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transtemporal
03-19-2010, 03:18 AM
My old wf 16wiz/2rog/1bbn is on the verge of multiple TR's. This toon was originally a str-based TWF evasion battlewiz with full OL/DD/Search skills. He was a somewhat successful melee, a very successsful rogue and a somewhat not-too-cr*ppy caster. I've stubbornly advocated tri-class battlewiz builds in other threads but I don't think I'd build a tri-class again. Basically the loss in casting power stuck in my craw and no wiz capstone existed at the time.

I still like the battlewiz concept (especially for soloing) and with the amount of build points, feats and enhancement options a wf tr wizard gets - a plain wf max con, max int build seems like a criminal waste. So I'm toying with the idea of TRing him into a fully-functional, maxish-dc pure wiz, drop the rogue skills/evasion but retain the melee option...

Wondering if anyone else has gone the non-multiclass battlewiz route for a TR, how successful it was and if anyone has any tips. Cheers!

Rough build sketch below.

Spellcastery stuff:
DCs and spell pen I'm not worried about at all. DCs will be in the very high 30's, spell pen will be 30 or so.

Stats:
16 starting str, 26 str with minimal grinding, 30 with a lot of grinding
17 starting con, 30 con with minimal grinding, 34 with a lot of grinding
18 starting int, 40 int with minimal grinding

AC: Displace and stoneskin, no ac to speak of
HP: 507
SP: 2100

Attack profile:
+26 first attack or +41 stars-aligned raid-buffed (minII GA without divine power clickie/scroll)
+36 first attack or +51 stars-aligned raid buffed (minII GA with divine power clickie/scroll)

Feats:
Quicken, empower, maximise, heighten, extend
WP: great axe (swap for ITHF when masters touch duration is long enough not to get annoyed with the client lag)
Power attack
THF
Toughness
IC: Slashing (swap for GTHF when MinII made)
Spell Pen I (swap for something else after second TR)
Past Life Feat: Wiz

Enhancements:
WF grt weapon aptitude 3
WF power attack 3
WF con 2
Caster enhancements

Gear (off the top of my head):
MinII GA
Shintao set
Archmage set
Torc
Tharnes gogs
Caster gears

wyvernmonarch7
03-19-2010, 09:02 AM
wow, i just read this now and thats what i was thinking exactly with my currently gimpy 312 hp drow wiz.

pretty much that exact build, all the metamagics, thf, ithf, toughness, then some combo of 2nd toughness, spell conjuration/spell pen, or power attack.

my main problem is where to put the conc opposition items. goggles, then cant use tharnes, bracers, golves? boots?

Gol
03-19-2010, 09:22 AM
I'm actually currently debating converting my TWF battlemage to THF so I can dump Dex and pick up enough Int for primary caster duties. Pulling a +4 intel tome has a lot to do with it, honestly.

Kriogen
03-19-2010, 09:24 AM
...So I'm toying with the idea of TRing him into a fully-functional, maxish-dc pure wiz, drop the rogue skills/evasion but retain the melee option...
Booo ... traitor. Multiclass FTW! :p

Yeah. It will work. You have the same stats, same feats, same ending Str, BAB, twink. The difference is that as pure Wiz you have no evasion/skills/attack speed boost. You do get Capstone. Within +/-1, result is more or less the same.

I didn't had pure wizzy like that. I don't do "pure". But a friend on euro server did. Pure WF Wizard, caster with a big axe/sword, max Int with solid Str.

It's Evasion or Capstone. At the end of the day, it's this. Do you want Evasion or Capstone. The rest is the same.

Phidius
03-19-2010, 10:10 AM
Considering how often mobs spam Dispel, you should think about keeping WP: Great Axe. On a build that needs all the to-hit it can get, I don't think you want to have to cast Master's Touch every 30 seconds.

transtemporal
03-19-2010, 04:39 PM
my main problem is where to put the conc opposition items. goggles, then cant use tharnes, bracers, golves? boots?

Good question. With telvis, I'm working towards the idea that the glacier set will be unnecessary, so probably put concord op item in bracer slot. HP item not sure. I would say cloak but the epic napkin might be turn out to be teh uborz. :) If they ever fix the red dragon helm, that'll be his helm. I don't need tharnes on all the time I guess...

Lerincho
03-19-2010, 04:43 PM
My old wf 16wiz/2rog/1bbn is on the verge of multiple TR's. This toon was originally a str-based TWF evasion battlewiz with full OL/DD/Search skills. He was a somewhat successful melee, a very successsful rogue and a somewhat not-too-cr*ppy caster. I've stubbornly advocated tri-class battlewiz builds in other threads but I don't think I'd build a tri-class again. Basically the loss in casting power stuck in my craw and no wiz capstone existed at the time.

I still like the battlewiz concept (especially for soloing) and with the amount of build points, feats and enhancement options a wf tr wizard gets - a plain wf max con, max int build seems like a criminal waste. So I'm toying with the idea of TRing him into a fully-functional, maxish-dc pure wiz, drop the rogue skills/evasion but retain the melee option...



and here you promised you got rid of the gimp! sounds like a fun build bud, hope to see it in action on day.

transtemporal
03-19-2010, 04:51 PM
I'm actually currently debating converting my TWF battlemage to THF so I can dump Dex and pick up enough Int for primary caster duties. Pulling a +4 intel tome has a lot to do with it, honestly.

Did I mention I hate you? ;)

I actually LR'ed the old toon into an int-based THF evasion battlewiz and thats going pretty well. Dumping dex completely enabled me to put it into int so hopefully he'll be a more functional wiz for elite and epic.

I think the big thing about this toon that irks me is that he can't do melee without DP clickies really. I don't mind this playstyle-wise as its still easy to manage compared to the clickiness of my rogue/mnk. And I don't mind it inventory-wise, even though he needs to carry's 7 sets of gloves with 5 clicks each.

The thing thats annoying is quests with dispelling mobs and beholders. Hate those guys.

transtemporal
03-19-2010, 04:56 PM
It's Evasion or Capstone. At the end of the day, it's this. Do you want Evasion or Capstone. The rest is the same.

Yup. The current version can quite happily stand in the middle of a bunch of mobs with spells going off everywhere and come out unscathed, whereas the pure version is gonna take some big hits. I figured a pure version is gonna be more use in elite and epic, but heh, if it turns out I'm wrong that can be the next tr. :)

transtemporal
03-19-2010, 05:02 PM
Considering how often mobs spam Dispel, you should think about keeping WP: Great Axe. On a build that needs all the to-hit it can get, I don't think you want to have to cast Master's Touch every 30 seconds.

Thats why I have rahls might (force) as a backup. :) But yeah, dispellers and beholders are a PITA. I may have a spare feat after the second TR though, so maybe I'll look at that then.

OK, wiz TR newbie question: can I take the purchaseable wiz past life feat multiple times? I'm assuming not. That would be crazy unbalanced.

transtemporal
03-19-2010, 05:05 PM
and here you promised you got rid of the gimp! sounds like a fun build bud, hope to see it in action on day.

Nah, I didn't get rid of him, I just quietly dropped him out of guild so I didn't have to listen to Dark's grumbling. ;)

Gol
03-19-2010, 05:07 PM
Btw, how is a pure version /that/ much better in epic? HP is so high nuking is ineffective. They all have epic ward so Insta kill is ineffective. Is it just for the spell pen on irresistible dance?

Lerincho
03-19-2010, 05:13 PM
Nah, I didn't get rid of him, I just quietly dropped him out of guild so I didn't have to listen to Dark's grumbling. ;)

definitely let me know when you're on the TR, if we have people in level we will help you out anytime.

Khellendros13
03-19-2010, 05:25 PM
Just a quick note - You cannot take GTHF on a pure Wiz or even 2 fighter splash. You need BaB +11 :(

I also wouldn't mind seeing the breakdown for the end ability scores and calculated to hit.

Mainly because I LR'd my pure wf wiz into a 18/2 wiz fighter. BaB +30 give or take due to weapon with DP on, power attack on.

Logic
03-19-2010, 05:45 PM
Question. With an 18 wiz/2 fighter the BAB at lv20 is 11. Once you hit BAB of 11 can you swap out a lower level feat for GTHF?

Also if your 20th level was fighter (not wiz) could you take GTWF at lv20?

I've never feat swapped so I'm trying to understand what the swapping limitations are.

Thanks.

Calebro
03-19-2010, 06:00 PM
Question. With an 18 wiz/2 fighter the BAB at lv20 is 11. Once you hit BAB of 11 can you swap out a lower level feat for GTHF?

Also if your 20th level was fighter (not wiz) could you take GTWF at lv20?

I've never feat swapped so I'm trying to understand what the swapping limitations are.

Thanks.

No, you'd have to take the 2nd fighter level at 20th and use the bonus feat you get from it.
That's the ONLY way to get it.

*edit for the orange part I missed previously somehow. You've got it.
The swapping limitations are that you had to have been eligible for the feat you're swapping to at the time you took the feat that you're replacing.

Logic
03-19-2010, 06:06 PM
Ah thanks.

Gol
03-19-2010, 06:08 PM
Just a quick note - You cannot take GTHF on a pure Wiz or even 2 fighter splash. You need BaB +11 :(Wrong.


No, you'd have to take the 2nd fighter level at 20th and use the bonus feat you get from it. That's the ONLY way to get it.Right.

Khellendros13
03-19-2010, 08:53 PM
Wrong.

Right.

I stand corrected - I took 2nd fighter at 20 and could of sworn I did not see GTHF as an option for feat. I might LR again and double check that.

transtemporal
03-23-2010, 01:20 AM
Btw, how is a pure version /that/ much better in epic? HP is so high nuking is ineffective. They all have epic ward so Insta kill is ineffective. Is it just for the spell pen on irresistible dance?

Hmm, thats a good point Gol. I must admit I hadn't put a great deal of thought into it. The most effective caster strategies I've seen in epic are basically web, mass hold monster and irresistible dance and of those - one has sr but no save, one has a save but no sr and one has both. So I guess the argument that 1 dc and 2 sr is gonna make a difference... who knows, maybe I'll change my mind. I was standing in the middle of living spells and fire eles in kobold last night thinking - would I be able to do that with a pure wiz? Probably not so much. :)