View Full Version : Build Differences, which would you choose?

03-15-2010, 04:04 PM
I'd like to open the floor to a debate. One that I myself will not be participating in but rather observing to try and learn more about a potential build I am thinking of working on. Perfecting this builds equipment and lay out will take some time but I have some general ideas to work with. That said I would like to hear from the player base, particularly those knowladgable in aggression tanking of raid bosses at level 20, which they would prefer in their raid group/questing party if they were to fullfill their intended role, and if they feel the build could fullfill that intended role.

First some fundamental things about this debate. I am not going to give class, stat, enhancement, etc. here. rather I will list a few fundamental differences between the two builds with out naming what is doing the behind the scenes work. This is rather like a blind taste test. You get to view the differences between the two, know what each is ment to do, but you won't get to know the brand names. The additional glich is each build is ment to do something slightly different. If you can figure out what classes, race, enhancements, etc I am basing these figures off of kudos to you but I would ask to please not mention it here. Rather base your judgement based only on the numbers presented as these are hard data and I would like to leave any preconcieved notions out of the discussion.

Also while gear for each build would be different, it will be equal to the task the build is centered on performing so that will not be a basis for this either.

Both builds are TR'd from a Paladin.

Both Builds are Dual Wield

Now, with out further adu, lets get the basis for the debate started.

Build 1 - Primary role DPS

BAB 20
To Hit 30 standing with power attack
Base + to damage (not counting weapons or gear, only class base increase) + 44
AC 37 self buff, Raid buff 45
Saves 30/26/22
Has 10 to 20 more HP than Build 2

Build 2 - Primary Role Agression Tank/DPS

BAB 19
To Hit 30 standing with power attack
Base + to daamge (Again, class base only) +27
AC 63 Self Buff, Raid Buff 71
Saves 31/33/27
Has Evasion
Has ability to Increase Agression profile by 200%
Has 10 to 20 less HP than Build 1

Please discuss and give your opinions.

03-15-2010, 06:37 PM
The data you have given are not sufficient to make a informed decision. You need to give builds, and not just some arbitrary datapoints with out the reference frame.

Both Builds are Dual WieldWhat?
One Kopesh and the other Kamas?

Has 10 to 20 more HP than Build 2400 to 420 .. or rather 650 to 670?

AC 37 self buff, Raid buff 45= no AC at all

AC 63 Self Buff, Raid Buff 71Including which buffs?
30 sec boosts, while tumbling against giants, only with selfbuff-spells?

03-16-2010, 07:26 AM
Honestly Noc, I didn't think people would over think it that much hehe... Thank you for proving to me that I cannot percive every possible thought process when looking at a set of data.

And yes, I do feel you are over thinking it. Tho perhaps the expectations were a bit off. I just feel that sometimes people get to hung up on the cover of the book and fail to look at data to give objective opinions on things. So I stripped back the names, the titles, the places, etc and stripped things down to only numbers. I suppose for some that might be unsettling and lead to over thinking.

As I had tried to explain, when it comes to those things not listed assume things to be on equal footing. What weapon they use will not matter much, since they will be identical for this discussion. Were the AC buffs come from does not matter, I have checked to insure that they all stack appropriately and that the figures are correct for both builds. And yes, I know build 1's ac is non-applicable due to it being so low. The only reason I listed it is to show that this stat is different. Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha are obviously different scores but the effects of these variances lie's in the to hit and + damage numbers as well as the saving throw numbers. I.E. I give the final output of the variations between the two builds rather than all the minute variations.

That said I'll try to add some more data as you asked for with out infringing on the original concept of the idea.

Weapons used by both will be scimitars. Greensteel Lit II for trash that cannot be vorpaled and Scimitars capable of bypassing raid boss DR in raid situations. As I said, identical weapons for either build.

Hit points would lie between the 460 and 500 mark for both builds as standing, unbuffed HP levels. That allows for a 20 point variation to each build yes, but I tend to allow for that in any build I make to base off wether I have the tier 3 GS HP item finished or just on the 2nd tier.

As to the 30 second buff question regarding AC. I personally would not count anything I could not maintain for a length of time to make a difference in successfully tanking. I.E. 30 seconds are great if I need to bum rush through a horde of monsters to get someone to a shrine, but really are negligable if tanking a raid boss. So no, no 30 second buffs or tumbling around. All numbers are standing fighting numbers while buffed with conventional raid buffing and self buffing that can be kept up for the duration of a raid or quest.

This was ment as part experiment and part wanting to get some imput on actual end numbers. If you are unable to analyze the data as is that is fine. I hold no grudge or ill feeling about it. However I'll admit to being confused. O'well. So is life. hehe... live and learn.

03-16-2010, 08:06 AM
I'd probably pick the 2nd one because it looks more unusual and thus fun to me, but it doesn't mean it's best ;) (in particular I'm not sure how useful it'd be in Epic content)

03-16-2010, 10:12 AM
With the additional info given, i´d recommend build no.2.

Evasion is worth more than 20 HP. +200% hate generation is also very hand, if you reach a working AC level, which this build does.