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Angrykhan
05-03-2010, 05:01 AM
Currently i have a 2 ranger/4rogue elf that i plan on making into an arcane archer of 2 ranger/17 rogue/1 wizard. Here are what my specs look like.
Starting Stats (32 pt)
16 str
18 dex
12 con
14 int
10 wis
10 cha

All stat increases go into str.

2 ranger is taken for bow strength and rapid shot. You could take 2 fighter levels instead but i thought the extra favored enemy and 2wf for low levels was nice.

1 wizard is for sp and spell feat for mental toughness, which allows access to the arcane archer line.

17 rogue is the last sneak attack addition before 20 i believe, so 17rogue/1wiz/2other is ideal. I was wondering if i can take any rogue pre's in addition to AA as well.

Besides that i take all the range feats except shot on the run, imp precise shot, and power attack (because im not sure about it), i dont think i have room for toughness either.

Any thoughts on this build? From what ive seen so far with gear swaps i make an excellent trap monkey, im just concerned about my killing capabilities, as this class comes into its own much later. My rogue haste clickies also dont seem to be working with ranged weapons, can anyone confirm this? I was also wondering if power attack works with bows, seeing as alot of range builds take it, yet alot of people on my server claim it doesnt.

The goal of this build is to actually out damage ranger arcane archers via sneak attack damage(with multishot) while being a trap monkey when needed. So far with a silver bow my damage seems to be a bit lacking unless i get sneak attack damage off (which seems to be buggy) does anyone know about how sneak attacks work with bows? (yes i know you need to be within 30 yards)

Sorry for the scattered questions, any help/advice is appreciated.

unbongwah
05-03-2010, 09:36 AM
Actually, if you take a wizard splash, you don't need Mental Toughness to qualify for AA; you can take the Elven Arcanum or Wizard Energy of the Scholar enhancement instead. Although I'm not sure what metamagic feat you would take instead with just a splash of wizard.

And yes, you can take a rogue PrE in addition to AA. AFAIK, the only PrEs you can't combine with elven AA is Tempest or Deepwood Sniper, because AA still counts as a ranger PrE even if you take the elven line.

That said, I'm not sure rogue is the best choice of class for an AA. Remember your ranged attacks only count as sneak attacks if you're within 30 feet of your target. And as you noticed, you're a bit tight on feats.

Angrykhan
05-03-2010, 04:32 PM
Actually, if you take a wizard splash, you don't need Mental Toughness to qualify for AA; you can take the Elven Arcanum or Wizard Energy of the Scholar enhancement instead. Although I'm not sure what metamagic feat you would take instead with just a splash of wizard.

And yes, you can take a rogue PrE in addition to AA. AFAIK, the only PrEs you can't combine with elven AA is Tempest or Deepwood Sniper, because AA still counts as a ranger PrE even if you take the elven line.

That said, I'm not sure rogue is the best choice of class for an AA. Remember your ranged attacks only count as sneak attacks if you're within 30 feet of your target. And as you noticed, you're a bit tight on feats.

I could perhaps take extend if that works with the arrows.

As for rogue, im pretty much looking for a ranged rogue build and this is what i came up with, though i think with sneak attack i can out damage any of the other ranged builds. Being within 30 feet isnt the problem, the main problem is that sometimes i am within 30 feet with targets not aggroed to me and i still dont get sneak attacks off, i have a theory tht perhaps i need to be behind the mobs as well.

Does anyone know if power attack or the haste clickies work with bows?

Also, thank you for the pre and enhancement info, it helps a ton : )

Vahyor
05-03-2010, 04:42 PM
30 feet is a lot closer than you may think, the diameter of the haste spell (the circle that comes up) is about the maximum distance than you can be to retain sneak attack. (The pit fiend in shroud part 5 can hit you with his mega cleave while you are at the edge of your range)

Angrykhan
05-03-2010, 10:16 PM
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=204628

I found a similar spec, looks like its working fairly nicely. Looks like hes not taking power attack so ill assume it doesnt work with bows.

unbongwah
05-04-2010, 11:00 AM
Does anyone know if power attack or the haste clickies work with bows?
PA - no, even though it's a pre-req for Bow STR (wot a gyp!)
haste clickies - AFAIK anything which boosts your attack speed affects both ranged & melee, but I won't swear to that

Chai
05-04-2010, 11:25 AM
Id prob go 6 ranger 1 fighter (or monk) 13 rogue for a rogue AA. Wear a power item for more mana.

6 ranger nets you:

many shot
bow str
2 favored enemies
rapid shot
2wf
i2wf
rams might

You can fit all the feats in with this, still net *most of the available rogue SA damage, have the entire 2wf line for melee when needed, ftr toughness 1 + racial toughness 2.

I know the fighter haste burst works with bows as there are enough kensai AA running around to confirm this. The rogues is really no different other than it being a different class enhance line.

I dont know that this would be better damage than a regular ranger 20 AA, as SA is super situational in ranged combat. You do get trap skills, improved evasion, etc. No precision / imp precision without sacrificing something else in the feat list - likely the 15 and 18 feats I listed.

Feats:

1. weap focus ranged
3. point blank shot
6. mental toughness
9. toughness
10. (fighter feat) G2wf
12. imp crit ranged
15. imp crit (melee weapon type of choice)
18. PA

Cyr
05-04-2010, 11:52 AM
I find that the range limit for SA is actually not that big of a deal if the build is built with it in mind. The main issue of course is the difficulty of lining up multiple targets while still maintaining the most sneak attack damage you can. The other trick about it is that this is NOT a kiting build. If someone is one of those archers who likes to ping everything and run around like a chicken with their head cut off this build really is horrible at this. However, if you ping it all into a firewall or diplo it off onto the melee then you can generally line up shots fairly well. Due to the close ranged combat mechanic of the build you have to build with lots of HP in mind. You will get hit with this build.

6 ranger might be preferable also. It provides some much needed feats, allows you the ability to take mental toughness as a feat without having to splash arcane, and gives you some real benefits when it comes to non-sneakable mobs and mobs out of sneak range.

Depravity
05-04-2010, 12:13 PM
Be sure to keep diplomacy well funded with skill points.
Iirc, subtle backstabbing only works on melee attacks, so you'll be generating full aggro vs. the 60% and down most cookie cutter melee rogues do.
Improved precise shot will also make for a painful decision - multiplied effectiveness by shooting multiple enemies, or aggro control by focusing on whatever the "tank"s are keeping entertained.

Like Cyr said, expect to get hit and plan accordingly.

Angrykhan
05-04-2010, 03:30 PM
Thats awesome, ill have to think about it and compare some builds on the character maker before i can decide. Im glad i came here now though as im still at a mid point where i can decide to change my build.

I think i might go 12 rogue 2 monk 6 ranger so that i can hit the 16 bab for the 4th multishot arrow, and get some nice monk resistances. The only thing im worried about is my current rogue has 10 wis, if i take 6 levels ranger will 10 wis somehow botch my sp?

LargeMarge
05-04-2010, 04:17 PM
Thats awesome, ill have to think about it and compare some builds on the character maker before i can decide. Im glad i came here now though as im still at a mid point where i can decide to change my build.

I think i might go 12 rogue 2 monk 6 ranger so that i can hit the 16 bab for the 4th multishot arrow, and get some nice monk resistances. The only thing im worried about is my current rogue has 10 wis, if i take 6 levels ranger will 10 wis somehow botch my sp?

I wouldn't worry about your sp. At end game, with a +6 Wis Item, GS sp item, and WIZ 6 item you will have plenty of sp to cast Rams Might and Imbue AA arrows. The only thing that you will miss out on is the additional + to your AC and Will saves, but I wouldn't worry about it.