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Antheal
04-03-2010, 12:30 AM
Now I know I'm only Free-to-Play so my opinion doesn't hold any weight as far as the VIPs are concerned, but hear me out at least. :-)

I believe the traditional D&D options to scribe a scroll for Wizards, or brew a potion for Clerics, could add a new and fun dimension to gameplay.

I don't know very much about programming, but I'm under the impression that the mechanics of this would be similar to the inscribe scroll ability that wizards already have, except in reverse.

A wizard could create a scroll of any spell currently in his spellbook, perhaps with the requirement of the appropriate level Writing Materials and an appropriate level Blank Scroll - having two different level-rated ingredients would make the ability to scribe scrolls rarer or harder (more expensive) to achieve for the more potent scrolls, but could in turn be auctioned, or sold to traders, or just given to your teammates.

The same could go for clerics, perhaps needing level-rated Potion Ingredients and a level-rated Potion Bottle. This could allow them to create potions or spells that already exist in potion form, available to buy from vendors. Being able to brew potions for storage and later use could have its advantages. Of course to preserve game balance perhaps the cost of both ingredients and potion bottle could equal the cost of buying the potion ready-brewed from a potion vendor?

One thing I've not covered in those post is the ability to scribe divine scrolls, such as heal, and to create wands. Well I wondered if that might be taking things a bit too far to start with. Perhaps if this suggestion was considered, it could be left until a later time to see how things went and if clerics being able to create Heal scrolls on-the-fly would imbalance the difficulty of later levels.

As it stands, I think Wizards being able to create scrolls of their spells, and Clerics being able to create potions of the spells that already exist as potions in the game (so as not too need any extra coding) could be a way to breathe new life into these classes and create a new player economy dynamic. I hear platinum is as free-flowing as water in later levels.

I do foresee one exploitable situation - two wizards can get different halves of their spellbooks from levelling up, and simply inscribe the other wizards spells as scrolls for them to scribe into their spellbooks. Of course, depending on the scaling of cost in materials at higher levels, it could be more cost-effective for them to simply buy those scrolls from a vendor.

I'd love to hear other's opinions on this suggestion. :-)

Symar-FangofLloth
04-03-2010, 12:59 AM
You used to be able to buy every spell as a scroll.
What wound up happening, is all the rogues and bards would stock up on a bajillion firewall and cloudkill scrolls, and they were practically another caster.

So, I'm not opposed to scroll crafting, but it would have to be ridiculously expensive to not be super broken. Possibly with a large timer on it as well.

Antheal
04-03-2010, 01:11 AM
So does that mean it's impossible in the current game to learn those spells now, unless you specifically take them at level up or are lucky enough to have them drop in a treasure chest?

I can only hope there's a warning about that for first-time players...

On the other hand, limiting the scribe-able spells to those currently available in shops will prevent this from happening.

Aschbart
04-03-2010, 04:40 AM
Remember that per the D&D rules, crafting requires the expense of XP! More to the point: It also requires half the base value's worth in components to craft, and it also requires time - quite a lot of that in fact - as well as proper tools and preferably a decent place to do the crafting.

That means, no, rogues (and others) will definitely not suddenly carry tons of scrolls, since hardly anyone will *want* to do much crafting.

No doubt, the D&D crafting feats would require some major overhaul to be useful in DDO. And even then, who would actually take them? In a game that essentially requires you to use all your build resources to create a feasible character for end game content, who can spare a feat for stuff you can just buy for gold instead?

Antheal
04-03-2010, 06:03 AM
That's true, although DDO doesn't follow D&D to the letter.

Perhaps the Feats for scribing scrolls and brewing potions could be given for free at level 1 of those classes, such as Dismiss Charm is now.

And if it's not feasible to scribe or brew in the middle of a dungeon, what if crafting can only be done at a special altar, such as the one in the Marketplace for binding - of it's that's too prohibitive, only in the area of a Rest Shrine?

Daehawk
04-03-2010, 06:25 AM
I can only hope there's a warning about that for first-time players...


Warning? No. As well as level 8 and 9 spells you have to find/buy all the scrolls for other than the ones you learn while leveling.

Also you can check out: http://ddowiki.com/page/Scrolls

Has a list of scrolls that are not on vendors for Divine and Arcane.

Visty
04-03-2010, 06:26 AM
if they would introduce such things then the materials would have to be cheaper then vendors cause otherwise ppl will just use the vendors
and ofc they have to be more expensive then the vendors, otherwise vendors could also get removed

conclucion: it will be the same price as vendors but will cost at least 1 feat -> noone will use it

cdbd3rd
04-03-2010, 06:59 AM
Collectable recipes for the Stone/Change.

No extra feats needed & self limiting by the need to sink time into gathering mats once everyone uses up their saved up collectables.


:)

Antheal
04-03-2010, 07:07 AM
Why would it cost a feat? Wizards already get Inscribe Scroll for free at first level, giving them both Inscribe & Scribe wont cost anything. Same with Clerics and Brew Potion, it would be auto-given at your first level of Cleric.

I'm suggesting these features be given as default class abilities to promote their viability over Sorcerers and Favoured Souls.

Buying scrolls and potions from vendors is all well and good, but it's not an option if you run out halfway through a quest. Also, to introduce a new player economy dynamic with this as a crafting system could find a new type of player who enjoys creating scrolls and potions just for the sake of it, to sell or give to their guildmates or party members.

Narzic
04-03-2010, 12:55 PM
Collectable recipes for the Stone/Change.

No extra feats needed & self limiting by the need to sink time into gathering mats once everyone uses up their saved up collectables.


:)

i think that this is the easiest, and probably least game-breaking, way to do it.

Phidius
04-03-2010, 01:25 PM
Collectable recipes for the Stone/Change.

No extra feats needed & self limiting by the need to sink time into gathering mats once everyone uses up their saved up collectables.


:)

Making certain collectibles into ritual ingredients caused me to start collecting again... increasing the uses for additional collectibles would only see me collecting more of them.

/signed

Celestialbeast
04-04-2010, 02:04 AM
First of all I love the idea.
/signed

Second of all I would be broke trying to buy up all the FoM potions I could find. All my plat would be officially sunk!

And I think others would do the same actually. But that's just me.

mediocresurgeon
04-04-2010, 03:05 AM
You used to be able to buy every spell as a scroll.
What wound up happening, is all the rogues and bards would stock up on a bajillion firewall and cloudkill scrolls, and they were practically another caster.

Of course, this was back when:
*Enhancements to spell damage functioned on scrolls
*Metamagic feats worked on scrolls
*Potency items worked on scrolls
*Wall of Fire had higher base damage
*Multiple Walls of Fire in the same area "stacked"
*Wall of Fire from a scroll had 1/10th of the cooldown of actually casting the spell
*Blade Barrier and Wall of Fire had longer durations (several minutes per cast)
*Cloudkill did not generate aggro, so unactivated monsters would sit in the cloudkill and die without ever attacking the party
*Wall of Fire and Cloudkill could kill enemies through walls and doors

Because Wall of Fire and Cloudkill got nerfed so hard (especially the scroll versions!) and many other gameplay changes since then, casting offensive spells off of a scroll is not nearly as overpowered as it used to be. (I am one of those who grandfathered in hundreds of such now-banned scrolls and use them on low-level characters.)


So, I'm not opposed to scroll crafting, but it would have to be ridiculously expensive to not be super broken. Possibly with a large timer on it as well.

I suppose this would be nice for wizards--it would enable a high-level wizard to fill up the spellbook of lower-level wizards. But it wouldn't really help the spellcasting bards which are nearly useless in many missions (Necropolis, Prey on the Hunter, Stealer of Souls, etc) or the Rogues who used to come equipped with Wall of Fire scrolls for the undead areas.

Ashurr
04-05-2010, 03:59 AM
Still think this is a great idea from an RP standpoint alone.

/signed

Sinni
04-05-2010, 04:07 AM
So does that mean it's impossible in the current game to learn those spells now, unless you specifically take them at level up or are lucky enough to have them drop in a treasure chest?

I can only hope there's a warning about that for first-time players...


it isn't that bad because you can buy them from AH. a single scroll of a spell isn't an issue to buy, but large stacks are, which you don't need to learn it.

Quanefel
04-07-2010, 12:52 AM
if they would introduce such things then the materials would have to be cheaper then vendors cause otherwise ppl will just use the vendors
and ofc they have to be more expensive then the vendors, otherwise vendors could also get removed

conclucion: it will be the same price as vendors but will cost at least 1 feat -> noone will use it

Personally, I am not against all caster classes be given Scribe Scroll as a free feat at 1st level, not so much of Brew Potion which is a minimum 3rd level feat for all caster classes.

I'd also like to see all the Magical Item Creation Feats put in the game, for casters per the D&D rules for those feats.

smartfella69
04-24-2010, 08:24 PM
if rogues and bards stocked up on scrolls becoming just another spell caster, that is dev's fault for not, creating rules for scrolls require increasing difficulty to cast limiting non-spell casters to only certain spells, and then making scrolls take far longer to cast. They essentially should take far longer to cast scrolls than cast spells unless you are a caster.
want to cast spells from scrolls as another class, it should cost action points to get the skill and increase if you want to gain the ability to cast higher level scrolls, and it should take at least 1.5X the time to cast them from scrolls.

Visty
04-24-2010, 08:30 PM
if rogues and bards stocked up on scrolls becoming just another spell caster, that is dev's fault for not, creating rules for scrolls require increasing difficulty to cast limiting non-spell casters to only certain spells, and then making scrolls take far longer to cast. They essentially should take far longer to cast scrolls than cast spells unless you are a caster.
want to cast spells from scrolls as another class, it should cost action points to get the skill and increase if you want to gain the ability to cast higher level scrolls, and it should take at least 1.5X the time to cast them from scrolls.

horrible idea
the current way is fine as it is as its working by the book

lbroyles
04-25-2010, 07:01 PM
Boo to this idea... What am i going to spend my money on? Repairs lol

Antheal
04-25-2010, 07:08 PM
Boo to this idea... What am i going to spend my money on? Repairs lol

Empty bottles, blank scrolls and ingredients.

Want some Remove x potions or Heal scrolls? Give them to the Cleric to make for you. ;)

LunaCee
04-25-2010, 07:50 PM
Might be more amusing & useful if player crafted scrolls were able to made at max caster level. So for example Heal & Harm scrolls made by a player could be CL 15 instead of 11.

knightgf
04-25-2010, 08:20 PM
Being able to inscribe scrolls, brew potions and craft wands would be a good addition to this game, believe it or not. And why is that?

Well, overall, all 3 abilities enable you to create things that vendors would not sell, are usually better products in terms of caster level, and give us something mostly non-combat related to do in this game. Wizards and clerics can scribe and create better scrolls and wands(To which others wizards can inscribe arcane scrolls), and clerics can brew better and non-vendor potions. In addition, it adds more value to their classes, since clerics and wizards can have a unique strength when compared to their memorized classes.

How should it be done? Vendors all around town will sell various low-level and medium-level regents for your task at hand. For some low-level and medium level regents, the ingrediants are exotic and require treks to wilderness areas, while all high level regents can be found in chests. Once you have the regents, then simply perform the action to create whatever item you wish to create, and then you'll make the skill check of (10+caster level of object+complexity of recipe) in order to make the object. If the skill check succeeds, you get the object; otherwise, you fail to create the object.

To make a scroll, you will need to have the spell memorized. In addition, you will need to purchase 1 drop of ink per scroll that you wish to scribe from a vendor, as well as papyrus to scribe on and a quill. The ink will then need to be enchanted with your magic at the cost of 5*caster level SP per drop of ink. If the scroll you are trying to inscribe requires special components, you must include these components as well when you inscribe the scroll, unless the components can be substituted for eschew materials, in which you will simply need more SP to complete the scroll. Once all is in place, you need only to press "Scribe scroll", select the scroll you wish to scribe and you will attempt at creating a scroll.

To make a potion, you will need the recipe of the potion you are making first. These recipes are obtained in dungeons and last permenantly. Once you have a recipe, you will need to have a vial of water, a bunsen burner with fuel, a pestle and motar, the herbs required to make the potion, and any secondary ingrediants required to make it. Once you have all of the ingrediants, you simply need to press "Brew potion", select the potion you wish to brew and you will attempt at brewing a potion.

To make a wand, you will need to have the spell memorized. You will need a piece of wood that supports the caster level of the wand you wish to make, as well as glitterdust(Or other types of dust depending on the power level to infuse the wand) to surround the wand with a magical aura to capture the energies needed to create it. Once you have the ingrediants needed, simply press "create wand", select the wand you wish to create and you will attempt to create the wand. It is possible to create eternal wands, but it is a harder process to undergo, requires a special type of dust and can only be done with the aid of a recipe, due to the complexity of making such a thing. Few wands can be created that are 'eternal', and the recipes to find them are incredably rare.

All wands, scrolls and potions can be adjusted in terms of caster level(I.E.:A level 20 cleric can make a potion that has a caster level of 5). In addition, wands can have different power levels, but require more mana and levels of dust to create, and are more difficult to create. If you are brewing potions, creating scrolls or conjuring wands, it will take more time, requires you to stand still, requires a concentration check if you are hit in combat, and you will not receieve a rest bonus for creating the item, unlike if you had performed the action at a bar or other resting area. If you had just rested at a rest shrine, however, you receive the rest bonus.

Overall, giving some classes the ability to create wands, make scrolls and brew potions would be a great way to add value to these classes. Some may say it would ruin the economy because of all the useless scrolls and such you get from dungeons, but if you think about it, the economy's in a awkward state already in DDO:EU. Plus, players can benefit others more because the scrolls, potions and wands they create are of higher quality. Its a nice skill to add, but if it is considered by turbine, I dont expect to see it for a year at least.

salmag
04-26-2010, 10:30 AM
Being able to inscribe scrolls, brew potions and craft wands would be a good addition to this game, believe it or not. And why is that?

Well, overall, all 3 abilities enable you to create things that vendors would not sell, are usually better products in terms of caster level, and give us something mostly non-combat related to do in this game. Wizards and clerics can scribe and create better scrolls and wands(To which others wizards can inscribe arcane scrolls), and clerics can brew better and non-vendor potions. In addition, it adds more value to their classes, since clerics and wizards can have a unique strength when compared to their memorized classes.

How should it be done? Vendors all around town will sell various low-level and medium-level regents for your task at hand. For some low-level and medium level regents, the ingrediants are exotic and require treks to wilderness areas, while all high level regents can be found in chests. Once you have the regents, then simply perform the action to create whatever item you wish to create, and then you'll make the skill check of (10+caster level of object+complexity of recipe) in order to make the object. If the skill check succeeds, you get the object; otherwise, you fail to create the object.

To make a scroll, you will need to have the spell memorized. In addition, you will need to purchase 1 drop of ink per scroll that you wish to scribe from a vendor, as well as papyrus to scribe on and a quill. The ink will then need to be enchanted with your magic at the cost of 5*caster level SP per drop of ink. If the scroll you are trying to inscribe requires special components, you must include these components as well when you inscribe the scroll, unless the components can be substituted for eschew materials, in which you will simply need more SP to complete the scroll. Once all is in place, you need only to press "Scribe scroll", select the scroll you wish to scribe and you will attempt at creating a scroll.

To make a potion, you will need the recipe of the potion you are making first. These recipes are obtained in dungeons and last permenantly. Once you have a recipe, you will need to have a vial of water, a bunsen burner with fuel, a pestle and motar, the herbs required to make the potion, and any secondary ingrediants required to make it. Once you have all of the ingrediants, you simply need to press "Brew potion", select the potion you wish to brew and you will attempt at brewing a potion.

To make a wand, you will need to have the spell memorized. You will need a piece of wood that supports the caster level of the wand you wish to make, as well as glitterdust(Or other types of dust depending on the power level to infuse the wand) to surround the wand with a magical aura to capture the energies needed to create it. Once you have the ingrediants needed, simply press "create wand", select the wand you wish to create and you will attempt to create the wand. It is possible to create eternal wands, but it is a harder process to undergo, requires a special type of dust and can only be done with the aid of a recipe, due to the complexity of making such a thing. Few wands can be created that are 'eternal', and the recipes to find them are incredably rare.

All wands, scrolls and potions can be adjusted in terms of caster level(I.E.:A level 20 cleric can make a potion that has a caster level of 5). In addition, wands can have different power levels, but require more mana and levels of dust to create, and are more difficult to create. If you are brewing potions, creating scrolls or conjuring wands, it will take more time, requires you to stand still, requires a concentration check if you are hit in combat, and you will not receieve a rest bonus for creating the item, unlike if you had performed the action at a bar or other resting area. If you had just rested at a rest shrine, however, you receive the rest bonus.

Overall, giving some classes the ability to create wands, make scrolls and brew potions would be a great way to add value to these classes. Some may say it would ruin the economy because of all the useless scrolls and such you get from dungeons, but if you think about it, the economy's in a awkward state already in DDO:EU. Plus, players can benefit others more because the scrolls, potions and wands they create are of higher quality. Its a nice skill to add, but if it is considered by turbine, I dont expect to see it for a year at least.

Well said. Great idea.

The only thing that I would like to add is that Wizards/Sorcs can only make their Wands/Potions/Scrolls within the Portable Hole. Clercis/FVS can only make their Wands/Potions/Scrolls within the Word of Recall Church (in House D, I believe).

I, also, think that the Crafting Feats should be used. A level 20 Wizard making level 20 appropriate Wand should require a Feat.

This would also give more weight to the Wand/Scroll Enhancement lines, and make them more viable.

LunaCee
04-26-2010, 11:50 AM
There are no level 20 appropriate wands. 9-15th level depending upon the spell (almost universally buffing & recovery) yes. But not 20th level for anything but duration... and even if we did make 20th CL wands it would pretty much be the caster alone using them. UMD goes off the CL of the item. Heal scrolls (6th level spell, CL 11) are a 39 UMD check. Raise Dead (5th level, CL 9) are a 36 check. It goes up by 3 per CL of the item. I don't really see that many people around with a UMD 66 that would be able to use CL 20 stuff!

If you want us to happily have 20th level viable crafted gear it would have to be Craft Rod, Craft Staff, and Forge Ring. Because wands only go up to 4th level stuff. And pots only go upto CL 3. So Freedom of Movement? Wand only. Unless of course we could craft rechargeable rods & staffs or even with GREAT expense a ring of it. (An always on ring of Freedom of Movement would be an insane item... expensive to craft, have a fairly high minimum level. But people WOULD be willing to pay for it.)

Quanefel
04-26-2010, 12:07 PM
Well said. Great idea.

The only thing that I would like to add is that Wizards/Sorcs can only make their Wands/Potions/Scrolls within the Portable Hole. Clercis/FVS can only make their Wands/Potions/Scrolls within the Word of Recall Church (in House D, I believe).

I, also, think that the Crafting Feats should be used. A level 20 Wizard making level 20 appropriate Wand should require a Feat.

This would also give more weight to the Wand/Scroll Enhancement lines, and make them more viable.

Agreed on the Create magical Item feats but remember, it includes bards, rangers, paladins and even druids and artificers if we ever get those classes. The feats work off the caster level, not class level of the caster.