PDA

View Full Version : Splashing classes THINK BEFORE DOING!



DoctorWhofan
03-08-2010, 08:00 PM
--I need to see what is behind that door

--I die all the time, I need to heal myself!

--My Armour class is bad. I need to learn to wear armour!


Had that or similar thoughts running through your head??


I ask you to do one thing before doing any multiclass...THINK!


THe basics is this: Multiclass can destroy an otherwise decent character, forcing you to re-roll. IF you are new and are trying ti learn the basics of the game, DOn't Splash or Multiclass. LEARN the game first. Unlike alot of MMOs out there, classes change as they level because forthe balancing. Pure classes have alot options without multi-classing. I'd suggest you explore those before doing. Need a heal? Get a wand, get a potion, invest in UMD, get a hireling or even get a party! THere is nothing worth getting behind any secret door unless it is a shrine. THere are secret clickies and even a low UMD can get you to use a wand of Detect secret Doors.

DON'T DO IT WITHOUT THINKING IT THROUGH BEFORE LEVEL 1.

Splash is one or two levels (sometimes 3) of a class. THis is the general way of multiclassing in the game.

Disclaimer: you generally can mix any class with any class, BUT see above caps before mixing. Seriously. yeah, there are peeps who can make any mix class work, but remember not everyone can do that. So again, lowest common denominator here. Once you get the hang of it, then go a little off wall with the mix.

Not perfect. If I made a mistake let me know

TO explain:
Each class has a MAIN ABILITY STAT. some have 2 some even have 4! BUt generally speaking, you want to mix classes with other classes that share one or more of those stats. Other reasons is natural abilities that those classes have. SO here isthe basic list:

NOTE: CON isn't listed but it IS NOT A DUMP STAT FOR ANY CLASS. Trust me.



RANGER: DEX is for bow abilities, STR for tempest PrE (if not fineseing) among other things, and a WIS (all they need is 14) for casting spells. They can use heal wands at level 1. Top line DPS Melee.

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: They get TWF as a class feat at level 2 regardless of DEX.
Multiclasses well with Rogue, fighter, Monk.

ROGUE: DEX, and/or STR (for damage), and INT. DEX and INT for trapmonkey skills. depending on the build, they can be finesse killer, STR killer, or point blank killer. Top single hit killer. Can use heal wands if invested in the UMD skill.
MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Only class that can disarm traps. Gets Evasion at level 2. Also UMD and Skill points at charcater creation. SNeak Attack. A popular splash class.
MUlticlasses well with: ranger, fighter, wizard, bard, some monks and rarely cleric (see cleric)


FIGHTER: STR to kill things. Gets lots of feats and assorted enhancements, kensai being being the top one.

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Level one Extra feat, maybe to get first level of kensai (rarer). Weapon profiencies.
Multiclasses well with: Ranger, Rogue, bard, barbarian, sometimes clerics and FvS and some WF Wizard battlemages.

BARBARIAN: STR to kill things. SOme really nice PrEs based on THF. Rage FTW. CANNOT BE LAWFUL

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Rage, some of the enhancements. Boosts.
Muticlasses well with: Ranger, Rogue, Fighter.


PALADIN: STR to kill things, CHA for saves, a little WIS for SP. Divine Grace takes your CHA bonus and adds it to ALL your saves. Immunity to desease and fear. Auras that give out buffs to nearby party members. Can use heal wands at level 1. weapon and armour proficenies. HAS TO BE LAWFUL GOOD

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Divine grace at level 2, immunities, able to heal, lots of stuff. popular splash class.
Multiclasses well with: Fighters, Rogues, Monks, FvS, some clerics.

BARD: CHA for spell points, then it depends how you build the class, normally DEX and or STR for various killing. Can heal, singing buffs cannot be removed. OFten used as Hagglebots to sell. CANNOT BE LAWFUL.

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Haggle skill, singing buffs, healing
Multiclasses well with: bards, fighters, rangers, rogues

CLERIC: WIS for spell points and damage, CHA if you do the divine enhancement line. Top healer in the game, can have the most spells memorized (due to the healing spells) in the game. Top offensive casters. DIvine Enhancement line gives flexiblity to an otherwise (mostly) useless ability. Divine Vitality makes clerics the only ones with the ability to return spell points to other casters.

I play clerics, can't you tell? :cool:

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Healing Healing Healing. Also DVs in rarer instances. Not recommended to splash, because clerics lose power for each level lost to a multiclass.
Multiclasses well with: Rogues (natural spot, spells), Sorcerers and Bards (for DVs and for the sorcerer, self healing) and Monks.

FAVOURED SOULS: CHA for spell points, WIS for spell damage. STR if a melee version. Makes a good battle cleric due to (limited) specialized religious feats. Spell progression and casts like a sorcerer. Does not get heal spells for free. Can use heal wands at level 1. Also get double SP for Wizardy/power items.

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Religious weapon bonuses, healing. Not recommended for splashing due to he fact they lose spell power for each level lost.
multiclass well with: Rogues, Sorcerers, monks and Bards.

MONKS: WIS for AC, STR for killing, DEX. Whatever stance they are in will give a monk +2 to their stance's stat. limited on weapons and no armour. Gets evasion at level 2. WIS counts as AC. MUST BE LAWFUL

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: +2 stat for stances, enhancements, evasion.
Multiclasses well with: Rogues, Clerics, FvS, Rangers, fighters and Paladins.

SORCERERS: CHA for Spell points and damage. fast cast time. Doubles Wizardry and Power items they wear.

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Spell points. Healing if you are WF. Not recommended to multiclass because each class splashed, the sorcerer loses power.
Multiclasses well with: Bard. SOme Clerics and FvS, mostly because they are WF.

WIZARD: INT for spell points and damage. flexible arcane caster. Gets metamagic feat bonuses.

MAIN REASON TO MULTICLASS: repair if WF. use of Arcane wands, extra meta magic feat at level 1. Not recommended to splash due to loss of power
Multiclasses well with: Rogue. may be splashed if WF for self healing, but is rarer.



It is all about synergy. If a class doesn't share something in common with another, the generally don't mix well. It can work, such as Clogue (rogue/cleric) but takes some serious planning from the beginning.

POINTS OF INTEREST:

Also, splashes, rather than an even split is the norm. Like the casters mentioned above, even split downgrades the main class's (or both in this case) main job, whether it is DPS or casting or whatever, it is less powerful for each class level you take outside the norm. Most PrEs are on 6,12, 18 levels, another way to multiclass is to take a class to level for the PrE, then switch to another. For example Ranger 6/Rogue 12/ Paladin 2. This gives Tempest I PrE, Rogue assassin II and Divine Grace from te paladin. HOWEVER, characters such as these are slow to develop and often pay a huge price at endgame if not properly outfitted to make up the differance. Not Recommended for new players!

Any two levels of rogue, built right from the beginning, can theoritcally get most of the traps in the game. THey are more reliant on gear than most pure rogues. Make sure you have gear before attempting.

Pally splashes are common because even with any positive CHA, you can get your saves up. You MUST make sure you are Lawful Good, and have a positive CHA to getthe full effect of Divine Grace. Still, 2 levels of Pally will get you access to the use of healing wands, immunity to fear, and a Lay On Hands on top of the normal armour and weapon profiencies. Again, think about it before choosing.

Casters lose spell power (damage, overcoming SR, etc.) for each level that is splashed in another class. Fighter and all DPS types lose attack power. All caster types wil lose spell points unless splashed with another class with SP in the same Stat or has a high stat of that class's SP stat. Example: Bards splashed with FvS will not lose spell points, but Bards splashed with clerics would due to clerics getting SP from WIS vice CHA.

CON is not a dump stat. AT LEAST make it a 10, more is highly recommended, ESPECIALLY in melee classes.

Recommend if you splash rogue, do it from the start, level 1. THe second level can be taken whenever, but the first should ALWAYS be at creation.

If you want to multiclass, do your research, ask questions. But in the most basic thing I could tell you, make sure thetwo classes share AT LEAST 2 things in common, or the splashed class if going to give you something you need because you cannot achieve it otherwise. Also, look at other benefits that may not be known to you, such as enhancements, that might help your main class.

Regardless Splashing and Multiclassing is fun, but it can destroy a perfectly good pure class. So BE CAREFUL. EXPECT to reroll. And RESEARCH.

Angelus_dead
03-08-2010, 08:35 PM
This is an important message, but could use better formatting and organization. Too many carriage returns! Maybe highlight the most important facts for people who haven't read the whole thing.

It appears that the biggest reason players do needless multiclassing is that they don't understand it entails reducing in the levels they can take in their existing class. That's not the case in every game, such as D&D 4e.

MarcusCole
03-08-2010, 08:40 PM
Why do you have to post stuff like this now!! I'm all outta rep for today, and I know I'll forget tomorrow!

techwench
03-08-2010, 08:44 PM
Why do you have to post stuff like this now!! I'm all outta rep for today, and I know I'll forget tomorrow!

LOL. I repped her for you...well, if the rep thing works in game, anyway...I don't get any popup confirmations... :p

BTW, very nice list...and I wish I had this when starting (although I only have one splash character on my primary server...but when TP farming on other servers, I always splash fighter @ level 1 on cleric...helps for the solo favor grind). I think I know what inspired this post, and definitely needs to be stickied...or maybe I'll just keep bumping it. Heh.

I do agree with A_D, though, maybe some bold/coloring on the headings might help the short attention span types. ;)

lord_of_rage
03-08-2010, 08:52 PM
Great post as always doc. I would add that a 2 monk splash works well with pally, cleric and ftr as well.

Kyrn
03-08-2010, 09:03 PM
You forgot the third main reason to MC rogue: UMD, and skillpoints in general (for UMD).

Nonan
03-08-2010, 09:13 PM
My eyes hurt..

Lymnus
03-09-2010, 08:33 AM
CLERIC: WIS for spell points and damage, CHA if you do the divine enhancement line. Top healer in the game, can have the most spells memorized (due to the healing spells) in the game. Top offensive casters. DIvine Enhancement line gives flexiblity to an otherwise (mostly) useless ability. Divine Vitality makes clerics the only ones with the ability to return spell points to other casters.

I play clerics, can't you tell? :cool:

MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Healing Healing Healing. Also DVs in rarer instances. Not recommended to splash, because clerics lose power for each level lost to a multiclass.
Biased cleric is biased.

But I like it.

DoctorWhofan
03-09-2010, 11:34 AM
This is an important message, but could use better formatting and organization. Too many carriage returns! Maybe highlight the most important facts for people who haven't read the whole thing.

It appears that the biggest reason players do needless multiclassing is that they don't understand it entails reducing in the levels they can take in their existing class. That's not the case in every game, such as D&D 4e.

I fixed it thank you. When I wrote it I was tired of answering people why they were not being able to cast clerical spells because the one splash cleric on a whim, and a 8 WIS.

DoctorWhofan
03-09-2010, 11:34 AM
You forgot the third main reason to MC rogue: UMD, and skillpoints in general (for UMD).

point will fix that.

Cupcake
03-09-2010, 03:13 PM
I ran into a cleric multiclassed with something odd. Can't remember what.

I asked him out of curiousity why?

He said because he wanted to and the combination sounded interesting.

He couldn't heal, he couldn't melee.........

He died alot.

Visty
03-09-2010, 03:41 PM
CLERIC
Multiclasses well with: ...Sorcerers and Bards (for DVs and for the sorcerer, self healing) ...

splashing a lvl of cleric into a bard or sorc will let you loose more then you gain, wouldnt call that multiclassing well

Longshot7
03-09-2010, 04:04 PM
BARD: CHA for spell points, then it depends how you build the class, normally DEX and or STR for various killing. Can heal, singing buffs cannot be removed. OFten used as Hagglebots to sell. CANNOT BE LAWFUL.
MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Haggle skill, singing buffs, healing
Multiclasses well with: bards, fighters, rangers, rogues

Kewl.. Multiclass a Barb with Bard.. :)


FAVOURED SOULS: CHA for spell points, WIS for spell damage. STR if a melee version. Makes a good battle cleric due to (limited) specialized religious feats. Spell progression and casts like a sorcerer. Does not get heal spells for free. Can use heal wands at level 1.
MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Religious weapon bonuses, healing. Not recommended for splashing due to he fact they lose spell power for each level lost.
multiclass well with:Rogues, Sorcerers, monks and Bards.

FvS alse gets the double SP from Wizardry/Power items


SORCERERS: CHA for Spell points and damage. fast cast time. Doubles Wizardry and Power items they wear. CANNOT BE LAWFUL.
MAIN REASON TO SPLASH: Spell points. Healing if you are WF. Not recommended to multiclass because each class splashed, the sorcerer loses power.
Multiclasses well with: Bard. SOme Clerics and FvS, mostly because they are WF.

o.O
0 Sorcs can't be Lawful?????



Great Job. This can be a very useful for new players. It will save them a lot of grief.

Visty
03-09-2010, 04:09 PM
0 Sorcs can't be Lawful?????

longshot is true here, this is a wrong part, sorcs can be any aligment

zealous
03-09-2010, 04:15 PM
DON'T DO IT WITHOUT THINKING IT THROUGH BEFORE LEVEL 1.
So BE CAREFUL. EXPECT to reroll. And RESEARCH.
Very very nice summary.
---
As usually I have a couple of things I'd like to add

Monk splashing is good for (nobrainer) wis to AC, might want to spell it out, can't make it too clear. Also good since you get extra feats for the first two levels. Multiclasses well with fighter and paladin too.

Barbarian is good because of the increased movement speed enabling you to go places and kill stuff faster.

Rogue/Fighter splash is good for haste boost I, need quickdraw to make it worthwhile in situations you can't prebuff e.g. prolonged fights.

Rogue 1 is quite nice also due to gaining d6+3 SA


If you plan it right you really only need 1 rogue level for skills.
If you only are interested in 1 rogue skill, e.g. UMD, it might be better to take the rogue level(s) at a later point. If you take rogue at level 1 you can pour 4 skill points into UMD, if you take it at level 8 you can pour 8 skill points into it.
...
Getting cha for divine might would generally require gimping your char or relying on tomes so not for this part of the forum...same goes for splashing monk for going unarmed with alignment of greater bane wraps + dual ToD rings.

DoctorWhofan
03-09-2010, 09:16 PM
FvS alse gets the double SP from Wizardry/Power items

Sorcs can't be Lawful?????



Great Job. This can be a very useful for new players. It will save them a lot of grief.

FIxed and Fixed. I have seen Bards and barbarians mixed, for the song buffs mostly and self healing after the fight. They seem to work.


longshot is true here, this is a wrong part, sorcs can be any aligment

Fixed.


Very very nice summary.
---

Barbarian is good because of the increased movement speed enabling you to go places and kill stuff faster.

Rogue/Fighter splash is good for haste boost I, need quickdraw to make it worthwhile in situations you can't prebuff e.g. prolonged fights.

Rogue 1 is quite nice also due to gaining d6+3 SA


If you plan it right you really only need 1 rogue level for skills.
If you only are interested in 1 rogue skill, e.g. UMD, it might be better to take the rogue level(s) at a later point. If you take rogue at level 1 you can pour 4 skill points into UMD, if you take it at level 8 you can pour 8 skill points into it.
...
Getting cha for divine might would generally require gimping your char or relying on tomes so not for this part of the forum...same goes for splashing monk for going unarmed with alignment of greater bane wraps + dual ToD rings.


FIxed the rogue, and added Paladin and fighter to monk's list It was DIvine Vitality on the clerical mix. I ran into a few sorcerers and bard that took a level of cleric for DVs. It works. It's rare, but it does work.

Again, I warned them several times on the fact ANY splash with a caster is gimping. Casters should be splashed with extreme caution. Now spalshing with a caster class, CAN be beneficial. I splashed my WF cleric with Wizard forthe extra metamagic feat and wand usage. But I also planned from the beginning for that. Which is possibly the most important thing.

Rogue splash is generally only need one, but this also comes with the fact you have the gear. I also didn't anyone WHEN they should take Rogue levels, that is their choice.

DoctorWhofan
03-09-2010, 09:27 PM
I ran into a cleric multiclassed with something odd. Can't remember what.

I asked him out of curiousity why?

He said because he wanted to and the combination sounded interesting.

He couldn't heal, he couldn't melee.........

He died alot.

I seethis more and more.

Also, 2nd guys not grasping splitting the fighter/mage multiclassing from PnP doesn't work here as well as they think.

It's unique, many games don't have multiclass ability, so many people don't know how it works.

Ashiel_Dragmire
03-09-2010, 09:51 PM
I ran into a cleric multiclassed with something odd. Can't remember what.

I asked him out of curiousity why?

He said because he wanted to and the combination sounded interesting.

He couldn't heal, he couldn't melee.........

He died alot.

I ran into a similar person. He was a Cleric/Wizard/Rogue named Nethen (on Cannith). My friend and I were wondering why he wanted that MC and he said "because [he] wanted to."

Unfortunately he was in my guild (I had just started it and needed some "fodder" members), and seeing as he was the only one on as often as me, I ended up partying with him a lot. He was near to useless and a loot ***** as well.

QuantumFX
03-09-2010, 10:06 PM
DoctorWhoFan (aka DavidTennantFan*): :D I’m trying to keep my comments and suggestions a little more on the general side. I’ve started a very similar post in the past but didn't hit the post topic button because I quickly realized that each class would have to be turned into a wall of text post about what you gain and what you lose at each level.

You might want to define “Splashing” a little bit more in your OP. It reads like you’re referring to characters that take 1-2 levels of another class (2/18 and 1/1/18 build splits) rather than deeper multiclasses (like 2/6/12 or 6/7/7 build splits) I suggest you stick to the 2/18's and 1/1/18's as the topic gets really complex really fast when you bring the reasoning behind other splits into the conversation. :eek:

I would also suggest fitting in something along the lines of “Each class has different things to add to a multiclassed character. They also have various things to lose by making them a multiclassed character. You’re already facing the learning curve of trying to master one class. Why screw yourself out of the knowledge of what your class is capable of by trying to take on the responsibilities of another?”


I ran into a similar person. *snip*

You should edit out the name. It can earn you infraction points. (Yes, been there before in wanting to post a name. Just… don't… do… it!)

* Ain’t nothin’ wrong with that.

DoctorWhofan
03-10-2010, 12:06 AM
DoctorWhoFan (aka DavidTennantFan*): :D I’m trying to keep my comments and suggestions a little more on the general side. I’ve started a very similar post in the past but didn't hit the post topic button because I quickly realized that each class would have to be turned into a wall of text post about what you gain and what you lose at each level.

You might want to define “Splashing” a little bit more in your OP. It reads like you’re referring to characters that take 1-2 levels of another class (2/18 and 1/1/18 build splits) rather than deeper multiclasses (like 2/6/12 or 6/7/7 build splits) I suggest you stick to the 2/18's and 1/1/18's as the topic gets really complex really fast when you bring the reasoning behind other splits into the conversation. :eek:

I would also suggest fitting in something along the lines of “Each class has different things to add to a multiclassed character. They also have various things to lose by making them a multiclassed character. You’re already facing the learning curve of trying to master one class. Why screw yourself out of the knowledge of what your class is capable of by trying to take on the responsibilities of another?”



You should edit out the name. It can earn you infraction points. (Yes, been there before in wanting to post a name. Just… don't… do… it!)

* Ain’t nothin’ wrong with that.

+1 for the David Tennant Fan remark. Hmmm...I will think on it tonight. proabably make changes tomorrow.

To be clear: Plays about Danish Princes being done by the Royal SHakespearean Company are EVIL.

Kyrn
03-10-2010, 12:22 AM
Might want to elaborate on the point of why rogues should be splashed at first level (4x skillpoints), and the reason why rogues are splashed for skills (base 8 skillpoints, and lots of class skills: You need at least 1 level with a class skill to upgrade that skill by 1 every level, even if you have to spend 2 points to do it.).

DoctorWhofan
03-10-2010, 12:38 PM
DoctorWhoFan (aka DavidTennantFan*): :D I’m trying to keep my comments and suggestions a little more on the general side. I’ve started a very similar post in the past but didn't hit the post topic button because I quickly realized that each class would have to be turned into a wall of text post about what you gain and what you lose at each level.

You might want to define “Splashing” a little bit more in your OP. It reads like you’re referring to characters that take 1-2 levels of another class (2/18 and 1/1/18 build splits) rather than deeper multiclasses (like 2/6/12 or 6/7/7 build splits) I suggest you stick to the 2/18's and 1/1/18's as the topic gets really complex really fast when you bring the reasoning behind other splits into the conversation. :eek:

I would also suggest fitting in something along the lines of “Each class has different things to add to a multiclassed character. They also have various things to lose by making them a multiclassed character. You’re already facing the learning curve of trying to master one class. Why screw yourself out of the knowledge of what your class is capable of by trying to take on the responsibilities of another?”



You should edit out the name. It can earn you infraction points. (Yes, been there before in wanting to post a name. Just… don't… do… it!)

* Ain’t nothin’ wrong with that.

done

WHat names?

DoctorWhofan
03-12-2010, 01:00 PM
updated