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lppmor
03-13-2010, 06:16 PM
I just started soloing a few lvl 13 quests in Gianthold with my lvl 15 Cleric, and noticed the increase in mob's attack bonus is insane comparing to previous quests. My AC 30 was working fine so far, and now it seems to mean nothing, even against the hobgoblins and orcs. Hopefully my fullplate is adamantine, so the DR 3/- is helping a lot (damage stays at 4~8 only).

Since AC seems to be worthless now, what you guys suggest in relation to my items? I mean, should I drop entirely my +5 Protection Necklace and +5 Adamantine Fullpate for something else? Should I only care with fortification and DR (I use Dusk Heart already)? Invulnerability? Fearsome? Since I like to solo a lot, the game now suddenly became way harder, and I think I need to keep some other kind of protection..

tihocan
03-13-2010, 07:11 PM
Ideally, start running the DQ raid, there are a few items there you'll find useful: a cloak with perma-blur, bracers that give temp HPs when getting hit, gloves with DR 10 vs. pierce (great for archers), and the almighty Torc (which gives you SP back when you get hit, so that you actually like being hit ;)). You'll probably want to group for that one though, at least on your first times.

I'd say go for Fearsome Adamantine Full Plate (+ doesn't matter), possibly of Invulnerability (or of Greater False Life / Heavy Fort if it can save an item slot). Keep a non-Fearsome one though for situations where you don't want it ;)

Once you get to L17, start running the Reaver's Refuge quests. You can craft armor with many different useful effects.

lppmor
03-13-2010, 07:24 PM
Thanks.

So Invulnerability still works fine during Gianthold? I mean, most mobs still have non-magic attacks?

tihocan
03-13-2010, 08:00 PM
Thanks.

So Invulnerability still works fine during Gianthold? I mean, most mobs still have non-magic attacks?
Honestly, I don't know. I remember reading there were still some high level monsters without magic attacks, but I'm not sure to which extent this is true (I typically stop using it around L10 myself). It'll still work at least for animals :)
I just mentioned it because it can't hurt. But if you get something more useful as suffix, even better!

Lehrman
03-13-2010, 08:05 PM
Its time for you to rely on bladebarrier and not melee for your damage. Cast a blade barrier and let them chase you through it repeatedly. Your Ac will not matter if they can not catch you.

Feats needed: Quicken, Extend, and Maximize spell or Empower spell or both.

TheDjinnFor
03-13-2010, 08:14 PM
<snip>

This doesn't quite answer your question, but...

AC
10 Base
+16 DT FP (plus armor ritual)
+8 Heavy Shield (plus shield ritual)
+5 Protection Necklace
+4 Holy Aura
+2 Recitation
+1 Dex +4 item (base 8 dex)
+3 Barkskin +3 pot
+1 haste pot
= 50

Should be fine for Gianthold if you're going solo on normal/casual. Knock off DT, and the two rituals and you've got 46; that should be just enough to get almost full immunity on normal/casual. You're probably going to need about 60 for hard/elite.

tihocan
03-13-2010, 08:59 PM
+4 Holy Aura
Oh, is the AC from Holy Aura bugged like the saves bonus, so that it stacks?
He's only L15 though, so won't have the spell till 2 more levels.

spitfirek
03-13-2010, 09:54 PM
I thought adamantine and invulnerability DRs didn't stack.

lppmor
03-14-2010, 07:31 AM
I have already Holy Aura, but I don't think it can stack with a protection necklace. I think I could focus highly on AC to make it worth, but it would demand several sacrifices in other areas. For example, I would have to drop my axe for a mace+shield (currently I'm doing nice damage with an axe, around 40 per hit), burning an item slot for protection necklace, and also keeping casting/clicking recitation, barkskin and haste all the time. Probably just dropping AC at all and focusing on DR seems more pratical.

@ spitfirek
Adamantine and Invulnerability do not stack. Invulnerability gives higher DR, but can be bypassed, so keeping Adamantine as a backup DR that works all the time really seems a good idea.

@ Lehrman
I use BB, but I can't use it all the time due to sp issues. Specially during new quests, I'm afraid to using it too much and burning all my sp till next srhine, so I trust my axe to drop random mobs (sometimes with the help of greater command and destruction), and at this time I take some damage. Any suggestion to make a better use of BB?


NOTE: I just bought from AH a +1 Fearsome Hide Armor of Invulnerability, and I'll give it a try..

EKKM
03-14-2010, 02:09 PM
This doesn't quite answer your question, but...

AC
10 Base
+16 DT FP (plus armor ritual)
+8 Heavy Shield (plus shield ritual)
+5 Protection Necklace
+4 Holy Aura
+2 Recitation
+1 Dex +4 item (base 8 dex)
+3 Barkskin +3 pot
+1 haste pot
= 50

Should be fine for Gianthold if you're going solo on normal/casual. Knock off DT, and the two rituals and you've got 46; that should be just enough to get almost full immunity on normal/casual. You're probably going to need about 60 for hard/elite.

He needs another level for DT armour and if he's finding GH tough to solo, reaver's refuge will be impossible. It will be hard as a battle cleric to keep a meaningful AC and do decent melee DPS at that level. Try to use CC spells like symbol of persuasion/stunning, Greater coommand and comet fall to help out (A BB is just as expensive as far as SP go however).

tihocan
03-15-2010, 08:24 AM
He needs another level for DT armour and if he's finding GH tough to solo, reaver's refuge will be impossible.
You can get into groups to complete the chain once, then just rely on Monastery for rune grinding (which is really easy to solo on a cleric with BB's - just need to practice the end room a bit).

Wyrmnax
03-15-2010, 08:35 AM
Your best bet is to ditch AC.

Attack bonuses scale absurdly after gianthold. Either you had a plan for a high-ac from the get go, or your ac will be floored.

You are a cleric - you can rely on Blade Barriers to do most of your killing. running around one has the side effect of making you get hit much less.

sephiroth1084
03-15-2010, 08:35 AM
I mean, should I drop entirely my +5 Protection Necklace and +5 Adamantine Fullpate (worth hanging on to until you find better DR) for something else? Should I only care with fortification and DR (I use Dusk Heart already)?
Yes.

grodon9999
03-15-2010, 08:41 AM
Your best bet is to ditch AC.




I don't agree with this, a 45-50 AC is effective in GH, a low 50s AC is useful in the Vale/RR and that's not that hard to get.

The OP's AC of 30 is useless though, it's just not enough.

MrWizard
03-15-2010, 09:20 AM
I just started soloing a few lvl 13 quests in Gianthold with my lvl 15 Cleric, and noticed the increase in mob's attack bonus is insane comparing to previous quests. My AC 30 was working fine so far, and now it seems to mean nothing, even against the hobgoblins and orcs. Hopefully my fullplate is adamantine, so the DR 3/- is helping a lot (damage stays at 4~8 only).

Since AC seems to be worthless now, what you guys suggest in relation to my items? I mean, should I drop entirely my +5 Protection Necklace and +5 Adamantine Fullpate for something else? Should I only care with fortification and DR (I use Dusk Heart already)? Invulnerability? Fearsome? Since I like to solo a lot, the game now suddenly became way harder, and I think I need to keep some other kind of protection..

Nothing wrong with ac. Just a few items, some very easy, some very hard to get and you are in the low 70's raid buffed.

at level 16 you can wear dragon touch, until then I would go with mithral full plate if you can. Or the gianthold relic full plate. You can also opt for a DT breast plate instead for a better dex bonus, you gotta do your own numbers.

I am going to highlight the only 'gear' you need for a really high ac below, there is only 4 needed.

+10 base ac
+5 prot (can be put on dragon touch but suggest a prot 5/heavy fort shroud crafted item)
+2 chaosgarde (easy and cheap on auction house, need to be lawful or have a good UMD)
+3 chattering ring (hard to get, from titan raid, extremely rare)
+15 dragon touch plate (16th level before you can wear it)
+1 to 4+ for dex bonus (not sure of your race and depends on full plate or breast plate)
+4 insight on dragon touch plate (takes some grinding)
+9 tower shield (hound raid, easy to get, even at your level now)
+1 armor ritual
+1 shield ritual
+3 barkskin
+2 recitation
+1 haste
--------------------
57 - 60 (+2 if blocking, +2 if defensive fighting is on and not casting)

Raid buffs

+2 ranger barkskin
+6 pally aura
+4 bard song
------------
69 - 72 (+2 if blocking, +2 if defensive fighting on and not casting)


(if you do not want to use a shield during most encounters, your ac will be reduced by 10, however, with a shield clickie or a UMD shield wand you can add 4 back)
-10 not wearing a shield
+4 shield spell
------------------
63- 66 no shield (+2 blocking, +2 if defensive stance)

Feats that could help
+5 Combat expertise (spell cast will disable)
+1 dodge feat
+1 twf defense

Shield blocking with the leviks will add +15 to your blocking DR should you have any DR enhancements or racial granted abilities that give you more. Leviks will also throw you a heal once in a while when you are hit.

No reason to not go ac. Adds to your survivability big time, especially in bad pugs.

Only two items really are needed here, chaosgardes and chattering ring. The rest if just dragon touch armor and buffs or a shroud crafted item also.
Start working on your dragon touch armor in the reavers refuge now so you can wear at 16th level.

With a 70+ ac you will be better off than most of your party members....personally, I think it is worth it.

Kintro
03-15-2010, 09:53 AM
Nothing wrong with ac. Just a few items, some very easy, some very hard to get and you are in the low 70's raid buffed.

at level 16 you can wear dragon touch, until then I would go with mithral full plate if you can. Or the gianthold relic full plate. You can also opt for a DT breast plate instead for a better dex bonus, you gotta do your own numbers.


+10 base ac
+5 prot (can be put on dragon touch but suggest a prot 5/heavy fort shroud crafted item)
+2 chaosgarde (easy and cheap on auction house, need to be lawful or have a good UMD)
+3 chattering ring (hard to get, from titan raid)
+15 dragon touch plate (16th level before you can wear it)
+1 to 4+ for dex bonus (not sure of your race and depends on full plate or breast plate)
+4 insight on dragon touch plate (takes some grinding)
+9 tower shield (hound raid, easy to get, even at your level now)
+1 armor ritual
+1 shield ritual
+3 barkskin
+2 recitation
+1 haste
--------------------
57 - 60 (+2 if blocking, +2 if defensive fighting is on and not casting)

Raid buffs

+2 ranger barkskin
+6 pally aura
+4 bard song
------------
69 - 72 (+2 if blocking, +2 if defensive fighting on and not casting)

Shield blocking with the leviks will add +15 to your blocking DR should you have any DR enhancements or racial granted abilities that give you more. Leviks will also throw you a heal once in a while when you are hit.

No reason to not go ac. Adds to your survivability big time, especially in bad pugs.

Only two items really are needed here, chaosgardes and chattering ring. The rest if just dragon touch armor and buffs or a shroud crafted item also.
Start working on your dragon touch armor in the reavers refuge now so you can wear at 16th level.

With a 70+ ac you will be better off than most of your party members....personally, I think it is worth it.

He's going to have to grind like crazy to get that though.

Don't count on seeing a Hound shield until 20 (if then), Chattering Rings you'd be lucky to get after 20 and we all know the crazy lottery to get +4 insight!

Personally I think he'd be better off making a conc opp sp item, grinding a torc and just healing the damage.

EDIT: And something with arcane law so your blade barriers hit even harder (sometimes).

tihocan
03-15-2010, 10:00 AM
Personally I think he'd be better off making a conc opp sp item, grinding a torc and just healing the damage.
My thoughts too, it works very well for solo play. And it avoids the tower shield (which is annoying for THF / dual-wielding casting weapons).

MrWizard
03-15-2010, 10:33 AM
He's going to have to grind like crazy to get that though.

Don't count on seeing a Hound shield until 20 (if then), Chattering Rings you'd be lucky to get after 20 and we all know the crazy lottery to get +4 insight!

Personally I think he'd be better off making a conc opp sp item, grinding a torc and just healing the damage.

EDIT: And something with arcane law so your blade barriers hit even harder (sometimes).

you can use a regular mithral tower shield until leviks. I got mine at 16 on my toons just by doing that raid. IT drops pretty regular.

agreed chattering would take forever, for most, but I listed what would help.

+4 insight I got pretty fast on mine, lucky I guess, well worth the grind and the xp to get it. Easy to get eldritch and trade up.


With a very small amount of items a 70+ac is something to shoot for at end game as a cleric with no real downside.

-10 if not wearing shield....will add stuff above for that.

MrWizard
03-15-2010, 10:39 AM
My thoughts too, it works very well for solo play. And it avoids the tower shield (which is annoying for THF / dual-wielding casting weapons).

-6 to above numbers if not using a shield. (with a shield clickie or umd wand on).

The addition of a shield is for 'trouble', you know, when the pug is wiping or such. The extra 4 ac and 15 dr can help you in situations when you need to. It is just a shield and nothing wrong with carrying it in case.

Now...how about a petition for crafting stuff onto shields!!!!!

lppmor
03-15-2010, 12:41 PM
Hey guys, thx for all suggestions.

I tried out the Fearsome armor of Invulnerability, but didn't liked to Fearsome effects since mobs start running around away from my melee. Invulnerability seemed nice, but I noticed some of the stronger Orcs and Hobgoblins in fact carry magic weapons, making it useless when I more need it.

So I decided to keep the Adamantine Fullplate for the DR 3/-, drop the +5 Protection Necklace for a +6 Wis necklace, and freeing up my head slot (previously with a Wise Helm), which now carries a +100 sp tiara. I'm currently going fine against the Hobgoblins and Orcs with only the DR and lots of sp, but probably only 3/- will become useless later against giants, so I'm working to get better DR such as a Fullplate of Giants maybe.

tihocan
03-15-2010, 01:58 PM
I tried out the Fearsome armor of Invulnerability, but didn't liked to Fearsome effects since mobs start running around away from my melee.
Well, Fearsome is nice if you don't care about running after mobs to kill them. I must admit I haven't played with Fearsome in a long time so I'm not sure how viable it is now with Dungeon Alert.

Cupcake
03-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Hey guys, thx for all suggestions.

I tried out the Fearsome armor of Invulnerability, but didn't liked to Fearsome effects since mobs start running around away from my melee. Invulnerability seemed nice, but I noticed some of the stronger Orcs and Hobgoblins in fact carry magic weapons, making it useless when I more need it.

So I decided to keep the Adamantine Fullplate for the DR 3/-, drop the +5 Protection Necklace for a +6 Wis necklace, and freeing up my head slot (previously with a Wise Helm), which now carries a +100 sp tiara. I'm currently going fine against the Hobgoblins and Orcs with only the DR and lots of sp, but probably only 3/- will become useless later against giants, so I'm working to get better DR such as a Fullplate of Giants maybe.

Dear sir,

DId you obtain minos legion from the orchard tapestries for the heavy fort/toughness? If you got your tapestries did you opt for the cleric helm instead?

I am one that is not a raider so most of the suggestiions given to you by people are meaningless to me. Me and my two friends (one behind hubby) just do the best we can wiith our 29-34 ac. We try to kill fast so mobs dont have a chance to kill us LOL. My bard woulld love to increase his AC over 32 but I just dont see it happening. With my warchant i can do 5/- DR and my inspired greatness gives me 20 extra hp. I dont have greater heroism at this time. At lvl 12, me and hubby and friend ran the vale and I sustained damage but managed to survive and kill off what I was attacking.

I did notice that with all the mobs in the Vale the one that is my weakness so to speak are the orthons. I don't have a banishing weapon. I can kill everything else out there, but for those orthons.

As for you, I think your current course of action is a good one. +5 adamantine FP is nice, I would recommend a +5 adamantine shield as well if you use one.

Good luck to you sir.