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SirAppleheart
04-26-2010, 03:05 AM
Hello everyone,

It has been a rather long time since I last played DDO, so I was hoping for some assistance and feedback on a rather basic build I wanted to try playing.


Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Nauglemire Pebblehead
Level 20 Lawful Good Halfling Male
(2 Fighter \ 18 Rogue)
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 0
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 22
Will: 8

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Strength 12 14 14
Dexterity 18 25 30
Constitution 14 16 16
Intelligence 14 16 16
Wisdom 10 12 12
Charisma 10 12 12

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

Starting Ending Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20) (Level 20)
Balance 8 25 26
Bluff 0 1 9
Concentration 2 3 4
Diplomacy 4 24 25
Disable Device 6 26 27
Haggle 0 1 2
Heal 0 1 4
Hide 6 25 36
Intimidate 0 1 2
Jump 2 14 17
Listen 2 17 20
Move Silently 8 25 36
Open Lock 8 33 34
Perform n/a n/a n/a
Repair 2 3 4
Search 6 26 27
Spot 4 24 25
Swim 1 2 3
Tumble 7 30 31
Use Magic Device 4 24 25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Finesse


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Jump (+5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Healing


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Cripling Strike
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin II
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV
Enhancement: Rogue Hide I
Enhancement: Rogue Hide II
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Move Silently II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I




Hardly anything unique. I just want the sneaky lockpicky and trap disarmy goodness of being a rogue, with some hopefully decent damage output from TWF, and with the extra survival from the Dragonmarks.

Am I spreading myself too thin with this idea, or does this actually work? Would STR-build work better?

Thanks in advance.

Stonen
04-26-2010, 03:22 AM
You will seriously lack dps against non sneak attackable targets. You'd want power attack to compensate for this, but you will need all your feats as it is now. Healing marks can be nice. If you wanna keep them, I'd go strength based and replace power attack for weapon finesse.

You dont need that much sneak attack accuracy, if at all. I would invest more in the halfling guile and cunning, for the extra damage. You get extra to hit from this too.

Otherwise decent build.

honkuimushi
04-26-2010, 03:31 AM
It looks pretty solid to me. I would like to fit Power Attack in there somewhere, but I really don't see any feat I would trade for it. Going Str based would give you the extra feat, but between the halfling penalty to Str and the halfling bonus to Dex combined with the Rogue and Halfling Dex enhancements, you're looking at a difference of 4 or 5 in to hit. When you combine that with the Rogue BAB and Power Attack, you may miss enough that Power Attack isn't worth it.

It would really help your damage on the finesse build, but you don't have the feat. It's more situational on the Str build, but you do have the feat. Either way, good luck and welcome back.

kelemvelor
04-26-2010, 03:40 AM
Finesse is probably more acceptable to rogues than any other classes as their primary damage is from sneak attack anyway and the dex boost from a high dex does help with reflex saves (and some traps you have to jump through them to get to the box). The decision between strength and dex builds for rogues is primary for taste for the player and is not that critical as opposed to str or dex builds for other classes.

I do agree with Power attack though irregardless of which build you do go (str or dex) as it is a flat 5 dmg per weapon and it adds up for twf builds. Also I would think that the 4 points in boosting wisdom and charisma would be better used in either upping strength or con by 2.

unbongwah
04-26-2010, 11:15 AM
I'm not convinced the `Marks are worth the feat cost on a pure-ish rogue. You won't have any metamagic feats or healing enhs to boost their effectiveness; and your UMD will eventually be high enough that you can use Cure wands & Heal scrolls on yourself. But if you do want them, I would try to take them ASAP; waiting until lvl 18 to get the Greater mark renders it almost pointless.

I also agree you should go for Power Attack, though I don't know what feat to sacrifice to get it.

If you were willing to do an Acrobat build instead, what about rogue 16 / monk 2 / fighter 2? The extra feats from monk would really help out; and the WIS AC boost wouldn't be bad either.

SirAppleheart
04-26-2010, 01:40 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys, it is most appreciated.

So would you say that Power Attack is needed on a STR based rogue too? And would STR based be better instead?

If I drop the Marks I could take two ranger levels instead of fighter, and still have feats to spare. So the question then would be if I should stay Dex and rely on Power Attack to compensate for damage for crit-immune stuff, or would it be better to go STR with or without Power Attack?

I generally do prefer the utility focus of DEX instead, as you get better saves, better AC and higher mods for many good rogue skills...

hcarr
04-26-2010, 02:07 PM
power attack is good for all melee build and should be taken.

If you want to get to a usefull ac endgame would look at trying to push wisdom some and taking a monk lvl.
Would start with a 13 to make it pay off with tome and +6 item. 18/1/1 rogue fighter monk is a good build for what you describe what you want and comparing to what you are doing. (A good version of this already exist on the forums cant find right now)

dragonmarks are nice but without a metamagic its the same as using a scroll or wand of equal value. The investment in umd to be able to use these is cheap for a rogue compared to the 3 feats.

SirAppleheart
04-26-2010, 02:20 PM
power attack is good for all melee build and should be taken.

If you want to get to a usefull ac endgame would look at trying to push wisdom some and taking a monk lvl.
Would start with a 13 to make it pay off with tome and +6 item. 18/1/1 rogue fighter monk is a good build for what you describe what you want and comparing to what you are doing. (A good version of this already exist on the forums cant find right now)

Yeah, 18/1/1 was an idea I was throwing around as well, or maybe even 18/2.

But you mean that it'd be better to go the STR route and go Monk for AC, or still go DEX and Monk as well?

hcarr
04-27-2010, 06:55 AM
If you want to get to a benificial ac monk splash makes it much easier to do. Its an easy 4-6 ac. You will have to do the math yourself to see if its worth it to put it on your build.

going str vs. dex is a choice you have to make for yourself. if you go str it saves a feat and opens up alot more variety of weapons. higher base damage from str etc. dex will most likely give you a higher to hit and ac since you can prob get it higher. but limits your choice of weapons to finessible ones.

I guess it would come down to what are you going to be running once you cap your char. will you just farm raids/quest on normal and start working on another char would maybe say dex. If planning on running alot of epics/elites I would lean towards str for the better damage profile and ac is usually worthless in those quest.