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View Full Version : Do drow sorcs need anything other than INT CHA and CON?



praetor
03-23-2010, 07:35 AM
I'm asking because I'm wondering if I should even bother equipping +6 ability items that add to WIS, DEX or STR. Such items would be a big drain on my item slots, and so far I can't see how they would significantly help my caster drow sorc... carrying capacity has never been an issue for me, so I don't really see the need for STR, and I don't know what sorcs need WIS or DEX for...

Help is appreciated!

BurningDownTheHouse
03-23-2010, 07:43 AM
Wis and dex help with saves (more survivability).

As for str, haven't been hit with ray of enfeeblement yet, have you?

Avandaril_Faust
03-23-2010, 07:52 AM
I havea drow sorc and my int is low (like 12 I think)... was that a mistake? I made dex a higher score and I made my str a 12 as well.

when it comes to toons, I follow a basic principle, like with my sorc, Cha, most imp of course. Next con, more hp right? better fort saves RIGHT!! Then I give them a higher dex or str, for those times when you are out of mana and have to rely on weapons, you are going to want to hit a few times more than never.

However any +6 boost to an off score sounds good to me too if its not otherwise wasting a spot for better gear. +6 to wis means your already high will saves will only get higher (by +3 if my math is correct).

I would say you should equip those items if you don't have better/more important gear on those spots (like a cloak that increases cha even by +2 or +4 vs a cloak that increases wis, that sort of thing).

This is my opinion from what I have learned playing D&D and DDO for a while. Hope it helps :D

werk
03-23-2010, 07:53 AM
Wis and Dex help with saves, but that's about it. You think those 3 points will really help in a d20 system?

Str would help for when you become exhausted or enfeebled or in some other way lose Str and become helpless easily (fire immune shadows/gargoyles/etc).

Sorcs only really need Con and Cha.

Avandaril_Faust
03-23-2010, 08:16 AM
Well, I don't know how many times, playing PNP D&D, that those 3 points made a big difference. My biggest problem is that I am stuck in the PNP mindset still. Like toughness, +3 hp, but now its +3 hp/+1 per level, which would total 23 extra hit points right? I find myself wondering if its worth a feat to even take toughness, because by the time you are level 20, wouldn't most hits cause more than 23 damage anyway? Unless I am not understanding toughness as well as I should. I guess if its a prereq to something (PNP had dwarven/giant/dragon toughness) then it would be worthwhile if you wanted to spend your feats on that path.

honkuimushi
03-23-2010, 08:21 AM
Sorcs only really need Con and Cha.


At least some Int so that you have enough skill points to max Concentration and UMD with perhaps some left over for a few ranks in Balance, Jump, and Tumble isn't a bad idea. 12 is pretty good, maybe 14 if you want more in a certain skill. 8 (imposiible on a drow) is a mistake. That leaves only enough for Concentration or UMD. Even on a human, I would go 10 or 12.

Bloodcraven
03-23-2010, 08:23 AM
Cha and CON are the important ones. Dont waste resourses geting any other stat item till later on the game. Dont get me wrong, IF you find a Wis item that fits in use it. Str will prevent issues with enfeeblement. Int is totally useless on a sorc.

You will NEED:
Cha item
Con Item
GFL Item
Potency Item
Power/magi/archmagi Item
Heavy Fort Item

Level 8 +

Deathblock item
Silverflame Amulet

Things you can add but do not need
Wis Item
Str Item

Things you should not ever need

Int Item (some quests like von 3 need an int to hit runes so fox cunning pot or int item may be useful in this quest)
Dex Item

Avandaril_Faust
03-23-2010, 08:23 AM
Sorcs that can raise dead have to be useful :D

Matuse
03-23-2010, 08:37 AM
Basically everyone needs a +6 item for Con, Dex, and Wis, for the saves boost if nothing else.


Like toughness, +3 hp, but now its +3 hp/+1 per level, which would total 23 extra hit points right? I find myself wondering if its worth a feat to even take toughness, because by the time you are level 20, wouldn't most hits cause more than 23 damage anyway?

I would never consider building any character under any circumstances* who did not take Toughness.

Yes, it's +23 hp by itself, but it also unlocks racial toughness enhancements (and class enhancements for some classes...sorc is not one of these), for another 20 hp.

43 extra HP? Yes, yes, and more yes. Hitpoints are how you survive. There's no such thing as too many.

*Unless those circumstances were a hagglebot or mule character who was literally never going to be attacked by anything, ever.

r3dl4nce
03-23-2010, 08:42 AM
Well, I don't know how many times, playing PNP D&D, that those 3 points made a big difference.DDO is not PnP. DDO is DDO. Higher you level up, higher the numbers become to be useful. AC around 30 can be useful around level 8-9. At level 20 you should have 60+ or can even have 10. Same for saving throws. Example of Blasphemy spell in Tower of Despair if you have not boots. Or you can get 36+ or it's better you have boots/scarab. So 2-3 points are not so good if you are not focused for a task (AC, saving throws, ...)



Like toughness, +3 hp, but now its +3 hp/+1 per level, which would total 23 extra hit points right? And by taking a single toughness you can open up toughness based enhancements , ranging from another +20hp to +70hp. With a single feat and some AP spent

wamjratl1
03-23-2010, 08:42 AM
... I find myself wondering if its worth a feat to even take toughness, because by the time you are level 20, wouldn't most hits cause more than 23 damage anyway? Unless I am not understanding toughness as well as I should.

Remember that the Toughness feat opens a line of enhancements (fairly cheap ones) to give you more hp. It's worth it on any toon, IMO. With the enhancements, my Drow wiz has 43 add'l HP from Toughness and the enhancements.

Memnir
03-23-2010, 08:52 AM
After Charisma, focus on Constitution.
A lot of Constitution.

Avandaril_Faust
03-23-2010, 08:55 AM
Thank you all very much. I didn't know about the enhancements. Like I mentioned, I haven't been on too long. And I wasn't necessarily complaining that DDO and PNP are too unsimilar, I just said Im still stuck in that state of mind where a +3 to anything is better than +0.

I will now officially take toughness as my level 3 feat as a sorc :D

Good thing too, I was leaning toward TWF :P (thats a joke).

Avandaril_Faust
03-23-2010, 09:06 AM
Another off topic question.

My 1st level spells are mage armor, burning hands and summ monster I.

What is a good spell path for Sorcs to follow. I believe I have 300 and some odd SP. I want to be effective in combat but able to defend myself as well.

Any advice on a fourth 1st level spell and maybe 2nd level ones since that is coming up soon as well?

r3dl4nce
03-23-2010, 09:10 AM
My 1st level spells are mage armor, burning hands and summ monster I.
IMHO it's better Hypnotism, niac cold ray, nightshield

werk
03-23-2010, 09:17 AM
Sorcs that can raise dead have to be useful :D

As useful as a doctor that can rewire an old buick.


Stick to your role, if you have to cover for others...get other others.

Anneliese
03-24-2010, 06:14 AM
Stick to your role, if you have to cover for others...get other others.

I would say that at higher levels, having UMD is part of your role as a sorc.


You will farm deleras a few times anyway -> VotM and Cartouche

You will craft a SP item anyway -> +5/6 to UMD

You will hunt for Charisma tomes and items anyway

You can already scroll or cast Greater Heroism.

Wizzly_Bear
03-24-2010, 07:03 AM
As useful as a doctor that can rewire an old buick.


Stick to your role, if you have to cover for others...get other others.
Yes, but you must'nt forget a much older and more applicable adage.

**** happens.

Carry some backup gear.

Spiffyspiffy
03-24-2010, 10:24 AM
At least some Int so that you have enough skill points to max Concentration and UMD with perhaps some left over for a few ranks in Balance, Jump, and Tumble isn't a bad idea. 12 is pretty good, maybe 14 if you want more in a certain skill. 8 (imposiible on a drow) is a mistake. That leaves only enough for Concentration or UMD. Even on a human, I would go 10 or 12.

Jump is utterly worthless to put points into, as an arcane especially. Its value maxes at 40, which is easily reached with a +30 spell and a small item.

Balance and tumble isn't going to get high enough to be useful no matter what you do, but if you insist, get a +2 int tome at level 7 and use those points. Don't use creation points except on a WF.

honkuimushi
03-24-2010, 01:08 PM
Jump is utterly worthless to put points into, as an arcane especially. Its value maxes at 40, which is easily reached with a +30 spell and a small item.

Balance and tumble isn't going to get high enough to be useful no matter what you do, but if you insist, get a +2 int tome at level 7 and use those points. Don't use creation points except on a WF.

I don't like using up a spot for a Jump item. At high levels it's possible to swap in an item for major jumps. But at lower levels where Jump is just +10 and you may be using your level 1 slots for other spells, the mobility is nice. At high levels, with a positive Str, which you probably want for encumberance issues, GH and a Bull's Str, you could probably reach 40 without an item anyways. And it's nice to not lose all of your mobility around beholders or after a dispel.

Similarly, I've found that a score of even 5-10 makes a big difference in Balance and Tumble. Your Dex will hurt a bit, but you don't have an armor penalty. Tumble is mostly useful for not losing hp from falls and not having to switch in a feather fall item or cast Feather Fall for every jump. Again, with Heroism or GH and maybe a Cat's Grace, 1 or 2 ranks will probably save you a lot of hp in the long run. Balance checks can be tougher, but reaching 10 -15 should't be that hard with only a few ranks. And I've found that I succeed on most balance checks in that range.

Tomes are fine if you have them, but insufficient to max Concentration and UMD without putting any points into Int except on a human. 10-12 isn't that large of an investment. Is it required, no. But I like skills enough to make it worth it. It's a matter of taste.

Avandaril_Faust
03-24-2010, 01:15 PM
Another question:

How useful is obscuring mist, really?

Demonfire
03-24-2010, 01:22 PM
I'm asking because I'm wondering if I should even bother equipping +6 ability items that add to WIS, DEX or STR. Such items would be a big drain on my item slots, and so far I can't see how they would significantly help my caster drow sorc... carrying capacity has never been an issue for me, so I don't really see the need for STR, and I don't know what sorcs need WIS or DEX for...

Help is appreciated!

The only real thing you should ever consider when rolling a sorc is not goin with a drow at all!

Warforged sorcerer FTW!

Seriously.. the WF -2 charisma is just a trap, at level 20 it means a minimal lost of mana compare to another class.
you could easely end up with a charisma 32 (36 with +3 tome and shroud item) and consti 30 on your sorcerer wich means over 400 hp compare to a gimp drow!

my 2 cents

Superspeed_Hi5
03-24-2010, 01:24 PM
Another question:

How useful is obscuring mist, really?

More useful then lets say Mage armor. AC on a caster is pointless and whats going to be keeping you alive is not geting hit. So that 20% miss chance while in the mist is quite useful. Mage armor only gives you +4AC which you can get on black widow bracers and delete that spell.
Displacement is whats going to keep you alive so once you have access to it - I suggest taking it.

Superspeed_Hi5
03-24-2010, 01:28 PM
The only real thing you should ever consider when rolling a sorc is not goin with a drow at all!

Warforged sorcerer FTW!

Seriously.. the WF -2 charisma is just a trap, at level 20 it means a minimal lost of mana compare to another class.
you could easely end up with a charisma 32 (36 with +3 tome and shroud item) and consti 30 on your sorcerer wich means over 400 hp compare to a gimp drow!

my 2 cents

Please the main reason to be WF is so you can healz yourself. My human wiz has 312 hp at 20, 352 in lich form. I dont forsee an extra 50-75 hp being the difference between keeping yourself alive or being gunk on someones boot heel. Some might disagree. See my displacement comment ^^.

Wyrmnax
03-24-2010, 02:05 PM
The only real thing you should ever consider when rolling a sorc is not goin with a drow at all!

Warforged sorcerer FTW!

Seriously.. the WF -2 charisma is just a trap, at level 20 it means a minimal lost of mana compare to another class.
you could easely end up with a charisma 32 (36 with +3 tome and shroud item) and consti 30 on your sorcerer wich means over 400 hp compare to a gimp drow!

my 2 cents

The only real disvantage of WF is the -2 DC.

Avandaril_Faust
03-24-2010, 02:28 PM
My issue with WF...

I just can't get into them. If I were to play PNP D&D I prolly could never play a WF.. no more than I could play a dwarf or 1/2 orc (Or Athasian Elf).

I think self healing like that can be a deal breaker tho! My favorite sorc guidmate is WF :D

honkuimushi
03-25-2010, 06:38 AM
Another question:

How useful is obscuring mist, really?

This may have been changed, but Obscuring mist was a very party unfriendly spell. The black cloud that kobold shamans cast on hard and elite is obscuring mist. It used to have the same graphic for friendly and enemy casts. I think they toned it down, but it still interferes with vision. In the wrong area, it can be more deadly to your allies than your enemies. You also have to deal with the fact that the cloud is stationary so you have to recast it every time you want it.

In the long term, Blur is a better choice. You have to cast it once per person, but it will last several minutes Extended. And later, Displacement is even better, though on a pretty short timer.

As for first level spells, Shield is nice. At low levels, combined with a Mage Armor clickie or Black Widow bracers, you may actually have a useful AC. Shield also blocks Magic Missles. At higher level, Nightshield may be the better choice since AC with lose it's usefulness.

On the offensive side, Hypnotism is probably the best CC spell. Niac's Cold Ray can do a lot of damage against low Reflex save enemies and Magic Missile is a solid stand-by.

As was mentioned before, the Jump spell will become a favorite, allowing you to use mobility for defense and by mastering the Jump-cast, allow spell casting without slowing down.

vVAnjilaVv
03-25-2010, 06:50 AM
Wis and Dex help with saves, but that's about it. You think those 3 points will really help in a d20 system?

Str would help for when you become exhausted or enfeebled or in some other way lose Str and become helpless easily (fire immune shadows/gargoyles/etc).

Sorcs only really need Con and Cha.

Yeah actually those +3 points are pretty huge, on most of my characters if I add +3 to save or to hit I see a dramatic increase in succesful saves and if it's for attack a lot more contact.

The question is, are the points better spent elsewhere?

vVAnjilaVv
03-25-2010, 06:57 AM
Drow elf mandatory skill allotment.....

UMD
Balance
Concentration
Tumble (one point total at creation just so u have it unlocked...it's useful)

There is no reason why a drow cannot put 2 points into int to get this...same with a human as well.

Other races mey be more of a stretch....but not maxxing these three skills is a waste IMO.

NO matter how high ur con is, ur a sorc...ur still going to be squishier than most everyone else.....if u get knocked down u wanna get up fast.

U take a bunch of damage while ur down...it sure is nice to be able to use a heal scroll on urself....as well as save party members when in a crunch.

Doesn't matter how fast u cast....ur still going to be prone to making many concentration checks, and Quicken is pretty much a wasted feat on a sorc.