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Kothaufen
04-27-2010, 08:03 PM
What is the TWF Ranger Build with the highest DPS?
I am kinda new to this game and would really like link to a very good or even better one of the best Melee Ranger Builds.

grodon9999
04-28-2010, 08:00 AM
The Exploiter: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=168687

I have one, it is awesome. Almost feels like cheating at times. Really needs a 32-point build to work. Great DPS (not tops but tops for a Ranger), great AC potential, and rogue skills.

IMHO going max STR on a Ranger is a waste, you almost gimp yourself for that extra +1 to-hit/damage.

78mackson
04-28-2010, 08:18 AM
highest dps..

WF
18ranger/1barb/1fighter

Rydin_Dirtay
04-28-2010, 02:37 PM
IMHO going max STR on a Ranger is a waste, you almost gimp yourself for that extra +1 to-hit/damage.

In other words, you are saying that in your opinion, it's not a good idea to go 18 STR (on a human), and then have lesser stats in WIS, DEX etc. on an Exploiter build? If so, then I agree. The nature of the Exploiter build pretty much requires that it have reasonable scores in certain key stats.

In my opinion, it's far better to start with, say, 16-17 STR, and put those points toward WIS/CON/DEX/INT so that you can have AC (Wis or Dex), or INT (skill pts) or CON (hp).

If that's what you're gettin at Grodon, I am in agreement.

On my Halfling 18/1/1, I started with 15 STR (almost max on a halfling) but, I did not go 16. I wanted my 14 WIS (22 at high level) and I wanted my 12 INT (for points)

(nods) :)

grodon9999
04-28-2010, 03:34 PM
In other words, you are saying that in your opinion, it's not a good idea to go 18 STR (on a human), and then have lesser stats in WIS, DEX etc. on an Exploiter build? If so, then I agree. The nature of the Exploiter build pretty much requires that it have reasonable scores in certain key stats.

In my opinion, it's far better to start with, say, 16-17 STR, and put those points toward WIS/CON/DEX/INT so that you can have AC (Wis or Dex), or INT (skill pts) or CON (hp).

If that's what you're gettin at Grodon, I am in agreement.

On my Halfling 18/1/1, I started with 15 STR (almost max on a halfling) but, I did not go 16. I wanted my 14 WIS (22 at high level) and I wanted my 12 INT (for points)

(nods) :)

Pretty much, the Human exploiter is:

S 15
D 15
C 14
I 12
W 14
C 8


Max STR is:

S 18
D 14 (Need at least 13 for Dodge)
C 16 (might as well, you're gonna get hit all the time)
I 8 (What rogue skills? Forget AC)
W 8 (Why take the monk level, can barely cast a spell)
C 8

My Exploiter's got a 28 STR (3 months old, not geared to the gills yet), with the same variables and gear the 18 starting STR ranger would have 32 at 20th level. You lose too much for that extra +2 to-hit/damage. if you're pursuit is Max-DPS at all cost Ranger isn't your class anyway.

Rydin_Dirtay
04-28-2010, 04:33 PM
My Exploiter's got a 28 STR (3 months old, not geared to the gills yet), with the same variables and gear the 18 starting STR ranger would have 32 at 20th level. You lose too much for that extra +2 to-hit/damage. if you're pursuit is Max-DPS at all cost Ranger isn't your class anyway.

You're probably

16 + 5 levelups +6 item +1 human = 28 STR + +2 rage +2 rams +2 DP +2 tome = 36 STR with common clickies

My halfling 18/1/1 is only about 2 weeks old, and is presently 11/1, started with 15 STR.
Here is how his STR will work out

15 + 5 levelups +6 item = 26 STR +2 rage +2 DP +2 rams +2 tome = 34 STR (and that's without any uber STR items)

Mid 30's is pretty good. It's not like we're raging Barbs or Fighters :)

grodon9999
04-28-2010, 11:43 PM
You're probably

16 + 5 levelups +6 item +1 human = 28 STR + +2 rage +2 rams +2 DP +2 tome = 36 STR with common clickies

My halfling 18/1/1 is only about 2 weeks old, and is presently 11/1, started with 15 STR.
Here is how his STR will work out

15 + 5 levelups +6 item = 26 STR +2 rage +2 DP +2 rams +2 tome = 34 STR (and that's without any uber STR items)

Mid 30's is pretty good. It's not like we're raging Barbs or Fighters :)

I'm typically at 34-36 STR during a raid with an un-buffed 28. It's fine.

Aerendil
04-30-2010, 07:57 AM
highest dps..

WF
18ranger/1barb/1fighter

I'd alter that to 18 ranger / 1 barb / 1 rogue if you don't need that extra feat.
Then throw in the pastlife Rogue feat.

d6+3 +10 (pastlife) +8 (tharne's) +11 (FE) +5 (PA) +5 (wpn enhancement).
total = d6+42 SA damage, not including any STR damage at all or regular weapon damage.
Throw in Inspire Courage from a bard, and you're at d6+50 SA damage (again, not including STR / wpn damage).

Throw in Chaotic alignment (no monk splash) and twin epic chaosblades, swinging at Tempest III speed...

Azmich
04-30-2010, 08:40 AM
Pretty much, the Human exploiter is:

S 15
D 15
C 14
I 12
W 14
C 8


Max STR is:

S 18
D 14 (Need at least 13 for Dodge)
C 16 (might as well, you're gonna get hit all the time)
I 8 (What rogue skills? Forget AC)
W 8 (Why take the monk level, can barely cast a spell)
C 8

My Exploiter's got a 28 STR (3 months old, not geared to the gills yet), with the same variables and gear the 18 starting STR ranger would have 32 at 20th level. You lose too much for that extra +2 to-hit/damage. if you're pursuit is Max-DPS at all cost Ranger isn't your class anyway.

I'm still new and I still have trouble understanding this game sometimes. How does Intelligence affect AC?

grodon9999
04-30-2010, 08:45 AM
I'd alter that to 18 ranger / 1 barb / 1 rogue if you don't need that extra feat.
Then throw in the pastlife Rogue feat.

d6+3 +10 (pastlife) +8 (tharne's) +11 (FE) +5 (PA) +5 (wpn enhancement).
total = d6+42 SA damage, not including any STR damage at all or regular weapon damage.
Throw in Inspire Courage from a bard, and you're at d6+50 SA damage (again, not including STR / wpn damage).

Throw in Chaotic alignment (no monk splash) and twin epic chaosblades, swinging at Tempest III speed...

That does sound sick, but if max DPS is goal through wouldn't a 12/6/2 Tempest-Kensai be better off? 18 or 20 Ranger levels are for versatility.

grodon9999
04-30-2010, 08:47 AM
I'm still new and I still have trouble understanding this game sometimes. How does Intelligence affect AC?

You need 13 INT to take the Combat Expertise feat. This allows you to give up 5 points of to-hit for 5 AC.

78mackson
04-30-2010, 10:02 AM
I'd alter that to 18 ranger / 1 barb / 1 rogue if you don't need that extra feat.
Then throw in the pastlife Rogue feat.

d6+3 +10 (pastlife) +8 (tharne's) +11 (FE) +5 (PA) +5 (wpn enhancement).
total = d6+42 SA damage, not including any STR damage at all or regular weapon damage.
Throw in Inspire Courage from a bard, and you're at d6+50 SA damage (again, not including STR / wpn damage).

Throw in Chaotic alignment (no monk splash) and twin epic chaosblades, swinging at Tempest III speed...

well.. 1 rogue, no matter how you put it, is just 1d6+3 dmg SA + UMD skill...(the other modifiers can be obtained by any non-rogue toon) and a WF couldn´t afford the extra rogue feat anyway without total gimpage of HP.

Sure SA dmg is good n all.. but if it isnt as reliable as straight up dmg.. and ... On a WF-ranger(with -9PA) I´d personally go for anything that increases your To-Hit. BAB 20 is also ~2% faster. That x-tra feat I would use for Maximize(insta heal) adds DPS in tight spots and overall self reliance..

78mackson
04-30-2010, 10:04 AM
You need 13 INT to take the Combat Expertise feat. This allows you to give up 5 points of to-hit for 5 AC.

CE on a ranger is kinda stupid. This have been explained countless of times.

grodon9999
04-30-2010, 10:07 AM
CE on a ranger is kinda stupid. This have been explained countless of times.

Where has this been explained, have you seen the Exploiter build? I lprefer to be missed while vorpalling in Amrath, it's kinda fun to run into a room with a zillion othons and just laugh as they die. I guess you like being hit when it's easily avoidable?

I like have both CE and PA, both are situationally useful. Typically it's CE against trash because I'm either vorpalling or using stat-damagers, PA against red-named.

grodon9999
04-30-2010, 10:09 AM
Sure SA dmg is good n all.. but if it isnt as reliable as straight up dmg.. and ... On a WF-ranger(with -9PA) I´d personally go for anything that increases your To-Hit. BAB 20 is also ~2% faster. That x-tra feat I would use for Maximize(insta heal) adds DPS in tight spots and overall self reliance..

Stupid question - can you hit in Epic with a -9 PA on a Ranger? kensais and barbs get higher STR and specialization bonuses that make up for this. With a a good bard I can leave PA on and still hit realiably but I don't have the Tempest ToD set yet.

I totally understand the value of a "DPS at all costs" build. I just don't understand why you'd pick Ranger 18/1/1 for this. A guy I group with often has a "monster" and I know he puts out more damage than I can because or his seeker and other bonuses.

Sweyn
04-30-2010, 10:19 AM
CE on a ranger is kinda stupid. This have been explained countless of times.

lol...

78mackson
04-30-2010, 10:28 AM
Stupid question - can you hit in Epic with a -9 PA on a Ranger? kensais and barbs get higher STR and specialization bonuses that make up for this. With a a good bard I can leave PA on and still hit realiably but I don't have the Tempest ToD set yet.

I totally understand the value of a "DPS at all costs" build. I just don't understand why you'd pick Ranger 18/1/1 for this. A guy I group with often has a "monster" and I know he puts out more damage than I can because or his seeker and other bonuses.

If I can hit in epic with -9 PA? If an max geared exploiter can hit in EPIC then definatly yes, if not, then no.

1. He asks for a ranger DPS build so 11+ lvls in ranger is a must I guess.
2. Yes this build will be slightly lower in DPS then a monster build. Very-very marginally behind..
2.1 Personally. I like rangers over the "monster"... as a ranger all u need is a bardsong.. can´t say the same about a monster build..

and here is the discussion about the dead horse(CE)..
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=192446&page=2

grodon9999
04-30-2010, 10:37 AM
and here is the discussion about the dead horse(CE)..
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=192446&page=2

This is a good build but I disagree with this build being better than the Exploiter. Full rogue skills are very useful and I think his CON is too low.

78mackson
04-30-2010, 11:00 AM
This is a good build but I disagree with this build being better than the Exploiter. Full rogue skills are very useful and I think his CON is too low.

Thats a matter of taste.. I haven´t played for 4-6 months so perhaps traps is something ppl dont skip anymore...(Allthou I doubt it)

12 Con toon can have well over 600hp if its human. I have a picture of a 12(start) Con bard with 595hp.

Exploiter was kinda old skool even when it came out.. just the thought of "replacing a rogue" with a "dps" is kinda laughable... scroll healing? come off it.. u got 450+ SP on something.. 40% heal enhancement + CSW is there for a reason... The CE-trap(99% of the time should be spent in PA-mode)...

when I read about epics I think that Yarhova is yesterdays news aswell.. blowing way to much gear on worthless AC...

grodon9999
04-30-2010, 02:38 PM
when I read about epics I think that Yarhova is yesterdays news aswell.. blowing way to much gear on worthless AC...

I can speak from experience, the Exploiter is NOT gimped in Epic. Most of what it can do doesn't work there but you can hit the targets and cause them a lot of damage. Rangers just aren't top DPS, they're very good DPS but if top DPS is your goal shop elsewhere.

AC isn't worthless in 95% of content, a monk-splashed ranger can get meaningful AC with minimal effort.

78mackson
05-02-2010, 11:43 AM
AC isn't worthless in 95% of content...

depends on what u do with your toon, I guess.. if all u do is raid + epic, then that 5% of the content is more or less 99% of the content..

I had an all equiped 18/1/1 build.. with high AC(~70 ac/pa-mode/quicken + empower heal feated..).. was it good? Yes. But truth be told... it lacked the rock n roll I found in other builds..

grodon9999
05-03-2010, 09:12 AM
depends on what u do with your toon, I guess.. if all u do is raid + epic, then that 5% of the content is more or less 99% of the content..

I had an all equiped 18/1/1 build.. with high AC(~70 ac/pa-mode/quicken + empower heal feated..).. was it good? Yes. But truth be told... it lacked the rock n roll I found in other builds..

Me personally, I like getting missed in raids :)

Those other toons, were they rangers? i'm not disputing that a "DPS at all costs" toon can't be awesome, thery are great editions to any party/raid. I'm just thinking that if that's what you want a mosty-ranger isn't what you should be looking for. You'll bet more DPS out of a full-fighter Kensai, Monster build, or Frenzied berserker.

The STR-based Exploiter-Ranger is great because it can get grade B+ DPS while have some spells and defensive capabilities. It just shouldn't be were you look for a DPS-only build.