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Ganolyn
05-17-2010, 12:12 PM
Sorry for the Wall of Text, but there was no simple way to present this.

/crazy idea on



Would people be interested in a new PvP system that took the fight out of the bar areas and allowed us to fight each other in groups in large map/stronghold areas ala Team Fortress Classic? Here's the idea:


Using exsisting maps and/or creating new ones, place a fortification of some sort (castle, keep, frontier fort, a fortified part of a large dungeon map etc...) that each team must defend while at the same time trying to attack the other team's fort. Each fort should have defenses built in to challenge a balanced raiding party, i.e. traps, a few magical defenses etc... Inside each fort will be loot to be raided in locked chests. The quality of the loot will be based on the level of the parties fighting. The three level XP limit could be used as a filter to allow only matched levels to group for this. There could be 6v6 and 12v12 versions of this (maybe even more flexible?), the 12v12 having elite/epic loot drops at high levels, maybe some special get only there items to give the bored vets something new to farm. Losing in these high end fights should be costly to not encourage players creating throw away characters to "lose" to help out others get unique gear. I'm not sure what a good penalty would be with some players as rich as they are.


If you die, your stone must be brought to a Res Shrine near your fort by a team member or be close enough for your ghost to reach it (Res spells do not work), but you will have to wait a few minutes (2-3?) to be able to get back in the action each time. Using a Res Shrine will bring you back to one half hit points and spell points. Camping the Res Shrine by the opponent should not be allowed either by giving newly res'd players a few seconds immunity or by a team only access area near their fort. Healing and Spell Point scrolls, wands, potions, items and spells do not work and there are no Rest Shrines. Some other spells/effects might have to be limited as per PvP play now or just because they are too powerful for arena play. Damage to items is not permanent, but still may cost you plenty. A team wins when all loot had been raided from the opposing fort.


The loot chest(s) shouldn't be able to be camped on for defense and I see two ways to handle this:

1) The fort itself is not accessible by the defending team and they must keep as many players from the other side from entering. Upon entering, the fort is like any dungeon quest we have and you do your thing against AI until reaching the loot, then you fight a random big boss (from a pool of choices I would think) with some nasty mojo. All spells and abilities previously restricted would be useable in these instances.

2) Allow the defenders to defend the interior of the fort, but the treasure rooms are their own instances with appropriate baddies and defenses. All spells and abilities previously restricted would be useable in these instances.



Even More Way Out...


Let us have evil characters for this with new spells and abilites (Unholy Blight would get used! :D). It wouldn't take more than a few tweaks to add in some more vs good versions of spells we already have.


Let us make our own maps. The devs seem busy and I know some of the playerbase could make some awesome maps. The only thing we would need is a plug in to to a random loot generator when the chests are recognized.




/crazy idea off

karnokvolrath
05-17-2010, 12:15 PM
The idea itself sounds fun.

The loot part is horrible, to easily explioted.

Ganolyn
05-17-2010, 12:17 PM
The idea itself sounds fun.

The loot part is horrible, to easily explioted.


I'm open to suggestions.

karnokvolrath
05-17-2010, 12:20 PM
Well i really dont see anyway to make loot an option at all, unless its just trash loot.

I like the idea because i used to love playing those castle defence games. It would be a neat little thing to play with but i dont think PvP is a huge deal in this game as its drastically unbalanced and not really the focus.

GhoulsTouch
05-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Allowing two raid parties to defend and beseige a castle would be pretty wild.

Ganolyn
05-17-2010, 12:53 PM
Well i really dont see anyway to make loot an option at all, unless its just trash loot.

Since no XP can be awarded there is nothing else to play for except loot. Trash loot won't be enough for high end play. I'm looking for dynamic risk for dynamic loot type play. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I do know that it would have to be somewhat separate from the normal game and certain new rules would have to apply. Half Life wasn't set up for PvP, but TFC took it over pretty quickly and all those guys cared about was blowing stuff up! :D

Impaqt
05-17-2010, 12:57 PM
Since no XP can be awarded there is nothing else to play for except loot. Trash loot won't be enough for high end play. I'm looking for dynamic risk for dynamic loot type play. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I do know that it would have to be somewhat separate from the normal game and certain new rules would have to apply. Half Life wasn't set up for PvP, but TFC took it over pretty quickly and all those guys cared about was blowing stuff up! :D

Honor? Fun? Some sort of Ranking system?

Loot rewards do not belong in PvP.

grodon9999
05-17-2010, 01:00 PM
Since no XP can be awarded there is nothing else to play for except loot. Trash loot won't be enough for high end play.

There is NO WAY this won't be exploited for loot. People will setup FTP alts and sign in from different PCs to exploit this. Friends will let other friends beat each other if the loot is good enough.



I'm looking for dynamic risk for dynamic loot type play.

I know what you're thinking, the reward is much sweeter if there is some risk involved in losing. Only thing I can think of is a "buy in" where players have to say put up some cash and the winning team takes it home. Perhaps guild favor or something else.

The thing is, this game is SO unbalanced in PvP that all you'd see is teams of 12 WF sorcs fighting each other or something equally as silly.

Ganolyn
05-17-2010, 01:04 PM
Honor? Fun? Some sort of Ranking system?

Loot rewards do not belong in PvP.


I honestly didn't think people would be interested in a ladder system here. All focus seems to be on grinding loot and ingredients. I hardly hear anyone brawling on the server I play on. Still, some sort of prize for being top dog is still expected, no? The loot part was just the carrot as people seem to need one from what I have read on the forums and seen in game. If you think people would go for it just for fun like TFC thats even better and easier to do.

Cyr
05-17-2010, 01:11 PM
I personally would not be interested in this idea.

Ganolyn
05-17-2010, 01:11 PM
There is NO WAY this won't be exploited for loot. People will setup FTP alts and sign in from different PCs to exploit this. Friends will let other friends beat each other if the loot is good enough.

Yes I know. Would they still do it if it cost them 1,000,000 gp a pop and there was no guarantee of getting what you wanted?




I know what you're thinking, the reward is much sweeter if there is some risk involved in losing. Only thing I can think of is a "buy in" where players have to say put up some cash and the winning team takes it home. Perhaps guild favor or something else.

That could work...




The thing is, this game is SO unbalanced in PvP that all you'd see is teams of 12 WF sorcs fighting each other or something equally as silly.


Limits on number of class/race types in the match and other restrictions could be used to fix this.

Stormwine
05-17-2010, 01:14 PM
I really dont PvP in this game I save that for EvE. The idea sounds good just wondering what kinda of nightmare it would turn into lol.

Impaqt
05-17-2010, 01:14 PM
I honestly didn't think people would be interested in a ladder system here. All focus seems to be on grinding loot and ingredients. I hardly hear anyone brawling on the server I play on. Still, some sort of prize for being top dog is still expected, no? The loot part was just the carrot as people seem to need one from what I have read on the forums and seen in game. If you think people would go for it just for fun like TFC thats even better and easier to do.

DOnt get me wrong. I'm not interested in the slightest bit. But Loot rewards would be too easily exploited. no way to police it, especially with people having the ability to create virtually unlimited F2P Acounts at this point.

People dont brawl because D&D never was a Player Vs Player type of game. there is an entire genre (RTS) and many other MMO's that cater to that playstyle.

Chai
05-17-2010, 01:19 PM
WOW called. They want their capture the flag PVP system from 2005 back.

I dont want this, because if it happened, people would start moaning about PVP balance issues, and the nerf bat would get swung repeatedly, like it does currently in PVP focused games. We dont need 2 / month class "rebalance" patches.

Ganolyn
05-17-2010, 01:24 PM
DOnt get me wrong. I'm not interested in the slightest bit. But Loot rewards would be too easily exploited. no way to police it, especially with people having the ability to create virtually unlimited F2P Acounts at this point.

True. I was hoping to make it unprofitable in some way by making to cost of losing high enough to balance that out, but it seems too many think it can't be done.




People dont brawl because D&D never was a Player Vs Player type of game. there is an entire genre (RTS) and many other MMO's that cater to that playstyle.

Yeah, I was just hoping to give people something to do during content update lulls that they could add to themselves like maps and such. I've been reading a lot of tales of boredom lately.

Yaga_Nub
05-17-2010, 01:27 PM
Since no XP can be awarded there is nothing else to play for except loot. Trash loot won't be enough for high end play. I'm looking for dynamic risk for dynamic loot type play. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how to do that. I do know that it would have to be somewhat separate from the normal game and certain new rules would have to apply. Half Life wasn't set up for PvP, but TFC took it over pretty quickly and all those guys cared about was blowing stuff up! :D

Actually, there is something else to play for .... FUN!

PvP in DDO should never involved loot or XP. I do like the idea of one huge pvp play field with castles to defend and other stuff like that.

Marcus-Hawkeye
05-17-2010, 01:45 PM
Just out of curiosity, have you actually tried the team PvP? They do have levels to PvP on already that are not the bar room... Either way loot is a bad idea, I'd be up for a ladder system for sure...

cardmj1
05-17-2010, 02:08 PM
I am not into PvP but I do like to watch. Too bad we can't have a stadium arena where you can watch the pvp action and maybe do some betting on the players. Winner's would recieve 10% of the betting pool.

Ganolyn
05-17-2010, 02:14 PM
OK static loot is a bad idea, I'm good with that. I wasn't all that for it from the start, but I thought incentive was needed. I like the betting ideas or putting up ante.