View Full Version : Summon Monster Changes

05-03-2010, 11:09 PM
Some changes to the summon monsters that I would like too are simple, more choice, more control, and more power.

I've ranted many time about have we need different styles of playing instead of nurfing spells or empower spells but Summon monster do need changes.

1) More Choice: Simular to the Create Undead spell, why can we have more then a single choice with summon monster I-IX. Just playing the Main Alignment having the ability to choose a good, neutral, or evil summoned creature would add a nice piece of customation to the people who role play or create a character, and the tactical ablility of choosing a different monster for a different ability for the power gamers.

2) More Control: Could we get a hireling bar for our summoned creatures? I mean they only have a couple attacks or abilities an act very simular to a hireling just aren't humanoid shaped.

3) More Power: With the more control I believe that the power issue of a conjurer would equal its self out.

Again just my thoughts so don't feel the need to bash me or tell me how much of an idiot you think I am. Looking forward to replies.


05-03-2010, 11:17 PM
I'd like to see enhancements that up the level / CR of the summoned monsters. As a level 14 ranger, I think it's neat but ultimately useless to summon a level 4 Razor Cat.

05-04-2010, 12:20 AM
Maybe the relative power of a critter can be based on the caster level. So a Level 9 caster summoning a Hell Hound (MSIII) will get something substantially more durable and capable than the base critter. They currently are only good for drawing some damage away from a pure caster going solo.

05-04-2010, 12:27 AM
i would like to see being able to summon more than one at once.

just saying

05-04-2010, 12:37 AM
i would like to see being able to summon more than one at once.

just saying

Not going to happen...I rememeber an old tempest spine run back when the cap was 10 with like 100+ pets up all time. They changed away from multiple pets on purpose they are not going back. You had people with 5-6 pet summoning items each and they would all summon 1 of each. It was funny but noone in the raid even had to swing...just cast tons of pets. That had to go. The shroud rocks were almost as bad. Seeing a group of 6 people summon 10-15 rocks each. It had to be changed and is not going back.

05-04-2010, 01:08 AM
id like to see my pet atleast follow me :| lately my troll when in the sands hasnt even been coming with me.. not that im too fussed but would be nice lol

05-04-2010, 05:18 AM

especially I'd like to see
- some rudimental commands (hold place, come to me, defend me). I'm tired of the pet running around aggroing half of the zone
- whenever I change zones (from one hostile area to another, like in Tangleroot), jump from some cliffs or swim/dive somewhere, most of the times the pet just vanishes. This seems to be a bug, but a "teleport it to my side" command would probably help.
- a dismiss button!

05-04-2010, 05:58 AM
Maybe just like they have a "dismiss charm" for casters they should have a "call summons" for when your summoned creature gets stuck.

other than that Summoned Creatures shouldn't "need" a Hireling Bar... HOWEVER...

What would be great would be for Rangers and Druid pets to have Hireling Bars... ok that may be a little ahead of things... first lets see some Druids... then Druids and Ragners can have pets with ... lets call them "Action Bars"... or something similar to that.

Also could add in the Leadership Feat and basically have a full time Hireling that doesn't take a slot.

So at most that would be

1 Summoned Critter
1 Pet
1 Companion (via Leadership)
1 Companion Summons
1 Hireling (though not in a full party)
1 Hireling Summons (Also not in Full Parties)

so 4 Controlled thingies in full parties and 6 in less than full Parties

also Augment Summoning would be a neat addition or maybe tiers of it in Enhancements would be better... not sure because Enhancements are starting to get tight on whats required for a "good character"


05-04-2010, 06:28 AM

More options, like a celestial (good), fiendish (evil), and elemental (neutral) option for every spell level I agree with.

Hireling bar would definitely be nice.

I also like the idea of an enhancement line to increase the CR/HD of the summons, or possibly just stat bonuses along the lines of the damage type enhancements. Maybe even a Conjuration based PrC with sub trees based on the alignments, like you choose whether to specialize in Celestial, Fiendish, or Elemental summons, but then that would favor whatever class got the PrC.

The limit on number of summons I can understand. They don't want people hiding behind an army of summons letting them take all of the risks and do all the work and not really experiencing the encounters that they worked so hard to put together. But I also think that people should be able to push the limit if they work at it, like if you invest in the metal companions and the Pale Master PrC then you should be able to have a regular summon, a metal companion, and a skeleton, but 3 should probably be the top limit. Items I don't think should expand the cap because they can be too easily swapped out and abused.

05-04-2010, 08:53 AM
1 more option for each level of summon spell would be great. (but i'll add 2 for completeness, a neutral option)
Wizards and sorcs can summon all types. Clerics are limited by alignment.

Melee(tank or dps) and Ranged(caster or missile) or control summon for each level would be the best.

1) Fiendish Rat (Evil) dps /control via disease
Giant Fire Beetle (Neutral) ranged firebolt
Celestial Dog (good) tank

2) Fiendish Scorpion (Evil) (dps/control via poison)
Bombadeir Beetle (Neutral) Ranged Acid
Celestial Lion (good) (control) ( Improved trips a lot)

3) Hellhound (evil) ranged dps
Ice Mephit (Neutral) melee dps
Celestial Bear (good) tank

4) Fiendish Spider (Evil) ranged control
Normal Sand or Salt Mephit (neutral)
Lantern Archon (good) ranged nimbus of light

5) Elemental - Earth (neutral) Ranged Control
Umbral Worg (evil) Melee/Control
Hound Archon (good) Melee Dps

6) fiendish troll (Evil) melee dps
Janni (earth djinn) (Neutral)
Bralani (good) Ranged Healing

7) Efreeti (Evil) ranged dps (fire spells)
Invisible Stalker (neutral)
Genie (Good) control (air spells) (ball lightning, whirlwind form, greater command)

8) Bezekira (Evil) tank/ dps
Greater Elemental (fire)
Lillend (good)

9) Hezrou (Evill) dps
Elder Elemental -water
Planetar/Archon (good) control (or storm giant)

For sorcs and wizards you can choose any summon regardless.

Clerics would only get one form or the other based on their moral alignment axis: Neutral or Good

05-04-2010, 10:42 AM
One of my longstanding issues has been the summon spells. Maybe it is different in 3.5, but in v1 a summon monster spell gave you a random monster. Random is good. Bogey likes random.

As far as control goes. Rangers (and Druids) should. Necromancers should have control of their undead summons. Otherwise I'd say via a feat. (And that feat would be something nice to show up on an item somewhere rare-ish.)

Edit: Similarly, on the charm front...
Charm : Pink hat / no control
Suggestion : Pink hat / control
Dominate : Blue hat / control
And 1 control bar for all "charms"

05-05-2010, 08:00 AM
I like random also, but without more options, being able to pick from a choice of 3 per level would be fine.