybe stealth could actually work in this setting... As far as scaling goes, they already have mechanics in place for this in the adventure scaling. If you'll remember, they mentioned that different classes have different values for the scaling of monsters. Theres no reason parties couldn't be scaled based on similar mechanics, though I would rather there be buffs involved rather than debuffs.. or hp's could get low enough that one-shots would be a lot more prevalant.

I would prefer responses that are not simply, "I hate pvp, take it out instead of making it viable."

Player characters are not monsters....and generic scaling based solely on class would still make for very UNBALANCED PvP. There is already a mechanic in place for this, create your own raid, split the teams evenly and go to town....if you want to wager, wager the item(s) and have fun....but wasting dev time to try and make this minscule part of the game balanced (will never happen, as has been shown in other games, once you balance it one way, you have to rebalance it once ppl figure out how to take advantage and so forth).

Raid PvP can be run by you, balanced by you and with ANY rules you decide on if you find 11 other like minded people, this is how it should stay (for the record, I am in agreement with Lorien, it was an add on and should be nuked it for no other reason than the myriad threads about balancing it induces). Why ask for Turbine/WB to fix something that can already work the way you are asking for it to work?

Artagon
05-24-2010, 04:10 PM
Well, they're useful for testing proc chances... but that's about it.

Which is all I primarily use it for at this time.. but really wouldn't grinding for materials be a lot more fun if the run was different each time you did it?

Another idea for if one party finishes a goal first.. activate traps on their side to slow them down so that the other team blasts through and can get to the next goal first.. This would go along with the idea of having a different run each time.

Beld
05-24-2010, 04:13 PM
Which is all I primarily use it for at this time.. but really wouldn't grinding for materials be a lot more fun if the run was different each time you did it?

Another idea for if one party finishes a goal first.. activate traps on their side to slow them down so that the other team blasts through and can get to the next goal first.. This would go along with the idea of having a different run each time.

OK, I don't PvP at all, but penalizing the winning team by making it impossible for them to win the next part sounds like it would suck. It would also induce, hey, we'll just let team A win this part so we can run thru the next part and vice versa.....especially with rewards, this would not be a good idea.

eonfreon
05-24-2010, 04:20 PM
Which is all I primarily use it for at this time.. but really wouldn't grinding for materials be a lot more fun if the run was different each time you did it?

Another idea for if one party finishes a goal first.. activate traps on their side to slow them down so that the other team blasts through and can get to the next goal first.. This would go along with the idea of having a different run each time.

The concept that players would actually want it to be "fun" and "different" seems contrary to how real people do things.

If "grinding for materials" is on the line, everyone would find the perfect "path" to do something and that's the way everyone would do it.
Those who are doing it for "fun" would be shunned as not serious enough and a detriment to the holy work of "grinding for materials".

As people have said, that you keep ignoring, the mechanics are already somewhat in game. Just set up your arena, get two groups together and make your wager.

Artagon
05-24-2010, 04:21 PM
Player characters are not monsters....and generic scaling based solely on class would still make for very UNBALANCED PvP.

I call shenanigans on this. This requires no balancing of classes or class abilities, merely adjusted scaling based on party makeup.. The reason I included this is so that a guild raid didn't set up one side that was obviously better so that they could have one person sit on the other team and get wailed upon so that everyone else gets the raid loot. Requiring 6v6 raid and balancing the parties via buffs makes it make sense to balance the parties so that the raid isn't impossibly hard for one side or the other, and making there be positive and negative results for their actions creates a fluid gameplay that would entice people to actually enjoy a controlled PvP setting. I know that I get tired of running the same raid over and over with very little change in play just to get my piece of gear, and I've been around.. well, you can see how long.

I don't generally post, because I get sick of the negativity of posters, generally when I do, it's because I see opportunity for growth of the game. DDO should never be a WoW clone, I was reading a thread on this topic earlier today which made me consider the problem, how can DDO have robust PvP that other MMO players expect, while making it innovative and different from the other games... This is what I came up with.

To non-constructive posters:
If you don't like the idea, fine.. but don't fill my post with your "I hate PvP" flames.. Help me come up with better ideas for PvP that can make it fun for DDO players, or get out. Don't tell me why it won't work, give us ideas to MAKE it work.

Lorien_the_First_One
05-24-2010, 04:28 PM
To non-constructive posters:
If you don't like the idea, fine.. but don't fill my post with your "I hate PvP" flames.. Help me come up with better ideas for PvP that can make it fun for DDO players, or get out. Don't tell me why it won't work, give us ideas to MAKE it work.

It is completely constructive to suggest that it is not a good use of time to put dev time into PvP if we think its bad for the game. Dev time is a zero sum game. Time spent on A is time not spend on B.

Baahb3
05-24-2010, 04:31 PM
To non-constructive posters:
If you don't like the idea, fine.. but don't fill my post with your "I hate PvP" flames.. Help me come up with better ideas for PvP that can make it fun for DDO players, or get out. Don't tell me why it won't work, give us ideas to MAKE it work.

Your notion here is fine, you are just on a topic that has been discussed before. The PvP aspect is so small in DDO and so few people use it, that everyone, or very nearly, want this issue to just go away, removed from the game entirely.

We want zero resources dedicated to this facet of the game, it is just not something that belongs in this type of game.

So while your notion of improving and expanding the game is excellent, the topic you have chosen to 'improve' is one that is not wanted by the vast majority of the player base.

eonfreon
05-24-2010, 04:31 PM
I don't need your permission to give my opinions, son.

The whole cry me a river I don't post because people are so mean comes across especially weak.

Folks have made suggestions that can work to do somewhat of what you want.

Use the Arena system and organize it yourself. Put up wagers.

It will require a quite a bit of work on your part. That's the point.

Because most of us will vehemently oppose the Dev's doing any further work on PvP when we want more PvE.

rest
05-24-2010, 04:32 PM
How could it be better? By taking it out.

Actually, leave it in. It's a much more controlled environment to test guards and proc rates :D

Aashrym
05-24-2010, 04:36 PM
It is completely constructive to suggest that it is not a good use of time to put dev time into PvP if we think its bad for the game. Dev time is a zero sum game. Time spent on A is time not spend on B.

Exactly.

Not signed on the OP. Agree 100% with this.

Beld
05-24-2010, 04:38 PM
Once you offer rewards for doing it, then no matter what your original intentions where, it will be abused/exploited.

Allowing rewards for PvP (especially +4 tomes....REALLY??) would mean that every guild in the game would be running the PvP stuff to exploit it for the rewards, with very little risk. As I stated earlier, the mechanics for this kind of thing are ALREADY IN THE GAME, they just require YOU as a player to set things up and if you want rewards, to provide the rewards....this is how it should be.

Memnir
05-24-2010, 04:39 PM
This game has PvP? :eek:

Ethias
05-24-2010, 04:45 PM
NO REWARDS. Nothing, unless they insert chests equal to half the level of the level it's designed for or something, but I wouldn't want anything the level of +1 tomes even dropping; aka, maybe you can pick up some noob gear but unlikely anything major. Maybe offer collectables? :P

If I could improve PvP in this game, WITHOUT TAKING DEV TIME FROM PvE (read: this is impossible at the present time, so I would just leave PvP alone for now) I would:

-NOT MAKE ANY OF THE BELOW CHANGES TO PVE! These are ONLY against other players in PvP!!
-Change hold spells, stunning blow, to not give instant crits.
-Insert a shared DR on crowd control abilities and some debuffs.
-Reduce the damage done by Slayer Arrows on players.
-Modify Fortification for PvP a bit (making it still valuable, but not to completely negate crits and sneak attacks).
-Encourage group v group combat in some manner where the goal was something other than killing each other, but where killing one another was often a way to accomplish that goal.
-NOT MAKE ANY OF THE ABOVE CHANGES TO PVE! These are ONLY against other players in PvP!!

PvP could be much better in DDO, but it would take dev time away from PvE. Perhaps as DDO grows, there can be some time from developers to work on PvP, but I would really prefer they focus on improving end game, etc. Not every game needs every type of play; DDO does not need to cater to everything a player wants. I would rather play a serious PvP game for PvP anyway.

Lasulie
05-24-2010, 05:24 PM
create 3 sides that player can join upon starting their PvP adventures. Create one big circular non-instanced zone with a castle in the middle and a river somewhere with forest covering most of the map.
Let the players conquer the castle by breaking 2 doors and going all the way to the throne room to kill a dude with tons of HP defended by 1 of the 3 sides.
AND when PvP becomes the big feature everyone loves rename this game dungeons of camelot, add relics and RR as PvP rewards.
Alternativly go play DAoC.


Pvp is disliked in DDO, I think, because it is attractive to a different type of player. ie immature or juvenile (not age, but mentality.) One of the nice things about DDO is the relatively friendly community.

WOW that's like me saying PvE attracs ******* and bad players. I can understand that if your first PvP experience was with WoW that you'd think something like this but it's a problem with the whole game not just PvP. DAoC, SWG, CoV and even Warhammer all had very mature players even in the PvP environment.

tomfar72
05-24-2010, 05:55 PM
First, let me say I hate PVP. Not for the PVP in and of itself, but strictly for the fact that it ALWAYS leads to balancing PVE abilities so they are not overpowered in PVP which is enough to make me want to kick a puppy. The other big negative about PVP is that any dev time spent on PVP is not being spent on PVE, which is what the majority of the community cares about. (me included)

All that being said, I did have an idea for PVP in DDO that could be rather unique, fit within the D&D "theme," and not overly soak up dev time. Team PVP (6or12 man) set in dungeons we already have.(small-medium sized zones would work best) Team A starts at the quest entrance next to their chest, Team B starts at the end of the quest next to their chest. No mobs, no shrines, all doors are unlocked, all gates are open, and traps are active. The game ends when you loot your opponent's chest.

Basicaly it would be a dungeon type feel against another team. The maps already exist, which would cut down on Dev time.

jomonkey527
05-24-2010, 06:16 PM
I agree with one of the posts that for the most part DDO is friendly. I think I may have posted this before. I think cross server PVP would be cool. Maybe mission based. This way the community feel remains, server pride is maintained, and you would collectively work together.

Stormanne
05-24-2010, 06:21 PM
The only aspect of PvP that I, personally, would find acceptable is the Monster Play mechanic from LoTRo.

Artagon
05-24-2010, 06:41 PM
I appreciate the fresh ideas coming now. I like the monster system idea, that could be a blast! Also the chest at each end idea is pretty cool, though I'd leave the traps in for tactical play and allow both teams to collect the end reward regardless.

Either option you guys gave there would be workable, and if the monster system is already in LoTRO it might not be TOO horribly complicated to port over, though I believe their gameplay system is more like WoW

Nevthial
05-24-2010, 07:35 PM
It is completely constructive to suggest that it is not a good use of time to put dev time into PvP if we think its bad for the game. Dev time is a zero sum game. Time spent on A is time not spend on B.

I PvP alot. Waay too much, ask anyone who knows me. I do it because I'm tired of the same old content. If the dev's put any effort whatsoever into PvP, even 5 minutes of work, I would be really, really, miffed. PvP doesn't drive DDO. PvE and new quests/raids do. When new stuff comes out, the regular PvP'rs may not see me for two weeks. I then get bored and go back to it. It is a distraction, afterthought, and a way to meet and hang out with friends on the server I play on. ( Ghallanda) PvP in DDO shouldn't be about e-peens or ego's , it should remain a diversion. There should be nothing gained from it but a good time. When the dev's fixed the arena system way back, I was upset they put resources into it actually. If you want more PvP , maybe try LOTRO. It's a nice Turbine game too from what I hear from friends who PvP there. ( I wouldn't know personally, I only DDO)

Lorien nailed it on the head.

Uska
05-24-2010, 07:37 PM
By going to another game designed with pvp in mind that will never be ddo without changing the basic game and for something that not that many people do or care about is a huge waste of time

Falco_Easts
05-24-2010, 09:28 PM
I don't PVP but....

How about a quest along the lines of a castle seige. Raid group forms then is divided into two teams. One teams job is to attack the castle, storm the walls and take control. The other team needs to defend the walls, sally out to take out the seige engines and kill the enemy commander.
The two teams at no time will come into contact with each other, mobs will form the part of the enemy however it is a race. Whichever team obtains their objective first comletes the the quest and receives an end reward. The other team fails and receives no end reward.
By making mobs take the place of the enemy there is no need for PVP balance however you are still playing against another team of players to complete the quest and prove your team the better. It could also operate as a stand alone quest for a normal party where you can choose to attack or defend the castle.

How does that sound?

Nevthial
05-24-2010, 09:37 PM
I don't PVP but....

How about a quest along the lines of a castle seige. Raid group forms then is divided into two teams. One teams job is to attack the castle, storm the walls and take control. The other team needs to defend the walls, sally out to take out the seige engines and kill the enemy commander.
The two teams at no time will come into contact with each other, mobs will form the part of the enemy however it is a race. Whichever team obtains their objective first comletes the the quest and receives an end reward. The other team fails and receives no end reward.
By making mobs take the place of the enemy there is no need for PVP balance however you are still playing against another team of players to complete the quest and prove your team the better. It could also operate as a stand alone quest for a normal party where you can choose to attack or defend the castle.

How does that sound?

Zerg fest Whooot!!!

Artagon
05-26-2010, 04:54 PM
I guess my point was that PvP doesn't have to be pointless for the Devs to put into the game because if it's done right, it can enhance the end-game content so that it is not so stale all the time. You complain that you are doing the same thing over and over again so the dev's should make more missions, but really, you and I are looking for the same thing. Something to stave away boredom at cap.

I like the Monster Play mechanic idea better than my own to be honest. In this way, existing dungeons could be populated with INTELLIGENT monsters to play against. I'm not really sure what the reward system is in LoTRO for playing as a monster, but this seems like a balanced way to do it.. maybe they could do small turbine point awards for playing as a monster based upon achieving specific goals? By introducing this concept, it is no longer about the e-Peen, because the opposition is not using their regular characters, but rather generated characters for the mission at hand, additionally, they are doing it incognito, so they don't have to feel like they are going to be trashed upon for playing their characters well.

Stormwine
05-26-2010, 05:13 PM
Ive said it before Ill say it again. PvP in a game like this is secondary and to spend any time or money on it is ludicrous. I personally love PvP'ing in other games, First person Shooters, Online Pokere (kinda pvp lol) and EvE online. Games that are made for PvP and center around it. PvE is what makes this game great. Part of that is that classes aren't balanced and have their specialties. Plus it's a great break from the trash talking that accompanies pvp.
(And yes I know that there is an amount of trash talking in PvE but its different). Im not say take PvP out of DDO but Dev time is far more useful in things like races, classes, new dungeons, etc. Lets leave the PvP as it is when I need PvP I have plenty of FPS on my machine.

Vynnt
05-26-2010, 05:45 PM
I vote 'no'.

1. Killing a player is much different than killing a mob. Players have tiny amounts of hp compared to a mob, thus making spike damage king. In other games where PvP is prevalent, the classes are balanced. Warhammer: Age of Reckoning even lays it out for you. Melee DPS < Ranged DPS < Healers < Tanks < Melee DPS (or something like that, its been awhile). In DDO, it's not like that. It's more like Consistent DPS < Self Healers < Spike DPS < Self Healing Spike DPS. This causes problems in balancing.

2. Because of #1, you will have entire groups/raids full of WF sorcs owning everyone. Frustrating PvPers and causing them to roll WF sorcs of their own and the cycle will continue. AAs and dark monks to a lesser extent, but also overpowered in PvP.

3. PvP actively affecting PvE. Things like Otto's Irresistible and other CC are key components of PvE. To make them work for PvP, you would have to severely gimp them. Same goes for toning spike damage. Same goes for heavy fort and SA.

4. PvP passively affecting PvE. Right now, 90% of builds are angled toward PvE. The remaining ones are still useful for PvE. If PvP was to be a focus of DDO, you would have more people running builds that are possibly usuless in groups, but be good at PvP. An example, Dark path monk 6 str, weapon finesse, and like 8 toughnesses (no twfs, no point, all you are doing is hitting once).

5. I am strongly opposed to rewards for PvP. Exp points for pvp leads to an easy way for PvP builds to level, while screwing the majority of the people who play. I remember back when I used to play WAR, all I would do from log in to log out is sit in the queue and level up from pvp. Same goes for unique loot.


Having a whole different system of balances and adjustments to make it work would cause a whole lot of headaches and whiners. It's just not worth it.

Nevthial
05-26-2010, 06:50 PM
I like the Monster Play mechanic idea better than my own to be honest. In this way, existing dungeons could be populated with INTELLIGENT monsters to play against. I'm not really sure what the reward system is in LoTRO for playing as a monster, but this seems like a balanced way to do it.. maybe they could do small turbine point awards for playing as a monster based upon achieving specific goals? By introducing this concept, it is no longer about the e-Peen, because the opposition is not using their regular characters, but rather generated characters for the mission at hand, additionally, they are doing it incognito, so they don't have to feel like they are going to be trashed upon for playing their characters well.

It would be really, really cool. But honestly, the quests would be tougher for players to finish than running anything on Epic even. If a PvP'r was running a kobold shaman in say a quest chain like WW...Doooom to the poor souls trying to complete it!!
Alot of my regular PvP pals went to LOTRO to play the "freeps" I believe is what they call the monster classes. They seem to have a blast there, but I'm too hardcore a DDO'er to change games and join 'em. One thing that made me laugh and go oh man! how cool is that! at the same time is when they mentioned outdoor areas in LOTRO for PvP consisting of hordes of folks, most mounted. Like War Goats or some such even.Haflings on War Goats!!! LOL They said you can even play a type of Worg that's stealthy!!!

Calebro
05-26-2010, 07:10 PM
I'd be all for the Player Monster concept in a similar fashion to LOTRO. I loved it there.
But there would need to be some stipulations involved, such as a dedicated area (like LOTRO) or an option upon entering the dungeon.

I can just imagine the PD'ers entering a quest that they know like the back of their hand and running into a player controlled Trog Shaman.
Some of them would love it.
Others would be throwing things that their monitors when you killed their PD toon.

Majere_Aumar
05-28-2010, 06:32 PM
1st to the guys who say pvp is just for the immature. Thats a quite immature comment in itself. PVP gives people the chance to fight a fast moving, thinking enemy. Placing a firewall on the ground while NPC mobs stupidly walk in circles inside it does not test one's intellect or gaming ability.

Cheap, Simple PVP Balancing with 0 effect on PVE:
PVP balance can be acheived fairly and in little time by making pvp items available for each class which only work in the arenas. That way there's no reason to tamper with the classes themselves and no benefit from the gear except inside pvp.
Some of these items could also be earned through pvp, like in WoW.

Making it more fun:
At the moment, 99% of all pvp is done inside the wayward lobster....so....upgrade the tavern with a bigger pit. Put plenty of areas where non-casters can go to avoid LOS of casters who are at long range. Arrange it so melee dont just sit under the platform and smash casters as soon as they pop down....etc. Put a little though into game balance with the map layout.
At the moment, a melee is never going to accept a challenge against a caster in the Stash arena because he knows there is no chance of winning.
Make a random tough mob spawn and when people kill it, they have to fight for the treasure (pvp only item).

Fix some abilities so they work:
Invisibility and hiding should work in pvp areas.

Lagin
05-28-2010, 06:48 PM
I didnt read your post or the replies!

Who really cares about PVP?:cool:

heyytoi
05-28-2010, 07:00 PM
PvP is awesome.

Arvess
05-28-2010, 07:13 PM
PVP would be improved if the stealth mechanic would be improved. Also if you could choose an empty dungeon for your pvp arena, that would be cool. I'm not advocating doing these things at the expense of developing more mindless mobs to click on...just saying it'd be cool.

19BangoSkank19
06-01-2010, 12:03 AM
Pvp is disliked in DDO, I think, because it is attractive to a different type of player. ie immature or juvenile (not age, but mentality.) One of the nice things about DDO is the relatively friendly community.



You are talking of your own limited experience with PvP? I have taken part in much PvP across many MMO's and it comes down to how well executed it is by the dev's of the game as well as the maturity of the people you game with. In DDO, you run across immature gamers as you would anywhere. In no part do a few of these people make the whole aspect of PvP bad. A good example of a PvP system set up VERY nicely would be WoW, the battlegrounds and the arenas located in. I am sure DDO can come close if the dev's got creative.

Kominalito
06-01-2010, 12:10 AM
yay! peen vs peen! bring out the best in powergamers!1!!!

/sarcasm

Garbudo
07-29-2010, 04:24 PM
PvP will only work if they make a server for it with Evil and Good.. and neutral that kills everything. but then you would just have a pvp WoW server on our hands oh :eek: the humanity!

HeavenlyCloud
07-29-2010, 04:33 PM
My suggestion in pvp have always been no rewards, just make it fun and that is achievable with new arenas like this ones:

Fly Arena:

As you load in you are hit by an environmental effect which gives fly as long as you are in the arena, with increased movement speed (just a little bit cause the stormreaver's fly spell movement is slow). There should be a lot of walls in here or else casters would be rendered useless.


Where the floor? Arena:

Different gravity's and maybe even an anti-gravity effect which makes the ceiling "the floor".

I got tons of this suggestions for new arenas but mostly shut down by a lot of posters who think pvp is just about e-peen, they just don't get it that sometimes it's just fun fighting between friends.

Most people say classes aren't balanced for pvp but i never cared about balance i just want new fun arenas to play in.

Robi3.0
07-29-2010, 04:34 PM
Steps to Improving PvP by RoBi3.0


Step 1: Take character to a tavern.

Step 2: Log out of game.

Step 3: Log into WoW.

Step 4: enjoy improved PvP.

MartinusWyllt
07-29-2010, 05:05 PM
...Create one big circular non-instanced zone with a castle in the middle and a river somewhere with forest covering most of the map...

The battlegrounds were fun times...I found them more fun that RvR much of the time.

THOTHdha
07-29-2010, 05:06 PM
Now, why is PvP disliked in DDO? It's counter-intuitive to try to play PvP in a team-centric game, balancing classes based around PvP would ruin the customization of characters for a lot of us, and frankly, there's no real benefit to doing it.

My suggestion is this: Build team PvP raids for end-game content.


One of the reasons why PvP is ignored by most players is because it is very poorly balanced, halfheartedly implemented, and a waste of time. The reasons that none of these 'problems' are addressed is because DDO is *not* a PvP game.

In order to get DDO's PvP system to the point where real content could be added focusing on it would require a *lot* of development time. Consider Mod 8 to Mod 9's nine month type of development.

If Turbine wants to have a PvP game that's great. I would be very excited by that. Turning an instance based dungeon crawling game into a PvP after the fact.... that's just destined to end poorly.



You can start an arena/pvp event with preset teams vs preset teams.
Have a website with the ranking and whatnot.

But that would require some work from the players themselves.

(but if you are gonna do it, do contact support@ddo-daily.com so we can get it more publicity)

This seems like an amazing suggestion! For those who enjoy DDO's PvP it gives them a bit of competitive reward. Being player-driven it does not sidetrack development time.