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Shade
03-16-2010, 05:14 PM
Well the big secret is out, Fernando let us know Half-Orcs are coming!

So here's how I would envision them being translated to DDO.

Gonna mainly compare them to how they translated Dwarves, as their my favorite melee race and what I will be TR'ing one of my Barbarians from.

First off, Pen and Paper srd reference stats:

Half-Orcs

Also see the Half-Orc monster listing.


+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.

A half-orc’s starting Intelligence score is always at least 3. If this adjustment would lower the character’s score to 1 or 2, his score is nevertheless 3.
Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: Half-orcs (and orcs) can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and half-orcs can function just fine with no light at all.
Orc Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-orc is considered an orc.
Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.
Favored Class: Barbarian. A multiclass half-orc’s barbarian class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty.


Most of this can be directly translated for DDO. There a pretty straightforward race. Bad caster stats, but great for melee. What isn't direct is of course racial enhancements.. In general in DDO these are modified versions of Class-Enhancements, selected from that races favored class.
Example:
Dwarf - Favored Class: Fighter
Gets:
Fighter Armor mastery. Armored Agility, Shield Mastery, Tactics and Toughness*
*Used to be the exclusive one and only class to get racial toughness. But this was later rebalanced to limit their uniqueness to only the higher ranks, with the lower ranks being available to all races.
So 5 lines worth of modified Fighter enhancements.
By the same token, Half-Orcs, as Favored class: Barbarian, should get roughly 5 Barbarian class enhancements, modified for race.

Suggested Favored-Class based enhancements:
Half-Orc Charge:
Cost: 1,2,3AP
Copy of Barbarian Sprint boost, but modified to be 5% less effective per rank. Stacks with Barbarian Sprint boost.
Half-Orc Rage:
Cost: 1,2,3 AP
If you can rage, your Rage Lasts 20%/35%/50% Longer
This includes past life feat rage, so pure fighters with pastlife Barbarian can get some decent Half-Orc fury going! Stacks with Barbarian Extended Rage
Half-Orc Fury Boost:
Cost: 2,4,6AP
Modified version of Barbarian damage boost. Provides +25%/30%/35% boost to your base damage with melee or unarmed attacks for 30 seconds. Cooldown: 40 seconds. 5 Charges, not increaded by extra action boost enhancement lines and does not put other boosts on timer.
Half-Orc Taunt:
Cost: 1,2,3 AP
Passive +1/2/3 bonus to intimidate.. Mainly a flavour one to represent Half-Orcs fearful pressence in ebberon.

Racial Stat enhancement: Pretty standard, should work the same as all other races with a stat bonus:
Half-Orc Strength I/II
Cost: 2/4 AP. +1/2 Bonus to strength

Now most races also get a few unique racial enhancements, often boosting there base abilites. Dwarves get Dwarven Spell resistance and Dwarven Axe damage, Humans get human versatility, Elves get various weapon damage bonuses (bows/longswords/falcions), etc. Half-Orc kind of lack any kind of special racial abilities beyond their core stats, so this is pretty much open to anything:
Half-Orc unique racial enhancement:
True Orc Blood:
You abandon your half-human heritage to become more like a real Orc. -2 penalty to wisdom, +3 damage with all two-handed melee weaponry, +2 damage with all 1 handed melee weaponry or unarmed attacks.

Discuss!
What do you think Half-Orcs stats/enhancements should be like?

Riggs
03-16-2010, 05:30 PM
Actually half orcs - in Eberron - would not be favored class barbarian. Since they are one of the early civilized races. Just giving them a +2 str doesnt make them barbs.
If anything favored class should be druid and ranger.

I would say druid enhancements, as they were the original Eberron race to be druids (other than a big sentient tree) - but Druids are not in the cards apparently. And the half orc race is the main part of the tracking/finding guild, so;

True sight dragonmarks
Find the path (whatever that would end up being in DDO)
Search, spot, insight bonuses Maybe a 'locate object' new spell/mark that pops up a giant arrow looking for stuff.

Stealth bonuses, tracking bonuses (well search and spot basically), maybe speed bonuses and some kind of freedom of movement boost (from thousands of years of running through harsh terrain and swamps).

Combat bonuses vs abberations and demons, like a natural stacking favored enemy starting at +2 damage say, boostable up to 5 or 6 with enhancements - making a half orc ranger the mighty beholder and mind flayer killer(and whatever abberations get added later as Xoriat spawn come running through more portals).

race enhancements for abilities should include str hopefully, as the only race with a str bonus (although dwarves should get one too from hundreds of years of swinging hammers and axes and such), and of course wisdom(re first druids)

Nick_RC
03-16-2010, 05:31 PM
Yeah can't wait to see what they do. Just a note they will make sick battlclerics/fvs also. Be interesting to see what racial weapon they give them for fvs. I always associated a greataxe with them for some reason...

Not sure if the sprint boost is a good idea. It would be pretty powerful heh. I'd like to see;
1. The PA line in there for sure. PA is abit of a no brainer.
2. Maybe some barb elemental resists stacking with barb.
3. Racial stats in str...(possibly overpowerful...maybe this OR the PA line)
4. Intim + random junk for skills.
5. Dmg boost(agree)

I like ur rage ideas. I think it will be a tough balancing act as if they do pump str/pa it will be hard to play any other from an efficiency point. (WF arcane healing is still great tho..)

N

Delt
03-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Wow, good luck with that wish list :)

I/II racial STR progression, obviously
+2 and +2 racial weapon progression (Falchion and/or greataxe)
Power Attack boost (WF copy)

Beyond that, I haven't a clue. I can't really see any reason to boost their speed. One enhancement towards their favored class, maybe, but the ones you have are pretty OP. Plus, isn't that stuff usually handled in the PrE or class enhancements.

I would love to see some negatives tossed into the mix -- innate weakness to "light" spells or -10% item durability. But I don't think that'll ever happen.

Gunga
03-16-2010, 05:36 PM
HO Fave So fo sho'.

Shassa
03-16-2010, 05:45 PM
Actually half orcs - in Eberron - would not be favored class barbarian.

I'm pretty sure that Favored Class: Barb comes right out of the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

I like some of your suggestions, though.

Shade
03-16-2010, 05:46 PM
I/II racial STR progression, obviously
+2 and +2 racial weapon progression (Falchion and/or greataxe)
Power Attack boost (WF copy)

Beyond that, I haven't a clue. I can't really see any reason to boost their speed. One enhancement towards their favored class, maybe, but the ones you have are pretty OP. Plus, isn't that stuff usually handled in the PrE or class enhancements.
.

Nope none of those are like PrEs. There like Barbarian enhancments, but weaker. Exactly the same as I've explained Dwarves get ftr enhancements.

Dwarves getting the most hitpoints, uber tactics that make up the difference of +6 strength, highest AC, highest savs, etc etc could also be called a "overpowered".

I'd put a 99% chance on Half-Orcs being a premium, purchasable race. If they actually want people to purchase them, they're gonna have to be very competitive with warforged and Dwarf for melee classes.. So no, you can just copy and paste WF power attack in there and call it day, they won't be doing that.

Plus thats boring and unoriginal. Warforged are huge and masters of two handed weapons as such, but they only have 3 fingers, so they can't hit the broadside of a barn. Thats warforged power attack, thats a unique racial feature and should remain unique. Thats a reason to purchase the warforged race. They need something else for Half-Orcs.

I originally though Falcions too.. Because in that 1 orc quest in the game - every Orc has rage and uses a falcion - even the casters!.. But they gave the falcion damage to Elves already, so it's kinda an overlap. Guess it couldn't hurt anything.. But I'd like to a see more generalist bonus for them, as they are THE melee DPS race.

+2 racial str would defeintely NOT be overpowered - it would be the minimum expected. 2 strength in a game where player scan get over 90 points is not a big deal.

Re: Ebberons Orcs not being Barbarians.. I dunno the lore, I don't read the books.. But I know for a fact that every single Orc in DDO is a Barbarian. Go play "feast or famine" and look for yourself (oh and take off ur heavy fort heh). They all rage and crit on a 13 with Barbarian crit rage and falcions =)

BlackSteel
03-16-2010, 05:47 PM
not a chance they'll get both STR enhancements and a PA line. might see a falchion racial weapon line tho

passive run speed enhancements would be neat and different. maybe 3/6/9% for 1/2/3 AP

maddmatt70
03-16-2010, 05:48 PM
Favored weapon greatclub is my guess. Perhaps we will get one of the unique orc weapons put in the game.. That would be fun, but I doubt it will happen.

Riggs
03-16-2010, 05:56 PM
I'm pretty sure that Favored Class: Barb comes right out of the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

I like some of your suggestions, though.

Yes, and as pointed out all in game orcs are barbarians pretty much.

Which would completely ignore the differences between the actual lore of Eberron and past D&D books (which many players will be happy with), and the fact that really - barbs dont need yet more stacking bonuses to rage and str and haste boosts.

Like, really, really not.

Shade
03-16-2010, 06:02 PM
Yes, and as pointed out all in game orcs are barbarians pretty much.

Which would completely ignore the differences between the actual lore of Eberron and past D&D books (which many players will be happy with), and the fact that really - barbs dont need yet more stacking bonuses to rage and str and haste boosts.

Like, really, really not.

Ya we do! Barbs needs love too!

We can only crit for 850!. Not enough!!! Gime my 1000 point crits !!RArrrr!!RRRRRRRARRR! Half-orc rage powerrr! :D

Inspire
03-16-2010, 06:52 PM
Orc Physical Resilience:
Levels 1(2Ap), 6(4Ap), 11(6Ap)

You gain damage reduction 1/, or improve your existing damage reduction by 1/.



And my personal hope is to introduce this old auction house tease -

Orc Martial Proficiency:

An orc with martial proficiency is granted the Orc Double Mace proficiency free.

And the attack/damage lines to go with it.

Angelus_dead
03-16-2010, 06:52 PM
1. In the Eberron setting, half orcs are favored class Barbarian. (So are Drow).

2. The official half-orc paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm#halfOrcParagon) provides ideas for AP features.

3. Movement speed that stacks with barb (or even ranger) abilities would be overpowered and anti-thematic. It could be acceptable for non-barb half-orcs to get a lesser form of barb's movement bonus though (subject to armor restrictions).

Angelus_dead
03-16-2010, 06:56 PM
My (old) suggestion for Half-Orc feats and enhancements.

Feats
Least Mark of Finding- cast See Invisibility, +2 search
Lesser Mark of Finding- cast Wild Instincts
Greater Mark of Finding- cast True Seeing
these are pretty weak, but that's consistent with most Dragonmark feats

Enhancements
Intimidate I, II, III, IV: You have a +1-+4 bonus on Intimidate.

Extra Rage I, II: You get 1,2 more uses of Barbarian Rage. If you could not previously rage, you gain the ability to rage for +2 str, +2 con, and -2 AC. That rage prevents spellcasting, and works with all other half-orc rage enhancements.

Power Rage I, II: You get +1,+2 strength while raging, which stacks with other Power Rage enhancements.

Hardy Rage I, II: You get +1,+2 constitution while raging, which stacks with other Hardy Rage enhancements.

Extend Rage I, II: Your rage lasts longer.

Demon Wastes Culture I, II, III: You get a +1,+2,+3 bonus on attack rolls, skill checks, and saving throws concerning evil aberrations and evil outsiders. Exclusive with Shadow Marsh and Droaam.

Shadow Marsh Culture I, II, III: You get a +1,+2,+3 bonus on Fortitude saves, bow damage, and Spot/Swim skills, plus +4,+8,+12 hitpoints. Exclusive with Demon Wastes and Droaam.

Droaam Culture I, II, III: You get a +1,+2,+3 bonus on damage, saves, and AC against dwarves, humans, elves, and halflings, and diplomacy and bluff. Exclusive with Demon Wastes and Shadow Marsh.

Twerpp
03-16-2010, 06:57 PM
I'm stoked too

What's their Eberron religion and all that what can we expect for FvS? Wonder if they can top Lord of Blades in melee. If they had a racial falchion, faith falchion, and racial strength that would be deliciously OP.

If turbine is gonna charge for Half-Orc they might as well make it OP like they did FvS. Sell more.

Inspire
03-16-2010, 07:06 PM
What's their Eberron religion and all that what can we expect for FvS? Wonder if they can top Lord of Blades in melee. If they had a racial falchion, faith falchion, and racial strength that would be deliciously OP.

I would assume the Dragon Below.

Angelus_dead
03-16-2010, 07:14 PM
What's their Eberron religion and all that what can we expect for FvS?
Same as regular people, but with a higher tendency to be Dark Six (which includes quarterstaff, kama, sickle, rapier, or scimitar). The orcs in Gianthold are Dragon Below cultists, which has Heavy Pick favored weapon. And Orcs who do Silver Flame can call it Kalok Shash and use longsowrd.

gavagai
03-16-2010, 07:23 PM
Same as regular people, but with a higher tendency to be Dark Six (which includes quarterstaff, kama, sickle, rapier, or scimitar). The orcs in Gianthold are Dragon Below cultists, which has Heavy Pick favored weapon. And Orcs who do Silver Flame can call it Kalok Shash and use longsowrd.

I think Heavy Pick would be great, slightly different weapon.

TBH, it has no lore precedent but I'd also like to see Half-Orc (or any race, for that matter) with Bludgeoning enhancements, like Greatclub (meh) or Maul/Warhammer.

vindicater
03-16-2010, 07:23 PM
Might as well give them all the enhancement options they want. As a frenzed bezerker ther is not really that much left over to play with. Not complaining I would take it at a higher cost. I just dont see barbariang getting overpowered becuse of some enhancement options. Mabey a line that changes all vicious damage to healing when you fall below 12% life you quit taking vicious damage becuse you have taken so much you have learned to ignore it. Second level enhancement your vicious damage actully becomes healing becuse the orc god you worship aproves of your lifestle of living on the edge. Talk about some people going for max hp two weapon Barbarian.

kingfisher
03-16-2010, 07:35 PM
just introduce some flails for them to swing dammit

Symar-FangofLloth
03-16-2010, 07:40 PM
Feats
Least Mark of Finding- cast See Invisibility, +2 search
Lesser Mark of Finding- cast Wild Instincts
Greater Mark of Finding- cast True Seeing
these are pretty weak, but that's consistent with most Dragonmark feats


These are stealing from the half-elven Mark of Detection. At least, See Invis and True Seeing belong to half-elves, not half-orcs.
If it weren't for that, I'd agree.
Also keep in mind that the half-orc d'mark can be taken by humans.

Mhykke
03-16-2010, 08:58 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how they work half orcs in, trying not to overshadow dwarves and warforged.

I mean, they give half orcs too many bonuses to damage, then basically you're looking at a race that does the same/more damage than a wf, and doesn't have the healing penalty (or the to hit penalty from wf power attack). As for the immunity advantage, there's always greensteel crafting.

The devs are walking a fine line, it's going to be interesting to see what half orc enhancements turn out to be...

Kyrn
03-16-2010, 09:00 PM
These are stealing from the half-elven Mark of Detection. At least, See Invis and True Seeing belong to half-elves, not half-orcs.
If it weren't for that, I'd agree.
Also keep in mind that the half-orc d'mark can be taken by humans.

Just 1 point
1) Wouldn't the marks be partially dependent on what the other half of the orc is?
(edited other point out, thought half-orc was a template, not full race, in PnP)


It's going to be interesting to see how they work half orcs in, trying not to overshadow dwarves and warforged.

I mean, they give half orcs too many bonuses to damage, then basically you're looking at a race that does the same/more damage than a wf, and doesn't have the healing penalty (or the to hit penalty from wf power attack). As for the immunity advantage, there's always greensteel crafting.

The devs are walking a fine line, it's going to be interesting to see what half orc enhancements turn out to be...

You do know that for every immunity you add to the greensteel, the WF gets to add another ability instead, hence still leaving the WF at an advantage, right?

Shade
03-16-2010, 10:17 PM
Orc Physical Resilience:
Levels 1(2Ap), 6(4Ap), 11(6Ap)

You gain damage reduction 1/, or improve your existing damage reduction by 1/.



And my personal hope is to introduce this old auction house tease -

Orc Martial Proficiency:

An orc with martial proficiency is granted the Orc Double Mace proficiency free.

And the attack/damage lines to go with it.

Ya i like these ones.

But double mace? pfft no one wants a 20/x2 crit wep.
They need the Orc double axe! This one would do nicely (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Orc_Double_Axe).. And a +3 racial dmg bonus with it so it sorta matches dwarfs with dwarven axes, but gets the benefit of +2 to hit as offhand is considered light.
Actually since it's exotic they need to break the rules and make it like a Khopesh too. 19/20/x3 crit.

Mhykke
03-16-2010, 11:04 PM
You do know that for every immunity you add to the greensteel, the WF gets to add another ability instead, hence still leaving the WF at an advantage, right?

Jeez, thanks for spelling it out for me, I never would have guessed. Is that how that really works? Your knowledge really blows my mind.

Now consider that there's not that many good abilities to add, and there's generally enough slots with consolidation through dragontouched armor/tod rings and belts/epic loot, that the original point still stands.

Inspire
03-16-2010, 11:08 PM
But double mace? pfft no one wants a 20/x2 crit wep.


Actually, I was hoping they would implement the double mace as a 20/x3. With the orc's naturally higher strength; and possible strength, racial damage/attack and power attack enhancements, it could be more formidable than a dwarf with a greataxe.

Angelus_dead
03-16-2010, 11:19 PM
It's going to be interesting to see how they work half orcs in, trying not to overshadow dwarves and warforged.
But it'll be simpler than preventing Favored Soul from overshadowing Cleric, and that turned out swell.


I mean, they give half orcs too many bonuses to damage, then basically you're looking at a race that does the same/more damage than a wf
That's why my suggestions are focused only in rage enhancements, which means for a non-barbarian most of the damage benefits only last 2-5 minutes.

lolwatboomer
03-17-2010, 08:15 PM
I like how you have damage boost as a %, instead a flat-out garbage +5 we get for barb damage boost 4.

Good suggestions. :)

Kyrn
03-17-2010, 08:41 PM
Mark of Finding

* Least: Identify or locate object 1/day or know direction 2/day
* Lesser: Helping hand or locate creature 1/day
* Greater: Find the path 1/day

Least: 1 minute per class level buff, increases loot value of collectables collected. (increasing loot value of chests would be overpowered)
Lesser: No direct translation, a combat-geared approximate of the ability would be similar to a temporary favored enemy buff: permanent buff (actual 10 minutes per class level), grants +2 to-hit and damage for purposes of attacking the next enemy you attack. Buff expires once the bonus is given.
Greater: Due to gameplay mechanics the exact function would have to be changed. The best approximation which would work into gameplay would be something which boosts capability to navigate/remove traps, hence: 15 second buff (counts as an action boost), grants evasion, +10 spot, +10 search, and +10 reflex against traps, and +10 to disable trap. Would either have to be toned down, or a similar ability given to mechanic rogues. (note: this does not give one the ability to actually disable traps unless they've taken disable device before, similar to how tumble works)

Shade
03-29-2010, 11:11 PM
Mark of Finding

* Least: Identify or locate object 1/day or know direction 2/day
* Lesser: Helping hand or locate creature 1/day
* Greater: Find the path 1/day

Least: 1 minute per class level buff, increases loot value of collectables collected. (increasing loot value of chests would be overpowered)
Lesser: No direct translation, a combat-geared approximate of the ability would be similar to a temporary favored enemy buff: permanent buff (actual 10 minutes per class level), grants +2 to-hit and damage for purposes of attacking the next enemy you attack. Buff expires once the bonus is given.
Greater: Due to gameplay mechanics the exact function would have to be changed. The best approximation which would work into gameplay would be something which boosts capability to navigate/remove traps, hence: 15 second buff (counts as an action boost), grants evasion, +10 spot, +10 search, and +10 reflex against traps, and +10 to disable trap. Would either have to be toned down, or a similar ability given to mechanic rogues. (note: this does not give one the ability to actually disable traps unless they've taken disable device before, similar to how tumble works)

I don't think +1 loot table on chests would be overpowered. Considering that is available in 6x25 hour (150 hours) bundles for a relatively cheap price on the sotre.. And IMO everything on the store should have an equivalent thing ingame.
So if they gave the find feat something like this I think it would be fair:
5 Miniut buff, +1 loot table on chests. 1/day, 16 hour cooldown, timer never resets except for waiting. (Does not stack with jewels of fortune)
That would give you only 1 chest per day, or at least all the endchests in 1 quest.

Ybbald
03-30-2010, 06:25 PM
Or you could just not loot any of the chests in Tempest Spine until after the raid is over and then get them all in 5 minutes :D

(minus fire + ice chests)