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View Full Version : Turbine! Easy fix for Reaver's Refuge



Irinis
04-16-2010, 06:46 PM
Only the very luckiest of characters are happy with this crafting system. I personally refuse to buy this pack until the mechanics are fixed. The randomness of the grind coupled with the lack of bank space for dud armor makes it really frustrating.

Here's a very easy fix in 3 steps:

1. Allow an NPC to identify Eldritch, Tempest, and Sovereign runes for a small cost in Draconic runes (10/15/25 runes). The one you get the armor from would be the logical candidate - he's capable of handing you Dragontouched Armor but can't understand the runes even with serious study?

2. Allow identified runes to be tradable. Got a rune that's useless for your barbarian? Trade it to a guildy or to your sorc. Got the property you wanted? Give or sell the rest you gathered.

3. Make rune identification unlockable by beating Sor'jek - or, alternatively, add in a side quest to gather enough Draconic runes through the refuge slayers for the NPC to study so that he can understand the runes enough to know their properties - say, 300 to unlock. (Still a grind but one with a goal.)

Players have been asking for a fix to this mechanic for a very long time. It would be a lovely step in the right direction.

This suggestion would be fairly easy to implement in terms of coding and graphics and uses similar unlocking mechanics to what is already in the game.

Players should not be able to pick up a rune and know what it is immediately... but that in ALL of Xen'drik there is not ONE Dragontouched expert who can identify them is a serious issue. Perhaps only a Dragon can identify them... but we have a disguised Dragon sitting in the marketplace... it would be possible to have one inside the Refuge.


Additional suggestion that would make a lot of players happy: Different colours for the armor based on the Sovereign rune. Then even if we're all wearing the same armor design it's at least not completely the same!

Ok so it's not a completely easy fix... but would be relatively easy to implement compared to some of the other suggestions.

Jendrak
04-16-2010, 07:12 PM
Agreed that somethng should be done to fix this lottery style crafting they used here but a few additions


Only the very luckiest of characters are happy with this crafting system. I personally refuse to buy this pack until the mechanics are fixed. The randomness of the grind coupled with the lack of bank space for dud armor makes it really frustrating. you do know that you can keep working on "dud armor" by adding more runes to them right? So there is no need to store them.

Here's a very easy fix in 3 steps:

1. Allow an NPC to identify Eldritch, Tempest, and Sovereign runes for a small cost in Draconic runes (10/15/25 runes). The one you get the armor from would be the logical candidate - he's capable of handing you Dragontouched Armor but can't understand the runes even with serious study? was thinking more along the lines of as you use one you can identify it yourself. we can already tell if 2 runes are the same so would just change name from eldritch rune to fearsome for example

2. Allow identified runes to be tradable. Got a rune that's useless for your barbarian? Trade it to a guildy or to your sorc. Got the property you wanted? Give or sell the rest you gathered. no....see below

3. Make rune identification unlockable by beating Sor'jek - or, alternatively, add in a side quest to gather enough Draconic runes through the refuge slayers for the NPC to study so that he can understand the runes enough to know their properties - say, 300 to unlock. (Still a grind but one with a goal.) dont think this would or should be added because with the previous 2 added this would to everyone , with at least some intelligence, to flag one toon for this and just trade the identifyed runes to their othe toons.

Players have been asking for a fix to this mechanic for a very long time. It would be a lovely step in the right direction.

This suggestion would be fairly easy to implement in terms of coding and graphics and uses similar unlocking mechanics to what is already in the game.
rest of posted edited due to previous reasons as to why not. However, different skins for armor would be nice.

Turial
04-16-2010, 07:15 PM
Tar and Feathers!

But yes a way to lock in runes once discovered would be good.

Irinis
04-16-2010, 07:33 PM
you do know that you can keep working on "dud armor" by adding more runes to them right? So there is no need to store them.

Yeah, you store the dud one somewhere while wearing one that has something half-decent on it, or you wear normal armor and store the dud one while working on it for months. That's one extra armor either way. When I went off VIP after 3 months I had two dud armors in my bank - one that got the wrong Sovereign and I can't use it anymore and one that I tried to set up for the next TR I'm planning... and... deathblock robe is better hehe.

After looking at the math on the forums for how bad the lottery really is, I'm not even bothering anymore.


was thinking more along the lines of as you use one you can identify it yourself. we can already tell if 2 runes are the same so would just change name from eldritch rune to fearsome for example

Good point, although that would be harder to implement coding-wise as the flag would have to be added to the character for which runes the character can identify... whereas with my suggestion you just take the rune to the NPC every time and the NPC reveals the rune in your inventory, no need for any extra flags on the character itself, just the addition of identified runes to the game world.


3. dont think this would or should be added because with the previous 2 added this would to everyone , with at least some intelligence, to flag one toon for this and just trade the identifyed runes to their othe toons.

Currently runes are BTC not even BTA. So you can't trade them at all. I'd like the capability of helping a guildie who's been looking for a particular rune to get what they need on it. *shrug*

ssgcmwatson
04-16-2010, 09:06 PM
I'd like the capability of helping a guildie who's been looking for a particular rune to get what they need on it. *shrug*

Don't know how hard it would be to code, but perhaps something along the lines of spending draconic runes to get a temporary ability to id runes in chests - then pass them in the chest before they are BTC. Perhaps something that would last until your next return to a public area.

Swedishchef
04-16-2010, 09:28 PM
i´d like them to just make the runes bind to account instead of character=problem solved

sirgog
04-16-2010, 10:28 PM
I think a future Agents of Argonnessen favor reward should be to allow us access to a vendor that will (for a fee charged in plat) identify runes, and for a further fee unbind them. (Mechanically, you'd do this by having them sell you a 'Tempest Essence of Identification' or 'Sovereign Rune of Unbinding' that goes in one of the altars).

Then, in order to use one of these unbound runes, you'd need to rebind it with an 'Eldritch Essence of Binding' also sold by the same vendor (to prevent people without the Agents favor from using these runes).

Jendrak
04-16-2010, 11:27 PM
Yeah, you store the dud one somewhere while wearing one that has something half-decent on it, or you wear normal armor and store the dud one while working on it for months. That's one extra armor either way. When I went off VIP after 3 months I had two dud armors in my bank - one that got the wrong Sovereign and I can't use it anymore and one that I tried to set up for the next TR I'm planning... and... deathblock robe is better hehe.

After looking at the math on the forums for how bad the lottery really is, I'm not even bothering anymore.

ok....just the way your said it made me think you might have like 10 armors sitting around :D You never can tell with some of the newer players these days.



Good point, although that would be harder to implement coding-wise as the flag would have to be added to the character for which runes the character can identify... whereas with my suggestion you just take the rune to the NPC every time and the NPC reveals the rune in your inventory, no need for any extra flags on the character itself, just the addition of identified runes to the game world.

Either way could work, I'm more concerned with how the proposed change would affect gamplay rather than the technique used. If ya make it too easy then it looses then fun factor. Kinda like DOOM after you discover god mode ya know.



Currently runes are BTC not even BTA. So you can't trade them at all. I'd like the capability of helping a guildie who's been looking for a particular rune to get what they need on it. *shrug*

While it would be great to be able to help out the guildes and friends if you make them unbound then it just turns into the new AH item up for 20mil plat. We have enough of that **** already IMO. I thin kBTA is the best we should ask fo ron this one.

Irinis
04-22-2010, 10:50 AM
While it would be great to be able to help out the guildes and friends if you make them unbound then it just turns into the new AH item up for 20mil plat. We have enough of that **** already IMO. I thin kBTA is the best we should ask fo ron this one.

Only certain runes would be expensive on AH if unbound completely and identified.

The only problem with fixing DT armor is that then EVERYONE would be wearing DT armor. However with the addition of epic robes and armors to the game there will be other options at least for specific builds.

sirgog
04-22-2010, 11:16 AM
While it would be great to be able to help out the guildes and friends if you make them unbound then it just turns into the new AH item up for 20mil plat. We have enough of that **** already IMO. I thin kBTA is the best we should ask fo ron this one.

Good - more valuable items on the AH means more plat leaving the economy (due to AH fees). Plat being rarer means cheaper items in general, helping newer players buy other sought-after items with the plat they loot.

They also can't sell on the AH for more than 2.1 million plat, that's the limit.

Bogenbroom
04-22-2010, 11:53 AM
I'm all for improvements, but I would have to toss a big honking *no* at making the runes trade-able at any time. Binding runes to account would be more reasonable.

My inclination wouldn't go as far as the Op...

1) Allow for identification and rejection of runes as they are being added to armor. (Do you want to at Improved Glaciation VIII to your DT Plate mail?) Rejection destroys the rune.

2) Bind runes to account.

The second option I see as important, because it will help fill out RR groups. If you need a rune on your Fighter, but the group needs a cleric, you will be more inclined to get your cleric if you can move that rune to your fighter later.

Futility
04-22-2010, 12:17 PM
1) Allow for identification and rejection of runes as they are being added to armor.

2) Bind runes to account.


1) No need to complicate it. Just identifying a rune after use will do (all runes of the same type will be identified on future pick-ups). If you're afraid of ruining your armor - simply get a second DT set.

I believe, this should be fairly easy to implement, won't change RR much: will still be a grind, so vets who "did it the hard way" won't complain, still be luck based, still require commintment, just a bit more user-friendly. As a side effect, runes that have been identified should stay identified in the list of runes you can purchase from the NPC. This way you can buy the unknown ones to further help identify the lower tier runes.

2) Agreed. BTA should be a no-brainer.

3) Maybe allow the crunching of T3 runes (2/1 or 3/1 ratio) into a random effect T3 rune. This way you can convert your top tier "junk" runes instead of having no use for them.

Irinis
06-29-2010, 04:09 PM
So after 4 years of complaints about the system they made it worse in Nerfdate5 by making it no longer possible to grind Eldritch to Tempest? Are you kidding me?

ArichValtrahn
06-29-2010, 04:12 PM
Remove eldritch/tempest/soveriegn runes all together. Have each quest give a set number of draconic runes. Use the draconic runes in varying quantities to purchase identified runes from the armor guy.

Anthios888
06-29-2010, 04:59 PM
I would just support moving redundant runes to give fewer possibilities. I don't mind running the series a few times to get the exact combination I want (I mean, hey, a free Disintegration or Air Guard robe is cool even if I'm looking for Destruction or Greater Potency VII), but these random 20% devotion 7s and Improved False Lifes and whatnot are just an insult.

donfilibuster
06-29-2010, 05:15 PM
Some of you may or may not know there's an existing way to identify runes.
Naturally it takes a lot of farming the runes.

The trick is to wait till you have a stack, at least two runes of the same power, so that you can test one and see what it is.
You then put the rest of the stack or remaining rune into a green bag and write down the order of the runes.
If you keep track of what runes you have then you can avoid applying unwanted powers to your dt armor.

That said, it is still an grinding annoyance but farming isn't too hard or slow and certainly getting em all is certainly better than risking the random endlessy.

Phidius
06-29-2010, 05:23 PM
So after 4 years of complaints about the system they made it worse in Nerfdate5 by making it no longer possible to grind Eldritch to Tempest? Are you kidding me?

I'm hoping this is a bug, and not a stealth change. Otherwise, I'm going to regret postponing finishing my Sovereign rune...

Pwesiela
06-29-2010, 05:34 PM
I've ranted about this myself before (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=201675), but I'll just post the proposed fixes from back then again:

Give us a way to identify the rune that we’re looting/applying before we go and put it on the armor. This can be done through the draconic runes, or through character “memory.” Personally, I favor being able to identify past runes we’ve used while they’re still in the chest. It makes no sense for a character to see a rune they’ve used before and not be able to say “Oh, that’s this rune. I hated that rune.” Either give us an option to pay draconic runes to the guy in the refuge to get a rune identified, or let us see what the rune is due to remembering past runes we’ve used. This is not game breaking. It does not alter the chance to get an effect (that’s third). It allows us to keep our enveneration guard over resonance on a ranger. I’d rather do damage when getting hit than boost my non-existent spells, but who knows what I’ll get.

Remove past rune effects from the possible runes we can loot if those effects have since been replaced on the armor. I’ve gotten resonance at least 4 times on my armor. I hated it when I first got it, and I hate it still today. Yet I can keep pulling it. If I’ve discarded an effect before, why should the loot tables bring it up again and again? Remove it from the list I can receive and this will function much like the 20 completions that we get on raids. You’ll be guaranteed every effect within 32 (or however many) runs it takes to run through the list. This does not mean that you should have a standard list that the loot generator goes through from top to bottom. Keep the random if that’s what really floats your boat, but get rid of the 1*32 chance we take on every singe application. Make it go from 1*32 to 1*31 to 1*30 to 1*29, etc.

Valindria
06-30-2010, 01:23 PM
I'm all for improvements, but I would have to toss a big honking *no* at making the runes trade-able at any time. Binding runes to account would be more reasonable.

My inclination wouldn't go as far as the Op...

1) Allow for identification and rejection of runes as they are being added to armor. (Do you want to at Improved Glaciation VIII to your DT Plate mail?) Rejection destroys the rune.

2) Bind runes to account.

The second option I see as important, because it will help fill out RR groups. If you need a rune on your Fighter, but the group needs a cleric, you will be more inclined to get your cleric if you can move that rune to your fighter later.

Agree. 2 really small changes that would provide huge benefit.

ArichValtrahn
06-30-2010, 01:28 PM
Some of you may or may not know there's an existing way to identify runes.
Naturally it takes a lot of farming the runes.

The trick is to wait till you have a stack, at least two runes of the same power, so that you can test one and see what it is.
You then put the rest of the stack or remaining rune into a green bag and write down the order of the runes.
If you keep track of what runes you have then you can avoid applying unwanted powers to your dt armor.

That said, it is still an grinding annoyance but farming isn't too hard or slow and certainly getting em all is certainly better than risking the random endlessy.

Interesting. Ive noticed that sometimes the runes stack. Didnt realize it was because they were the same bonus. That would also confirm that the game knows what the bonus a rune will provide it is used. Just put the bonus into the runes item details.

You know, the another fix (and one that would benefit other types of crafting) would just be to add a way to preview what you are about to create before completing the process. I accidentally made a GS maul when trying to craft a heavy pick because I used an energy cell instead of a large horn. :p