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View Full Version : Don't nerf Extra Action Boost



Angelus_dead
05-12-2010, 03:27 PM
The known issues (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=150534) say a nerf is coming eventually:

The enhancement 'Extra Action Boosts' should only be boosting the number of Fighter action boosts. Currently it is boosting the number of all action boosts. This will be corrected in the near future.
That change would pointlessly reduce the power of class combinations that are already suboptimal. It doesn't hurt anything to give builds like Fighter18/Rogue2 a few more uses of Skill and Damage Boost (especially since the boosts from other classes will be at low tier anyhow). In addition, the descriptive text is shorter when no discrimination is made as to which boosts are affected.

As a rule of thumb, it is a bad idea to nerf synergy between features of different classes unless there is an established judgement that the combination is overpowered. It is also inadvisable to nerf a character feature without giving players a respec token as compensation.

Aspenor
05-12-2010, 03:35 PM
concur, fairly pointless nerf

Club'in
05-12-2010, 03:40 PM
What about my human rogue? I'm currently using rogue damage boosts for my level 6 prestige abilities (thoughtburn and whatnot), human versatility for skills and attack boosts, and the rogue haste boost for an occasional extra oomph. So, does the current enhancement extra action boost add an additional boost to each of those three abilities? And is that maybe a little overpowered for one AP?

Tamerlane
05-12-2010, 03:54 PM
not all characters that have multiple sources or boosts gain them from classes. I have a human fighter (defender) that has increased action boosts and it effects my fighter boosts, my human versatility boosts and my defender action boosts.

Chai
05-12-2010, 04:00 PM
Grandfather in all the twf barbarians who had 2 levels of rogue pre MOD 9 which ruled, and after MOD 9 who had to LR into a thf of either pure barb or 18 barb 2 fighter in place of the rogue levels just to be effective, for a free +3 LR...

/signed

Angelus_dead
05-12-2010, 04:01 PM
What about my human rogue? I'm currently using rogue damage boosts for my level 6 prestige abilities (thoughtburn and whatnot), human versatility for skills and attack boosts, and the rogue haste boost for an occasional extra oomph.
The Assassin poisons are a big waste, the skill/attack bonuses are of minor value, and the haste boosts are the only good thing in there. It doesn't appear you're really gaining much from those extra uses.

Being a human means passing up many valuable racial enhancements: no Warforged PA, no Dwarf Toughness, no Halfling Guile or Elf Rapier... so it seems fair that you can get more charges of Human Versatility.


And is that maybe a little overpowered for one AP?
You can't get Extra Action Boost simply by spending one AP. First you have to meet the requirements, which means taking an Action Boost series all the way to the end, even though the returns are diminishing.

Two more things to notice:
1. The message in the Known Issues is not totally clear as to what they mean: is it only applying to Extra Action boosts from the Fighter class, or what?
2. The action boost that is most valuable to get extra uses of is the attack speed Haste, but that's one that is already open to both Fighter and Rogue classes (and you can't train the same boost from different classes)

mediocresurgeon
05-12-2010, 09:54 PM
I totally agree, A_D. Thanks for calling Dev (and Forum Reader/Troll) attention to this.

Greydeath
05-13-2010, 09:20 AM
/signed

nuff with the needless nerfs! :mad:

Memnir
05-13-2010, 09:33 AM
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http://i744.photobucket.com/albums/xx86/EnPsyane01/agree.jpg
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jadenkorr
05-13-2010, 09:53 AM
/signed.

chodelord
05-13-2010, 09:58 AM
pointless nerf

really how powerful is it to get an extra 60 seconds out of 3 minutes boost from 18 levels of fighter?

Only humans can really take advantage of it with versatility and so what? Human fighter is a poor choice because fighter negates one of the human's best traits, free kopesh.

Bufo_Alvarius
05-13-2010, 10:07 AM
Humans dont need nerfs! :(

Roziel_Longblade
05-13-2010, 04:36 PM
With such strong capstones for pure class builds there is no reason to reduce the current multiclass synergies. The increase in boosts per rest from fighters should not be nerfed.

I can understand that not everything will stack, but I feel there should be more of it, not less.

Sweyn
05-13-2010, 04:41 PM
Maybe if they should fix how boosts work first instead of nerfing them. I mean, damage boost IV is required for FB III, but infact, using the boost lowers your dps if you use it while fighting.

Kambuk
05-13-2010, 04:54 PM
Epic Velah actually lets you make use of all the short term buffs that are normally a waste of time.

You can actually use more than 1 charge on Titans grip and more than one action boost and actually get more DPS (although you lose a bit trying to get a Screen Shot of your combat log when you just beat you previous best max crit)

Kambuk

Angelus_dead
05-13-2010, 05:36 PM
Epic Velah actually lets you make use of all the short term buffs that are normally a waste of time.
Yes, that's a special case because the characters must run out of melee range on a predictable schedule, so they have time to hit a boost without sacrificing attacks. But it would be better game design for boosts to have a non-negative effect on your performance no matter when you use them.

A player's decision to use a boost or not should be based on how helpful it could be now versus how much he might need it later. He shouldn't have to take the "casting time" of the buff into consideration.

Tanka
05-13-2010, 10:29 PM
As usual, A_d comes through with another great idea.

QuantumFX
05-13-2010, 11:14 PM
I agree on the general idea of the OP.

However, I think we may be jumping the gun here guys. Notice how the Known Issue mentions Fighters specifically. Don’t you think that’s kind of odd considering that you can get the extra action boosts enhancement from Barbarian, Favored Soul, Paladin, Ranger, and Rogue. I think it’s a typo that’s meant to be addressing the extra boosts given by the Kensai PrE.

Edit: Anyway I would rather see dev time invested in THIS:
The following potions can not be used while raged. They will be updated in the future. Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Fear.

Vorn
05-13-2010, 11:26 PM
...
A player's decision to use a boost or not should be based on how helpful it could be now versus how much he might need it later. He shouldn't have to take the "casting time" of the buff into consideration.

Yes, yes, yes!!!! I hate that it takes time for me to hit a haste buff on my kensai!!!:(

Angelus_dead
05-14-2010, 08:30 AM
I think it’s a typo that’s meant to be addressing the extra boosts given by the Kensai PrE.
That might be the case, but it would still be an unneeded nerf.

Note that since Haste boost is the best action boost by a wide margin, and Fighter class grants Haste boost, a Kensei multiclass gains little from applying his extra boosts to other classes. There's no reason to reduce the boost uses for a Fighter18/Rogue2 or Fighter18/Pal2.