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View Full Version : Sigh... getting bored of my Spellsinger Bard. Thinking Wizard.



Zachski
04-21-2010, 08:03 PM
I mean, it's great and all, it was a blast, and I'm almost level 5 but...

it is getting a bit old for me now. I think I need a break from him without taking a break from the game.

I'm thinking something along the lines of an arcane caster. Unfortunately, I haven't had much patience with them before. I've only ever gotten one Sorc with Korthos, tried Arachnophobia, then quit that Sorc afterwards (in retrospect, I didn't realize Arachnophobia was such a pain for casters due to NO SHRINES. I ended up thinking it was the norm)

However... I'm actually leaning towards Wizard. Having the SP of a Sorc is nice, but really, Wizards have a lot of SP, too. After playing a Bard, ANYTHING seems like it would have more SP, lol. I could follow one of the Revised builds for Wizard, but they're all basically the same thing, minus different feats and enhancements.

However, some things.

1. Just because I want to play an arcane caster doesn't mean I'm doing it for the big DPS numbers or the nuking. In fact, there's this one game series I like, Quest for Glory, where the mage character's spell repertoire is 90% utility. I like using magic to do useful things. As such, even if I end up grabbing an Ember Greataxe and Master's Touching it, I'd still like spells I can actually use during those first levels. This is, of course, before I end up grabbing those scrolls to scribe.

2. I'd prefer to remain pure, of course.

3. I would prefer not to play Warforged, and I don't have Drow bought yet. Sure, Warforged are awesome, but I'm not Veteran yet, and that +1 Caster level robe helps quite a bit. I'd prefer elf, actually, due to them having some SP enhancements that'll make things a little easier for me. Yes, I know warforged can heal themselves. Yes, I know this is really handy. I'm not interested in a self-healing class, though.

4. Any other tips would be nice.

DavionFuxa
04-21-2010, 08:16 PM
Tip - Play a character at least to level 6 or 7 so that you can get a prestige class or in the Wizards case, the Firewall. That goes for your Bard too but you can come back to play that later, a break is always fine.

Elf is fine for a Wizard. You should try rolling it and getting to level 7 to get a real feel for the class and it won't be until level 7 that you will really be able to inflict the DPS that Wizards get sought for anyway.

As a Wizard you should be fine with spells. Wizards can try out different spells as you probably know so you can just mix and match to learn about them. If you are looking to be useful to your party with magic, then just being a Spellcaster will require you to be - People will notice if they get Blur cast on them.

Zachski
04-21-2010, 08:21 PM
Tip - Play a character at least to level 6 or 7 so that you can get a prestige class or in the Wizards case, the Firewall. That goes for your Bard too but you can come back to play that later, a break is always fine.

Elf is fine for a Wizard. You should try rolling it and getting to level 7 to get a real feel for the class and it won't be until level 7 that you will really be able to inflict the DPS that Wizards get sought for anyway.

As a Wizard you should be fine with spells. Wizards can try out different spells as you probably know so you can just mix and match to learn about them. If you are looking to be useful to your party with magic, then just being a Spellcaster will require you to be - People will notice if they get Blur cast on them.

It's taken me like... several days just to get to Bard level 4 (one rank away from level 5). I don't quite know all the tricks to level quickly yet :P

Hmm... oh, one thing. I do have Dragonmarks unlocked. Just unlocked them today after finally getting around to looking up how, lol. Should I take that into consideration?

DavionFuxa
04-21-2010, 08:52 PM
It might makes sense on a Halfling Wizard as you will have some more self - healing ability, but I see less use for other Dragonmarks.

Even if you level slowly, you should still try and level a character up a fair bit before calling it quits on it. Sometimes a character you find initially weak can get stronger when you train it more. Spellcasters in particular are late bloomers anyhow.

Zachski
04-21-2010, 09:00 PM
It might makes sense on a Halfling Wizard as you will have some more self - healing ability, but I see less use for other Dragonmarks.

Even if you level slowly, you should still try and level a character up a fair bit before calling it quits on it. Sometimes a character you find initially weak can get stronger when you train it more. Spellcasters in particular are late bloomers anyhow.

I've got ADHD, and it's a terrible habit I've had since I was creating characters on my older brother's Dark Age of Camelot account when I wasn't even a teenager yet.

The Spellsinger isn't WEAK, I just got bored of him for a bit. Not calling it quits, though.

tihocan
04-21-2010, 09:05 PM
1. Just because I want to play an arcane caster doesn't mean I'm doing it for the big DPS numbers or the nuking. In fact, there's this one game series I like, Quest for Glory, where the mage character's spell repertoire is 90% utility.
You can focus on CC if you want. But you must keep in mind there are times when CC just doesn't help much and you'd be more helpful to your party actually killing stuff. The nice thing with a wizard is you get enough metamagic feats (and spell swapping opportunities) to be able to switch between damage, CC and insta-kill spells. That's why all "casting-oriented" wizards tend to be pretty similar in what they can do: they can do it all.
If you want something fancier, consider a rogue or melee splash. But if you're going to swing a weapon, Warforged makes it a lot easier.

Zachski
04-21-2010, 11:36 PM
Okay, I just tried a Wizard out the "traditional" way of levelling up.

Slapping a great axe on him, casting Master's touch, and going to town on my enemies.

So far, I'm not impressed at all.

Where to start... first of all, I'm an elf who went 8 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 18 Int, 10 Wis, and 8 Cha.

10 Wis was for the future. Will saves and all that.

However, the damage I'm dealing with a great axe is just... it feels weird.

I don't really know how else to describe it.

I'm missing pretty often (starting with 10 strength might fix that, but...), even with Master's touch, and the damage I'm dealing is... quite frankly, pathetic. I'm actually dealing 1 damage often enough.

I just don't see anyone doing this for two levels. Maybe if you had Bull's Strength potions, but I can't even afford inscription materials at my level, how would I afford bull's strength potions?

Not to mention I've heard some people actually recommending any class to do this regardless of the penalties of not having any greataxe proficiencies. That doesn't seem that good, unless you solo everything on casual.

Ah well, Wizard's slated for a reroll until I figure something out.

Shishizaru
04-22-2010, 12:00 AM
Okay, I just tried a Wizard out the "traditional" way of levelling up.

Slapping a great axe on him, casting Master's touch, and going to town on my enemies.

So far, I'm not impressed at all.

Where to start... first of all, I'm an elf who went 8 Str, 10 Dex, 14 Con, 18 Int, 10 Wis, and 8 Cha.

10 Wis was for the future. Will saves and all that.

However, the damage I'm dealing with a great axe is just... it feels weird.

I don't really know how else to describe it.

I'm missing pretty often (starting with 10 strength might fix that, but...), even with Master's touch, and the damage I'm dealing is... quite frankly, pathetic. I'm actually dealing 1 damage often enough.

I just don't see anyone doing this for two levels. Maybe if you had Bull's Strength potions, but I can't even afford inscription materials at my level, how would I afford bull's strength potions?

Not to mention I've heard some people actually recommending any class to do this regardless of the penalties of not having any greataxe proficiencies. That doesn't seem that good, unless you solo everything on casual.

Ah well, Wizard's slated for a reroll until I figure something out.

You will get nailed with a lot of STR debuffs throughout the course of the game, so having more than the base 8 will also be helpful. I think it's more valuable than a +1 will save, but it's up to you mostly. A +2 whatever might help you mitigate some of your low STR and non-proficiency problems if you don't use Master's Touch. I believe those are ML 2.

Charm is an immensely powerful solo-ing tool, use it! Much easier to hit things when they aren't paying attention to you. If you're on Cannith, I can send you some stuff for the Bull's Strength no problem. Starting a caster is always a little rough (until that firewall comes around), but I think you'll enjoy it a lot once you get it.

Zachski
04-22-2010, 01:34 AM
You will get nailed with a lot of STR debuffs throughout the course of the game, so having more than the base 8 will also be helpful. I think it's more valuable than a +1 will save, but it's up to you mostly. A +2 whatever might help you mitigate some of your low STR and non-proficiency problems if you don't use Master's Touch. I believe those are ML 2.

Charm is an immensely powerful solo-ing tool, use it! Much easier to hit things when they aren't paying attention to you. If you're on Cannith, I can send you some stuff for the Bull's Strength no problem. Starting a caster is always a little rough (until that firewall comes around), but I think you'll enjoy it a lot once you get it.

Ghallanda, actually.

And there's too many quests in Korthos that don't have "Persons" to charm. Or if they do, they require them to die anyways, often times just to get the next wave to come.

Harbor, though, is where Charm Person really gets useful.

Hell, on my Spellsinger, during the quest where you have to protect the big crate, I had a huge ARMY of Kobolds running around the place. The Cleric in the party is like "Stop! There's already a large group of them!" XD

EDIT: Okay, I'm considering other options besides Wizard. Such as maybe Cleric. Or Ranger (Tempest). Or maybe even a Mechanic Rogue for ***** and giggles.

Daliyn
04-22-2010, 03:34 AM
+1 for the Quest for Glory reference. Loved this series :)

tihocan
04-22-2010, 05:29 AM
Okay, I just tried a Wizard out the "traditional" way of levelling up.

Slapping a great axe on him, casting Master's touch, and going to town on my enemies.

So far, I'm not impressed at all.
It's not supposed to be impressive, but it should work (at least on normal difficulty in L1-2 quests). Bull's Strength you get at L3 with the spell you can cast yourself.

I don't understand why you would reroll because of this though. It's not like a Wiz with 8 Str is supposed to melee his way through the game, that's not the point of such a build in the first place. Meleeing is supposed to be just for convenience at lowest levels to solo some quests faster. If you want to melee, use a melee build :p

DavionFuxa
04-22-2010, 08:52 AM
It is going to be slow for the first few levels on a Wizard or Sorcerer. If you can't handle that then you will probably want to try out the Tempest Ranger next (Cleric and Master Mechanic will probably not fit your criteria of play).

The other thing you could do is re-roll your wizard to have a higher starting strength. Usually I start all my characters with at least 12 strength to help negate ray of enfeeblement and other strength reducing ailments. But if you don't think you could handle getting your wizard through the Korthos stage, then you probably should go on to try Ranger.

Zachski
04-22-2010, 11:52 AM
It's not supposed to be impressive, but it should work (at least on normal difficulty in L1-2 quests). Bull's Strength you get at L3 with the spell you can cast yourself.

I don't understand why you would reroll because of this though. It's not like a Wiz with 8 Str is supposed to melee his way through the game, that's not the point of such a build in the first place. Meleeing is supposed to be just for convenience at lowest levels to solo some quests faster. If you want to melee, use a melee build :p

You answered your own question. The reason I'm rerolling is that very last sentence :P


It is going to be slow for the first few levels on a Wizard or Sorcerer. If you can't handle that then you will probably want to try out the Tempest Ranger next (Cleric and Master Mechanic will probably not fit your criteria of play).

The other thing you could do is re-roll your wizard to have a higher starting strength. Usually I start all my characters with at least 12 strength to help negate ray of enfeeblement and other strength reducing ailments. But if you don't think you could handle getting your wizard through the Korthos stage, then you probably should go on to try Ranger.

Yeah, Ranger sounds like a good idea. Either way, they're the closest thing to druids this game has currently.

Aerendil
04-22-2010, 12:11 PM
Couple of quick tips:

- SP will be in short supply whether you are Bard or Wizard. It's rough, especially in the early levels. Learn to use your casts to their best potential; shrine often; and carry mnemonic potions whenever you can. The Archivist set from Korthos also helps - it allows 2 casts per rest of SP-recovery (usually 20-25 SP per cast). Good for both Bard and Wizard (or any caster, really)

- melee. On a Wizard, you can melee for the first level or two, but I never really liked it. If you want to play truly "caster-like", get Summon Monster or get a hireling and let them do your work for you. You can sit back and nuke. Charm Monster also works wonders here.
On a Bard, don't forget you can melee just fine. Especially at early levels. I have a Spellsinger in his teens that can still melee quite well. Bard songs + bard spells will buff you over the top. And killing something with a weapon saves you SP!

Not quite sure what you want to do, to be honest, but might as well try out all of the classes and see which one you like. Do keep in mind, though, that classes early on sometimes differ greatly from their feel at end-game. Wizard, for example, is pretty rough going for the first few levels, but at 7+ change significantly. Cleric is the same around level 11ish if memory serves (blade barrier).

Zachski
04-22-2010, 12:21 PM
Couple of quick tips:

- melee. On a Wizard, you can melee for the first level or two, but I never really liked it. If you want to play truly "caster-like", get Summon Monster or get a hireling and let them do your work for you. You can sit back and nuke. Charm Monster also works wonders here.
On a Bard, don't forget you can melee just fine. Especially at early levels. I have a Spellsinger in his teens that can still melee quite well. Bard songs + bard spells will buff you over the top. And killing something with a weapon saves you SP!


Durp, I hear "summons r so bad" so often that I tend to automatically avoid them. You actually gave me a reason to still play a wizard, lol.

Actually, probably gonna get both a hireling and use a summon. I think I may even use summons for as long as they're viable (Although I'll just scribe the scroll for the 2nd level summon rather than pick it)

Also, yeah, I do sometimes melee on my Spellsinger. However, when you're the only healer in a party, you have low SP, and you're trying to keep the Dwarven Barbarian from dying a horrible death, you don't really have time to melee. Also, my weapon selection is a bit limited, and I'm not at a high enough level yet where I can eat the TWF penalty through sheer buffs alone. So it's either a quarterstaff, a longsword, or a wand.

Aerendil
04-22-2010, 12:48 PM
Durp, I hear "summons r so bad" so often that I tend to automatically avoid them. You actually gave me a reason to still play a wizard, lol.

Actually, probably gonna get both a hireling and use a summon. I think I may even use summons for as long as they're viable (Although I'll just scribe the scroll for the 2nd level summon rather than pick it)

Also, yeah, I do sometimes melee on my Spellsinger. However, when you're the only healer in a party, you have low SP, and you're trying to keep the Dwarven Barbarian from dying a horrible death, you don't really have time to melee. Also, my weapon selection is a bit limited, and I'm not at a high enough level yet where I can eat the TWF penalty through sheer buffs alone. So it's either a quarterstaff, a longsword, or a wand.

Well, upper level summons *are* bad. Not going to argue that one at all :)
It comes down to a scaling issue, essentially. Lower level summons are decent; middle ones start to lag; and by end-game, the devils/demons will be snacking on your pets for breakfast.
But for starting out? Hell yeah, a summoned dog will easily chomp through a good chunk of enemies. You can even start getting really sneaky and stealth up, move within visual range of an enemy, and the dog will auto-attack - and the enemies will focus on the dog as a result, allowing you to either sneak past, or throw a fireball from a distance. There's plenty of various tactics in DDO, and once you get a hang of them you'll be having a blast (no pun intended).

As for Bards, yes, healing does come with the territory unfortunately. Like most MMOs, if you play a class that *can* heal, people expect you *will* heal. Simple as that. And as a Bard, solo healing a group can get pretty hairy. Trust me, I've been there too :)
But for the early levels, a longsword or rapier should suit you just fine. You won't have the super dps of a rogue, barbarian, ranger, etc. early on, but you can also contribute quite a bit. If you're playing a backline Spellsinger, throwing out a Soundburst as your melee charge into a room can make for an easy mop-up. Or, alternatively, if you know an area well enough you can run ahead and fascinate a group of enemies, letting your melee pick them off one at a time.

Again, the moral of the story is life does get better as time goes on. For all classes :)
But keep in mind, at level 4 or thereabouts, there are plenty of players that are new to the game, just like you, and haven't yet learned not to run ahead of the party, or other simple lessons.

Zachski
04-22-2010, 06:38 PM
I'm actually thinking of Cleric.

I've actually done less with Clerics than I have with any other class in the game (aside from classes I haven't bought yet)

However, I don't want to do a "Battle Cleric". I'd rather stay a pure Cleric (multi-classing wears me out, actually)

So... I'll probably look for an offensive caster build or something like that that also heals well.

Ancient
04-22-2010, 07:02 PM
On my wf wiz/rog, I was mostly melee until level 8 when I got firewall. Here are some tips:

1. I used a nicked greatsword rather than a battle axe. This or a veteran greatsword is 3 dice of damage (2 for the sword, one fire/sonic).
2. Buff more than masters touch. Bulls strength is +4 str and rage is 2 more. Heroism is +2 to hit. Starter quest gear can get you +1 on the goggles and +2 with the necklace/boot set. It adds up.
3. Spam trip and sunder, with buffed strength at low levels it is possible to connect on these attacks. Landing a sunder at low levels means a lot more of your attacks will connect.
4. Flank! Use charms, summons, hirelings even companions to draw initial aggro so you can flank attack. Even if the pet doesn't do much damage, keeping the mobs attention is beneficial. I have been pleased with how sturdy the iron companion series of enhancements have been, but I also have insightful reflexes and know to stay away from the front of my dog, so I don't have trouble with my pet's oopsies. Be careful (or don't) with using companions in a group... although there have been a few times when my group was in trouble a manafree tank summon was a huge help :)
5. Learn to 2h kite, by running backwards you can get a lot more swings at your opponent than they get at you.
6. Unless you plan to be a melee/wiz build, pick a point where you are going to stop pretending to be a barb and stick with it. When I got firewall, I went and bought myself a improved combustion IV clickie, a weapon of power and started learning to cast spells :)

Zachski
04-22-2010, 07:05 PM
On my wf wiz/rog, I was mostly melee until level 8 when I got firewall. Here are some tips:

1. I used a nicked greatsword rather than a battle axe. This or a veteran greatsword is 3 dice of damage (2 for the sword, one fire/sonic).
2. Buff more than masters touch. Bulls strength is +4 str and rage is 2 more. Heroism is +2 to hit. Starter quest gear can get you +1 on the goggles and +2 with the necklace/boot set. It adds up.

I don't have Veteran status. You don't get Bull's Strength or Heroism at level 1 or 2. You still have to go through the quests to get the starter gear.

Also... Necklace/Boot set? Are you seriously suggesting taking Anger's over Archivist's?

Aashrym
04-22-2010, 07:52 PM
I don't have Veteran status. You don't get Bull's Strength or Heroism at level 1 or 2. You still have to go through the quests to get the starter gear.

Also... Necklace/Boot set? Are you seriously suggesting taking Anger's over Archivist's?

Anger's or Pathfinder's. Both give you and +2 to hit, and you can grab the archivist's necklace as well, just swap it out to grab spell points back. The other bonuses from the archivists set can be found elsewhere.

I does help if you want to melee a wiz at low levels. Same with using a nicked weapon. they bind to account, not character and are usable at level 2. I would get one from your bard for your wizzie. Twinking helps ;)

If you are looking for a drow you might also consider trying to get the favor on your bard first. Unlock it if you can instead of buying it. It's not necessary to get a drow for your wizzie anyway, just up to you.

If you do go with a wizzie then you are looking at buffing and melee for the most part. It will go a bit slower for you soloing that way. Most parties will be happy if you buff them and have firewall, going mostly for utility and party support. I recommend hypnotism for crowd control on him. It has nice range, it's aoe, and it affects a lot of creature types.

Zachski
04-22-2010, 08:55 PM
Anger's or Pathfinder's. Both give you and +2 to hit, and you can grab the archivist's necklace as well, just swap it out to grab spell points back. The other bonuses from the archivists set can be found elsewhere.

Uhh... you can only get one Korthos set because you can only get the quest reward from Misery's Peak once. And the Archivist's Necklace is one of the options for the Misery's Peak quest reward. The only way to get an Archivist's necklace otherwise is to be a Veteran. Which I'm not.

Aashrym
04-22-2010, 11:04 PM
Uhh... you can only get one Korthos set because you can only get the quest reward from Misery's Peak once. And the Archivist's Necklace is one of the options for the Misery's Peak quest reward. The only way to get an Archivist's necklace otherwise is to be a Veteran. Which I'm not.

Hmmm. You are correct. I'm trying to remember how I did it. Now that you mention it I might be thinking of something else. I'll have to check a low level character.

The previous point tho is the bonus to hit can help you out.

Shishizaru
04-22-2010, 11:08 PM
Hmmm. You are correct. I'm trying to remember how I did it. Now that you mention it I might be thinking of something else. I'll have to check a low level character.

The previous point tho is the bonus to hit can help you out.

Veteran's status is the only way (that I'm aware of) to do this. You automatically get one set on the airship. You can run Misery's Peak for a second. Perhaps that's what you did?

Aashrym
04-23-2010, 01:05 AM
Veteran's status is the only way (that I'm aware of) to do this. You automatically get one set on the airship. You can run Misery's Peak for a second. Perhaps that's what you did?

It was. It was on a server I unlocked veteran on and forgot. I think my age might be catching up to me ;)

Zachski
04-23-2010, 09:08 PM
Sorry to bump this lightly-dust-covered topic, but I finally decided on what I want.

Sorcerer. Thematically, I like it better, namely because Wizards have to do all the studying, and it's more about directing the forces around them, memorizing spells that let them do that, while Sorcerers just will it, using innate power from within. Also, the whole dragon-blooded concept is great (Although I am quite disappointed that Dragon Disciple is not planned, although considering Eberron's lore concerning half-dragons... well, I suppose it makes sense.)