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View Full Version : ...I guess it's time to admit it-- I'm terrified of PUGs



Zachski
04-10-2010, 09:17 PM
And oddly, not just because of all the horror stories I've heard.

I don't like partying with people I don't know. I can't really trust them. And I'm often forced to follow their pace, especially when it come to rushers who don't touch a single breakable (I dunno about you, but I like the percentage bonus EXP. Optionals can go to hell, but the breakable and enemy bonuses actually have an impact.)

Furthermore, as I'm sure to encounter a lot of quests I don't know, I don't feel like I'm given a chance to actually learn the quest. I'm just dragged along for the ride.

So yeah, I imagine a lot of it has to do with pace. However...

I want a solution. I want to PUG. Partying is what Dungeons and Dragons is about. You can't just have a DM and one player, you need a whole group of players.

Any advice on how to tell a good PUG from a bad PUG?

Lorien_the_First_One
04-10-2010, 09:20 PM
Any advice on how to tell a good PUG from a bad PUG?

Stopping for breakables is generally less of a payback/min than doing options (but it does depend on the quest). Just on that one example, it shows 'good vs bad pug' needs to have the phrase "for me" attached.

Solution...start your own groups. Put a note in the LFM saying what your playstyle is (eg "no zerging, hitting all the breakables")

Solution 2... when you find people like you, check out their guild and join.

~Aiyla
04-10-2010, 09:22 PM
Unless there is someone in the party that you've already grouped with before and know they are a player that playes at a pace you like, you never really know what you're getting. Although from my experience I can tell you that you can usually tell what kind of party you're in with in the first 5 minutes of grouping. My best advice to you would be that the only way you're gonna know what kinda party you're getting is to make you're own!

In my experience the party leader has a lot to do with the pace. Make it clear exactly how you want to run the quet BEFORE you get in, this way if there is anyone in your party who doesn't agree they are still free to leave and you can find someone that is a better fit for your group.

Happy Questing!

lord_of_rage
04-10-2010, 09:32 PM
And oddly, not just because of all the horror stories I've heard.

I don't like partying with people I don't know. I can't really trust them. And I'm often forced to follow their pace, especially when it come to rushers who don't touch a single breakable (I dunno about you, but I like the percentage bonus EXP. Optionals can go to hell, but the breakable and enemy bonuses actually have an impact.)

Furthermore, as I'm sure to encounter a lot of quests I don't know, I don't feel like I'm given a chance to actually learn the quest. I'm just dragged along for the ride.

So yeah, I imagine a lot of it has to do with pace. However...

I want a solution. I want to PUG. Partying is what Dungeons and Dragons is about. You can't just have a DM and one player, you need a whole group of players.

Any advice on how to tell a good PUG from a bad PUG?

I love pugging. 90% of my time in DDO has been pugs. You get bad ones every now and then. Conquest is good sometimes. But for alot of us who have played for awhile its just quicker to speed run the quest and rerun it. A good example is Tear of Dakaan. Yes the optionals are alot of xp but when you can with a good group speed run the quest 4 times on norm in 40-45 min with a vom and a 20% xp pot its worth it to me. Sometimes the breakables just take more time then they are worth alot.But if you want do that put your own lfms up and set a slower pace.

Zachski
04-10-2010, 09:32 PM
Stopping for breakables is generally less of a payback/min than doing options (but it does depend on the quest). Just on that one example, it shows 'good vs bad pug' needs to have the phrase "for me" attached.

Solution...start your own groups. Put a note in the LFM saying what your playstyle is (eg "no zerging, hitting all the breakables")

Solution 2... when you find people like you, check out their guild and join.

I don't mean stopping for breakables... quite frankly, I don't think it takes too much effort to do them along the way. It's when you purposefully ignore them that it annoys me. I suppose you can ignore out of the way breakables.

Just as an example... I was running Heyton's Rest (Sunny, Normal, just skipped the tutorial) with this one character. She ran past every breakable, yet stopped and took the time to open the chest containing the rusty longsword and mace. Then she ran right up the the altar as soon as she could and destroyed it, ignoring the enemies pounding on her. Meanwhile, I was still trying to get used to switching between melee and ranged weapons (I was on my ranger) and overall not doing a good job.

Yes, I did a bad job in that run. I admit it. Then again, Arcane Archer requires a distinct playstyle, and I've much improved since then. That WAS his first quest.

I suppose I will start my own groups from now on. Shouldn't be hard to get people to join, especially when I'm playing my battle-healer-cleric

systemstate
04-10-2010, 09:33 PM
Any advice on how to tell a good PUG from a bad PUG?

My own personal method, which has a pretty good success rate for me:

Avoid LFM's that:
- have misspellings (Redwill's Runes, Shankotor, Cerlian Hills, etc.)
- say things like "No N00bs"
- are lead by characters named "Drizzt, xXDrizzzztXx, LegolasxXx, etc."
- don't have any kind of group details entered.
- have anything to do with The Pit or Taming the Flames whatsoever (just kidding :p)

~Aiyla
04-10-2010, 09:38 PM
My own personal method, which has a pretty good success rate for me:

Avoid LFM's that:
- have misspellings (Redwill's Runes, Shankotor, Cerlian Hills, etc.)
- say things like "No N00bs"
- are lead by characters named "Drizzt, xXDrizzzztXx, LegolasxXx, etc."
- don't have any kind of group details entered.
- have anything to do with The Pit or Taming the Flames whatsoever (just kidding :p)

LOL Good Advice. I tend to avoid these things as well, I've been playing for 2 years and even I avoid LFM's that say "No Noobs". No sure why though.

Zachski
04-10-2010, 09:42 PM
LOL Good Advice. I tend to avoid these things as well, I've been playing for 2 years and even I avoid LFM's that say "No Noobs". No sure why though.

Probably because they're most likely noobs themselves? I mean, noobs do tend to be kinda elitist as well.

DragonDrago77
04-10-2010, 09:43 PM
Here's some more advice.

If the leader has posted an LFM for the Pit and asks "What quest are we doing?"
If you don't have a healer, you are 65% likely to fail.
If the leader swears a lot (or not enough). Hehe, just kidding. :P
If a member has a weird class like 10 sorc/10 cleric- Yes, I have seen weird builds.
If the healer thinks he's DPS and the melees start using wands to heal you.

That is all.

Mirimon
04-10-2010, 09:47 PM
LOL Good Advice. I tend to avoid these things as well, I've been playing for 2 years and even I avoid LFM's that say "No Noobs". No sure why though.


Could be you noticed what I deem the hypocrite's rule: The one's most likely to be of that group are often among the first to condemn it. Could be a diversion to try to hide or maybe they just hate the competition .

edit: This post took me 1 minute to write, and 6 minutes to actually post after clicking submit reply. Sorta bad tonight

~Aiyla
04-10-2010, 09:51 PM
Probably because they're most likely noobs themselves? I mean, noobs do tend to be kinda elitist as well.

Likely. Although I do have to admit apart of me tends to think people that post "No Noobs" are rude and probably going to end up getting on my nerves anyways. I think I really would like to meet the person who can say that the first time they logged into DDO they knew EXACTLY what to do and NEVER had to ask a question.

Lleren
04-10-2010, 10:11 PM
Likely. Although I do have to admit apart of me tends to think people that post "No Noobs" are rude and probably going to end up getting on my nerves anyways. I think I really would like to meet the person who can say that the first time they logged into DDO they knew EXACTLY what to do and NEVER had to ask a question.

You are confusing newbie with noob, but thats ok, so are they.

Mirimon
04-10-2010, 10:17 PM
My own personal method, which has a pretty good success rate for me:

Avoid LFM's that:
- have misspellings (Redwill's Runes, Shankotor, Cerlian Hills, etc.)
- say things like "No N00bs"
- are lead by characters named "Drizzt, xXDrizzzztXx, LegolasxXx, etc."
- don't have any kind of group details entered.
- have anything to do with The Pit or Taming the Flames whatsoever (just kidding :p)

Add anything written in AOL speak to that avoid list along with anime named characters :D
If you aren't sure what AOL speak is here's a translator (SMS speak might warrant a warning also)
http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html
http://www.lingo2word.com/translate.php (english to sms speak translator)

Crazyfruit
04-10-2010, 10:19 PM
If you don't have a healer, you are 65% likely to fail.
If a member has a weird class like 10 sorc/10 cleric- Yes, I have seen weird builds.
If the healer thinks he's DPS and the melees start using wands to heal you.

These all sound like fun groups to join ^^

Chances are the types of players the OP is trying to avoid won't like these groups hehe.

Sweetsoul86
04-10-2010, 10:38 PM
Other than the "no noobs" lfm's I tend to avoid ones that say things like "using myddo" (it irritates me that they need to advertise that they feel the need to check every single toon that joins for non epic quests) or ones that don't have any information at all. Lfm's that don't bother to tell you anything but what level they're looking for are not worth my time, I want to know what quest I'm doing in advance and on what difficulty. I try not to worry too much about the spelling errors even though it bothers me to no end, (I only have a minor spelling obsession I swear ^_~) because there are people from countries all over the world that play and they may be amazing players and speak perfect english but have difficulty with some spelling so imo it's not worth worrying about. Anyone who seems rude in their lfm is not someone I want to put up with, especially since most of my toons are healers, be they cleric or bard and as a healer I can't heal stupid and I prefer not to heal rude and ignorant.

The suggestion that Lorien made is a good one, when you find players that play the same way you do or that you have fun playing with ask about their guild, ask if you can add them to your friends list, maybe join their guild if it sounds like it will suit you. Most likely they will at least tell you to add them to your friends list and you can start building up a list of people you enjoy playing with.

Good luck, hope you find some great groups! ^_^

Phidius
04-10-2010, 10:47 PM
These all sound like fun groups to join ^^

Chances are the types of players the OP is trying to avoid won't like these groups hehe.

Agreed.

I'm kinda in the same boat as the Op, only I'm just tired of PUG's, not terrified.

Zachski
04-10-2010, 11:07 PM
On an off-topic note... I've started a biography-log for one of my characters, a warpriest. Do you think I should post it on one of the forums? I had to put it in Notepad since the actual biography in game doesn't let you put all that much in.

parvo
04-10-2010, 11:14 PM
Try joining a static group or even try your local permadeath guild.

Zachski
04-10-2010, 11:28 PM
Try joining a static group or even try your local permadeath guild.

I'm too much of a wimp to do permadeath. Maybe when I have more experience in this game beyond some of the quests in Stormreach...

Arnya
04-10-2010, 11:38 PM
If you don't have a healer, you are 65% likely to fail.

If you can't heal yourself or mitigate a good percentage of incoming damage, YOU are likely to fail. Frequently.



If the healer thinks he's DPS and the melees start using wands to heal you.

Who say's that Cleric or Favoured Soul is a healer? And why is another player having to use wands on you - can you not use them yourself? Or come prepared with healing potions just in case?

You may have also annoyed the healer and now he's not healing you any more....

The worst PUGs are the ones that wait 45 minutes for a Cleric when there are 2 Rangers, a Paladin, a Bard and a WF Sorc in party.... :)

If you are any sort of decent player you will be noticed by decent guilds, just try to be the most self sufficient player you can be. Anyone can afford a stack of CLW pots or a wand. Just stop buying +2 weapons of vendor crud off the auction house ;)

Zachski
04-10-2010, 11:48 PM
If you can't heal yourself or mitigate a good percentage of incoming damage, YOU are likely to fail. Frequently.



Who say's that Cleric or Favoured Soul is a healer? And why is another player having to use wands on you - can you not use them yourself? Or come prepared with healing potions just in case?

You may have also annoyed the healer and now he's not healing you any more....

The worst PUGs are the ones that wait 45 minutes for a Cleric when there are 2 Rangers, a Paladin, a Bard and a WF Sorc in party.... :)

If you are any sort of decent player you will be noticed by decent guilds, just try to be the most self sufficient player you can be. Anyone can afford a stack of CLW pots or a wand. Just stop buying +2 weapons of vendor crud off the auction house ;)

...fun fact: I'm actually playing as a battle-cleric now, lol. Improved Warpriest, actually. Granted, I count healing as one of my important roles, but my role in a party is self-sufficient/buffing melee. I won't do as much damage as a fighter or a Barbarian, but why should that matter when I'm healing myself, the fighter, and the Barbarian, while still continuing to whack away at the enemy?

I do go through this in every game. Try out various classes and builds until I find one that works for me.

So, your counter-points to that guy actually encourage me.

Arnya
04-11-2010, 12:07 AM
...fun fact: I'm actually playing as a battle-cleric now, lol. Improved Warpriest, actually. Granted, I count healing as one of my important roles, but my role in a party is self-sufficient/buffing melee. I won't do as much damage as a fighter or a Barbarian, but why should that matter when I'm healing myself, the fighter, and the Barbarian, while still continuing to whack away at the enemy?

I do go through this in every game. Try out various classes and builds until I find one that works for me.

So, your counter-points to that guy actually encourage me.

Don't forget the 3rd side to the warpriest: spells.

Crowd control, DPS and instakill are at your fingertips :)

Mirimon
04-11-2010, 12:11 AM
Don't forget the 3rd side to the warpriest: spells.

Crowd control, DPS and instakill are at your fingertips :)

In fact I'd rate crowd control as being even more important then healing (epic removes the instakill though) since it doubles as both indirect dps (by making them vuln to auto crits in a few cases) and preventative healing. A heavy weighted weapon in the hands of that battle cleric would likely go a long way.

Azmich
04-11-2010, 09:22 AM
Some great advice already given for trying to sort out a good PUG from a bad one in the social window.

I'd also suggest that once you've joined a group, if before you even start the quest they (the group or some of the ppl) are annoying for some reason, to just bail on them and find a different group. Don't subject yourself to punishment by staying and "toughing it out". We are playing a game and it's supposed to be for fun, not aggrivation.

Also if you get into a quest w/ a PUG and then said PUG death wipes and explodes and just can not get it back together, again, just leave. We all have a stubborn streak. And sometimes even the worst wipes and horrible play can be fixed if the group begins to work together w/ a plan. But if no plan is coming and things just keep going down hill don't be so stubborn, save yourself some aggrivation (and in turn increasing your enjoyment of PUGs) and leave.

And before I get flamed for abandoning groups, I'm just saying, sometimes it's not worth it to stay. I've been in PUGs who insist on running something on elite and the group is wiping at every fight with 1/2 the group suggesting stopping and trying something different, but the group just keeps going on and on and on and eventually either ppl rage quit or "disconnect" and don't come back. Sure occationally eventually 3 hours later you finish the mission and you feel like you've been drug through the ringer and wish you never joined that stupid PUG and never want to see that stupid quest again. And all because you didn't just leave when your gut was telling you to.

Raven-sb
04-11-2010, 10:54 AM
First off, as a breeder of the the dog breed named Pug, I find the title of this thread amusing :-). Now that I have that out of my system, I too am more than a bit nervious about grouping. My nerves come from the fact that I am new to the game, and that I'm going to make a mistake that will bugger things up for the group.

I guess everyone has to learn sometime, and after I've had my first few runs I'm sure I'll be ok. In fact I've run the Korthos quests so many times now with my wife that I kinda have them memorised. So I think I'll start advertiseing for players doing elite Korthos quests and take it from there.

DragonDrago77
04-11-2010, 11:17 AM
If you can't heal yourself or mitigate a good percentage of incoming damage, YOU are likely to fail. Frequently.



Who say's that Cleric or Favoured Soul is a healer? And why is another player having to use wands on you - can you not use them yourself? Or come prepared with healing potions just in case?

You may have also annoyed the healer and now he's not healing you any more....

The worst PUGs are the ones that wait 45 minutes for a Cleric when there are 2 Rangers, a Paladin, a Bard and a WF Sorc in party.... :)

If you are any sort of decent player you will be noticed by decent guilds, just try to be the most self sufficient player you can be. Anyone can afford a stack of CLW pots or a wand. Just stop buying +2 weapons of vendor crud off the auction house ;)

That's all true, sir. I was just trying to point out that sometimes people don't do what their build was intended for. Not trying to say that clerics and FvS are defined as healers, and that melees can't have wands.

sirgog
04-11-2010, 11:21 AM
Join the ones that say 'be self-sufficient, not waiting for a healer'.

They are the good groups, by and large.

GhoulsTouch
04-11-2010, 11:46 AM
Here is something I look at-

"BYOH": If you tell a party to bring their own heals its probably going to be a zerg and there is probably going to be at least a few people who are going to be left in the wake of the zergers monster encounter level gone red.

Most players bring potions, wands or whatever anyway...to ensure this sounds like your party is as expendable as the potion bottles you intend for them to throw away. You are basically saying I am not going to look out for you, I dont need you I just want to cut down on my own resources. I might stop to ress you but you are merely a decoy for me in my book.

An appropriate way of saying it is "be prepared"...that makes it sound like you want everyone to pull though.

or...

You have a level 14 character rolling with a group of 5-7 th level characters and they have a LFM out pleading for a healer. There are "smart" kids and there are "dumb" kids...but a party like this is most likely all "kids". Unless I feel charitable and bored out of my gourd I am running away screaming from this one.

7-day_Trial_Monkey
04-11-2010, 12:04 PM
My own personal method, which has a pretty good success rate for me:

Avoid LFM's that:
- have misspellings (Redwill's Runes, Shankotor, Cerlian Hills, etc.)
- say things like "No N00bs"
- are lead by characters named "Drizzt, xXDrizzzztXx, LegolasxXx, etc."
- don't have any kind of group details entered.
- have anything to do with The Pit or Taming the Flames whatsoever (just kidding :p)

You missed my #1 red flag: A level range such that if min and max show up, the min is getting an xp penalty.

DoctorWhofan
04-11-2010, 12:34 PM
Add anything written in AOL speak to that avoid list along with anime named characters :D
If you aren't sure what AOL speak is here's a translator (SMS speak might warrant a warning also)
http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html
http://www.lingo2word.com/translate.php (english to sms speak translator)

HEY! I have anime character names!

Seriously, the LFM is a clue how the PuG would run. Serious misspellings, the level range not changed, not changing the class list to suit what they are asking are all indecations of a highly inexperianced PuG leader. Doesn't mean a BAD one, but the chances go up siginficantly.

Ironically, guild names can give you clues. Highly misspelled and guilds that are "not popular" with many of the other established guilds can say not good either.

I PuG alot, myguild is built around it. Don't fear the PuG. It's like a cold pool. If you ease your way in, you will have less swimming time than jumping in. Either statagy is viable, but never FEAR the PuG.

Zachski
04-11-2010, 12:58 PM
Join the ones that say 'be self-sufficient, not waiting for a healer'.

They are the good groups, by and large.

I dunno if it's just me, but in Korthos and Stormreach Harbor, there's rarely any options.

JUst a couple of open PUGs with the rest of the available parties greyed out.

I have a question: If someone is using the General or Advice channel to shout "LFM", is that a PUG to stay away from?

DoctorWhofan
04-11-2010, 01:07 PM
I dunno if it's just me, but in Korthos and Stormreach Harbor, there's rarely any options.

JUst a couple of open PUGs with the rest of the available parties greyed out.

I have a question: If someone is using the General or Advice channel to shout "LFM", is that a PUG to stay away from?

I would recommend staying away. Generally they are peeps who have no clue or refuse to use the LFM tools.

What server are you from?

MylesMDT
04-11-2010, 01:23 PM
I love PUGs.

I've met a huge range of people from around the world; I've met some of my best friends in the game that way. Yes, you'll join groups that have poor players, poor attitudes, or just playstyles that don't match your own. So, you learn and move on. You can also meet people that you will look up and play with any chance you get; you might even find an entire guild of likeminded players.

To me, it's one of the joys of the game - to be able to join a group of 6-12 people and have some fun.

Sirea
04-11-2010, 01:29 PM
Add anything written in AOL speak to that avoid list along with anime named characters :D

But, but...my main's name is an anime character... :(

DoctorWhofan
04-11-2010, 01:31 PM
But, but...my main's name is an anime character... :(

I have several named for anime characters...doesthat make me a n00b now? :p;):D

Zachski
04-11-2010, 02:11 PM
I would recommend staying away. Generally they are peeps who have no clue or refuse to use the LFM tools.

What server are you from?

All of them, lol. Right now, I'm in Sarlona, though.

tihocan
04-11-2010, 02:58 PM
Solution...start your own groups. Put a note in the LFM saying what your playstyle is (eg "no zerging, hitting all the breakables")
Agreed, just start your own groups with explicit LFMs if you like a specific playstyle.

ddoplayer064
04-11-2010, 03:29 PM
I have several named for anime characters...doesthat make me a n00b now? :p;):D

Yes, yes it does :p ;)

tunabomber
04-11-2010, 03:42 PM
:)I rarely if ever run pugs anymore,it depends what going on with my guildies thou,we are currently focusing on shroud and always seem to get good folks to join our groups. theres almost always someone new but that an opportunity to learn them what not to do ;)

DoctorWhofan
04-11-2010, 04:12 PM
Yes, yes it does :p ;)

meanie! :p

Mirimon
04-11-2010, 05:44 PM
meanie! :p


:D



Though the anime part does require Xx and misspellings to really make me nervous


edit: was going to tease you and say I prefer torchwood... but I ended up buying both box sets anyway... LOL

Daliyn
04-12-2010, 09:32 AM
I don't like partying with people I don't know. I can't really trust them. And I'm often forced to follow their pace, especially when it come to rushers who don't touch a single breakable (I dunno about you, but I like the percentage bonus EXP. Optionals can go to hell, but the breakable and enemy bonuses actually have an impact.)

I know exactly what you mean. PUGs at the lower levels generally seem to be unorganised, rushing crowds running around in the middle of a bunch of mobs. No planning, no communication, nothing. Sometimes it's a bit better, but most of the times it's worse. After some first horrible experiences on Korthos, I avoid pugging for quests I don't know, I find rushing/zerging extremely stressful and unsatisfying then. I solo the quests on normal difficulty first, sneak through, look around every corner, take my time to sniff on every flower, break every barrel, loot every coin of copper and potion. When I want to repeat the quest on a higher difficulty, I don't care any more if I might miss something. I know the quest, know the traps, the optionals, often better than the leader. And I have at least a dim idea of how I can contribute best.

I know this won't work for the later content, and I've already experienced some spectacular failures (Kobold Assault alone on a fresh Lvl 3 wasn't such a brilliant idea), but I'll try nevertheless as long as possible. And I hope that the LFMs later on will be a bit better organised than the ones available in Harbor and Marketplace. There you have to take what's available, and being picky isn't a solution when there's not much choice.

What I definitely avoid:
- blind invites of all kinds
- the "no noobs" thing
- LFMs in the general chat
- LFMs with no quest and no difficulty specified


On an off-topic note... I've started a biography-log for one of my characters, a warpriest. Do you think I should post it on one of the forums? I had to put it in Notepad since the actual biography in game doesn't let you put all that much in.

Why don't you use the blogging tool on myDDO? Then if it takes ages for a group leader to answer your request, you know he myddoed you and reads your bio.

Zachski
04-12-2010, 12:49 PM
Why don't you use the blogging tool on myDDO? Then if it takes ages for a group leader to answer your request, you know he myddoed you and reads your bio.

Hahaha

And believe me, it would take ages by the time I got to a higher level. That is, if myDDO doesn't have a limit.

Zachski
04-18-2010, 11:55 PM
I just wanted to bring this up to say one thing: I've gotten much better about joining PUGs.

I've gotten in TWO long-term Stormreach PUGs now on my Spellsinger (Following the template in the Revised Builds). In both of them, I made a lot of friends. I actually duo'd with one of them, but due to a tragic IRL event, had to drop out early to recuperate emotionally. It's not worth going into here, though...

That's not to say they've been perfect teammates, but really, that's not the important part. We had FUN together. Now, in the second PUG, there was a couple of teammates I found annoying (one was too young to be playing the game), but other than that, we still had fun.

All I need to do is get over my mic shyness and I'm set. (I'm not in a private location, so I have family around, and even after I've told them that I'm voice-chatting in-game, they still look at me funny when I start talking out of nowhere)

Phidius
04-19-2010, 12:04 AM
...

All I need to do is get over my mic shyness and I'm set. (I'm not in a private location, so I have family around, and even after I've told them that I'm voice-chatting in-game, they still look at me funny when I start talking out of nowhere)

My wife asks me why I'm so bossy... apparently, my main use of the mic is to order people around in raids :D

Otherworld
04-19-2010, 04:03 AM
when I never played content before is put up an lfg and put in: First time, doing it slow, also open for RP.
Then people come flocking towards me and in about 5 minutes, I have a 6-man party.

(note: I do mark the quest in the lfm too, my spelling is correct and if it's p2p, I put that in too.)

Also, some of the best groups I've been in were PUG's and the people I really like I add (and they add me too) to my friends list.

And yes, I have had some bad experiences, but then I just left.

Temko
04-19-2010, 04:30 AM
My wife asks me why I'm so bossy... apparently, my main use of the mic is to order people around in raids :D

mine told me to stop cussing becouse i keep going "bloody hell" "oh ffs" "******"... ever ytime i get greaces, knocked, stunned, sleeted, held or killed... (ie: often)

Danmor
04-19-2010, 04:44 AM
Here's some more advice.

If the leader has posted an LFM for the Pit and asks "What quest are we doing?"
If you don't have a healer, you are 65% likely to fail.
If the leader swears a lot (or not enough). Hehe, just kidding. :P
If a member has a weird class like 10 sorc/10 cleric- Yes, I have seen weird builds.
If the healer thinks he's DPS and the melees start using wands to heal you.

That is all.
You don't need a healer for 85% of the content.
A healer should be able to do something besides healing.

Back to topic: PuGs can be fun. They can be annoying. Many tips on how to avoid the annoying ones have been given already, but I'd like to add the following:

Don't join a PuG that advertises a quest above their level on elite (e.g. HIPS on elite, lvl 7-9)
I don't hit an LFM by a guy of lvl 3, advertising for lvl 5-9. I don't know why you'd throw up such an LFM, but that sounds like someone without a clue.
Slayer LFMs looking for a healer. If you need a healer for a wilderness area, you're doing it wrong.
Need Healer LFMs in general.


If you PuG, always bring a couple of spare consumables. You might always meet the Favored Soul without Resist Energy or the Sorceror without Haste.

Psyker
04-19-2010, 04:53 AM
If you can't heal yourself or mitigate a good percentage of incoming damage, YOU are likely to fail. Frequently.



Who say's that Cleric or Favoured Soul is a healer? And why is another player having to use wands on you - can you not use them yourself? Or come prepared with healing potions just in case?

You may have also annoyed the healer and now he's not healing you any more....

The worst PUGs are the ones that wait 45 minutes for a Cleric when there are 2 Rangers, a Paladin, a Bard and a WF Sorc in party.... :)

If you are any sort of decent player you will be noticed by decent guilds, just try to be the most self sufficient player you can be. Anyone can afford a stack of CLW pots or a wand. Just stop buying +2 weapons of vendor crud off the auction house ;)

+1 REP

Become more empowered, be self sufficient.

Ashurr
04-19-2010, 09:47 AM
Don't join any PUGS lead by Dwarves * grins*

theb
04-19-2010, 11:04 AM
PUG tales:

Me, as main healer in Mired in Kobolds, after noticing the ranger's health bar drop alarmingly in several ticks from over three quarters full health to less than half, with no enemy in sight: /tell gimpedelf are you walking in the bushes? gimpedelf says: yes. Me: that damages you you know. gimpedelf says: I know. Can I get a heal? Me: Perhaps you should get more hit point and con items, and not walk in the bushes. You wouldn't want to die from walking in the bushes. That would be embarrassing. gimpedelf says: I know my con sux on this character it's 8 lol. Me: work on it.

Me, at level 18, in a party without an obvious melee, discussing how to do a quest: I can lead, I have 415 hp. Other FvS: how is that possible? Me: I put points into CON at creation and have minos, an hp belt, and enhancements. Other FvS: my CON is 8 lol. I went ahead with that group so I take responsibility for my one death that quest...which happened when someone pulled every single devil at the end of running with the devils, when we had agreed to fight them individually. Mr. 8 CON died five times. Someone apparently didn't know that blade barriers don't stack, but that could have been the other FvS.

More running with the devils, different run: everyone was shrining except for one person at the last rest shrine in running with the devils. One of the melees decides to go exploring...and pulls a devil who interrupts our shrining and nearly wipes the party (I didn't die, but everyone else died at least once).

Me, after the sorcerer accidentally burned three spiders with a firewall halfway through let sleeping dust lie (one had been meleed to death already): please take firewall off of your hotbar. Do you have flesh to stone? Sorc: No, but I won't cast any spells then except for disco ball and waves of exhaustion. Me: great. Flash forward 30 min. later, when the boss is at 10% health: FWOOOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHHH. Every member of the party but him: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Sorc: I'm sorry guys, I hit the wrong button. Spider: help me, I'm on fire. Eiiiiieeeeeeeee!! DM: you have failed to safeguard the spiders. Perhaps you should try something easier, like soloing this quest. Me: /facepalm.

Me, on Mired in Kobolds, before the quest: does everyone have a returning throwing weapon? If not, I can lend you one of mine from the bank. Paladin: I'm good. Flash forward after doing the main quest, one third of the way through killing mama dragon: Paladin: I'm out of throwing daggers. Me: I thought you said you had a returning weapon? Paladin no I had a bunch of stacks of daggers but now I am out. Me: fine, she will still die, it will just take a few minutes more, that's all. Halfway through killing mama dragon: Paladin: this is boring. A few minutes later: Paladin: this game is so boring sometimes. Me: you never have to do this quest again, just go afk and wait. A few minutes later: Paladin: I wonder how long it would take if we were meleeing it. Me: probably not very, she would destroy us fast, look at how many hp she has, we have been attacking her for half an hour. (Paladin edges closer to the edge of the concrete,) Me: stay back or you will draw agro. (Paladin does not move. Mama is at 20% hp.) Me: I said get back or you will draw agro and she will follow you to us and kill us all. Paladin: I am going to charge it. Other cleric: don't you dare or god help me I will stand all day in the market place and tell...(Paladin charges the dragon)...everyone not to group with you. (Apparently, it is a real biological reaction and not just an affectation to stand gape jawed in shock. I didn't even realize my mouth was open in shock until I started to speak.) Me: PALADIN, STAY THERE. RUN TO THE CORNER. DIE THERE. DO NOT RUN BACK TOWARDS US. (Paladin, having drawn agro and gotten a few whomps from the dragon, commences to retreat to the rest of the party. I begin shouting into the microphone.) Me: RUN AWAY FROM US. AWAY. OK, EMERGENCY PLAN, EVERYONE RUN TO A DIFFERENT CORNER OF THE MAP WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE AGRO CAN FINISH IT OFF. (Dragon overrun/wipes us out more or less entirely, leaving only one person alive, who starts throwing daggers at it. Paladin: that will take forever I am rezing. (Paladin rezes and charges the dragon four or so times, hitting it a few times per hit, and scuttling any hope the party had of reforming the throwing group. Party tells paladin what an idiot he is, but enjoys the sight of him dying repeatedly. Eventually we all rez out, return, and melee the dragon to death.) Paladin: I'm not an idiot my IQ is 160. I play this game for fun not for xp or loot. (postscript: after making it onto some of our squelch lists, he was apparently trying to complain about being dropped to other members of the party through intermediaries, but he didn't try to talk to me.)

My good PUGing experiences outweigh the bad, and the bad are funny in retrospect.

Zachski
04-19-2010, 01:13 PM
Me, on Mired in Kobolds, before the quest: does everyone have a returning throwing weapon? If not, I can lend you one of mine from the bank. Paladin: I'm good. Flash forward after doing the main quest, one third of the way through killing mama dragon: Paladin: I'm out of throwing daggers. Me: I thought you said you had a returning weapon? Paladin no I had a bunch of stacks of daggers but now I am out. Me: fine, she will still die, it will just take a few minutes more, that's all. Halfway through killing mama dragon: Paladin: this is boring. A few minutes later: Paladin: this game is so boring sometimes. Me: you never have to do this quest again, just go afk and wait. A few minutes later: Paladin: I wonder how long it would take if we were meleeing it. Me: probably not very, she would destroy us fast, look at how many hp she has, we have been attacking her for half an hour. (Paladin edges closer to the edge of the concrete,) Me: stay back or you will draw agro. (Paladin does not move. Mama is at 20% hp.) Me: I said get back or you will draw agro and she will follow you to us and kill us all. Paladin: I am going to charge it. Other cleric: don't you dare or god help me I will stand all day in the market place and tell...(Paladin charges the dragon)...everyone not to group with you. (Apparently, it is a real biological reaction and not just an affectation to stand gape jawed in shock. I didn't even realize my mouth was open in shock until I started to speak.) Me: PALADIN, STAY THERE. RUN TO THE CORNER. DIE THERE. DO NOT RUN BACK TOWARDS US. (Paladin, having drawn agro and gotten a few whomps from the dragon, commences to retreat to the rest of the party. I begin shouting into the microphone.) Me: RUN AWAY FROM US. AWAY. OK, EMERGENCY PLAN, EVERYONE RUN TO A DIFFERENT CORNER OF THE MAP WHOEVER DOES NOT HAVE AGRO CAN FINISH IT OFF. (Dragon overrun/wipes us out more or less entirely, leaving only one person alive, who starts throwing daggers at it. Paladin: that will take forever I am rezing. (Paladin rezes and charges the dragon four or so times, hitting it a few times per hit, and scuttling any hope the party had of reforming the throwing group. Party tells paladin what an idiot he is, but enjoys the sight of him dying repeatedly. Eventually we all rez out, return, and melee the dragon to death.) Paladin: I'm not an idiot my IQ is 160. I play this game for fun not for xp or loot. (postscript: after making it onto some of our squelch lists, he was apparently trying to complain about being dropped to other members of the party through intermediaries, but he didn't try to talk to me.)

My good PUGing experiences outweigh the bad, and the bad are funny in retrospect.

.......Good god, I hate it when people don't listen.

It's like he did the OPPOSITE of everything you wanted him to do.

An IQ of 160 huh? More like an IQ of 60!

theb
04-19-2010, 01:29 PM
.......Good god, I hate it when people don't listen.

It's like he did the OPPOSITE of everything you wanted him to do.

An IQ of 160 huh? More like an IQ of 60!

I left out the best exchange. While the group was...discussing strategy with him, but before I had said much (so he didn't know how much I disapproved of his actions), Paladin: I'm willing to keep rezing out and recharging my health and going in to get a few swings at the dragon as many times as it takes! Group: stunned silence. Me: I never doubted that. Not even for a second. Paladin: thanks, man. Me: /snicker.

BlackSteel
04-19-2010, 01:35 PM
make your own group and put 'all bonuses/optionals' in the tag.

Eladiun
04-19-2010, 02:17 PM
Easy answer: Pug only P2P content... It shows the person has at least invested something to the game even if it's just the time to farm the points. House Quests, Harbor, Marketplace pugs...lots of bad luck. Orchard, GH, Sands...mostly good pugs. Just my experience since returning...

Zachski
04-19-2010, 04:10 PM
make your own group and put 'all bonuses/optionals' in the tag.

Actually, once you get past Korthos, it isn't that big of an issue. Also, it helps when someone in the party other than myself happens to be really interested in secret doors, which usually results in bonus EXP anyways.


Easy answer: Pug only P2P content... It shows the person has at least invested something to the game even if it's just the time to farm the points. House Quests, Harbor, Marketplace pugs...lots of bad luck. Orchard, GH, Sands...mostly good pugs. Just my experience since returning...

I don't have P2P content, either, so I couldn't PUG those if I wanted to.

However, like I said earlier, it's pretty much resolved. I'm easily able to join a PUG... and if anything, I'm finding it more enjoyable than forming a static. I get to see new faces, hear new voices... and all the bad experiences aren't that bad, really.

redgod
04-19-2010, 04:33 PM
most of these are great but i would add the folowing lfm posts to the avoid list

--- cleric needed --- mana sponges not wanting to use own pots/ wands

---must have heals--- in my experience this equals cleric needed + we suck

--- omg were all dead---(yes ive seen this ) Run

Eladiun
04-19-2010, 06:22 PM
However, like I said earlier, it's pretty much resolved. I'm easily able to join a PUG... and if anything, I'm finding it more enjoyable than forming a static. I get to see new faces, hear new voices... and all the bad experiences aren't that bad, really.

No Pugs no drama threads and then what would we do.

Zachski
04-19-2010, 06:28 PM
No Pugs no drama threads and then what would we do.

wut? .-.

Emili
04-19-2010, 06:33 PM
And oddly, not just because of all the horror stories I've heard.

I don't like partying with people I don't know. I can't really trust them. And I'm often forced to follow their pace, especially when it come to rushers who don't touch a single breakable (I dunno about you, but I like the percentage bonus EXP. Optionals can go to hell, but the breakable and enemy bonuses actually have an impact.)

Furthermore, as I'm sure to encounter a lot of quests I don't know, I don't feel like I'm given a chance to actually learn the quest. I'm just dragged along for the ride.

So yeah, I imagine a lot of it has to do with pace. However...

I want a solution. I want to PUG. Partying is what Dungeons and Dragons is about. You can't just have a DM and one player, you need a whole group of players.

Any advice on how to tell a good PUG from a bad PUG?

... Do tell you the scariest is joining a pug at level for an elite rainbow on your melee... and the caster blows thru all his mana after using the one and only shrine ... You're moving slowly down the dark hall only to find and have to fend off a half dozen of rust monsters and earth elementals while the helpless caster with the flashlight is way back clinging to the cleric arm... and after such perilous stint in the dark with the mob all gone emerge in the room on the other end of the tunnel and the cleric and caster catch up - and you, you're standing in your knickers. :o

Arnya
04-21-2010, 11:19 PM
wut? .-.

Add a comma or 2 and slap a question mark at the end then read it again :)

Zachski
04-21-2010, 11:27 PM
Add a comma or 2 and slap a question mark at the end then read it again :)

That's what I thought, actually, it was just worded so weirdly it didn't even sound like a proper thought XD