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View Full Version : Please fix light hammers



Skani
03-26-2010, 07:13 PM
They are totally useless now.
basic +1 Lhammer (1d4 /x2/martial prof)
http://i43.tinypic.com/2rp3f9g.jpg

VS.
basic +1 Lmace.(1d6 /x2/simple prof)

http://i44.tinypic.com/dmqgsi.jpg


Mace won. That means, something is wrong here, and I think, that x2 multi on light hammers crit is very old mistake, that should be finally fixed. Please Turbine, put x3 crit on light hammers, or add to its base dmg.

Calozz78
03-26-2010, 07:21 PM
/signed

hydra_ex
03-26-2010, 07:22 PM
1d6 20/x3 wouldn't be OP. It would make warhammer-light hammer a parallel to longsword-shortsword.

Angelus_dead
03-27-2010, 01:03 AM
1d6 20/x3 wouldn't be OP. It would make warhammer-light hammer a parallel to longsword-shortsword.
Yes, a +1 to the crit mult would slightly improve gameplay, and also make the rules more consistent:
Greataxe 1d12 20/x3
Battleaxe 1d10 20/x3
Handaxe 1d6 20/x3
Maul 1d10 20/x3
Warhammer 1d8 20/x3
Light Hammer 1d4 20/x2

It doesn't make sense for Light Hammer to be martial and yet inferior to a simple weapon like light mace. The downside to the change is that it would be against the written D&D 3.5 rules. But as we all know, the developers already gave the khopesh +1 crit mult so that it would make sense as an exotic weapon.

Marr0w1
03-27-2010, 02:08 AM
/signed

honkuimushi
03-27-2010, 03:09 AM
The reason for the low damage is that in PnP light hammers can be used as a thrown weapon. But since we now have throwing hammers and light hammers can't be thrown in DDO. Using khopesh as a precident for boosting the stats doesn't strike me as an awful idea, but the devs may be leary about having things turn out like khopeshes. I don't think that's really a danger here, though.

Right now, light hammers are definitely sub-optimal. But they can be useful to finesse builds depending on the mods. I would rather have a holy light hammer than a shocking light mace if I'm going to do Delera's on a finesse character.

Ganolyn
03-27-2010, 07:11 AM
I don't know if this has anything to do with it, but in the real world a light hammer has a smaller head and less weight than a light mace. Most maces are made entirely of metal while hammers often (but not always) have a metal reenforced wooden haft.

Skani
05-31-2010, 07:20 AM
Bump. Fix light hammers please.

Krag
05-31-2010, 07:30 AM
Mace won. That means, something is wrong here, and I think, that x2 multi on light hammers crit is very old mistake, that should be finally fixed. Please Turbine, put crit on light hammers.

x3 critical won't change anything. Skeletons and constructs have 100% fortification.

Kintro
05-31-2010, 07:48 AM
x3 critical won't change anything. Skeletons and constructs have 100% fortification.

That's like saying Bastard Swords are better than Khopesh because Zombies have 100% fort.

A x3 crit weighted 5% Light Hammer would be a great offhand weapon for anyone without OTWF. At the moment it's a significant downgrade from a War Hammer.

honkuimushi
05-31-2010, 08:23 AM
x3 critical won't change anything. Skeletons and constructs have 100% fortification.

Rember that burst effects and maiming still go off on 100% Fort enemies and the x3 multiplier would give an extra die on those. You're still dealing with a 20 or 19-20 crit range, but the x3 multiplier would make things a little better.

brian14
05-31-2010, 08:31 AM
<shurg> My main toon owns two light hammers: + 1 smiting and +1 Holy Burst of Pure Good. First one is off-hand weapon against golems, and for all practical purposes does no damage -- I only care about smiting effect. The latter does massive damage against evil mobs, and its low base is irrelevant.

GlorkTheInvader
05-31-2010, 08:34 AM
Here's a crazy thought.

Some weapons are just inherently better than others, and DDO can reflect this just fine.

90% of the loot you pull will be vendored anyway, so what does it matter that the +2 Acid Light Hammer of Weighted 1% you pulled isn't as good as the +2 Acid Light Mace of Weighted 1% you could have pulled? In the rare instance in which being a Light Hammer (as opposed to a Light Mace) actually matters, you chalk it up to poor luck and move on.

Angelus_dead
05-31-2010, 08:52 AM
Here's a crazy thought.

Some weapons are just inherently better than others, and DDO can reflect this just fine.
In that case, no Light Hammers would exist, because a person would be stupid to ever build one. Why spend more effort to create an item that's worse than a Light Mace, instead of just doing another Light Mace?

Items like clubs have the excuse that they took less effort and expense than better things did. But that doesn't apply with Light Hammer.

honkuimushi
05-31-2010, 08:56 AM
Here's a crazy thought.

Some weapons are just inherently better than others, and DDO can reflect this just fine.

90% of the loot you pull will be vendored anyway, so what does it matter that the +2 Acid Light Hammer of Weighted 1% you pulled isn't as good as the +2 Acid Light Mace of Weighted 1% you could have pulled? In the rare instance in which being a Light Hammer (as opposed to a Light Mace) actually matters, you chalk it up to poor luck and move on.

True, but again, in PnP the difference is not quite as much as in DDO. The ability to use light hammers as a melee or ranged weapon gives you some versatility. In DDO that property was dropped and not replaced with anything, leaving a weapon that's, if not useless, really underpowered. Remember that the light hammer is a martial weapon, but it has the same crit stats and does less damage than the light mace, a simple weapon.

Replacing the ranged ability with the crit multiplier of the other hammers as a replacement for the loss of ranged ability isn't really overpowered and makes it a little more useful. Usually, when a weapon is significantly worse, it's compensated by a special ability(ranged ability, monk weapons,etc.), or it's a simple weapon vs. a martial or exotic one(club, etc.) Having the martial weapon be the weaker one kind of reverses this trend.

vVAnjilaVv
05-31-2010, 09:07 AM
Isn't all of this kind of moot......come next update TWF won't be viable anymore anyways :p

GlorkTheInvader
05-31-2010, 09:11 AM
In that case, no Light Hammers would exist, because a person would be stupid to ever build one. Why spend more effort to create an item that's worse than a Light Mace, instead of just doing another Light Mace?

Items like clubs have the excuse that they took less effort and expense than better things did. But that doesn't apply with Light Hammer.Well if we're going to get into flavor discussions, I could counter your point by asking some other mostly-aribtrary question, like why every weapon isn't RR. When you send a greatsword from a WF toon to a Halfling, why does it suddenly shrink to half its size, just to suit the Halfling's height?

Perhaps Light Hammers exist because they require less material, so more can be produced at less cost and in less time. But I wouldn't really know to begin with, and this argument seems tangential at best.



EDIT: I guess the point I was trying to make (as inarticulate as I may be) is that, in my humble opinion, asking that each weapon type has its own useful little niche is roughly akin to asking that every piece of randomly generated loot item be just as useful as every other piece of randomly generated loot. It just seems unneccessary to me. Some loot will be better than others... period.

uhgungawa
05-31-2010, 09:19 AM
PFFT, I say make it so you have to carry ammo in a pouch to even use it......

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_351/1231358022RX5hJu.jpg
:rolleyes:

Kintro
05-31-2010, 10:02 AM
Greataxe 1d12 20/x3
Battleaxe 1d10 20/x3
Handaxe 1d6 20/x3
Maul 1d10 20/x3
Warhammer 1d8 20/x3
Light Hammer 1d4 20/x2


Also:
Falchion 2d4 18-20/x2
Scimitar 1d6 18-20/x2
Kukri 1d4 18-20/x2

On the other hand Greatclubs are 1d10 20/x2 and martial, maybe they should be simple?