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Arcanecantrips
04-21-2010, 02:57 PM
I'm, thinking about creating a Human Pure WIZ and the stats I'm thinking are:

STR 08
DEX 10
CON 16
INT 18
WIZ 08
CHA 08

Should i up the str to 10 and drop the dex to 08?
I like to solo so I gave him a 16 con instead of the usual 14 i put in to my Toons.

Just wondering whats going to be better, any suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks!

KingOfCheese
04-21-2010, 03:01 PM
It won't matter too much either way--but I'd go with STR (minor benefits with a higher str).

Dex can be a dump stat on a pure wiz since you can get your reflex save based on your INT via a feat.

The 18 int and 16 con seem very sound to me.

ddoer
04-21-2010, 03:07 PM
dex is a dump stats and don't waste the 2 points. take insightful reflex instead.

for me, i will go for con 14 and put all the remain points to Cha after max out Int. Cha is for UMD. You won't benefit from it in early game, but with enough UMD to use heal scroll is very important for any fleshy casters in end game.

Sequell
04-21-2010, 03:09 PM
Make a WF, you will be extremely happy you did. :)

Arcanecantrips
04-21-2010, 03:12 PM
Make a WF, you will be extremely happy you did. :)

I'm planning on creating a WF caster SOR or WIZ, I just need to get the $$ for the TP.

Solmage
04-21-2010, 04:15 PM
Put max int, then 16 con, and any extra points into wisdom. Your will save is important at end game, and your reflex save will be fine with insightful reflexes. The extra strength won't be needed, just buff yourself with bull's strength until you find strength items.

Arcanecantrips
04-21-2010, 04:30 PM
Put max int, then 16 con, and any extra points into wisdom. Your will save is important at end game, and your reflex save will be fine with insightful reflexes. The extra strength won't be needed, just buff yourself with bull's strength until you find strength items.

I don't think i thought of that, I've never made it past lvl6 so I'm not sure whats out there (1st time i was blinded was just a few days ago on my rogue, scared the Hell out of me), thanks for the tip, I think I'll take your advice and put those pts into Wisdom!

KillEveryone
04-22-2010, 02:33 AM
You might consider making con 17 or 15 instead of an even number and take the Human Adaptability enhancement for that particular stat. Making that stat even is what you will need to get a benefit from a stat enhancement so and if you start 15 instead of 16 you can free up 2 build points or you can make it 17 and get a better CON score.

As a human, you can add 1 point to any stat. If you use that enhancement on con, then you cannot add that particular enhancement with greater human adaptability.

sephiroth1084
04-22-2010, 03:06 AM
dex is a dump stats and don't waste the 2 points. take insightful reflex instead.

for me, i will go for con 14 and put all the remain points to Cha after max out Int. Cha is for UMD. You won't benefit from it in early game, but with enough UMD to use heal scroll is very important for any fleshy casters in end game.
This ^

Put max int, then 16 con, and any extra points into wisdom. Your will save is important at end game, and your reflex save will be fine with insightful reflexes. The extra strength won't be needed, just buff yourself with bull's strength until you find strength items.
Not this^

Or, just go 10, 8, 16, 18, 8, 8

The UMD will be really useful (and is my plan for when I True Reincarnate my wizard), but the benefits are pretty slight until very late in the game and requires some specialty equipment.

Your Will save hardly matters at all endgame, since nearly every Will-based spell has some protection against it. The most dangerous I can think of that can't be avoided is Greater Command, and so few monsters cast that, and so rarely catch you, that it's not worth bothering with Wis for. If you're really, really worried, go with Cha and take Force of Personality (totally unnecessary, but a better option than bumping up Wis).

Drekisen
04-22-2010, 03:50 AM
Should i up the str to 10 and drop the dex to 08?
I like to solo so I gave him a 16 con instead of the usual 14 i put in to my Toons.



Up the STR...drop the DEX...no question...Ray of Enfeeblement is harsh and cast often and so are fatigue type spells later.

Low STR can get u dead really quick. Go into medium load, u move slower and u lose points on ur str and dex based physical skills and ur reflex saves.

Go into heavy load, now u are burdened and fatigued at the same time...go to zero STR......then ur really in trouble......run to a safe spot if u can make it.

Not to mention it makes looting and carrying your items easier...have any idea how much spell comps, potions and full stacks of scrolls weigh...it adds up quick.

Solmage
04-25-2010, 11:55 AM
This ^

Not this^

Or, just go 10, 8, 16, 18, 8, 8

The UMD will be really useful (and is my plan for when I True Reincarnate my wizard), but the benefits are pretty slight until very late in the game and requires some specialty equipment.

Your Will save hardly matters at all endgame, since nearly every Will-based spell has some protection against it. The most dangerous I can think of that can't be avoided is Greater Command, and so few monsters cast that, and so rarely catch you, that it's not worth bothering with Wis for. If you're really, really worried, go with Cha and take Force of Personality (totally unnecessary, but a better option than bumping up Wis).

Clearly you don't run epics daily as the primary caster or you wouldn't say that. Greater command and hold monster gets literally spammed at you in several of them, and while freedom of movement protects you from hold, it usually gets dispelled right away, leaving freedom boots as your only defence vs hold, but not vs command.

By all means put points into the umd skill to use race restricted items, but beyond that, I wouldn't bother. The extra +3 to umd you are proposing is hardly worth it. Not getting held or commanded when surrounded by archers and melees when you purposely have the aggro of 10 or so of them, together with several casters, now that's important.

Incidentally, the greater command has a will DC of 35. You can tell right away which casters don't belong in epics when running with them.

Solmage
04-25-2010, 11:59 AM
Up the STR...drop the DEX...no question...Ray of Enfeeblement is harsh and cast often and so are fatigue type spells later.

Low STR can get u dead really quick. Go into medium load, u move slower and u lose points on ur str and dex based physical skills and ur reflex saves.

Go into heavy load, now u are burdened and fatigued at the same time...go to zero STR......then ur really in trouble......run to a safe spot if u can make it.

Not to mention it makes looting and carrying your items easier...have any idea how much spell comps, potions and full stacks of scrolls weigh...it adds up quick.

strength buff + rage is more than enough to carry anything. At higher levels, a plain ole titan belt takes care of all your encumbrance issues. I'm sitting at 17 strength on my caster even though I started with 8 strength, and it's FAR more than enough. (18 as soon as I pull a durn litany)

sephiroth1084
04-25-2010, 02:20 PM
Clearly you don't run epics daily as the primary caster or you wouldn't say that. Greater command and hold monster gets literally spammed at you in several of them, and while freedom of movement protects you from hold, it usually gets dispelled right away, leaving freedom boots as your only defence vs hold, but not vs command.

By all means put points into the umd skill to use race restricted items, but beyond that, I wouldn't bother. The extra +3 to umd you are proposing is hardly worth it. Not getting held or commanded when surrounded by archers and melees when you purposely have the aggro of 10 or so of them, together with several casters, now that's important.

Incidentally, the greater command has a will DC of 35. You can tell right away which casters don't belong in epics when running with them.
Yeah, okay. Not only am I frequently the only caster in epics, but I shortman VoN 1 frequently, which is the place where Greater Command seems to come up most often. I get hit with it maybe once every 3 or 4 runs. And it sucks. Hold hasn't been an issue at all as I rarely seem to get dispelled.

Oh, and that is with my aggroing the entire arena with CC and AoE damage spells while the melees, if any, pick off one target at a time. And I have only died from getting GC'ed once.

Even with a 14 starting Wis you are probably not making that DC 35 very often:
14 Wis + 6 item +2 tome = 22 (+6)
12 base
+6 Wis
+4 GH
+5 Resist
+2 Luck
____
29 = fail on a 5+ which is often enough that you're likely going to fail occasionally
-3 for starting at 8 Wis
26 = fail on an 8+ which is often enough that you're likely to fail slightly more often

vs. the ability to self-heal 100% of the time with Heal scrolls. I'd much rather be able to heal myself for ~150 or more with confidence than to worry about an extra 15% chance at not failing vs. one spell that comes up only occasionally.

Each point of Cha more is a 5% chance at not failing at healing yourself, which will come up much more often, so yeah, I think the Cha is more important than the Wis.