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KaplanPD
03-16-2010, 04:25 AM
I'm currently a level 6 Paladin with the Turn Undead feat, yet whenever I face skeletons or zombies, the feat neither makes them flee nor die. I'm sure there is a stat required, but I haven't been able to figure this one out.

What stat or skill is needed so I can kill the undead with my Turn Undead feat ?!

Thanks in advance.

Trillea
03-16-2010, 04:38 AM
I'm currently a level 6 Paladin with the Turn Undead feat, yet whenever I face skeletons or zombies, the feat neither makes them flee nor die. I'm sure there is a stat required, but I haven't been able to figure this one out.

What stat or skill is needed so I can kill the undead with my Turn Undead feat ?!

Thanks in advance.

Charisma is the stat that turn undead is based on, but as a paladin you will always be 3 levels behind a cleric with your turn undead ability, and clerics have a hard time with it beyond the Catacombs. You will be better served to take enhancements that let you use your turn undeads for other things, such as the divine might enhancements.

blitzschlag
03-16-2010, 04:41 AM
http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:Turn_Undead

as hit dice are in fact irrelevant in ddo (its different in p&p) turn undead might work on casual and normal difficulty with a good percentage chance, but on hard/elite it does not. i can remember a time (mod 6/7 or something) where turn undead actually worked in low levels even on elite if you got a good charisma score.

anyway, grab a good holy blunt weapon and bash em. turn undead sux.

Talon_Moonshadow
03-16-2010, 06:28 AM
Roll up a Sorc, with a 14 Cha. Do not take Maximise or Empower spell feats, do not put any action points into damage enhancements, do not use a potency item. Do not use a Cha item.

Then go cast fireballs in elite dungeons and tell me how good it is.


Now try the same thing with a char properly built for it. I think you will notice that it works a lot better.


Turn undead is like that.


Well, except that when it works correctly, it still has undesireable results. As making things run from you.....forever.....until it leashes back, unturned. Or sometimes flees through walls....etc. Is not a good thing. And that is only after it attacks you a few times more times before it remembers that it is not suppose to be doing that. :(


So yeah. Turning Undead sux.

KaplanPD
03-16-2010, 02:51 PM
Are there any pallys out there that can actually use this feat effectively, even on low/mid level quests? And if so whats your charisma stat looking like?

I think for soloing I could see myself using this feat, might come in handy...I'm currently at 18+4 for a total of 22, and it fails every time, please advise.

weyoun
03-16-2010, 02:56 PM
OP, honestly, turning is so gimped its not worth the time investigating how gimped it is. Nothing to see here, move along.

flynnjsw
03-16-2010, 02:56 PM
Are there any pallys out there that can actually use this feat effectively, even on low/mid level quests? And if so whats your charisma stat looking like?

I think for soloing I could see myself using this feat, might come in handy...I'm currently at 18+4 for a total of 22, and it fails every time, please advise.

The only thing I am aware of that adds to your turn check is a Sacred item, which adds 2 levels to your turn checks. Also you can get the Improved Turning Enhancements (which are neccisary for the Hunter of the Dead PrE). Speaking as a Paladin player, and as other posters have mentioned, turning is not really worth it.

ddaedelus
03-16-2010, 03:07 PM
If you want numbers to prove to yourself how incredibly unimpressive turn undead really is, you can read the first post of this thread here. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=167986)

Talon_Moonshadow
03-16-2010, 03:53 PM
If you want numbers to prove to yourself how incredibly unimpressive turn undead really is, you can read the first post of this thread here. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=167986)

I had missed the second post mentioned in that link.

The thing is, when you look at the numbers, you can indeed "Cower" some pretty high lvl undead. If you max out everything for turning.

But it takes such a sacrifice of feats, enhancements, items....stat points. That it is really not worth it. Especially when you see the reality of the problems with it.

Making (a few high lvl) things run from you, after they get in three more attacks (each), is not a desireable ability at all.

Oh, my clr still does it (well before I reincarnated her as a FVS anyway), just to prove I can. :p But the results are way more annoying than useful.

How many times I've had to apologise to a group because they had to wait till it wore off, so the incorporeal named guy would come back, so we could kill him and get his chest open. :(

it really needs an overhall IMO. it should be instant, and things should not run IMO.
PnP rules be darned, it's just one of the many things that needs to be adjusted for a live action MMO environment.


But to the Op. Hunter of the Dead enhancement line is the way to go for a Pally who wants to turn undead. I saw a lvl 12 one that could turn anything in lvl appropriate content. But I'm sure he maxed out everything related to it too. And like I said, making it run doesn't do a lot for you.

DoctorWhofan
03-17-2010, 11:13 AM
Are there any pallys out there that can actually use this feat effectively, even on low/mid level quests? And if so whats your charisma stat looking like?

I think for soloing I could see myself using this feat, might come in handy...I'm currently at 18+4 for a total of 22, and it fails every time, please advise.

No If you want to kill undead, use the Enhancement Divine Light. It's total waste to get turn undead to work. Why? LOng story short, it will gimp your character.

I would recommend to let this idea go. ESPECIALLY on a Pally. Clerics in the 18 CHA (Level6-8) range can still turn undead on Delera's on normal/hard. After that, nope. I have to be WAY over the level range to turn undead. Andthat's a cleric.

tihocan
03-17-2010, 11:16 AM
I would recommend to let this idea go. ESPECIALLY on a Pally. Clerics in the 18 CHA (Level6-8) range can still turn undead on Delera's on normal/hard. After that, nope. I have to be WAY over the level range to turn undead. Andthat's a cleric.
Depends on what you mean by "turn". You can still sometimes make them run away at higher level with some focus on Turn (through items / enhancements more than a super-high Cha which would definitely be gimping yourself).

KaplanPD
03-17-2010, 11:29 AM
No If you want to kill undead, use the Enhancement Divine Light. It's total waste to get turn undead to work. Why? LOng story short, it will gimp your character.

I would recommend to let this idea go. ESPECIALLY on a Pally. Clerics in the 18 CHA (Level6-8) range can still turn undead on Delera's on normal/hard. After that, nope. I have to be WAY over the level range to turn undead. Andthat's a cleric.

Yeah looks like everyone is on the same page here; the turn undead feat is a waste of resources to get to work, and when it does, its not as effective as it should be.

I just got access to the Divine Light feat, and thats looking a lot better. I appreciate your guy's honest input, and thanks again!

DoctorWhofan
03-17-2010, 11:29 AM
I had missed the second post mentioned in that link.

The thing is, when you look at the numbers, you can indeed "Cower" some pretty high lvl undead. If you max out everything for turning.

But it takes such a sacrifice of feats, enhancements, items....stat points. That it is really not worth it. Especially when you see the reality of the problems with it.

Making (a few high lvl) things run from you, after they get in three more attacks (each), is not a desireable ability at all.

Oh, my clr still does it (well before I reincarnated her as a FVS anyway), just to prove I can. :p But the results are way more annoying than useful.

How many times I've had to apologise to a group because they had to wait till it wore off, so the incorporeal named guy would come back, so we could kill him and get his chest open. :(

it really needs an overhall IMO. it should be instant, and things should not run IMO.
PnP rules be darned, it's just one of the many things that needs to be adjusted for a live action MMO environment.


But to the Op. Hunter of the Dead enhancement line is the way to go for a Pally who wants to turn undead. I saw a lvl 12 one that could turn anything in lvl appropriate content. But I'm sure he maxed out everything related to it too. And like I said, making it run doesn't do a lot for you.

Maxing out Turn Undead will probably gimp a cleric and definitally gimp a Pally. I know I had one.

THe problem is the inflated Hit Die. Not going into math, but when you turn, you take away so many hit die off t he map. SO EXAMPLE:

I turn undead as a level 6 cleric: I take away 12 hp die of undead. THat's 12 one HP dice, 6 2 hp dice, and so forth. Fearing them (as i was told) I hit them with the turn, but it wasn't enough to kill them outright. I beleive it has to be a percent of the undead's total dice to work.

IN DDO: TO keep up with the player's super inflated HP, the mobs have super HP dice. So ifI did the same turn, at level 6 I would be able to maybe get 2-3 guys. OR fear a bunch of them, depending. THat's normal. THe hit dice of the mobs go up with difficulty.

A level 6 paladin is turning as a level 2 cleric has zero chance.

Turning was translated almost word for word from PnP. The rest of this scenario wasn't. PnP Turning is weaksauce compared to DDO mobs. We can never catch up even with feats and enhancements and items. I know of a few clerics that CAN turn undead in the Orchard, but they sacrificed ALOT to get that.

THE SAVING GRACE is the fact we can do other things with out turns. THe Divine enhancement chains both pallys and clerics have are very powerful. So at the end of the day,IMHO, having ALOT of turns is useful, having IMPROVED turning is not.