PDA

View Full Version : Underwater Combat???



prowessss
05-02-2010, 01:48 PM
Everyone I've talked to in game has been really dreading this concept.. it seems a general concensus that this is a bad idea and the players don't want it. It seems like it would be a lot easier and a lot better recieved by the community if simple things like the ability to change your surname, the ability to choose from a variety of different "renown" symbols for reincarnated players, cosmetic outfits, bug fixes, more spells, an auction house string search, prestige lines, half orcs, half elves, druids, and just about anything or everything else you can think of, were to be implimented...

Really the purpose of this post is to assess the playerbase's desire for underwater combat. I don't want it. DAoC at one time had no underwater combat, then they added it, and everyone hated it. not saying DDO will follow suit, but I've never heard anyone ever say about any game "I wish we had to defend ourselves while navigating underwater mazes."

Also-- It can't be that hard to add an NPC that charges you 50,000 gold or an item in the turbine store that costs us 4 dollars that allows us to change our surnames... Please allow us to change our surnames. Why would you guys even think of adding something that would potentially frusterate your playerbase, something that no one asked for, over things that are standard in most other games?

Tumarek
05-02-2010, 01:55 PM
I think underwatercombat could be great... depending how well it is implemented. Really like the idea of arcanes being forced to use different spells then Firewall, if that is the case.

prowessss
05-02-2010, 02:08 PM
I think underwatercombat could be great... depending how well it is implemented. Really like the idea of arcanes being forced to use different spells then Firewall, if that is the case.

at high levels firewall really tapers off in effectiveness... But anyway the way to push arcanes away from firewall is not to nerf it or add content that is not firewallable-- the way to do this is add attractive alternatives... Add more spells. a variety of spells. i dont mean acid walls, or frost walls... I mean things like point blank area of effect force blasts... Acid spells that spread from mob to mob and do damage over time... electrical storms that slowly move in a random direction until they fade away...

In my mind when you start FORCING players to depart from their playstyle is when you start losing players. You FORCE arcanes away from Wall of Fire, you're going to have a lot of people who are upset.

Just offer attractive alternatives. AND PLEASE DONT FORCE ME TO SWIM!!!

elfforce1
05-02-2010, 02:10 PM
Well underwater combat will definately be interesting to see how it changes combat. I wouldn't mind rogue mechanics turning the warforged into torpedoes =D

DragonDrago77
05-02-2010, 02:21 PM
I don't see anything wrong with underwater combat. It sounds like a lot of fun.
I would just like to see major problems(surnames, AH search,bug fixes) being fixed before anything else happened.
That's just my opinion, though. :D

GeneralDiomedes
05-02-2010, 02:29 PM
I have always wanted underwater combat, bring it on.

My only request would be to tone down the "blurry" visual effect a smidge.

prowessss
05-02-2010, 02:34 PM
I'm confused... since i heard about the underwater combat being implimented, I have talked to literally hundreds of people in game... The closest i ever heard to excitement was not complete dismay...

This brings further evidence to a theory of mine... People on the forums don't actually play the game and people who actually play the game aren't on the forums! wait then what am i doing here...?

Sweetsoul86
05-02-2010, 02:39 PM
I'm actually really curious about the underwater combat, not sure if I'll like it yet but everyone I know seems pretty interested in at least giving it a chance, though I do agree things like the ah search function would be a much better use of time.

I think the only thing you mentioned that I have no interest in is the surname change, that doesn't appeal to me in any way, I almost never use surnames and if I do I choose something I like and never think about it again. Surnames aren't needed or required in any way so getting a way to change them seems pointless to me. You're actually the first person I've ever heard ask for it. The different reincarnated symbols thing seems like an interesting idea though I don't know if I'd ever bother changing the symbols if it were available because it's not like I can see my own symbols anyway.

Daggaz
05-02-2010, 02:39 PM
One of the worst faults in this game is the lack of a large variety of DnD monsters.

One of the worst faults of the vale (or any other quest that contains water) is that you can swim around in the water with impunity, avoiding danger and death on the dry roads.

One of the best scenes (book or movie) in Lord of the Rings is the fight with the water monster before the Fellowship enter the Mines of Moria.

Underwater combat?? Flesh eating tentacle monsters? Evil underworld fish that exude mind controlling slime?

Bring. It. On.

Aurora1979
05-02-2010, 02:42 PM
I'm confused... since i heard about the underwater combat being implimented, I have talked to literally hundreds of people in game... The closest i ever heard to excitement was not complete dismay...

This brings further evidence to a theory of mine... People on the forums don't actually play the game and people who actually play the game aren't on the forums! wait then what am i doing here...?

I play just about everyday. I think underwater fights could be really kool. Obviously, it depends how its done and lets face it, it wont be for everyone sure but im looking forward to it tbh.

As for the other stuff, yea theres plenty of other stuff i wana see done. Ive never had a problem naming my chars right so the surnames things not really an issue for me. However Ah searches, pre's new races etc are all stuff that needs adding. But why think of it as either/ or. Why not have both :)

Bring on the water fight. :p

dunklezhan
05-02-2010, 02:42 PM
If players can now fight in water too deep to stand, that will even the playing field in Searing Heights where the dogs, pirates and drow can already do this in the experience of me and the static group I run with. So I'm in favour just on that basis...

GeneralDiomedes
05-02-2010, 02:44 PM
Hey for the record, I play nearly every day too. The only reason I'm posting on the forums right now is because I can't get into Sarlona.

Sweetsoul86
05-02-2010, 02:45 PM
I'm confused... since i heard about the underwater combat being implimented, I have talked to literally hundreds of people in game... The closest i ever heard to excitement was not complete dismay...

This brings further evidence to a theory of mine... People on the forums don't actually play the game and people who actually play the game aren't on the forums! wait then what am i doing here...?

How many servers are you on? If you're only on one or two servers you have to take into account that each server is its own little world and even talking to hundreds of people you're not even touching the tip of the iceberg with how many people there are. Also, if you play at certain times of the day and certain days of the week you're mainly going to be talking to the people that play at those times and those days but not the people who play opposite times/days. Too many variables to get an accurate view on the forums or in game unless you're on 24/7 on various servers constantly polling. Gee, that sounds like a lot of work I'm almost tired just thinking about it.

prowessss
05-02-2010, 03:06 PM
Ya know, the water fights you describe seem cool... Really amazing, in fact. Cool in concept, but the execution seems ridiculously complicated and actually really just a hassle and a nuissance to play. it's difficult to keep track of enemies on land and in the water it seems like it'll be more frusteration than its worth... I mean, I dont know how many times i've done let sleeping dust lie but i know that i still get confused when i first zone in... it's difficult to navigate a 3 dimensional space.. add obsticles, distractions, hazards, traps, and enemies to the equasion and we're going to have a lot of very frusterated people, imo... maybe you're all way better at this game than me or something but is it really worth it? we'll see how it works out... oh yeah and melee combat underwater... Ever been frustrated chasing mobs on land? I don't know the math for adding another dimension to that but i can assure you it would add a whole new level of frusteration.

EDIT-- And the surname thing... when you track down the premium services for name changes it states that "maybe you met a cute elf and want to get married" and then you scroll down and it says "currently it's impossible to change your surname" .................... Surnames are inconsequential but have you ever heard of someone getting married and changing their first name?

MarcusCole
05-02-2010, 03:18 PM
All I know is underwater action should be underwater Action not "hey I can breathe underwater!" Also I like the 3-dimensional aspect of it.

Zenako
05-02-2010, 03:23 PM
Keep in mind that almost ALL quests end up being functionally optional anyway, so if a quest has underwater combat as its theme, just skip it. Just like many people skip the PIT for all its MArio jumping, or some Necro quests that have mechanics that annoy some.

For all those who do not like some style of play, there are plenty of people who do like it.

tolana
05-02-2010, 03:42 PM
there are so many things that need to be fixed before they do this. blank social panels, untargetable mobs "shroud portals", mobs moving and attacking while paralyzed, stoned, held. how about finishing some capstones or maybe just maybe putting a few spells on the high end cleric spell list that are useful. or gee maybe a new raid or two or three. how about filling your promise from 4 YEARS AGO and giving us druids. maybe you could fix some of the lag. you also have some issues that i consider game breaking like vip's not being able to log in cuz the server is full. i know a lot of people have asked for places like amerath to be added to the teleport list. at this point in the game it really feels like they need a mod just to fix things that they have broken. in four years i can not remember a single thread asking for underwater combat. this is just another example of the developers not being in touch with the player base.

prowessss
05-02-2010, 03:45 PM
Keep in mind that almost ALL quests end up being functionally optional anyway, so if a quest has underwater combat as its theme, just skip it. Just like many people skip the PIT for all its MArio jumping, or some Necro quests that have mechanics that annoy some.

For all those who do not like some style of play, there are plenty of people who do like it.

I agree with this. but if they add underwater combat, i dont want them to add underwater combat to places like the vale. i don't want to be forced into these things. And I don't see them as a priority. Yeah they can add an atlantis quest line but it better not drop gear i want.

Daehawk
05-02-2010, 03:55 PM
With underwater combat it brings about the question of what that system could be implemented as depending on how it is designed. If it's less straining then the current water movements then it could also be recoded for Air Combat. We already have the Fly spell granted by NPCs allowing us 1 fight where we can fly in the air while we fight(Reaver's Fate).

I say don't judge the combat till you have actually seen it and played it. Then judge it. Could be interesting, could work, could not. I'm interested in how it will play out. Also this should also remove the limitations of all those errors that you get in quests where you're treading water and get the message "You cannot perform that action while in water." and will also remove the limits of NPCs that leash/reset when go too deep in water. It will change a lot of things I'm sure.

Personally I look forward to testing it and seeing how it works out.


To the surnames thing, another thing that could be done about it as prowessss pointed out it could be used for Marriages. Add like a Chapel into the game that you can go to and pay plat + wedding band(yes this item is in the game Sharn Syndicate chain has them) to change your surname. Might be interesting.

Tamerlane
05-02-2010, 04:05 PM
...but I've never heard anyone ever say about any game "I wish we had to defend ourselves while navigating underwater mazes."


Everquest 1 Kedge Keep, after you get used to it, i loved that place.

Neutron101
05-02-2010, 04:08 PM
ROFL!! They can't even fix login problems! Every time we turn around there for a while there were login issues. Please fix all the half way working stuff before you add another half implemented addition to the game. ROFL. I wouldn't mind some water combat in NEW areas that are totally new ideas. But don't jack with the stuff that at least currently works. And fix that server full ****. I have played this game since the creation of it and it is still one of my favorite on line games but they seem to have a habit of bandaiding problems or changing stuff such as the way the human male looked while running before fixing issues that fix actual game play.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-02-2010, 05:08 PM
I think underwater combat is a good idea, and a welcome addition to the game.


They've got my vote to add it right after they give us Druids.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-02-2010, 05:18 PM
To add a little more. I have my doubts as to how well this will be implemented.

I sincerly doubt they will go back and add underwater monsters to existing dungeons. At least not many. They have proven to be too lazy to adjust every quest as needed when they add across the board changes to the game.

I suppose we'll see a few monsters added to a few quests/areas. But I doi not expect to see it widespread.

I suspect it wil be poorly done. I see many problems witht hem adding it to the game. Are there minuses to attack/defense? Will UA cancel these? Will ranged combat work? (no comments from the haters here. ;) )
Which spells will work?

I haven't seen a three dimentional attacking monster yet in game. Even flying ones so far do not fly.

Monster already have up/down axis pathing problems.

And I'm sure there will be others.

But I'd still like to see it added. It's just not on the top of my list.

Pyromaniac
05-02-2010, 05:50 PM
Personally I wouldn't be wasting development time on underwater combat. There's tons of things that need to be done first such as (1) a stronger end game; (2) a new end game raid; (3) Finish all the PrE; (4) Druids; (5) remove DA; (6) Fix the lag; (7) Fix the 7 am EST Thelanis freeze where AH/Vendors etc don't work etc...

Aryuholy
05-02-2010, 06:15 PM
Hmm ok. What I will say. A LOT of things that IMO would be time better spent. Ability to change names, just about any improvement in the AH. Checkbox so you only see items you are proficient with, ability to only see items you can afford, I could make a long list. But if we must put up with underwater combat...

1. NO sinking if you aren't swimming. If I stop I should hover. EQ had underwater combat, you sank if you stopped moving, had to move forward to stay level. Made it a nightmare to try to stay behind anything as a rogue.

2. NOT at low levels when you don't have underwater action items

3. must be able to swim backwards. See #1 having to 180 move a little and spin back around because the mob barely moved so you can stay in position

werk
05-02-2010, 06:49 PM
My greatest hope is that underwater combat is the evolutionary step towards Fly.



Fly has been a staple of D&D parties starting around level 5 for generations, and is something I feel that is missing from DDO.

Xionanx
05-02-2010, 08:01 PM
If you ask me, underwater combat is NOT needed and is only being added as a novelty for some new quest chain the devs are cooking up for a future mod.

I dont expect ANY of the water areas we have now to be effected, and if/when it does finally make it into the game, it will probably only work "Marginally" in a 2-3 quests specifically designed around it. Those quests will be part of a single content pack that will likely become hated more then necro and three barrel cove quests by the general populace, and therefore fall by the wayside.

I personally feel there are a LOT of better things the developers could have been working on.

I would love to be the DDO project manager for a year just so I can direct these jackals in the right direction of:

Fixing the content thats here
Implementing HIGH DEMAND features

I dont recall ANYONE in the past 4 years ever saying "Hey, DDO needs underwater combat!!!"

prowessss
05-02-2010, 09:22 PM
I dont think you should have to get married to change your surname... I just dont see any reason you can't. It'd be a hefty increase in revenue. imo, it should cost less than half of what it does to change your first name... which is 10 bucks. maybe an item in the turbine store that you can take to the druid and pop the ---- Forget what i was just saying-- I JUST SAW A COMMERCIAL FOR DDO ON COMEDY CENTRAL! Warner Bros, man!

Falco_Easts
05-02-2010, 10:20 PM
A great idea and I am looking forward to it.
It HAS been asked for penty of times. Just as there have been threads asking for different types of questing. This is as good a way as any as bringing it it. Could also be a precourser to quests designed with the fly spell in mind. A mountainous quest similar to Tempest Spine that allows outside flying to the next entrance or internal flying through massive caverns sounds good to me.

Yes there are plenty of other things that need work but you can't please all the people all of the time. Whatever they decide to work on will always attract comments of why are they working on that instead of what I want.

Chaosprism
05-03-2010, 05:44 AM
The tomb of the shadowguard would actually be very scary if the wraiths suddenly discovered the 3rd dimension and came after you through the water. They're unphased by the water, unslowed.

Fire damage is all but removed underwater, wraiths are immune to cold anyway, acid is weakened a lot underwater, electricity is the only thing that's effective and it tends to hit groups.
Bludgeoning and Slashing damage is reduced heavily, piercing works but not missile file.
it's a very different place.


I'm sure initially we'll see specific quests with underwater combat, before they go retrofit old quests with u/w combat and creatures that can function there.

U/w combat will make the swim skill not a stat to be avoided all the time by all but evasion characters wanting to do the crucible swim.


I'd love to see a mission where you have to swim and lure some u/w beastie into the jaws of a trap.

Talon_Moonshadow
05-03-2010, 05:46 AM
A great idea and I am looking forward to it.
It HAS been asked for penty of times. Just as there have been threads asking for different types of questing. This is as good a way as any as bringing it it. Could also be a precourser to quests designed with the fly spell in mind. A mountainous quest similar to Tempest Spine that allows outside flying to the next entrance or internal flying through massive caverns sounds good to me.

Yes there are plenty of other things that need work but you can't please all the people all of the time. Whatever they decide to work on will always attract comments of why are they working on that instead of what I want.

Yep. Underwater combat has been asked for on these forums many times. Not as often as Druids have been asked for, but it has been asked for.

I think Fly should;ve been part of the game from the beginning too. Especially from what I understand about Eberron....being high magic.

But it would serious affect certain quests. Although those quests could be changed by adding forcefields above us. Or gravity effects. Or United Giant Nation imposed "no fly" zones...

Certainly it would require a lot of work, and the bug list would grow. People would always be finding places they could fly to that they shouldn't.

But somehow I'll bet those quests would get fixed rapidly.

Anyway, I want UW combat. But I want other things more. And I predict problems with it.

Zenako
05-03-2010, 11:18 AM
Certainly it would require a lot of work, and the bug list would grow. People would always be finding places they could fly to that they shouldn't.
.

Hmmm, Flying in the desert. How to control that. Let EVERY GNOLL archer SPOT you and open fire. That would keep that one down a bit.:eek:

Seriously thou, flying becomes a HUGE issue for Explorer area design. Most dungeons already have a vertical cap over the passage ways, so all flying would do is move you up to the top of the hallway. A few of them would be very very easy to exploit however (Tor front sides) if you could fly. Kinda like how easy it is to kill the Reaver once you can fly and he can no longer hit you. Fly in fact would be a LOT more problematic than underwater, simple due to the fact that all quests already allow for underwater MOVEMENT, just no combat. So all they are changing is really one aspect of the setting. (A non-trivial aspect, but still just an aspect.)