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Atoro87
03-07-2010, 01:19 PM
Alright I've leveled a dwarf fighter up to 3 and he's working pretty well. I'm shooting for a THF build focusing on DPS, a brawler. I'm using one of Tihocan's builds from the Revisiting Old Paths thread, the vanguard warrior, as my platform, essentially STR based THF focused on a great-axe because of the dwarf affinity.

My problem is is that I've been seeing conflicting information concerning fighters of the THF breed, specifically the Barb is a better THF class, in terms of higher HP and DPS.

From my understanding it seems barbs will end up with higher base HP but lower AC. Because of rage and it's complements in terms of enhancements it will do more DPS. The fighter is going to have higher AC, less HP, and deal a fair amount of DPS thanks to kensai and weapon specialization feats.

So here's my question:
If my aim is a brawler focusing on THF and absolute monstrosity in terms of DPS am I better off re-rolling a barb or should I stick it out with my stumpy little axe swinger?

Aaxeyu
03-07-2010, 01:24 PM
If my aim is a brawler focusing on THF and absolute monstrosity in terms of DPS am I better off re-rolling a barb or should I stick it out with my stumpy little axe swinger?

If "absolute monstrosity in terms of DPS" is your goal you shouldn't be THF in the first place (not until you get epic SoS anyways).
TWF fighter or paladin is the best choice for what you are trying to achive.

Atoro87
03-07-2010, 01:39 PM
If "absolute monstrosity in terms of DPS" is your goal you shouldn't be THF in the first place (not until you get epic SoS anyways).
TWF fighter or paladin is the best choice for what you are trying to achive.

SoS? And is TWF worth the hit you'll take in accuracy? What race and weapon spec? I'm new to the land of the melee, I normally rogue it up in every game. I'm looking to be an effective teamplayer later on by focusing on raw stopping power. Any help concerning ideal builds and concepts would be welcome as I'm used to sneaking and back stabbing not running at the front of the pack.

sly_1
03-07-2010, 01:44 PM
SoS:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Items/Weapons/SwordofShadow.jpg

Epic SoS:

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/jgould2005/DDO/Unlimited/Items/Weapons/EpicSwordofShadow.jpg

2wf and ab: you might have minor ab issues in the beginning but by endgame none of that will matter. You can always use a 2 hander or sword and board if you need the little +2 ab.

Personally, I'd say if you are new to DDO, stick with 2hf. To actually deal a lot of damage as a 2wf build you need to spend vastly more time grinding endgame loot and running shroud 60+ times. Lot easier to get established with 2hf, learn the lay of the land, then make a 2wf once you know what the grind will be like. Plus, 2hf dps is fine. fewer blows but more dmg per blow and massive crits.

A proper 2wf build is pretty large project to get the dps up there, once you consider all the things you need to deal large dps. Pallies have 1 edge in that they can use holy sword to get by until they have greensteel.

Cedwin
03-07-2010, 01:44 PM
If you just started playing, you'll be better off with THF.

They are much easier to play, and easier to get weapons for.

PS. TWF vs THF is a long standing debate, some say TWF is better, some say THF is better. Try them both and judge for yourself.

Shade
03-07-2010, 01:48 PM
THF is a great choice.
TWF only has a extremely minor single target dps advantage with khopehs.. Which when dualwielded vs a Dwarf with Greataxe+enhancement, nets you a -6 (4 with feats) penalt yto attack.

That penalty will severely kill your DPS until you are fully tricked out with the best gear, and evne then, you'll still have some trouble vs the toughest endgame content (epic)

Epic weapons or not, THF is superior DPS in DDO.. As this is not a single target game, fight more then 1 monster at a time and you'll always be doing more damage, even with lesser weapons.

Don't mind aaxyui or his other 10 forum accounts. He plays something like 12 TWF melee and has some kind of vendetta againt THF so is extremely biased.

I don't play fighters, but I play identical TWF and THF Barbarians and for them, THF is superior all around.. Fighters get less strength and thus are more balanced towards both styles.

Shade
03-07-2010, 01:50 PM
If you just started playing, you'll be better off with THF.

They are much easier to play, and easier to get weapons for.


QFT.

Later on especially when you start crafting weapons.. Putting together 2 will take you ages.. While 1 is not nearly as bad.

Aaxeyu
03-07-2010, 01:54 PM
If you just started playing, you'll be better off with THF.

They are much easier to play, and easier to get weapons for.

PS. TWF vs THF is a long standing debate, some say TWF is better, some say THF is better. Try them both and judge for yourself.

Why is THF easier to play?

Atoro87
03-07-2010, 01:57 PM
Alright I'm going to stick to THF now buttttttt....Should I stick with a Fighter or Barb in terms of DPS? And Sword or Axe of the great variety?

Right now I'm wearing full plate and I'm speced for the great axe. Should I stick it out and go for weapon specializations thanks to my dwarfs racials or is the sword better?

Do the fighters extra feats balance out rage and it's complements? Does the extra AC offset the extra HP? thanks guys lets keep it going!

Aaxeyu
03-07-2010, 02:06 PM
Alright I'm going to stick to THF now buttttttt....Should I stick with a Fighter or Barb in terms of DPS? And Sword or Axe of the great variety?

Right now I'm wearing pull plate and I'm speced for the great axe. Should I stick it out and go for weapon specializations thanks to my dwarfs racials or is the sword better?

Do the fighters extra feats balance out rage and it's complements? Does the extra AC offset the extra HP?

Going THF is a mistake, trust me. It's in no way easier to play. To actually compete with TWF as THF you need to achive perfect twitch skills, otherwise you will be way behind. The twitching also kills off the to hit bonuses, as you will most likely get -4 tohti on most yuor attacks, and never get the progressional +5/+10 to hit from the attack chain.

If grinding for weapons is a problem, just make a paladin. They get the holy sword spell which allows you to make free +5 holy burst metaline of pure good weapons of almost any kind.

But if you really want to shoot yourself in the foot and make a THF, then make it a barb.

Aaxeyu
03-07-2010, 02:16 PM
THF is a great choice.
TWF only has a extremely minor single target dps advantage with khopehs.. Which when dualwielded vs a Dwarf with Greataxe+enhancement, nets you a -6 (4 with feats) penalt yto attack.

That penalty will severely kill your DPS until you are fully tricked out with the best gear, and evne then, you'll still have some trouble vs the toughest endgame content (epic)

Epic weapons or not, THF is superior DPS in DDO.. As this is not a single target game, fight more then 1 monster at a time and you'll always be doing more damage, even with lesser weapons.

Don't mind aaxyui or his other 10 forum accounts. He plays something like 12 TWF melee and has some kind of vendetta againt THF so is extremely biased.

I don't play fighters, but I play identical TWF and THF Barbarians and for them, THF is superior all around.. Fighters get less strength and thus are more balanced towards both styles.

I have TWF characters and THF characters. I have paladins, fighters and barbs. I can back up all my claims with math.
I'm not the one with a bias.

Atoro87
03-07-2010, 02:21 PM
I have TWF characters and THF characters. I have paladins, fighters and barbs. I can back up all my claims with math.
I'm not the one with a bias.

Thanks for your input, but I'd like to keep this on topic as opposed to getting into a ****ing match, if you can post some number crunchs if ya got 'em that'd be pretty awesome though.

sly_1
03-07-2010, 03:28 PM
Even if someone can show mathematically that 2wf does an average of x amt more dmge over a period of time, it won't change the fact that you need 2 high end weapons to deal solid dps with 2wf vs 1 high end weapon for 2hf. Also, 2wf is more stat intensive than 2hf.

So ultimately the question becomes a 2 parter: how much dps do you *need* to do? and how hard are you willing to grind for it?

Whichever deals the most damage is, imo, irrelevant. both deal enough damage that nobody cares ingame. It's not like people in high end raids or epic quests are screening players based on if they have 2wf or 2hf. Most epic groups are gonna want you to have Tier 3 greensteel or better weapons but beyond that no one gives a flying care if its 2hf or 2wf. In raids all ppl care about is you have a weapon that will bypass the dr of the big bad at the end.

So again, as a new player, why take the harder, longer path? go 2hf, get established, save up a few hundred thousand plat and *then* make that 2wf build once you have 32 point unlocked etc and can actually make a better 2wf in the 1st place!

Zuberg
03-07-2010, 04:51 PM
The fighter is the best :)

tihocan
03-07-2010, 08:51 PM
Whichever deals the most damage is, imo, irrelevant. both deal enough damage that nobody cares ingame.
I totally agree with this. Both work just great and you should just play whichever you enjoy best, not the one somebody else told you was better. Depending on the situation and playstyle, you can have either TWF > THF or THF > TWF anyways. In the end the biggest factors are who's behinnd the controller and what kind of gear you have.

Regarding Fighter vs Barb, they can both deal similar DPS in "optimal" conditions, more than enough to make a party happy. Barbarian will be able to deal max DPS for a longer period of time (because rage duration > power surge & haste boost durations), though once you run out of rage, you fall back quite a bit behind the Fighter (luckily this almost never happens). Fighter is a bit more self-sufficient (because a raging Barb can't use some pots, and with the FB's frenzies, is hurting himself while hitting stuff, thus requiring more healing). Also, Fighter has potential to reach higher to-hit, which rarely matters although it may become more important in future end-game content. Finally, the fighter has more freedom in the choice of feats, while a typical THF barb has only one feat he can customize.

In the end, if you're looking to get great DPS, Fighter is fine. Barb is fine too. What will make the difference is how you play and how much you grind for top gear.

Atoro87
03-07-2010, 09:01 PM
Thanks tihocan, sound advice as always!
Well to remedy my dilema I took the high road and rolled a barb on Thelanis to find out for myself. I thik in the long run my dwarf might end up as my favorite but since it seems like this game can be pretty subjective I think the only way to find out is to play them both for a bit.

Thanks everybody.

abull74
03-07-2010, 09:29 PM
To answer the OP's question...the AC doesnt matter....you are using TH weapons.....you wil not have AC so just concentrate on getting the highest DPS you can.

Keep the great axes and take the dwarf enhancements to boost dps with them.
You will need lots of pots though, as the healers will run out of spell points trying to keep you healed. Its always good to heal yourself in between fights to help out your healer.


I AM THE FPOON!!!

MrWizard
03-08-2010, 12:38 AM
go with your fighter and keep going with him/her.

roll up a barb too.

Enjoy the ride.

Fighter has many feats and stuff to make it fun to try out things....thus easier to learn.
A barb is more limited in feats and a very wide selection of confusing enhancements for a new comer.

Do both. Enjoy both.

Feel which is best for you and just enjoy your first toon..