View Full Version : Feedback requested: Bard/rogue 28pt build

04-13-2010, 11:17 PM
Below is my proposed build for my "first" F2P character. I would love some feedback on improvements, suggestions, etc. That said, please bear in mind that as my first character, I'm not looking to min/max it to death. My intentions are, once I have 32pt builds, to remake this one. However, rather than delete it, I will use it as my haggle/bank character. I have not included any equipment or tome enhancements to the build.

As for the play style, I'm shooting for a utility build: buffs (songs)/healing, good CC with some melee capability and some rogue skills thrown in for good measure.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page (http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO)

Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Female
(1 Rogue \ 19 Bard)
Hit Points: 242
Spell Points: 877
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 16
Will: 10

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(28 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 8 8
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 16 17
Intelligence 12 12
Wisdom 8 8
Charisma 14 18

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 23
Bluff 2 4
Concentration 5 27
Diplomacy 6 20
Disable Device 5 19
Haggle 6 24
Heal -1 -1
Hide 2 3
Intimidate 2 4
Jump 2 2
Listen -1 -1
Move Silently 2 3
Open Lock 6 8
Perform 4 24
Repair 1 1
Search 5 18
Spot -1 -1
Swim -1 -1
Tumble 3 4
Use Magic Device 6 26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I

Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I

Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I

Level 4 (Bard)
Spell (1): Focusing Chant
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I

Level 5 (Bard)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II

Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Spell (2): Heroism
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II

Level 7 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I

Level 8 (Bard)
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Deep Slumber
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II

Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (3): Slow
Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II

Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration II

Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (4): Break Enchantment
Spell (4): Dimension Door
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III

Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II

Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I

Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion

Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (5): Greater Heroism
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration III

Level 16 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III

Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (5): Greater Dispel Magic
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III

Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Spell (2): Hypnotic Pattern
Spell (6): Otto's Irresistable Dance
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III

Level 19 (Bard)
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II

Level 20 (Bard)
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (6): Mass Charm Monster
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV

04-13-2010, 11:42 PM


About the only thing I can say is lower your constitution to 14 and put those into strength.

Reason: You do not want to be encombered or enfeebled.

I will take it that you are putting your level ups into your Charsma.

You could find +2 tomes to use(eat) at level 7 either thru looting or buying from auction house or DDO store.

Take a look at the bard form for more information on what feats and enchancements.

Take a look at some of Westly's bard builds, she does some good builds that you could modify for what you might want to play. Mississippi Queen build is a haggle bard Spellsinger I believe.

Well Good Luck.

04-14-2010, 12:19 AM
If you want to CC you will need to have higher CHA. 18 CHA at 20 isn't very good and probably won't land very much.

Your spell point pool and spell DC is based upon your CHA.

A spellsinger would benifit from the capstone if you were pure. Since you are a multi, you may want to consider adding a second lvl of rogue at a higher level and catch up your disable and open skills there and add skill points to other areas when you level up in bard.

Since you are going to be adding TWF, personally I wouldn't be a spellsinger. A spellsinger is in the back CCing with other casters and most casters should be pure. There are a few builds that work but there is a synergy between those classes there.

A TWF type would be better on the line. Think about going WC with 2 rogue. Since the bard gets their last song at lvl 15(Inspire Heroics), you could also add 2 ftr for some nice enhancements.

A bard is a lot of fun to play. I have a blast with my warchanter but she was lacking in certain areas. She had a real high cha and could land pretty much what I casted but she couldn't melee very well(LR +1 and need to do that 1 more time for a second lvl of ftr). She also had both enchantment spell focus feats as well as a enchantment item to make those spells land. Buffs were great and I could party heal. I also stayed focused with 1 main purpose and 1 secondary purpose. It looks like you are trying to do 3 things with your character and that really is too much. It is possible to play but to make spells land well then you need to shift your points around and adding TWF just makes it a bigger bite to chew.

04-14-2010, 03:47 AM
Thanks for the feedback!

I will agree that my initial plan with TWF is not optimal. And by trying to include rogue skills I've spread myself too thin on abilities.

I'm revisiting my build...

04-14-2010, 04:01 AM
If you want to have a haggle bard...

Max CHA, get capstone, max Haggle skill, take human versitility enhancement, every level up ad to CHA, take 3 CHA enhancements(all 4 if you score a +3 tome or make a exceptional CHA item...you need to have a even number to have a skill point benefit), take all haggle enhancements, at cap swap 2 feats for skill focus haggle and negotiatior.

You can hit a really high haggle...70's to 80's.

My cha was a 36 - 18 base, +2 tome, +6 CHA item(Bards Cloak), +5 from all stat level up's, +3 enhancements...can't rember the bonus to skills but it was nice.

Had a....
+23 - from skill level up haggle
+15 - haggle item
+1 - Voice of the Master...+2 if I had a Head of Good Fortune
+6 - Shroud crafted +6 CHA skills/Spell point item
+4 - Greater Heroism
+2 - Negotiator skill...adds +2 to both haggle and diplomacy
+3 - Skill focus haggle
+4 - Enhancement to haggle skill...takes 10 enhancement points.
+5 - Human Versitility enhancement...maxed.
+1 - Focusing Chant

+2 - Inspire competance when I found bard to song me up.

Was thinking about making a exceptional CHA item when my Spellsinger gets to cap. Other than a exceptional CHA item or a Yug pot, I don't know of anything that gets your skill any higher.

I liked my Nanny for the most part the way she was but I like her more now that I changed things around a bit and is more fun to play. I have fun with my spellsinger(even though she is languashing at lvl 5), but now I know how to set her up to have fun and succed and not gimp myself.

04-14-2010, 04:06 AM
i consider it questionable taking 1 level of rogue but not at least a second for evasion.

usually when splashing a bard, you can splash at least 4 levels without losing much.

Thats why see so many 16/2/2 or 15/3/2 warchanter bards out there.

If you are going for a spellsinger you want to be pure,

04-14-2010, 04:52 AM
i consider it questionable taking 1 level of rogue but not at least a second for evasion.

usually when splashing a bard, you can splash at least 4 levels without losing much.

Thats why see so many 16/2/2 or 15/3/2 warchanter bards out there.

If you are going for a spellsinger you want to be pure,

You can take 5 other levels. You get inspire heroics(the AC song) when you hit 15 lvls of bard. As far as I know, anyone with an 18/2 is trying to future proof their build for when they flesh out the bard pre.

04-14-2010, 04:56 AM
You can take 5 other levels. You get inspire heroics(the AC song) when you hit 15 lvls of bard. As far as I know, anyone with an 18/2 is trying to future proof their build for when they flesh out the bard pre.

Yup, some keep 16th level of bard for a lvl 6 spell (likely Ottos Irresistable), even if taking care for future PreIII enhancements with 18 levels, there is NO reason to be 19/1.

04-14-2010, 06:11 AM
If you are taking 1 rogue level, then you really should take a 2nd rogue level for evasion and a bunch more rogue skills. Bards can be squishy and evasion really makes a massive difference to the survivability.

To do all the things you are trying to do, 28pts isn't really enough, a 32 point character (and a +2 to everything tome at 7th) helps a lot. Paying some real money for Turbine points to get these two things will be worth it and it will make this character a lot more viable.

if you are planning to do melee DPS you need more strength.

Too much balance,
I wouldn't bother with ANY diplomacy, you are nover going to get melee aggro.
Jump - you need some jump (10ish ranks or so - I'd put 1/2 the points from balance into this)

I really don't like mental toughness, I'd swap it for Force of Personality so your will save is a lot better.

Haste should be your 1st 3rd level spell IMO, quickly followed by Displacement.
Eagles splendour - get a +Cha item instead.
Where's Invisilibty flipping awesome spells?
Change your spells as you level up. Heroism is fine when you get it, but when Greater is available it should be swapped out.
Remove Curse - you can replace it with clickies and potions
Don't duplicate spells - how many charms do you need? how many mezz effects do you need?

Bardic Crowd Control:
If you are planning to do spell based Crowd Control you need to focus on CHA a lot more and have a higher based CHA.
Alternatively you can dump Cha down a little (to 12) and do song based Crow Control which works off your Perform Skill. Cast Invisibiliry, equip a perform item, run into a crowd of monsters singing fascinate, with a DC of your net skill, nothing saves except on a 20, now that's Crowd Control.

04-14-2010, 06:20 AM
if you want a good haggle build, and are new just take the mississipi-queen.


If you are not after the total best possible haggle just take toughness and force of personality instead of negotiater and skillfocus haggle.