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Xviilock
03-16-2010, 11:09 PM
1. A tested and true all around raid viable class and corresponding build

What do I mean by viable?

I realize this game is ever changing, along with encounters. What I need is a class/build thats going to be able to function on as many different raids as possible.

What do I mean by tested and true?

I realize that not everyone agrees on Class/Race/Build. It would be appreciated if anyone with a (good, critically acclaimed) standing knowledge and know-how would be willing to assist. I dont want to waste my time on a combination that Im going to have to reroll after two months of play.

What am I not looking for?
FVS/Cleric.

What am I leaning towards?
Something relatively inexpensive to maintain.
Can solo as required.
Possibly a DPS tank (Not sure how it relates to the above)

Shishizaru
03-16-2010, 11:44 PM
1. A tested and true all around raid viable class and corresponding build

What do I mean by viable?

I realize this game is ever changing, along with encounters. What I need is a class/build thats going to be able to function on as many different raids as possible.

What do I mean by tested and true?

I realize that not everyone agrees on Class/Race/Build. It would be appreciated if anyone with a (good, critically acclaimed) standing knowledge and know-how would be willing to assist. I dont want to waste my time on a combination that Im going to have to reroll after two months of play.

What am I not looking for?
FVS/Cleric.

What am I leaning towards?
Something relatively inexpensive to maintain.
Can solo as required.
Possibly a DPS tank (Not sure how it relates to the above)

First, a question: Are you new to the game or just new to the forums? If just new to the forums, I guess you can ignore my post of generalities, since you likely already know all of it.


Anyways, I doubt I'm the kind of guy you were looking for to answer your questions, but...

1) Almost any solid build will be raid viable for every raid. General guidelines being something along the lines of 400+ HP and 100% fort for a melee. If you are hoping you won't make yourself gimp (and thus useless), then there are two things you need to pay attention to: Starting stats and Multiclassing.

1) Starting stats can gimp you if you do not build your character properly. For melee classes, this generally means using CON as a dump stat. It shouldn't be (on any character). You'll also want to research which classes are heavily reliant on what stats (i.e. INT for a Wiz, CHA for a Sorc, WIS for a cleric). Failing to put in adequate points into those stats will also gimp you.

It's also good to keep in mind which stats are more useful on what characters. For example, 15-16 DEX on a melee for TWF. Higher INT on a Rogue if hoping to get a lot of traps. Higher CHA on a Pally if hoping to take advantage of Smite, Divine Sacrifice, and Lay on Hands.

2) Multiclassing can gimp you if you don't know what you're doing. In general, you should plan out your multiclass (all the way to 20) before you even roll the character. Don't multiclass if you don't know what makes the multiclass tick. If you are new to the game, I wouldn't suggest multiclassing until a bit later.

That being said, most solid builds will be playable into the foreseeable future. The only real drastic changes you might get affected by are the implementation of new PrE's (or new tiers of existing ones). The Enhancement side is pretty easy to take care of. If Feats are required, that might require some work, but it's not impossible to fix. If you took a multiclass before hitting 12 or 18 in the class you want a higher PrE tier for, then you'll probably have to shell out some cash for reincarnation. So when you plan your multiclass, it's important to understand what you gain as well as what you lose (or have the potential to lose). Going pure tends to mitigate your risk of losing out on PrE's as much as possible.



I'd say that melee classes are the "cheapest" classes to maintain. You don't need to spend much in terms of resources. You'll want some healing pots/wands for emergencies and for topping up between fights, probably some resists, and some pots/wands for getting rid of various statuses (curse, poison, etc). Every character will want to be carrying these though. Haste/Heroism/etc pots are nice too, although you can often get those from friendly casters. Note that some melee's (particularly those with good to high UMD) will also pack some Heal scrolls and/or Raise Dead and the like. It's generally good to help the healers out.

Arcane casters shouldn't rack up too high a bill either. In addition to the aforementioned stuff, casters need to buy spell components (which are relatively cheap). Possibly some wands for buffing if they need to conserve SP. Mnemonic's may be required if you have bad SP management (or something terrible happens).

Cleric/FvS tend to be the most expensive to maintain due to the need to carry extra wands/scrolls for back-up healing and/or cooldown circumvention. Mnemonics as well if the part is not doing so well (or hit lag and such). You said you didn't want to play those though, so I guess you can ignore that.



Without high level gear, soloing at higher levels tends to be difficult. There are a number of solo builds out there which I presume are also raid viable. I'd also assume they are less "specialized" then non solo oriented builds, but I'm not well versed in solo builds at any rate.



If you want to be a DPS tank, I'm assuming you want to be a melee who "tanks" via holding aggro with DPS. If you want to be a high AC high DPS melee, it's probably not going to happen (must sacrifice one to get the other). A pure Barb would be a pretty basic build that would be able to accomplish this. High HP and high damage output makes you very good at getting aggro and surviving it.

I suppose something like a Paladin would be able to be a DPS tank in some regards. In that even a DPS specced Paladin will be able to throw out 4 LoH's for a good amount of healing, meaning you'll be able to survive aggro for longer periods of time without a healer having to watch over you. Do note that Pally's tend to do burst DPS so a pure Barb might take aggro off you through sheer damage output.

Xviilock
03-16-2010, 11:57 PM
Exactly the kind of information I required, thank you very much for the post and the time.

Sirea
03-17-2010, 12:05 AM
For example, 15-16 DEX on a melee for TWF.

Fixed that for you.

Actually I think melee classes are one of the most expensive when you start factoring in high-end gear and such, and keeping stocked on potions can get expensive as well, especially if you don't have a hagglebot to buy the stuff for you at a discounted rate. Healers only need to buy as many resources as they are willing to spend.

Carlll
03-17-2010, 12:10 AM
Most staple melee raid class is probably the Barbarian. Not necessarily because it's the "best" DPSer but because people know what they get - high to top DPS with lots of HP.
Unfortunately, Barbs are quite bad for soloing so this is contradicting your self-reliance goal.

The melee classes:
Barb: Splash 2 Rogue for Evasion, UMD and Sneak Attacks (uncommon) or go pure for more Barb stuff. Solid raid char, not great at soloing.
Fighter: Go pure for highest DPS or splash 2 Rogue or 2 Monk for Evasion etc. Pure very high DPS, might be mistaken for a defensive tank though.
Paladin: Pure for highest DPS or 2 Rogue or 2 Monk for Evasion etc. Very high DPS vs Evil Outsiders and Undead. Sucks against everything else. Two-trick pony. I dont like them. Self-healing generally overrated since it's irrelevant in a group.
Ranger: Rather low DPS compared to the other melee classes. Balanced toward the Ranger 18/ Rogue 1/ Monk 1 build; Only viable Ranger build really, from a pure power gamer perspective. Can achieve high-ish DPS, high AC and full UMD. Once fully geared a one-man-army and king of solo while still being a valuable addition to raids. Suffers from lower HP once his AC fails which can limit him on Elite and Epic.
Rogue: Potentially highest DPS but heavily dependant on lack of aggro and fortification. Raid bosses fort ranges from 50% to 75%. Best build probably the Tempest Monk splash potential tank 13 Rogue/ 6 Ranger/ 1 Monk with Intimidate. Not recommended for a tried and trusted raid build.
Monk: HIGHLY dependant on top end gear. Gimmicky uses in latest content with the anti-stun buff. Probably very high DPS against stuff with heavy DR if Dark Path (Portals, Elementals). Generally underestimated but with uber gear probably seriously uber. Not popular in raids due to gear reliance/underestimation.

Supporty stuff worth mentioning is the Warchanter Bard:
Sing DPS song then smashy smashy. Take Toughness early as Bards are squishy. 1 Bard is always welcome in a raid, 2 less so.

Arcane Casters are a no-no if you want a raid build. They are generally unneeded (fully substituted by a Warchanter) or just used as kiters (gimmicky use in the latest raid).

If by DPS-tank you mean a build that grabs and holds DPS aggro of raid bosses and seriously tanks them, you need a heavily specialized build to do it right. If you mean just a melee guy who can handle his own aggro, look above.

Sirea
03-17-2010, 12:13 AM
Ranger: Rather low DPS compared to the other melee classes. Balanced toward the Ranger 18/ Rogue 1/ Monk 1 build; Only viable Ranger build really, from a pure power gamer perspective.

lol


Arcane Casters are a no-no if you want a raid build. They are generally unneeded (fully substituted by a Warchanter) or just used as kiters (gimmicky use in the latest raid).

lol

Gadget2775
03-17-2010, 12:43 AM
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=147492

tihocan
03-17-2010, 08:05 AM
I'd recommend the Tempest build in this thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=232660). Useful in all DDO raids, with good self-sufficiency and solo-ability.